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Cessnapilot89 11-06-2012 4:40 PM

FAL assembly?
 
Has anyone here assembled an FAL before? Was hoping to find someone in teh bay area who could help me assemble my stg 58 upper once my tools and receiver arrive.

Ajaxx 11-06-2012 7:09 PM

Lets get a build going, I have the wrenches coming & a parts kit on hand

Cessnapilot89 11-07-2012 8:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajaxx (Post 9669752)
Lets get a build going, I have the wrenches coming & a parts kit on hand

I have them en route as well. Still need to get my pin gauges though

arga 11-07-2012 2:41 PM

There's a guy in Gardnerville, NV that will assemble your FAL upper for $150~$160. I love building rifles but when you add up the cost of a receiver wrench, barrel vice, pin gauges, and head space gauges (OK, I probably need the last one anyway) I'm tempted to have it done.

Do you actually have to solder the compensator onto the barrel? Sorry if that's a dumb question but I watched some how-to videos on YouTube on that and I wasn't sure if that was a requirement or something else.

If you guys don't mind, post some pics of your builds. I'm especially interested to see how the barrel times with the gas system. I know there is a ton of info over at FALfiles but there's actually too much info. It's like finding a needle in a needle stack.

Paulie Lugnuts 11-07-2012 2:56 PM

I used a set of feeler guages to find the size of the breeching washer I needed. You'll also need locking shoulder gauges and head spacing gauges to set the head spacing. I used a couple of blocks of wood in a vise to hold the receiver when I did the final barrel tightening.
I can't think of any real problems I had putting it together.

Lostsheep 11-07-2012 3:28 PM

Hmmm.

Sounds like there are several of us in the Bay area that are about to undertake this project. Perhaps we could coordinate on tooling and have a build party.

I have an Argy kit here, and will have the receiver shortly I hope.


ETA: I have a full set of gauge pins in .0005" increments.

Cessnapilot89 11-07-2012 3:39 PM

Just bought a receiver today at River City Gun Exchange. Barrel vice and receiver wrench should be here in a week or so if all goes well. If A build party were to happen, would be happy to lend my tools. Paulie and Lostsheep, where did you purchase the headspace gauges and the gauge pins at? Any recommendations of timing the barrel?

Lostsheep 11-07-2012 4:09 PM

I have a full set of gauge pins courtesy of my machine shop.:D

As far as timing the barrel (the whole build actually) I am learning as I go. This will be my first FAL and at this time I am just reading everything I can. I found the cruffler page very informative and I may get Gunplumbers video to help out.

Ajaxx 11-07-2012 4:13 PM

I could host a build party in Santa Rosa & have a friend that is about ready to build his also. Looks like we may have 4 receiver wrenches & 2 barrel wrenches between us.

Lostsheep 11-07-2012 4:16 PM

I am in on a build party but I do no have any FAL specific tooling. I do have lots of machining tools and I will bring whatever I have. I am also willing to make any jigs or custom tooling that we may need.

Cessnapilot89 11-07-2012 4:17 PM

Ah, I see! Debating ordering the timing tools from a Falfiles member.

Ajaxx 11-07-2012 4:18 PM

Order, Order now

Ajaxx 11-07-2012 4:19 PM

I too have a set of pin gauges if thats whats needed for the locking shoulder set up

Ajaxx 11-07-2012 4:24 PM

L1A1 Inch Milled Receiver
http://centuryarms.biz/proddetail.asp?prod=RE1166
These were $125 ea now I think they may be $99 just need a middle man FFL

Cessnapilot89 11-07-2012 5:38 PM

Picked up a DSA metric today, should make for a nice build. Will go ahead and order the timing tool from Falfiles tomorrow.

arga 11-07-2012 7:06 PM

Thanks Lostsheep for the Cruffler link. That was where I saw the soldering of the muzzle device. Looks like it was left over from the Federal AWB and is no longer any concern. That tips things back in favor of me assembling it myself.

Good luck everyone with your builds but please post pics when you're done. If nothing else, post pics of the completed rifles so we can drool over them.

Cessnapilot89 11-07-2012 8:21 PM

Got a completed one sitting here in the safe so if we mess something up, we can compare to it

Varg Vikernes 11-07-2012 10:29 PM

Man I wish I had disposible money right now to build a FAL :(

Paulie Lugnuts 11-08-2012 7:13 AM

I think I got eveything I needed from Arizona Response Systems. I can't remember how I timed the barrel now, but I don't remember it being a big deal. Mine is a Brit L1A1. Still looking for a Cali legal, 10 round, inch pattern mag. So far I've only fired it single shot. Here's a pic.
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...Picture158.jpg

Cessnapilot89 11-08-2012 7:57 AM

Solar tactical has the blocks required so that you can make the magazine into a 10/20

thedrickel 11-08-2012 7:59 AM

I have all the tools and I've built about 80. I'm in oakland most of the time.

