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-   -   What's soft tip ak ammo? (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=651007)

taiwon 12-01-2012 1:36 AM

What's soft tip ak ammo?
 
:confused: what's soft tip ak ammo and why would one want to choose this type of ammo over fmj or hollowpoints? please school me.

nothing4u 12-01-2012 1:43 AM

For hunting.

AlliedArmory 12-01-2012 1:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nothing4u (Post 9827296)
For hunting.


Yup. Soft tips are designed for hunting.

DasBoost 12-01-2012 2:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taiwon (Post 9827289)
:confused: what's soft tip ak ammo and why would one want to choose this type of ammo over fmj or hollowpoints? please school me.

SP ammo in AK calibers is just that, normal soft points for hunting; as for use, it's for when you can't separate your desire for taking game and your lust for Soviet-bloc hardware. :D

Chaos47 12-01-2012 2:45 AM

http://www.underwoodammo.com/images/...il/1921751.jpg

Notice the bare lead tip?

DirtyLaundry 12-01-2012 3:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taiwon (Post 9827289)
:confused: what's soft tip ak ammo and why would one want to choose this type of ammo over fmj or hollowpoints? please school me.

Soft tips provide better terminal performance than your typical FMJ round due to expansion. Useful for hunting and for two legged prey.:)

Milsurps 12-01-2012 4:45 AM

SP is also fun watching it go Splat in a small lead cloud on steel at 200-300 Yd. :D

TacticalPlinker 12-01-2012 4:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DirtyLaundry (Post 9827401)
Soft tips provide better terminal performance than your typical FMJ round due to expansion. Useful for hunting and for two legged prey.:)

Would a SP be better for defense (human beings) if using an AK for that purpose? How far do they penetrate vs. FMJ or HP?

Or would HP be a better option in this case vs. SP?

oldyeller 12-01-2012 5:02 PM

Those steel jacketed soft points don't expand much in my experience. go with winchester or privi with copper jackets for hunting.. YMMV

Freagan 12-01-2012 10:23 PM

Look into the 8M3 round, it's supposed to be pretty good for hunting.

DasBoost 12-02-2012 1:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freagan (Post 9832999)
Look into the 8M3 round, it's supposed to be pretty good for hunting.

I think that's used in Tulammo's 124gr JHP according to some on the forum; most people say it comes from the Uly batches, but I've got nothing but what I've read on other forums and 300rds of it to try out.

taiwon 12-02-2012 11:25 PM

so basically they're more lethal because they expand a lot more upon contact?

zfields 12-03-2012 9:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taiwon (Post 9839899)
so basically they're more lethal because they expand a lot more upon contact?

Somewhat. The tip is designed to mushroom on impact.

Issue is, most the russian made softpoint stuff doesnt work very well. I'd check out the Corbon DPX stuff if you want a good expanding round.

zfields 12-03-2012 9:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DasBoost (Post 9833544)
I think that's used in Tulammo's 124gr JHP according to some on the forum; most people say it comes from the Uly batches, but I've got nothing but what I've read on other forums and 300rds of it to try out.

The 8m3 isnt a hollow point like the tula/uly. Its hollow cavity, but still fully jacketed IIRC.

DirtyLaundry 12-03-2012 1:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TacticalPlinker (Post 9830857)
Would a SP be better for defense (human beings) if using an AK for that purpose? How far do they penetrate vs. FMJ or HP?

Or would HP be a better option in this case vs. SP?

I have no data but I would assume a SP or HP (of equal quality) to perform similarly to each other and both to perform better in tissue trauma than a typical FMJ round out of an AK.

taiwon 12-03-2012 3:32 PM

Wow, I learn so much here lol

Vlad 11 12-03-2012 5:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcutt (Post 9827466)
SP is also fun watching it go Splat in a small lead cloud on steel at 200-300 Yd. :D

Shooting 7.62x39 soft points on gallon water jugs at 25 yds is a favorite passtime of mine.

TANK1135 12-03-2012 6:27 PM

Ammo to go has Prvi 10.28 for 20 brass case and brass jacketed.Or 49.95 for a hundred rds.

Freagan 12-03-2012 9:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zfields (Post 9841391)
The 8m3 isnt a hollow point like the tula/uly. Its hollow cavity, but still fully jacketed IIRC.

