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-   -   PA possibly moving to CA, SF Bay Area. (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=651738)

pa_carbon15 12-02-2012 7:24 PM

PA possibly moving to CA, SF Bay Area.
 
Hey everyone. My name is Lars, I currently live in North Eastern, PA and might very well be moving to CA in Jan. 2013 for work. I own a Bushmaster Carbon 15 rifle. We have pretty lax firearm laws in PA. I have been researching the CA laws regarding ar-15 rifles. I searched this site and a few others and I even read the flow chart. Everything seems to point me in the direction that my stock carbon 15 rifle is 'illegal' in CA, WTF?!?

From what I have deciphered, correct me if I am misunderstanding this. In order for my legal in PA Bushmaster Carbon 15 rifle to be 'legal' to possess in my residence in CA, I would only need to install a bullet button to replace the stock magazine release? Installing this changes the status of the rifle as an illegal unregistered assault weapon.

A friend of mine is a gun dealer in FL and he was telling me that I had to also lose the pistol grip.

I can deal with only having 10 round magazines or using a 10/30 magazine if I wanted it to 'look like' it has a 30 round mag attached.

I was also going to purchase a Taurus Judge .45 lc/.410 handgun until I found out because of the rotating cylinder and the capacity to fire the shotgun shell with a 2" barrel, this would be classified as an AW and a sawed off shot gun.

The more I learn about CA, especially the gun laws, the less I want to relocate there. Any help would be appreciated.

a1c 12-02-2012 7:38 PM

Forget the Taurus Judge.

For your AR, add a bullet button.

gunsarefun 12-02-2012 7:42 PM

What is listed as illegal in CA is a: "Bushmaster assault rifle" and "Bushmaster: XM15 (all)"

I don't know where your model in particular falls if it's in either of those two categories or not. Someone else that is familiar with Bushmaster might be able to help you better.

IF, your receiver is not considered to be on the list, than ALL you need to do is get a bullet button, or any of the other types of AR15 mag locking device, install it on the rifle so that your magazine can NOT come out of the gun without a tool to remove it. Then make sure non of your mags can hold more than 10 rounds. You should be CA legal as far as I know.

Siberian23 12-02-2012 7:49 PM

If you lower is not on the illegal list then add a bullet button, the pistol grip is allowed if you have a bullet button. Also, disassemble your mags prior to coming in to the state and don't re assemble them while you are in the state and it is fine. Yes CA gun laws are pretty horrible.

Librarian 12-02-2012 7:57 PM

And, please see the wiki -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Mo..._with_firearms

Equis 12-02-2012 8:03 PM

Also just a side note, you can't order ammo online shipped to your home if you reside in San Francisco. It is a county ordinance, also don't carry any knives longer than 3.5 inches long iirc on your person while in Berkeley.

NHP1127 12-03-2012 6:44 AM

The SF Bay area? You'll have to add a bullet button but the good news is you'll be able walk around naked in some areas...

Kristic 12-03-2012 8:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Equis (Post 9838685)
Also just a side note, you can't order ammo online shipped to your home if you reside in San Francisco. It is a county ordinance, also don't carry any knives longer than 3.5 inches long iirc on your person while in Berkeley.

You sure about that ammo ordinance in SF?
I know of multiple online vendors that will ship to SF, although it may be wishful thinking, I'd like to hope they are not breaking any of our wonderful laws.

Cadre 12-03-2012 9:53 AM

Dont do it bro we are all trying to move out gun law sucks here.

Intimid8tor 12-03-2012 10:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cadre (Post 9841578)
Dont do it bro we are all trying to move out gun law sucks here.

This. Anywhere but here. Not only for the gun laws but the state will just waste your tax payments.

Moonshine 12-03-2012 10:13 AM

The gun laws in California may suck but...

