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-   -   Info on Fish and Game checkpoints (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=649849)

problemchild 11-28-2012 12:10 PM

Info on Fish and Game checkpoints
 
Watching a show on TV now and they are asking people if they have guns in the car and if yes searching the whole car. Do you have to tell them yes if they ask? If they are covered with a tarp or in the trunk and not visible can you say no? What are your rights and what is legal and not legal?

CAHighSierra 11-28-2012 12:14 PM

Fish and game are a state agency no? You HAVE to declare any fish or game taken if they ask but Im pretty sure if its a state agency you do t have to tell them you have guns.

dunndeal 11-28-2012 12:16 PM

My understanding is if they have probable cause to believe you were hunting then they are allowed to search to certify that any game you have was legally taken.

Abalone divers have their cars/boats searched regularly by F&G wardens when driving away from areas where abalone diving is common.

Additionally the US Coast Guard has the power to conduct a warrantless search of your boat anytime they want to board your craft.

paul0660 11-28-2012 12:16 PM

You have a right to ask them to prove their authority, as usual.

bulgron 11-28-2012 12:40 PM

The question still hasn't been answered. Do I have to say 'yes' if F&G asks me if I have a gun in my car (and I in fact have a gun in the car)?

speedrrracer 11-28-2012 12:56 PM

I don't know if you are required to tell them about your guns, but it's against the law to prevent them from searching anywhere they please.

"...Prohibit a warden from inspection of any boat, market or receptacle where fish may be
found (FGC 1006)."

taperxz 11-28-2012 1:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulgron (Post 9808064)
The question still hasn't been answered. Do I have to say 'yes' if F&G asks me if I have a gun in my car (and I in fact have a gun in the car)?

You have the right to remain silent. If they inspect a car/truck and find that there is no evidence of hunting activity, that would be a violation of search and seizure. They can search hunters and fisherman during, before and after the sport take of game. They can not use these powers to search for any other reasons unless PC has been established for other violations of the law.

Meplat 11-28-2012 1:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulgron (Post 9808064)
The question still hasn't been answered. Do I have to say 'yes' if F&G asks me if I have a gun in my car (and I in fact have a gun in the car)?

No! You cannot be compelled to say anything. You cannot lie to a federal officer, but you do not have to say anything at all. You can lie to state and local LE all you want, and they can and will lie to you.

tenpercentfirearms 11-28-2012 2:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taperxz (Post 9808226)
If they inspect a car/truck and find that there is no evidence of hunting activity, that would be a violation of search and seizure.

I don't think this is quite right. They would need evidence of hunting activity before they could search. They don't get to gamble and search hoping to find something. If they searched and found something, but had no probably cause for a search, that evidence would be thrown out.

Now I am sure they can make up all sorts of reasons for a search. So if they ask you if you have any firearms in the vehicle, you have a right to remain silent. Or you can always ask questions.

"Do you have any firearms in the vehicle?"

You respond, "Why do you ask officer?"

"I am conducting a hunting license check."

You reply, "Oh."

Then he stares at you and asks again, "Do you have any firearms in the vehicle?"

"Why do you ask officer?"

Or mix it up and simply ask, "Am I free to go?"

If he asks you to step out of the vehicle, ask if you are free to go. If he demands you get out the vehicle, inform him you do not consent to searches and you have nothing left to say until you speak to your lawyer, then ask if you are free to go again.

Only do this is you feel like flexing your rights and have the time.

You are under zero legal obligation to ever answer any law enforcement officer's questions. None. Experts recommend you do not lie to an officer. Simply don't answer the question or invoke your right to remain silent.

Here shortly someone will recomend you answer with "I have no illegal firearms in the vehicle." Personally I think that is a poor idea. I wouldn't even give them that and it just makes you seem like you are some smart guy that pretty much left an opening to search for legal weapons for an E check or some such nonsense. Give them nothing.

taperxz 11-28-2012 2:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tenpercentfirearms (Post 9808671)
I don't think this is quite right. They would need evidence of hunting activity before they could search. They don't get to gamble and search hoping to find something. If they searched and found something, but had no probably cause for a search, that evidence would be thrown out.

Now I am sure they can make up all sorts of reasons for a search. So if they ask you if you have any firearms in the vehicle, you have a right to remain silent. Or you can always ask questions.

"Do you have any firearms in the vehicle?"

You respond, "Why do you ask officer?"

"I am conducting a hunting license check."

You reply, "Oh."

Then he stares at you and asks again, "Do you have any firearms in the vehicle?"

"Why do you ask officer?"

Or mix it up and simply ask, "Am I free to go?"

