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-   -   Glock 34's (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=639652)

jeffreyliu838 11-04-2012 12:38 AM

Glock 34's
 
Maybe I'm stupid or something but I can't find a definitive answer on what division the Glock 34 shoots in. I'm planning on starting to shoot in three gun and I really like the Glock 34, but I don't want to shoot in the open divisions. I'm trying to rig my set up for tac scope. I've googled and searched and the rules say the porting puts the gun into open division, but google says that a lot of shooters shoot the 34 in limited and tac scope divisions. I can't even find a definite answer for uspsa, ipsc and idpa. The ipsc rules actually explicitly say that the 34 is not a production class gun but a lot of people claim to shoot it in production (google yielded threads...). What's the answer?

Chontkleer 11-04-2012 1:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreyliu838 (Post 9650464)
Maybe I'm stupid or something but I can't find a definitive answer on what division the Glock 34 shoots in. I'm planning on starting to shoot in three gun and I really like the Glock 34, but I don't want to shoot in the open divisions. I'm trying to rig my set up for tac scope. I've googled and searched and the rules say the porting puts the gun into open division, but google says that a lot of shooters shoot the 34 in limited and tac scope divisions. I can't even find a definite answer for uspsa, ipsc and idpa. The ipsc rules actually explicitly say that the 34 is not a production class gun but a lot of people claim to shoot it in production (google yielded threads...). What's the answer?

I suspect the problem you're seeing is that local chapters and matches often fudge the rules, but the fudginess goes away as you progress to regional / national competitions.

jeffreyliu838 11-04-2012 2:13 AM

So if I want to shoot at larger comps, I should stick with a g17? That's a bummer, since I really liked the 34 I shot.

ElDub1950 11-04-2012 4:16 AM

the G34 is Production Class in USPSA and Stock Service Pistol class in IDPA. Seems the problem is that you want to add a scope. That prohibits you from being in the production class. Check the USPSA.org rules. It's stated right there what's allowed and not allowed in each division. There's very little you can do to a production gun and remain in production division. Adding a 'tac scope' is out. Porting is allowed only if they come from the factory ported. The definitive answer is the spelled out in the rules instead of random google responses.
Example, for USPSA go to the USPSA.org, click on their rules, go to Appendix D4 lists what's allowed and prohibited in production. Line 13 answers your question about optics. Line 17 answers your question about porting.

VictorFranko 11-04-2012 4:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreyliu838 (Post 9650464)
I can't even find a definite answer for uspsa, ipsc and idpa.

For IDPA, the G34 is an SSP (stock service pistol) unless you modify it (stippling, beveled magwell, metal guide rod, etc).
Modified, it would then be an ESP (enhanced service pistol).
See pages 19-22 in the IDPA rulebook IDPA Rulebook

prc77 11-04-2012 4:44 AM

Tac Scope and the G34 is fine. Most 3gunners do not run an open pistol.
Open div. is usually but not always about the choice of shotgun, Mag feed shotguns, and stickfeed are open type shotguns.

Yar 11-04-2012 5:36 AM

The g34 is one of the more popular pistol for tac optics in 3 gun. Where your confusion comes in is that your confusing uspsa with ipsc. They are very similar games with very similar rules but it is not the same exact game. In the united states we play uspsa but often we refer to the game as ipsc because it is easier to say pronounced "ip-sick". In uspsa the g34 box stock is ready to go for production. In ipsc (game shot outside of USA) the G34 is excluded.
The second part is just because the base gun is legal you can modify it to the point it is not legal. Such as installing barrels with ports or red dot sights. Stick with non ported barrels and iron sights and you're good to go.

cal3gunner 11-04-2012 8:30 AM

...

icedevil 11-04-2012 1:42 PM

Everyone has confirmed that the G34 is in fact a great choice for tac optics (and uspsa production and IDPA ssp), but I think your initial confusion goes back to what the rules generally consider "porting". This generally refers to porting of the barrel like on the C models from glock and not the slide cut-out found on the G34. Barrel porting is intended to function like a compensator, which is generally prohibited in all but the most wide open divisions.

jeffreyliu838 11-04-2012 5:22 PM

Alright right on, g34 it is then. Now I just have to find a private seller since the gun control nazi's won't let people under 21 buy new handguns from stores...