Actually he was right, the 8M3 is a hollow point round. After Tula stopped supplying Wolf Military Classic with the 8M3 bullet, they started importing it themselves. The 124gr hollowpoint ammo from Tula is supposed to have the 8M3.

http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/50...WMCULYHP_3.jpg

DasBoost 12-03-2012 11:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Freagan (Post 9846900)
Actually he was right, the 8M3 is a hollow point round. After Tula stopped supplying Wolf Military Classic with the 8M3 bullet, they started importing it themselves. The 124gr hollowpoint ammo from Tula is supposed to have the 8M3.

http://www.gunco.net/gallery/data/50...WMCULYHP_3.jpg

There was a debate going on when I was researching the 8m3 on other forums if the bullet design had changed or if the ammo manufacturer went with a different bullet. Someone, somewhere (AKFiles I think... Wish I had saved the link) had been able to trace a path of the 8m3 in the US from Wolf and another brand and then at a certain year/batch, it switched over to a different bullet and then the 8m3 reappeared in Tulammo. The way to tell with the WMC I believe is the weight, they only had 124 gr and 122 gr, but never both at the same time; not 100% on that as Tula sells both weights concurrently and I don't see why WPA/WMC wouldn't do the same.

Freagan 12-04-2012 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DasBoost (Post 9847798)
There was a debate going on when I was researching the 8m3 on other forums if the bullet design had changed or if the ammo manufacturer went with a different bullet. Someone, somewhere (AKFiles I think... Wish I had saved the link) had been able to trace a path of the 8m3 in the US from Wolf and another brand and then at a certain year/batch, it switched over to a different bullet and then the 8m3 reappeared in Tulammo. The way to tell with the WMC I believe is the weight, they only had 124 gr and 122 gr, but never both at the same time; not 100% on that as Tula sells both weights concurrently and I don't see why WPA/WMC wouldn't do the same.

The 124gr HP is the 8M3, the 122gr HP is a different bullet with different construction (mainly the cuts are superficial and not nearly as deep as needed to cause fragmentation). Right now Tula is the only company importing the 8M3 round.

Here is a e-mail from the president of Tula in regards to them carrying the 8M3 bullet in their 124gr HP offering.

Update –– I got an email from the head of Tulammo about the Tula 124 gr. HPs:

"I wanted to respond to your email, but I was waiting to receive a definitive response from Ulyanovsk before I replied. The Tulammo HP bullet you refer to below is the only bullet currently being imported into the U.S. from the Ulyanovsk factory in Russia. The “T” in Tulammo stands for The Tula Cartridge Company. The “UL” stands for The Ulyanovsk Cartridge Company. Until you asked the question, I was under the assumption that all of the 124 GR. HP bullets had the necessary cuts inside the bullet to provide a similar effect as the 8M3. I was informed today, that under their manufacturing guidelines, roughly 10% of the production could have bullets that might not have as detailed cuts as the 8M3. For your information, this is the exact same guideline that has been in place since the first Ulyanovsk production was imported into the U.S. Nothing has changed at the Ulyanovsk factory concerning this over the past twenty years of Russian imports into the U.S. I have only been involved with the two Russian factories since November of 2009. Prior to that, I owned Sellier & Bellot, USA. If I had known of the discrepancy, I would have informed Ulyanovsk that 100% of the bullets (no manufacturing process for bullets will always guarantee 100%) need to meet the criteria. Even though Ulyanovsk cannot specifically tell us the exact production requirements of the military 8M3 bullet, I was assured today that they will take the necessary steps to implement the production of any future Tulammo 124 GR. HP bullets as closely as possible to the 8M3.

Best regards,

Ed Grasso
President"

DasBoost 12-04-2012 1:20 AM

Thanks for the update Freagan; I figured that the 8m3 would have been a standard bullet used, but that email makes it sound like 1) Uly or their supplier makes more than 1 type of HP bullet or 2) they use a standard HP-type bullet and add the cuts after the fact instead of incorporating them in the first place.

EDIT: OP- Use a HP like the 124gr Tulammo instead of a East-Bloc SP. The 8m3 has a better expansion and consistency of expansion than the other Combloc HPs and SPs. Though I am interested in trying the 154gr SPs as I like the idea of a heavyweight round in an intermediate caliber.

gun toting monkeyboy 12-04-2012 10:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taiwon (Post 9839899)
so basically they're more lethal because they expand a lot more upon contact?

As the others have noted, they are supposed to be. However, while having either a hollow point or an exposed lead tip meets the letter of the law regarding expanding ammuntion for hunting, most of these 7.62 rounds use the same steel jackets as the regular FMJ rounds. That means that it doesn't normally expand all that well. I know several people that have taken game with them, and their experience is that it is almost the same as using FMJ bullets for hunting. Occasionally you may get a tear in the jacket, which will cause it to expand some, as well as cutting as it passes through tissue. But this is far from uniform expansion, and is very inconsistent. If you are getting it because it is cheap range ammo, go for it. I stocked up on the HP ammo just like it years ago because it was cheap. And it is fun to shoot. But if you are actually looking at using 7.62x39 for hunting, spend the little extra cash and get either American-made soft points, or the Seller and Bellot soft points. Those all use copper-jacketed bullets that are actually designed to expand.

-Mb


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