If he asks you to step out of the vehicle, ask if you are free to go. If he demands you get out the vehicle, inform him you do not consent to searches and you have nothing left to say until you speak to your lawyer, then ask if you are free to go again.

Only do this is you feel like flexing your rights and have the time.

You are under zero legal obligation to ever answer any law enforcement officer's questions. None. Experts recommend you do not lie to an officer. Simply don't answer the question or invoke your right to remain silent.

Here shortly someone will recomend you answer with "I have no illegal firearms in the vehicle." Personally I think that is a poor idea. I wouldn't even give them that and it just makes you seem like you are some smart guy that pretty much left an opening to search for legal weapons for an E check or some such nonsense. Give them nothing.

This is pretty much what i meant. There "special" searches are limited to F&G stuff only. If they went and searched a vehicle for no reason that would be against the law. They need to have reasonable PC that the people were in fact hunting or fishing or going to and from.

If their probable cause to search showed no signs of fishing or hunting and something else was found that was illegal, i suspect the evidence would probably not be admissable in court due to an illegal search and seizure.

becxltoo984 11-28-2012 3:10 PM

Let me Guess must have been an episodes of wild Justice . They make every California hunter / fisherman look like some total Douche . I cant Stand stand show !

By far CA fish And Game are the worst informed LEO"S in the state .

Glock31B 11-28-2012 3:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by becxltoo984 (Post 9809005)
Let me Guess must have been an episodes of wild Justice . They make every California hunter / fisherman look like some total Douche . I cant Stand stand show !

By far CA fish And Game are the worst informed LEO"S in the state .



They are up there.

woodsman 11-28-2012 4:32 PM

I have been stopped by them near Utica/Spicer. They stop anyone that has been fishing and they always ask about weapons.

JimWest 11-28-2012 4:43 PM

Woodsman- How did you respond to them, if I may ask?

Skidmark 11-28-2012 6:11 PM

CA DFG has my highest respect, for a tough job done well.

I only wish they were even more effective at taking down the poachers.

problemchild 11-28-2012 6:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by becxltoo984 (Post 9809005)
Let me Guess must have been an episodes of wild Justice . They make every California hunter / fisherman look like some total Douche . I cant Stand stand show !

By far CA fish And Game are the worst informed LEO"S in the state .

Yeah the show sucks that way. Just tonight they walked into a house with deer heads mounted on the wall and commented "he sure has been killing a lot of animals". What kind of crap is that?

OK so basically I can say "In have NO guns" in the car or "I have nothing illegal in the car" or ask a stupid question or keep quiet.

Im not breaking any laws and dont feel like having my car strip searched for no good reason.

Oh and EVERY HOUSE THEY RAIDED came from pictures off some Cal website forum that the idiot poachers posted online. Be careful what you post and dont break the law.

dunndeal 11-28-2012 7:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Skidmark (Post 9810170)
CA DFG has my highest respect, for a tough job done well.

I only wish they were even more effective at taking down the poachers.

QFT. They are sworn officers issued a sidearm. When working on the hunting side (versus fish) most of those you encounter are armed with rifles and probably large caliber pistols.

Odds are not in their favor and they paid about 1/3rd as much as a CHP officer.

Stewdabaker23 11-28-2012 7:45 PM

And with budget cuts they are stretched extremely thin across the state. There are only like 3 wardens that cover from Fresno area to Sacramento area.

kakinuma-kun 11-28-2012 8:27 PM

You can look at this string HERE.

I know there have been others...

Carnivore 11-28-2012 9:09 PM

First make sure you don't have anything illegal in the car.

If you have been hunting then you need to tell them you have and show them any game taken (yes I know covered above) obviously you will need to let them know you have a fire arm then.

If not hunting then if ANYONE asks if you have a gun in the car repeat the following...."I have nothing illegal in the vehicle, no you may not search, am I free to go?" Don't answer any of their stupid questions and don't get caught up in their "if you have nothing to hide" crap either. No need to lie when you can tell the truth. A firearm in your car isn't illegal. I throw in a "let me know when I am free to go" too.

As for DFG I deal with these Dbags all the time fishing out at the islands. Other then one guy that is really cool in Ventura the rest aren't worth the pay they draw.

BTW most of them aren't bright enough to make it onto the CHP that is why they don't make as much.

Loubot10 11-28-2012 10:11 PM

They have a lot of stretch when it comes to "reasonable" and I've seen people detained until a CHP arrived to issue non-F&G tickets.

The first question is always have you been hunting? And I've never been stopped when I wasn't hunting, so the question of weaponry is assumed. I've got no hate for them.