Thanks for the help.

Atekhed 11-04-2012 6:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreyliu838 (Post 9654277)
Now I just have to find a private seller since the gun control nazi's won't let people under 21 buy new handguns from stores...

Might want to think about deleting that post esp on a public forum.

PPT/private sale is not going to change that. Still against federal and state laws to sell a handgun to anyone under 21 regardless.

prc77 11-04-2012 6:41 PM

:facepalm:
Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreyliu838 (Post 9654277)
Alright right on, g34 it is then. Now I just have to find a private seller since the gun control nazi's won't let people under 21 buy new handguns from stores...

Thanks for the help.


ElDub1950 11-04-2012 8:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atekhed (Post 9654715)
Might want to think about deleting that post esp on a public forum.

PPT/private sale is not going to change that. Still against federal and state laws to sell a handgun to anyone under 21 regardless.

^^ That! OP you might want to read up the CA gun laws as well as the competition rules.

Here's one source http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/pd...ms/Cfl2007.pdf
see page 40 "No person, corporation, or firm shall sell, loan, or transfer a firearm to a minor. (Penal
Code 12072(a)(3).)"

jumbopanda 11-04-2012 8:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreyliu838 (Post 9654277)
Alright right on, g34 it is then. Now I just have to find a private seller since the gun control nazi's won't let people under 21 buy new handguns from stores...

Thanks for the help.

The only legal way for you to get one is to have one of your parents or grandparents transfer it to you.

jeffreyliu838 11-04-2012 9:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Atekhed (Post 9654715)
Might want to think about deleting that post esp on a public forum.

PPT/private sale is not going to change that. Still against federal and state laws to sell a handgun to anyone under 21 regardless.

You are mistaken. It is against California state laws. Not federal. Don't get your panties in a bunch, I don't live in California anymore. However I probably will again in 5 years or so and will bring plenty of off roster handguns with me.

GeoffLinder 11-05-2012 4:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yar (Post 9650780)
The g34 is one of the more popular pistol for tac optics in 3 gun. Where your confusion comes in is that your confusing uspsa with ipsc. They are very similar games with very similar rules but it is not the same exact game. In the united states we play uspsa but often we refer to the game as ipsc because it is easier to say pronounced "ip-sick". In uspsa the g34 box stock is ready to go for production. In ipsc (game shot outside of USA) the G34 is excluded.
The second part is just because the base gun is legal you can modify it to the point it is not legal. Such as installing barrels with ports or red dot sights. Stick with non ported barrels and iron sights and you're good to go.

^^ This!! So far this is just about the only solid data on the competition requirements in this thread.

Listen to the experienced USPSA Multi-Gun competitors here. The 34 is a perfect pistol choice for Multi-Gun (USPSA or IMG/Outlaw). Tac Scope is all about the rifle, one optic, specific muzzle brake dimensions and no bipods allowed. The shotgun must meet Limited division rules.

More info here: http://www.3gunrules.com/index.php?o...&id=4&Itemid=7

Depends on where you are located, but if NorCal come on out to RRGC and get started: http://www.richmondhotshots.com

Most clubs have safety certification requirements, ours are specified at the above link.

Welcome to the sport!

Bobby Hated 11-05-2012 5:45 AM

what Yar said

jeffreyliu838 11-05-2012 1:03 PM

I'm getting a g34 for sure.

Not in norcal. In norcarolina, lol. I'm just gonna stick with a standard a2 flash hider. I want to stay competitive, but I don't want to sacrifice the idea behind the sport, so unless there are mods or tuning tips for the standard a2 fh, it's staying as is. I'm a pretty good iron sight shot and honestly the 4x scope doesn't really do much for me til like 400+ where I actually start having trouble seeing silhouettes (it does help with smaller targets though) so I might end up shooting iron sights if I'm more competitive there.

