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-   -   Say it aint so. Winchester made in Japan? (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=651668)

DR296 12-02-2012 5:19 PM

Say it aint so. Winchester made in Japan?
 
Been looking at getting a hunting rifle. I decided I want a 30/30 Lever Action. I know there are a lot of different opinions regarding Lever Actions as hunters Vs this and that but thats what I want.
I just learned today the Model 94 is now made in Japan. So dissappointed. Guess I will look seriously at the Marlin 336.
I currently own an 80s model 94 but it is a commemorative rifle and never fired. I have it listed for sale but with this new info I probably should take it off the market for awhile

greg916 12-02-2012 5:27 PM

I'd also be very carful about getting a new marlin rifle. The new ones they are producing are absolute junk ever since remington took over the marlin factory. If you want a marlin go for an older one with a non remington serial #. The older ones are on a completely different level of quality.

tbhracing 12-02-2012 5:27 PM

Tagged

a1c 12-02-2012 5:33 PM

Is the quality really that subpar? Some of Browning's models are now made in Japan too, and the quality is there. 2012 Japan manufacturing standards are just as high as the US', if not higher.

DR296 12-02-2012 5:40 PM

If you compare my 80s version of the model 94 to what I handled today? Granted I have never fire mine but just the fit and feel. Absolutely sub-par. Part of the reason I want a Lever Action is because of the History. Made In Japan takes away from that.
I am getting a late start with Hunting as I am Middle Aged but I want to start out with a Lever Action and Iron Sites like our Fore Fathers

Bolillo 12-02-2012 5:46 PM

Yes, the rifles are made in Japan by Miroku for Winchester.

I have not seen one of the '94s first hand, but the 1885 model I looked at was a thing of beauty. And priced to match..

If you're thinking "Made in Japan" means junk, you're 20+ years behind the times.

17+1 12-02-2012 5:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolillo (Post 9837616)
If you're thinking "Made in Japan" means junk, you're 20+ years behind the times.

I've seen/handled more products with the 'Made in USA' label (Chevy, Craftsman tools, etc.) that were junk than ones with the 'Made in Japan' label. American manufacturing isn't what it used to be.

Mossy Man 12-02-2012 5:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bolillo (Post 9837616)
Yes, the rifles are made in Japan by Miroku for Winchester.

I have not seen one of the '94s first hand, but the 1885 model I looked at was a thing of beauty. And priced to match..

If you're thinking "Made in Japan" means junk, you're 20+ years behind the times.

more like 30+ years

the japanese have been making excellent products like cars and electronics for decades.

I would say my 1990 Honda Accord wipes the floor on almost any domestic car in quality, reliability, AND economy made from 1980-2005

toby 12-02-2012 5:49 PM

Retracted my reply I once dated a Japanese girl....:eek:

damon1272 12-02-2012 6:00 PM

Miroku makes a great rifle. Better than the garbage Remington has been putting out for a while.

30Cal 12-02-2012 6:00 PM

The Winchester 101 (O/U shotgun) has been made in Japan since.... well at least 40 years ago. Don't think anyone has ever said a bad thing about them.

Beetle Bailey 12-02-2012 6:06 PM

There are still a lot of pre-Remington Marlin 336 on the used market so try picking up one of those if you insist on US made.

rojocorsa 12-02-2012 6:12 PM

I'd rather get something made by Miroku instead of Freedom Group affiliated junk.

RugerNo1 12-02-2012 6:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 30Cal (Post 9837709)
The Winchester 101 (O/U shotgun) has been made in Japan since.... well at least 40 years ago. Don't think anyone has ever said a bad thing about them.

FNH Belgium makes Winchester and Browning shotguns.

rojocorsa 12-02-2012 6:16 PM

I've seen some Winchester shotguns that were made in Turkey.

The Browning Citoris are also made by Miroku.

Rorge Retson 12-02-2012 6:24 PM

I remember shortly after joining the Navy getting my first microeconomics lesson. It was the early 80's and Japan was kicking our asses in the automotive arena. I was ragging on all the "Jap" cars to my fellow sailors (I was born in Detroit and grew up steeped in Motor City Muscle). After I had gone on for 10 minutes or so, one of my shipmates asked me:

Quote:

"Rorge, let's say you make a product, a product that at one time was a good product, but now it's just total crap. Let's also say that people keep buying your product even though it's crap, just like they did when it was good. Tell me, what incentive is there for you to improve your product? Why change? Why bother?"
This guy had me. It wasn't long before I realized that I would actually be doing a disservice to my country by buying American, when American products were crap. I had a responsibility to buy the best products - Japanese or otherwise - so that those producing inferior products (at the time, Ford, Chevy, and Chrysler) would take notice, and start making products of their own worthy of purchase.

Anyway.... :rolleyes:

[/RANT]

30Cal 12-02-2012 6:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RugerNo1 (Post 9837839)
FNH Belgium makes Winchester and Browning shotguns.