California happens to be one of the most beautiful places in the world geographically. I can drive 2 hours in one direction and relax on some of the most beautiful beaches in the world. 2 hours in another direction and I'm hitting the slopes! Throw in some cultural diversity, world class cuisine, fine arts, and $100,000/year IT jobs on top of that and you have a whole lot of great reasons to stay in Cali.

If you wanna be a hater because I enjoy Cali then feel free but your negativity won't get to me.

beeZwaxX 12-03-2012 10:17 AM

And plenty of shooting ranges as well.

I have had ammo shipped to my house, but I know the only gun store in the City cannot sell ammo.

pa_carbon15 12-03-2012 2:18 PM

Hey everyone, thank you for the responses. AFAIK the lower receiver is not the same as the Bushmaster Assault Rifle or the XM15. So adding the bullet button will be dandy in order for me to keep this rifle. If anyone else reads this an can verify for me further that would be swell.

It pretty much looks like the 3rd rifle down on this page.
http://www.bushmaster.com/firearms/carbon_15.asp

No forward assist and no ejection port cover.

Did someone say something about walking around naked?!? lol I will be living around the Redwood City area south of SF. Having a hard time finding a place to live, rents are so damn high!

Anyone know anyone that has a decent place in the area willing to rent to a single guy with two 40 lb mutts?

I have no problem taking apart my 30 round clips while I am in CA.

CA is a beautiful state, great scenery and landscape, great weather, great food, cute women. What more could a single guy ask for? Well except ****ty gun laws. I am also licensed to carry in PA. In PA we do not need a permit to open carry, but we need a permit to conceal. It only costs like 5 bucks for 5 years for the permit. I was looking into a permit for CA and some areas (if you can even get one) charge about $250-$500 a year! WTF?!?

The state is a gang of thieves writ large...

LRShooter 12-03-2012 2:28 PM

I'm curious what the job is?

American Samurai 12-03-2012 2:30 PM

Why would anyone want to move to Commiefornia? :P

I don't see myself staying here in the future.

killshot44 12-03-2012 2:41 PM

Probably because it's one of the nicest places in the country to live.....

Lots of places to shoot, huge and active shooting community, multiple 1,000 yard ranges etc. Though PA has a big shooting community itself.

Carbon15, welcome to CA and watch those out for those Peninsula girls..... ;) They're marrying kind.

Moonshine 12-03-2012 2:47 PM

Permits in California are handled at the county level but are good statewide. Some counties are shall issue others will not issue. You are definitely right about the women though, they're one of the first things I noticed when I moved here from rural Michigan! The Beach Boys weren't kidding when they said they wish they all could be California girls.

JoefromPA 12-03-2012 3:04 PM

I really like California, but I'm also really looking forward to leaving. It really is a fantastic state, geographically wise. I'm glad I got to spend as much time as I did out here. And I'll most definitely be back to visit in the future, but I'll never live here again.

It also made it a little sweeter that I don't have to pay most of the taxes, and the fact that soon I'll be able to fully load my 30 round pmags, remove my bullet button, loaded open carry and get a ccw with ease.

tdyoung1958 12-03-2012 3:06 PM

moved here from PA about a year ago, pm sent

you won't make enough $$$$$ to get a carry permit in SF

American Samurai 12-03-2012 3:06 PM

The weather is great here, but not too much else. I may move to Texas, where there are more sexy women who lick guns like in that above pic. lol

tuolumnejim 12-03-2012 3:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pa_carbon15 (Post 9843346)

It pretty much looks like the 3rd rifle down on this page.
http://www.bushmaster.com/firearms/carbon_15.asp

14.5 inch barrel? Not happening here.
And there are many more things in the PRK to make you want to run from here as fast as you can, unchecked taxes, illegals running rampant with impunity, vehicle regulations and fee's that are crippling and many more.
I was born in frisco and this State has changed so much for the worse I'm on my way out.

Jyruiz 12-03-2012 3:16 PM

I would find work somewhere else.:)

LBDamned 12-03-2012 3:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Samurai (Post 9843429)
Why would anyone want to move to Commiefornia? :P

I don't see myself staying here in the future.

same here... when I read the subject title - I thought "PA" was Primary Arms... I was going to warn against (but I think they are smart enough not to).

