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-   -   corrosive ammo (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=642277)

highender 11-09-2012 4:29 PM

corrosive ammo
 
Hello : Dumb question:
I bought some ammo that is corrosiive, and I heard that some people use Windex with ammonia to clean the barrel/bore, then finish regular cleaning and oiling procedure. Some even advocate doing this at the range .

Is it really necessary to clean the bore at the range, after shooting?

What is the best solvent or cleaner to use to get rid of the acids ? Is ammonia windex the best ? Any other suggestions ?

Any need to clean the action ?

Thanks in advance.

Rem222 11-09-2012 4:52 PM

I run a wet patch of windex down the bore before leaving the range. At home hot water down the barrel and then clean as usual. I also clean the bolt face.

My shooting friend waits until getting home to clean his rifle and it's fine.

Mosin Nagants by the way...

rsrocket1 11-09-2012 5:13 PM

There are no acids. Potassium Chlorate is in the primer rather than Lead Styphnate. The Potassium salts attract water which will rust the barrel/action in time.

All you need to do is run water through the barrel and action if it is an AK, or just down the barrel if it is a 91/30. Wipe it down, spray something like Rem Oil over it and clean it when you get home. The Potassium salts are water soluble and will rinse out.

Windex in unnecessary, as Rem222 said, you won't get a rusty barrel if you simply clean it when you get home rather than do the rinse job at the range.

highender 11-09-2012 11:18 PM

thanks.... got it.

VegasND 11-10-2012 7:15 AM

I never use Windex or other glass cleaners.

I never clean at the range; that night, or even the next day if you live in a dry climate, is fine.

The paranoia over corrosive ammo continues to amaze me. When I was a kid surplus corrosive ammo was everywhere and the WWII/Korean War Vets who taught kids to shoot never stressed over cleaning.

Enjoy shooting, then clean and properly lubricate.

Gio 11-10-2012 7:53 AM

If there is no water in sight other than good drinking water, you can urinate down the barrel and on the parts to get rid of the salts ;)

JHermsen 11-10-2012 8:33 AM

When you get home pour a kettle of boiling water down the muzzle, clean and lube as normal, done.

highender 11-10-2012 12:55 PM

OK,, so I pour water , hot, down the muzzle, which gets the action and all other parts wet..... , then disassemble and dry , then clean and lube, right ?

I have a Howa 1500 .308 rifle with sights. What do you all think ??

stand125 11-10-2012 7:01 PM

After I get home from the range i spray some windex down the end of the barrel and run a few patches down and I spray the bolt down and wipe it off. I then oil the barrel and bolt and call it good. I agree that in the summer it is not as critical to clean the same day but winter time in Nor Cal the rust will show up pretty quick if not cleaned and oiled. I could not tell you the last time I stripped my Mosin down and I've been shooting my 1938 Tula for about 5 years.

Jack1939 11-10-2012 9:21 PM

hoppes #9

hylander 11-10-2012 9:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by highender (Post 9697616)
OK,, so I pour water , hot, down the muzzle, which gets the action and all other parts wet..... , then disassemble and dry , then clean and lube, right ?

I have a Howa 1500 .308 rifle with sights. What do you all think ??

Short answer, No.
Long answer: Contrary to what VegasND said, corrosive ammo is just that, corrosive. All those Mosins and other milsurps didn't just rust up and pit
all on their own.

Do not pour water all over everything.
Get a small squirt or spray bottle, like 2-4 oz. fill with plain old cold water.
Remove bolt, hold rifle with muzzle down.
Squirt water down the barrel, just an once or two and let it run out the muzzle. Lay rifle down on bench for a minute or two.
Next run a patch wet with water down the bore, then run a couple dry patches down the bore to get the water out, then clean and oil as normal.
Also wipe the bolt face off with wet water patch, dry and then oil.

VegasND 11-11-2012 5:05 AM

You're saying NOT to clean after shooting corrosive ammo?
Quote:

Originally Posted by hylander (Post 9700544)
Contrary to what VegasND said,

Where did I say otherwise?
Quote:

corrosive ammo is just that, corrosive. All those Mosins and other milsurps didn't just rust up and pit
all on their own.
...
:rolleyes:

gorblimey 11-11-2012 5:29 AM

Hot/boiling water down the bore (and gas tube, if applicable) from the chamber end, using a funnel. Clean bolt face likewise (and gas piston, if applicable). Hit with WD-40, blow everything out with air compressor, then clean as usual.

hylander 11-11-2012 12:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VegasND (Post 9701162)
You're saying NOT to clean after shooting corrosive ammo?

Where did I say otherwise?

:rolleyes:

Your original post is leading one to believe that one need not be concerned about corrosive ammo doing any damage

Quote:

The paranoia over corrosive ammo continues to amaze me. When I was a kid surplus corrosive ammo was everywhere and the WWII/Korean War Vets who taught kids to shoot never stressed over cleaning.

ostaF 11-11-2012 12:37 PM

Bring a 40 of mickeys to the range and pour it down the barrel before you leave. Clean and lube while driving home.