The only LE job harder than cornering illegals with weapons is cornering anti-establishment legals with weapons. IMO

donw 11-29-2012 6:41 AM

so...lemme see if this is correct:

i have my legal firearm(s) secured, unloaded, in a locked carrying case, in the back (trunk/bed of truck) covered up (out of visual sight) i am going to, coming from or passing through a legal hunting area and i'm stopped by DFG game warden.

he asks: "Have you been hunting?"

i respond: "No, officer, i have not been hunting"*

he asks: "Are there any guns in the vehicle?"

i respond: "It is a very nice day today officer, am i i free to leave?"

*there is, normally, no way to prove you have been hunting unless you have game in your possession...or, you admit it...even if you do have camo clothing, bino's, rangefinders etc...most hunters i know, go to the field for a "Dress rehearsal" to test their gear, make sure their firearms are 'zeroed', binos and rangefinders are all adjusted properly.

however...if you are in a legal hunting area, and are equipped to hunt, you are considered as hunting, or have been hunting...and you'd better have a current hunting license with any appropriate tags necessary for game in season in that area.

if there are no visual indications, and no admissions, of hunting activities, from an outside, looking in, visual inspection, there is no PC.

no PC, no consent to search...

is this a correct assumption?

is this assumption correct?

SonoftheRepublic 11-29-2012 9:21 PM

Officer asks: "Do you have any weapons in the vehicle?"

Reply: "I'm sorry officer, my attorney has advised me not to answer any questions".

Officer asks: "May I search your vehicle?"

Reply: "No. I do not consent to any searches".

alfred1222 11-29-2012 10:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by donw (Post 9813016)
so...lemme see if this is correct:

i have my legal firearm(s) secured, unloaded, in a locked carrying case, in the back (trunk/bed of truck) covered up (out of visual sight) i am going to, coming from or passing through a legal hunting area and i'm stopped by DFG game warden.

he asks: "Have you been hunting?"

i respond: "No, officer, i have not been hunting"*

he asks: "Are there any guns in the vehicle?"

i respond: "It is a very nice day today officer, am i i free to leave?"

*there is, normally, no way to prove you have been hunting unless you have game in your possession...or, you admit it...even if you do have camo clothing, bino's, rangefinders etc...most hunters i know, go to the field for a "Dress rehearsal" to test their gear, make sure their firearms are 'zeroed', binos and rangefinders are all adjusted properly.

however...if you are in a legal hunting area, and are equipped to hunt, you are considered as hunting, or have been hunting...and you'd better have a current hunting license with any appropriate tags necessary for game in season in that area.

if there are no visual indications, and no admissions, of hunting activities, from an outside, looking in, visual inspection, there is no PC.

no PC, no consent to search...

is this a correct assumption?

is this assumption correct?

QFT

Kid Stanislaus 11-29-2012 10:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by paul0660 (Post 9807963)
You have a right to ask them to prove their authority, as usual.

And they have a right to laugh out loud!!;)

Kid Stanislaus 11-29-2012 10:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taperxz (Post 9808841)
This is pretty much what i meant. There "special" searches are limited to F&G stuff only. If they went and searched a vehicle for no reason that would be against the law. They need to have reasonable PC that the people were in fact hunting or fishing or going to and from.

If their probable cause to search showed no signs of fishing or hunting and something else was found that was illegal, i suspect the evidence would probably not be admissable in court due to an illegal search and seizure.

Its my understanding that if they so much as look thru the window and see a single fish hook they are authorized to search the vehicle. Game wardens have broader authority to search due to the fact that they work in isolated areas and often work alone (if that makes any sense to you, then you're brighter than I). There have been instances where regular law enforcement could not search but they called in the game wardens and they were authorized to do so. Its a dirty deal but then again, this if the PRC.:(

taperxz 11-30-2012 5:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid Stanislaus (Post 9819234)
Its my understanding that if they so much as look thru the window and see a single fish hook they are authorized to search the vehicle. Game wardens have broader authority to search due to the fact that they work in isolated areas and often work alone (if that makes any sense to you, then you're brighter than I). There have been instances where regular law enforcement could not search but they called in the game wardens and they were authorized to do so. Its a dirty deal but then again, this if the PRC.:(

Its my understanding that if LEO sees as little as a single roach.... Most of your concerns are from watching to much TV

Hunting and fishing is a sport. If you treat the wardens like you would treat referees in football, then you have an understanding of their "role" in search and seizure laws in regards to hunting and fishing,

The only difference is that they are LEO in the real world also. Their special powers extend to F&G only. "a single fish hook'? Maybe but what is anyone doing with a single fish hook on them? really

Curley Red 11-30-2012 7:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taperxz (Post 9820245)
[B]Maybe but what is anyone doing with a single fish hook on them? really

I have a single fly attached to my dashboard cover that was from a friend that passed away. So there is one example as to why someone would have a single hook.