1964-1987 at Mikoru.

toby 12-02-2012 6:34 PM

I dont think Winchester 101's were ever produced at the Miroku plant they all came from Kodensa,Nikko, and the newer cheaper ones are from a plant affiliated with Winchester in Portugal and the todays models come from Belgium so they say? I have heard some early came from Belgium as well but cant verify it.. I'm sure maybe some parts or some smithing could have been done in Utah?

drdarrin@sbcglobal.net 12-02-2012 6:37 PM

I own a Mikoru shotgun, purchased new in Japan in 1972 while I was stationed there. It is a quality firearm and locks up as tight today as it did the day I bought it.

To the OP's point, it and many other firearms are not made in america. But that doesn't mean they are crap either.

Ford8N 12-02-2012 6:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by damon1272 (Post 9837703)
Miroku makes a great rifle. Better than the garbage Remington has been putting out for a while.

I compared the Browning model 65 side by side to an original Winchester model 65. They were both superb craftsmanship. In fact, the Miroku wood to metal fit was better than the original Winchester. Miroku knows how to make some nice firearms.

dfletcher 12-02-2012 6:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DR296 (Post 9837459)

Been looking at getting a hunting rifle. I decided I want a 30/30 Lever Action. I know there are a lot of different opinions regarding Lever Actions as hunters Vs this and that but thats what I want.

I just learned today the Model 94 is now made in Japan. So dissappointed. Guess I will look seriously at the Marlin 336.

I currently own an 80s model 94 but it is a commemorative rifle and never fired. I have it listed for sale but with this new info I probably should take it off the market for awhile

I have a fair number of Japanese made Winchesters and "Marlin made" Marlins. The Japanese made Winchesters are excellent rifles and have been so for many years. I'm picking up a "made in Japan" Browning "Winchester" 52 and it's one of the nicest 22s out there.

If you aren't buying a Winchester based on quality I'd say that concern is misplaced. Not buying a Japanese Winchester based on quality but instead picking up a newly made Marlin is like turning down a date with Halle Berry asserting she's ugly - then going out with Roseanne ... :facepalm:

If you're not buying to make a political statement that's a different call.

BTW, having handled lots of the new "Remlin" lever action rifles coming out of Ilion, NY I'd suggest buying an older 336. Lousy wood finish, sub-standard bluing, buggered screw heads and overall poor fitting is what I see on these new rifles. I wouldn't buy a new Marlin at half the price.

CrippledPidgeon 12-02-2012 6:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DR296 (Post 9837577)
If you compare my 80s version of the model 94 to what I handled today? Granted I have never fire mine but just the fit and feel. Absolutely sub-par. Part of the reason I want a Lever Action is because of the History. Made In Japan takes away from that.
I am getting a late start with Hunting as I am Middle Aged but I want to start out with a Lever Action and Iron Sites like our Fore Fathers

Actually, our (meaning American... not my) forefathers waged war on these shores with British Brown Bess muskets.

But as to firearm production being outsourced, I suppose that yes, it does take something away from the nostalgic value of the rifle. Does that make the quality of the rifle any worse? Of course not.

Almost everything nowadays (domestic or imported) see very little by way of hand fitting anymore. Look at the price of a Les Baer or Ed Brown in comparison to a Springfield Armory or Kimber. You're paying for that extra work.

If Miroku (or Winchester) were to put that much work into each one of their rifles, you'd be looking at similar pricing for their rifles.

Quote:

Originally Posted by RugerNo1 (Post 9837839)
FNH Belgium makes Winchester and Browning shotguns.

Absolutely. FNH make's Winchester's autos, the pumps are made in Turkey, and their O/Us are/were made by Miroku. Their rifles are also made in both Turkey and Japan. I don't know what Winchester actually manufactures anymore.

If the OP wants something made by Winchester in the U.S., he's got to be looking at something vintage.

Jeff213 12-02-2012 6:54 PM

I have a Weatherby Vanguard that is made at the Howa plant in Japan, and it will shoot a clover leaf at 100 yards off a rest. Very well made rifle.

I personally have no problem buying Japanese made firearms

Ninety 12-02-2012 6:54 PM

Actually just shot a 1943 marlin 30/30 lever action yesterday... What a ton of fun... 80 yards and hitting 6" Gong... Shoulder is a little bruised but what a blast.:D

RugerNo1 12-02-2012 7:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrippledPidgeon (Post 9838122)
... their O/Us are/were made by Miroku. Their rifles are also made in both Turkey and Japan.

My Dad's and Brother's Winchester 101s say "Made in Belgium by Fabrique National Herstal" on the barrels.

http://www.winchesterguns.com/librar...ail.asp?id=116

I also understand that FNH USA makes new Model 70s.

a1c 12-02-2012 7:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrippledPidgeon (Post 9838122)
Actually, our (meaning American... not my) forefathers waged war on these shores with British Brown Bess muskets.