VegasND 11-11-2012 3:16 PM

:facepalm: In that case, rather than do as a prudent person would and just maintain your equipment: I suggest you run in circles-scream and shout-:willy_nilly:
Quote:

Originally Posted by hylander (Post 9703058)
Your original post is leading one to believe that one need not be concerned about corrosive ammo doing any damage


Southpaw45 11-11-2012 5:54 PM

I ran corrosive ammo through my Mauser and all I did is clean it a usual when I got back from the range with Bore Tech Eliminator. A bore cleaner that I use on all my rifles with copper bullets. No problems! Just get on your cleaning quickly.....

Cowboy T 11-11-2012 6:19 PM

The corrosive part is actually the primer residue. The reason it's corrosive is that after the primer goes off, potassium chloride is left in the barrel. What's potassium chloride? It's a type of salt! What does salt do to iron (and thus steel) in the presence of any moisture? It catalyzes an oxidation/reduction reaction...better known as corrosing, or rusting.

Fortunately, salts are easy to deal with. Like its brother sodium chloride (table salt), potassium chloride dissolves in water very easily. So, just flush out your bore with some water, along with anywhere else the primer residue would normally go (e. g. gas tubes in certain semi-autos, and the piston face). Takes maybe a minute or two. Then, just clean your firearm as normal.

For bolt guns like Mosins and Mausers, it's even simpler. The primer dust goes into the chamber and down the barrel; no gas tube to worry about. Just the bore and the chamber.

Madpyro 11-11-2012 7:29 PM

That would be chlorate, not chloride.

Rider1k 11-11-2012 7:39 PM

is it feasible to say that you could shoot corrosive ammo for a weekend and then clean your gun and its not going to go to hell?

Vit_sfba 11-16-2012 10:53 PM

Old Russian military manual says that when cleaning after corrosive ammo one has to use alkaline compound as a first stage. US analogs are Hoppes #9 (pH 7), Hoppes Semi Auto (pH 8) and/or Castrol Gun Stripper (pH 7-8).

VegasND 11-17-2012 5:41 AM

Take another look at the pH scale; 7 is neutral.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Vit_sfba (Post 9739239)
Old Russian military manual says that when cleaning after corrosive ammo one has to use alkaline compound as a first stage. US analogs are Hoppes #9 (pH 7), Hoppes Semi Auto (pH 8) and/or Castrol Gun Stripper (pH 7-8).

http://www.abundanthealthcenter.com/...4/PH-Scale.jpg

rsrocket1 11-17-2012 8:10 AM

From the Wiki place:
Quote:

Frankford Arsenal FA-70 primers used potassium chlorate as an oxidizer for lead(II) thiocyanate, to increase the sensitivity of potassium chlorate, and antimony trisulfide, as an abrasive, with minor amounts of trinitrotoluene. These corrosive primers leave a residue of potassium chloride salt in the bore after a cartridge is fired. These hygroscopic salt crystals will hold moisture from a humid atmosphere and cause rusting. These corrosive primers can cause serious damage to the gun unless the barrel and action are cleaned carefully after firing.
If you are out in the desert (or in Sacramento in the summer) you would probably be OK to wait until you get home after a weekend of shooting. I personally pour about a pint of water through a funnel down the chamber of the Mosin Nagant. It is usually so hot that the first few ounces boil over so I do it very slowly. After the water is out, I run a couple of patches to ensure the bore/chamber is dry, then spray some CLP or Rem Oil down the bore and run another patch through. Clean as usual the next day or next weekend after going home.

Divernhunter 11-17-2012 8:45 AM

Here is my take.
I use windex (or some other glass cleaner) at the range because it removes alot of residue from the bore while the bore is warm. I spray it on a patch and run it down the bore followed by dry patches. I was surprised just how much stuff I got out of the bore even when only firing 5 shots. I like the windex as it is in a spray bottle and easy to carry/use. Yes plain water will remove the salts. However I look at it as I can wash my hands with plain water and get them clean or so-so. But if I use soap and water they get cleaner much faster. Same with the rifle barrel plus I remove other fouling besides the salts much faster and more completely.
When I forget the windex at the range I clean at home but have found it more work to get the barrel as clean as when I start with the windex at the range. Either way I then use regular bore cleaner and oil before storing the rifle.
I also have poured hot soapy water down the barrel followed by a patch then hot plain water to rinse just as I do my muzzle loaders. Then a regular gleaning procedure. This also works but I find the windex at the range works best for me.
Another thing to consider many of the mil surplus rifles had chromed bores which helps with the rust problem. Also many firearms over the years have had the barrels pitted etc with improper or no cleaning after using corrosive ammo or black powder. I just do not want to have that happen to mine when I own them.

Riddler 11-17-2012 9:00 AM


Vit_sfba 11-17-2012 9:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VegasND (Post 9739901)
Take another look at the pH scale; 7 is neutral.

I didn't check that myself, that was written in the post in Russian military forum. OTOH, for Hoppes #9, it originally said "pH7-8", dunno how true it is.


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