Librarian 11-30-2012 2:21 PM

Let us stay a bit more directly on topic, please.

Gun_Owner_901 11-30-2012 9:51 PM

If your have your guns with you and you know they are legal to own and have with you, I would just say yes let him check them out and let him be on his way, if you have a gun with you and you say no, and he ends up searching your car or truck, you just lied to a fish and game warden or police or CHP depending on who pulled you over, if your not breaking the law its always better to be honest then to cause trouble, I always go point A to B when I have a firearm in my car, never any stops in between.

Doheny 12-03-2012 4:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bulgron (Post 9808064)
The question still hasn't been answered. Do I have to say 'yes' if F&G asks me if I have a gun in my car (and I in fact have a gun in the car)?

Yes you do.

F&G code section 2012 says that you need to show all licenses, tags, method of take (guns, fishing equipment, nets, etc.) as well as any catch when asked by anyone authorized to enforce the F&G code.


Quote:

F&G 2012: All licenses, tags, and the birds, mammals, fish, reptiles,
or amphibians taken or otherwise dealt with under this code, and any
device or apparatus designed to be, and capable of being, used to
take birds, mammals, fish, reptiles, or amphibians shall be exhibited
upon demand to any person authorized by the department to enforce
this code or any law relating to the protection and conservation of
birds, mammals, fish, reptiles, or amphibians.



taperxz 12-03-2012 4:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Doheny (Post 9844315)
Yes you do.

F&G code section 2012 says that you need to show all licenses, tags, method of take (guns, fishing equipment, nets, etc.) as well as any catch when asked by anyone authorized to enforce the F&G code.

NO YOU DON't!! F&G codes only apply to those who are participating in the activity. F&G codes do not apply to those not hunting or fishing. If you are driving home from a trip either hunting or fishing, You don't have to tell them squat! They must have proof or knowledge of your activity in order to continue their shake down powers. Not to mention, since when was the "right to remain silent" ever made illegal??

Dirty dirt 12-03-2012 5:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Meplat (Post 9808281)
No! You cannot be compelled to say anything. You cannot lie to a federal officer, but you do not have to say anything at all. You can lie to state and local LE all you want, and they can and will lie to you.

I would read CA veh section 31 and penal code section 148.9 before telling lies

scarry scarney 12-03-2012 5:23 PM

You might also want to check out 12031 para (e)

12031(e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.

taperxz 12-03-2012 5:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scarry scarney (Post 9844877)
You might also want to check out 12031 para (e)

12031(e) In order to determine whether or not a firearm is loaded for the purpose of enforcing this section, peace officers are authorized to examine any firearm carried by anyone on his or her person or in a vehicle while in any public place or on any public street in an incorporated city or prohibited area of an unincorporated territory. Refusal to allow a peace officer to inspect a firearm pursuant to this section constitutes probable cause for arrest for violation of this section.

This is wrong also! They need to see the firearm in order to inspect it. If its in a locked case or a place they can't see it, you do not have to tell the LEO that the gun is in fact in the vehicle. Whether you are carrying legal or illegal.

taperxz 12-03-2012 5:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty dirt (Post 9844698)
I would read CA veh section 31 and penal code section 148.9 before telling lies

Since when do firearms have anything to do with the VC?

Dirty dirt 12-03-2012 7:31 PM

Delete

taperxz 12-03-2012 7:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dirty dirt (Post 9845962)
I was pointing out that there are potential punitive consequences for lying "all you want" to local and state leo's. And I agree you dont have to provide information. A question is just that a questionA local warden here used to run reg checks then run the RO and do a weapons records check. If it came back with registered weapons he would pull the driver over for an alleged vehicle code violation or other PC .
And ask if weapons were on board. This was in rural settings. Dont know if it happens in urban areas.

Wardens and all LEO can lie to you, If you don't know your rights then you will have to do as they ask. Where i live, its about as rural as you can get in this state. I suppose you warden was checking on registration for rifles also??? FYI there is no such thing.

Dirty dirt 12-03-2012 8:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taperxz (Post 9846231)
Wardens and all LEO can lie to you, If you don't know your rights then you will have to do as they ask. Where i live, its about as rural as you can get in this state. I suppose you warden was checking on registration for rifles also??? FYI there is no such thing.

Delete

weezil_boi 12-03-2012 8:57 PM

If Im not hunting/fishing, and since my guns are legit/properly stowed... then:
1. If hes Federal = I wont lie.
2. If hes not federal = Id just lie since its none of his damn business, its not illegal (or wrong) in that case since they dont need to know.

If they had a good reason to suspect I was hunting/fishing, then they could already search and they had no reason to ask me about guns in the first place... thats just rude ;)


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