LBDamned 12-03-2012 3:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killshot44 (Post 9843511)
Probably because it's one of the nicest places in the country to live.....

if you like traffic, ridiculously high cost of living, crazy high taxes with a legislation that won't quit, millions of people living off the dole, shytloads of illegal immigrants with politicians that endorse them, majority residents and legislation that are anti gun... etc, etc... then I guess you could consider it the nicest :rolleyes:

I've lived here all my life (several decades)... I used to think the climate was worth staying for... not any more - my job is the only thing keeping me here - and if I could transfer I would. It's a craphole here.

Librarian 12-03-2012 4:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beeZwaxX (Post 9841769)
And plenty of shooting ranges as well.

I have had ammo shipped to my house, but I know the only gun store in the City cannot sell ammo.

Say what?

Why do you think that may be so?

pa_carbon15 12-03-2012 4:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tuolumnejim (Post 9843759)
14.5 inch barrel? Not happening here.

So it needs to be a 16" barrel then? Barrel length of 14.5" is illegal too?!? Jeebus! Does the length of the barrel include the flash suppressor as well or is it the length minus the suppressor?

Cary1911 12-03-2012 4:47 PM

16" total including flash suppressor.

mcmikeblues7 12-03-2012 5:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pa_carbon15 (Post 9844499)
So it needs to be a 16" barrel then? Barrel length of 14.5" is illegal too?!? Jeebus! Does the length of the barrel include the flash suppressor as well or is it the length minus the suppressor?

Barrel length includes suppressor. Must be permanently attached

pardou 12-03-2012 6:19 PM

for the Ar ,all you would have to do is swap out for a bullet button, and get rid of any 30 rd mags , (dont bring them into state) , also register gun to the DOJ when (IF) you move.

yep. they make it real fun to have an AR here , :/

obiwan 12-03-2012 6:24 PM

Unless you're going to make $200K at the new job, look for some where else to move. I've been here 50 years, only reason we're still here is the house is under water and can't sell. We're on a 12 month mission to stash cash for a down on another house in another state, we'll rent this one out.

sigstroker 12-04-2012 12:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killshot44 (Post 9843511)
Probably because it's one of the nicest places in the country to live.....

Lots of places to shoot, huge and active shooting community, multiple 1,000 yard ranges etc. Though PA has a big shooting community itself.

You gotta be kidding. Lots of places to shoot? Compared to places like Arizona where you can shoot on BLM land, at ranges much longer than 1000 yards, FOR FREE, Cali is a joke.

Quote:

Carbon15, welcome to CA and watch those out for those Peninsula girls..... ;) They're marrying kind.
Ugh, Bay area girls are dogs. You don't notice if you're stuck here for too long, but go out of state for a week and you are reminded of how bad it is here.

OP, your rifle is the Carbon-15, which is a named model (and therefore banned) when Professional Ordnance made it. Bushmaster bought the rights to manufacture it. Being a different manufacturer may make it legal, but it may also not be if the model name is the same. You are probably okay, but if you can swing a trade somehow for a different model before you move, it would be safer.

American Samurai 12-04-2012 7:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigstroker (Post 9847934)


Ugh, Bay area girls are dogs. You don't notice if you're stuck here for too long, but go out of state for a week and you are reminded of how bad it is here.

lol

not-fishing 12-04-2012 8:46 AM

Quote:

Compared to places like Arizona where you can shoot on BLM land, at ranges much longer than 1000 yards, FOR FREE, Cali is a joke.
Visit Sac Valley Shooting Center

It has a 1,000 yd range with target pits and matches a couple times per month. It's just one of the 12 ranges. http://www.sacvalley.org/

I'm always amazed that the local club SPDS IDPA matches are bigger than most state matches - including Arizona.