The most important thing to consider is how does your bbl time to the receiver face? If you are short of about 11:00-11:15 you will need to remove material from the bbl shoulder, which can be very time consuming without a lathe. You'll all be standing around with needle files for an hour+

Lostsheep 11-08-2012 8:58 AM

I have a lathe...

I am a little concerned that I might have a canted gas block. Does anyone know how to fix this? Step one is to try and exchange it but if not, how does one fix that?

emelioosluper 11-08-2012 2:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lostsheep (Post 9682502)
I have a lathe...

I am a little concerned that I might have a canted gas block. Does anyone know how to fix this? Step one is to try and exchange it but if not, how does one fix that?

You'll notice 2 flats on the receiver end of the barrel. A gas block that's been installed correctly will have the front sight pin parallel to the flats.

The flats are also vertical when the barrel is timed correctly to the receiver.

I've built 20 or so and have yet to see a canted front sight/gas block, as the barrels were correct (if you're using an actual FAL barrel) when they left the factory. If you're using a US barrel with an installed gas block, all bets may be off.:mad:

Fix would involve un-pinning the gas block, tig welding the gas port in the barrel closed, re-pinning the gasblock, and redrilling the gas port...major pita.

If you guys schedule a build party and need gage pins and headspace gages, pm me...I'd be happy to loan 'em but would need a 100% refundable deposit plus shipping. Based on thedrickel's posts here, getting him to show at a build party may definitely be worth large quantities of food, drink, gas money, etc.;)

Arga, spend more time on the FAL Files, search for timing and you'll see a picture of the hand-tightened triangle you're looking for before you put the wrench to her.;) Correct timing has to happen first, then you can check headspace and install the correct locking shoulder pin.

You can pm me if anything particular doesn't make sense, but be aware that the FAL Files is THE center of info.

hth

EO



eo

Ajaxx 11-08-2012 3:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thedrickel (Post 9682139)
I have all the tools and I've built about 80. I'm in oakland most of the time.

The most important thing to consider is how does your bbl time to the receiver face? If you are short of about 11:00-11:15 you will need to remove material from the bbl shoulder, which can be very time consuming without a lathe. You'll all be standing around with needle files for an hour+

I also have a lathe on site. thedrickel would you be interested in help out some lost souls & attend a build?

thedrickel 11-08-2012 10:07 PM

I can be bribed with 12yo scotch, Fat Tire, u know, the usual ;)

You guys are in luck, I have a good assortment of locking shoulders and breaching washers/bbl shims.

Cessnapilot89 11-09-2012 7:58 AM

I am willing to donate some Fat tire or a 12yo scotch to this cause. Hopefully we can get it scheduled for when there are not many schedule conflicts.

Ajaxx 11-09-2012 9:25 AM

I'll add cigars to to mix. Lets start throwing out some date's. I'm thinking 3 to 4 or so weeks out to let guys collect what they need for a build.

Cessnapilot89 11-09-2012 9:28 AM

That sounds reasonable. A Sunday afternoon would be great if possible. Currently working noon to 9 on saturdays and 6-noon sundays.

jamesob 11-09-2012 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paulie Lugnuts (Post 9681861)
I think I got eveything I needed from Arizona Response Systems. I can't remember how I timed the barrel now, but I don't remember it being a big deal. Mine is a Brit L1A1. Still looking for a Cali legal, 10 round, inch pattern mag. So far I've only fired it single shot. Here's a pic.
http://i247.photobucket.com/albums/g...Picture158.jpg

i took a piece of wood and used it to block the mag to 10 rounds on my l1a1

Lostsheep 11-09-2012 2:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ajaxx (Post 9690264)
I'll add cigars to to mix. Lets start throwing out some date's. I'm thinking 3 to 4 or so weeks out to let guys collect what they need for a build.

Hopefully my receiver from Coonan is here before then (+ 10 days in jail). Adding a couple of weeks to that schedule would really help me.

Ajaxx 11-09-2012 3:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lostsheep (Post 9692444)
Hopefully my receiver from Coonan is here before then (+ 10 days in jail). Adding a couple of weeks to that schedule would really help me.

4 weeks or 6 weeks it all the same to me. I'd rather have a few more then 2 guys show up, So say the word when when parts come in

Lostsheep 11-09-2012 4:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emelioosluper (Post 9685063)
You'll notice 2 flats on the receiver end of the barrel. A gas block that's been installed correctly will have the front sight pin parallel to the flats.

The flats are also vertical when the barrel is timed correctly to the receiver.