And French :) Lots of those on both sides of the Civil War too.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CrippledPidgeon (Post 9838122)
But as to firearm production being outsourced, I suppose that yes, it does take something away from the nostalgic value of the rifle. Does that make the quality of the rifle any worse? Of course not.

Almost everything nowadays (domestic or imported) see very little by way of hand fitting anymore. Look at the price of a Les Baer or Ed Brown in comparison to a Springfield Armory or Kimber. You're paying for that extra work.

If Miroku (or Winchester) were to put that much work into each one of their rifles, you'd be looking at similar pricing for their rifles.

Absolutely. FNH make's Winchester's autos, the pumps are made in Turkey, and their O/Us are/were made by Miroku. Their rifles are also made in both Turkey and Japan. I don't know what Winchester actually manufactures anymore.

If the OP wants something made by Winchester in the U.S., he's got to be looking at something vintage.

Exactly. I understand the nostalgia factor, and in that case, look at older firearms. But quality-wise, there is nothing wrong with Miroku-made firearms.

Equis 12-02-2012 7:23 PM

I thought the Japanese were obsessed with craftsmanship, you know Samurai swords, and what not.

gibt 12-02-2012 7:27 PM

Henry makes a nice rifle.

http://henryrepeating.com/rifle-3030.cfm

fusionstar 12-02-2012 7:34 PM

cool, didnt know japan made weapons after the war..

GMG 12-02-2012 7:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DR296 (Post 9837459)
Been looking at getting a hunting rifle. I decided I want a 30/30 Lever Action. I know there are a lot of different opinions regarding Lever Actions as hunters Vs this and that but thats what I want.
I just learned today the Model 94 is now made in Japan. So dissappointed. Guess I will look seriously at the Marlin 336.
I currently own an 80s model 94 but it is a commemorative rifle and never fired. I have it listed for sale but with this new info I probably should take it off the market for awhile

They have been making them in Japan for a number of years, it's nothing new.;)

If you want a rear Winchester look for one built prior to 1964.

XVIga_Rob 12-02-2012 7:50 PM

I own 2 Browning rifles (86' A-Bolt & 2010 X-Bolt) that were both made in Miroku, and are exceptional! They both sport Leupold glass ;)

R.Mac 12-02-2012 7:53 PM

At least it doesn't say made in Phillipines, Croatia, or CHINA thank God!

elSquid 12-02-2012 8:06 PM

http://www.browning.com/customerserv...tail.asp?id=90

Brownings made in...
Japan
Citori, Cynergy, BLR Lightweight, BLR Lightweight '81, A-Bolt II, X-Bolt, BT-99, BL-22 Rifle, Auto-22 Rifle, T-Bolt, BPS (all), and Gold 10 ga. (production for these firearms have been at the Miroku factory in Japan starting with the BT-99 in the late 1960s. In 1970 the over and under Citori (made by Miroku) would gradually replace John M. Browning’s Superposed model as the the key product in the Browning line. In about 1973 the Browning Pump Shotgun (BPS) began production at the Miroku factory, and in 1976 the legendary Auto-5 shotgun would move from Belgium factories to Miroku, in Japan. The others followed as they were introduced.
I have a Miroku ABolt and a Miroku Winchester; both are nicely made.

-- Michael

ElToro 12-02-2012 8:15 PM

HOWA and SKB are very good quality... i have owned both. i wouldnt hesitate to own either again.

paul0660 12-02-2012 8:22 PM

Quote:

2012 Japan manufacturing standards are just as high as the US', if not higher.
Higher, imo.

Quote:

At least it doesn't say made in Phillipines, Croatia, or CHINA thank God!
Do you have something from those countries?

Goop 12-02-2012 8:28 PM

Henry is an american classic that has been around since the days of the old west. As long as you dont mind the loading system being from under the tube rather than a loading gate i would go with that.

You could get a used Marlin marlin from a few years back, the new ones from Remington have gotten mixed reviews. Some swear they are worse, others swear they are the same.

nick 12-02-2012 8:37 PM

When did Marlin manufacture move to Remington?

CrippledPidgeon 12-02-2012 8:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Goop (Post 9838868)
Henry is an american classic that has been around since the days of the old west. As long as you dont mind the loading system being from under the tube rather than a loading gate i would go with that.

You could get a used Marlin marlin from a few years back, the new ones from Remington have gotten mixed reviews. Some swear they are worse, others swear they are the same.

The Henry rifles are made in the states, but they're not the same as the original 1860 Henry Rifle. They look somewhat similar, but operate very differently. Pretty much the only company making proper Henry reproductions is Uberti.

Hurstolds 12-02-2012 8:45 PM

...

InkHammer 12-02-2012 9:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by R.Mac (Post 9838615)
At least it doesn't say made in Phillipines, Croatia, or CHINA thank God!

Ummmm, you do know that the Springfield XD pistols are made in Croatia?


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