Of course SF like Washington DC, NY or Chicago won't have any facilities to speak of. (Anti-gun Heaven, Gun Owners Hell)

pa_carbon15 12-04-2012 5:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sigstroker (Post 9847934)
OP, your rifle is the Carbon-15, which is a named model (and therefore banned) when Professional Ordnance made it. Bushmaster bought the rights to manufacture it. Being a different manufacturer may make it legal, but it may also not be if the model name is the same. You are probably okay, but if you can swing a trade somehow for a different model before you move, it would be safer.

I was curious about that, so I went to the CA DOJ website and found this.

'As of January 1, 2007, the legislature has repealed DOJ’s authority under Penal Code § 12276.1 to identify Colt AR-15 and AK-47 type “series” assault weapons by name, or to seek a judicial declaration that a firearm is identical to an assault weapon listed in Penal Code section 12276.'

By CA law definition, any make or model AR-15 is an 'assualt weapon' and is 'illegal' under CA law. But installing a bullet button and having the proper barrel, somehow makes it 'legal'. What a joke.

Then there is this little tasty bit...

'As of January 1, 2007, the legislature has authorized law enforcement to obtain a court order to preserve an assault weapon or .50 BMG rifle for law enforcement purposes “in the interests of justice” (Penal Code § 12282(c)).'

What a freakin' joke! State sanctioned theft 'in the interest of justice.'

The moral of the story is, don't steal. Unless you are the state. :facepalm:

Librarian 12-04-2012 8:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pa_carbon15 (Post 9852476)
I was curious about that, so I went to the CA DOJ website and found this.

Particularly on the topic of 'assault weapons', the DOJ appears to have political motivations to be obnoxious in correcting their documents. They further decline to perform their duty to advise local law enforcement on the topic, but fall back on statements similar to 'there are 58 district attorneys in the State and they may interpret the law ... '

The DOJ is a poor source for general information; if one is in a position to ask a specific question and get a written answer from their legal resources, then the clarity is better. The people who answer phones on their public numbers are seldom lawyers, and should not be considered reliable.

yoheezie 12-04-2012 9:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by beeZwaxX (Post 9841769)
And plenty of shooting ranges as well.

I have had ammo shipped to my house, but I know the only gun store in the City cannot sell ammo.

I just bought ammo from the only gun store in SF... They CAN sell ammo... There are certain types of ammunition they can't sell, but I bought 60 rounds of ammunition for my AR-15 from them two days ago.

Norcalkid 12-05-2012 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pa_carbon15 (Post 9844499)
So it needs to be a 16" barrel then? Barrel length of 14.5" is illegal too?!? Jeebus! Does the length of the barrel include the flash suppressor as well or is it the length minus the suppressor?

I had that Carbon 15 upper on my gun here in calif. If the break is pinned your over all length in 16in and your good. You should be able to tell by looking for spot weld marks on the side of the break. If you have to pin it get a professional to do it. I had a gunsmith redo mine and he ruined and had to replace the barrel.

zfields 12-05-2012 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by American Samurai (Post 9843689)
The weather is great here, but not too much else. I may move to Texas, where there are more sexy women who lick guns like in that above pic. lol

Truth.


Sorry not into stuck up CA women. Give me a country girl any day of the week.

Just be ready to be called a ***** by most of them if you don't have a carry permit, or haven't shot a bigger buck then them.

a1c 12-05-2012 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zfields (Post 9856967)
Truth.


Sorry not into stuck up CA women. Give me a country girl any day of the week.

Just be ready to be called a ***** by most of them if you don't have a carry permit, or haven't shot a bigger buck then them.

Plenty of country girls in California.

And California girls, stuck up? Way to generalize. The diversity of women here is one of the things I like about it. If you think all California girls are stuck up, I suspect you're the problem.

OP, make sure you check this forum on a regular basis. Best way to stay updated on those silly California gun laws.

Saym14 12-05-2012 12:19 PM

if you like PA and guns stay away for CA.


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