I've built 20 or so and have yet to see a canted front sight/gas block, as the barrels were correct (if you're using an actual FAL barrel) when they left the factory. If you're using a US barrel with an installed gas block, all bets may be off.:mad:

http://i964.photobucket.com/albums/a...d/PB080002.jpg

The gas tube clearly does not line up with the notch on top of the barrel. The FSP also appears to be off. I will be giving Sarco a call to see what type of exchange can be arranged.

arga 11-09-2012 6:34 PM

My Sarco Argy barrel looks almost identical. It's defiantly canted but I'm not too worried about it. You're going to install the barrel so the gas system aligns with the receiver so our real problem is going to be the alignment of the extractor notch with the bolt and extractor. The notch appears large enough to allow a slight misalignment. That said I have no fricken' clue how it will really go together. I've never assembled a FAL before.

Ajaxx 11-10-2012 1:12 PM

some FAL parts on WG
http://www.weaponsguild.com/forum/in...?topic=34974.0

emelioosluper 11-11-2012 8:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arga (Post 9693994)
My Sarco Argy barrel looks almost identical. It's defiantly canted but I'm not too worried about it. You're going to install the barrel so the gas system aligns with the receiver so our real problem is going to be the alignment of the extractor notch with the bolt and extractor. The notch appears large enough to allow a slight misalignment. That said I have no fricken' clue how it will really go together. I've never assembled a FAL before.

I just checked 2 Imbel 21's and an Imbel PARA...yours looks good. Extractor notch is where it should be and the front sight misalignment you see can easily be fixed by the rear sight windage screws.

Lostsheep...next step is to make sure the barrel can be hand-tightened to the receiver...may take some thread cleaning on the barrel and/or receiver.

Search the FAL Files for 'barrel timing'. Can you hand-tighten the barrel to 10:30 or 11 o'clock? If so, grab the barrel vise and receiver wrench and tighten until the upper barrel notch is at 12 o'clock.

If you can't get to 10:30 or 11:00 by hand, you'll need to remove material from the barrel shoulder until you can. If you can hand-tighten to past 11:00, you'll need to shim between the barrel and receiver.

Thread pitch is 16 tpi, so a 5-mil thick shim will get you about 30 degrees of movement.

I've never used anything but sighting through the gas nut once I get close to correct timing and eye-balling the front sight. Sometimes a piece of light mono-filament tied to the front sight post and pulled back toward the receiver can help.

Again, study what you see on the FAL Files and proceed accordingly.

hth

EO

Lostsheep 11-11-2012 2:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by emelioosluper (Post 9701927)
I just checked 2 Imbel 21's and an Imbel PARA...yours looks good. Extractor notch is where it should be and the front sight misalignment you see can easily be fixed by the rear sight windage screws.

Lostsheep...next step is to make sure the barrel can be hand-tightened to the receiver...may take some thread cleaning on the barrel and/or receiver.

Search the FAL Files for 'barrel timing'.

EO

While there may be enough adjustment, I really don't want an obviously canted front sight. I am going to exchange it or get another. I kinda want an 18" barrel anyways and I've been reading that it is sacrilegious to cut the original barrel down.

WRT timing, I do not yet have my receiver but hopefully that will change shortly. I've heard good things about the coonan receivers and that will be the first thing I check. Should it not time correctly I do have a lathe to fix it and lots of shim stock if need be.

I've got an elementary understanding of the entire build process; the FALFILES have been extremely helpful.

Sicarius 11-14-2012 9:08 AM

damnit, want a 3rd fal to build...
Kevin

Cessnapilot89 11-14-2012 7:19 PM

Barrel vice and receiver wrench arrived today. Worked like a charm. Was able to successfully remove the receiver stub from my barrel. Would highly recommend a 5 foot extension on the breaker bar.

Cessnapilot89 11-15-2012 3:29 PM

Should any type of anti seize be used on the thread?

-hanko 11-16-2012 6:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cessnapilot89 (Post 9730054)
Should any type of anti seize be used on the thread?

I use StaLube assembly grease, p/n SL3333...NAPA auto parts or similar...outstanding for AR triggers, bolt rifle bolt lugs, etc. Lotsa' guys just use light oil. Use a very light coating of whatever you pick, and make sure you can hand-tighten until the barrel shoulder contacts the receiver.

Double check that the rear of the barrel is NOT making contact with the receiver. If it does, you'll need to relieve the receiver (gently) until there's no interference.

I use a breaker bar on the wrench and a chunk of pipe about 3 feet long if necessary, and it usually is;). I've had better luck bolting the barrel vise to a bench than sticking it in a vise.

Pics of the finished gun will be required.;)

hth

-hanko


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