GeoffLinder 11-05-2012 2:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreyliu838 (Post 9659328)
I'm getting a g34 for sure.

Not in norcal. In norcarolina, lol. I'm just gonna stick with a standard a2 flash hider. I want to stay competitive, but I don't want to sacrifice the idea behind the sport, so unless there are mods or tuning tips for the standard a2 fh, it's staying as is. I'm a pretty good iron sight shot and honestly the 4x scope doesn't really do much for me til like 400+ where I actually start having trouble seeing silhouettes (it does help with smaller targets though) so I might end up shooting iron sights if I'm more competitive there.

Do Not discount a muzzle brake versus the standard birdcage flash-hider. It makes a HUGE difference in shot to shot times and will go a long way towards competitiveness no matter what division you choose. Iron sights on an AR put you in Limited limited division, shotgun and pistol requirements are the same in Tac Scope and Limited. Also, Limited is a less populated division than Tac Scope so you will do better there to start than in Tac Scope anyway, Tac is also known as the "shark pond" of multi-gun ;)

jeffreyliu838 11-06-2012 4:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffLinder (Post 9659987)
Do Not discount a muzzle brake versus the standard birdcage flash-hider. It makes a HUGE difference in shot to shot times and will go a long way towards competitiveness no matter what division you choose. Iron sights on an AR put you in Limited limited division, shotgun and pistol requirements are the same in Tac Scope and Limited. Also, Limited is a less populated division than Tac Scope so you will do better there to start than in Tac Scope anyway, Tac is also known as the "shark pond" of multi-gun ;)

I want to be competitive but I'm not gonna be putting a muzzle brake on my service rifle, so I don't want to get used to shooting a m4gery with no recoil and then being all screwed up when I shoot with an m4. Muzzle brakes are kosher in limited and limited limited?

Bobby Hated 11-06-2012 4:46 AM

just get a damn muzzle break.

that business about building bad habits with a better gun is hogwash.

GeoffLinder 11-06-2012 6:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Hated (Post 9664024)
just get a damn muzzle break.

that business about building bad habits with a better gun is hogwash.

Yup, some folks just don't recognize good shjt even when it's spoon fed LOL

To OP, you are getting the best help money can't buy here. We are spending our time helping ya' because we know better from hard experience! At least do us the favor of trying to recognize that. Thx

The Virus 11-06-2012 6:52 AM

People tend to learn better from trial and error. Especially in the shooting world.
It's a process, happens over and over and over again. Embrace it.
You will end up with a muzzle brake eventually.......

jeffreyliu838 11-06-2012 7:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bobby Hated (Post 9664024)
just get a damn muzzle break.

that business about building bad habits with a better gun is hogwash.

Well ignoring the fact that a muzzle brake doesn't make a gun better (it makes it better for shooting 3 gun) how do you figure. If I shoot often with a muzzle brake I get used to a much tamer recoil. Whereas shooting with a flash hider, I get used to normal recoil.

And I do appreciate the advice, thanks for all of it. But I'm not putting anything on my ar15 that I wouldn't put on my m4.

edit: I would be down for something like this though:

http://www.operationparts.com/YHM_Ya...yhm-28-5c2.htm

It doesn't look like it would perform any differently than an a2 flash hider... Anyone use it?

GeoffLinder 11-06-2012 7:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreyliu838 (Post 9664507)
Well ignoring the fact that a muzzle brake doesn't make a gun better (it makes it better for shooting 3 gun) how do you figure. If I shoot often with a muzzle brake I get used to a much tamer recoil. Whereas shooting with a flash hider, I get used to normal recoil.

And I do appreciate the advice, thanks for all of it. But I'm not putting anything on my ar15 that I wouldn't put on my m4.

edit: I would be down for something like this though:

http://www.operationparts.com/YHM_Ya...yhm-28-5c2.htm

It doesn't look like it would perform any differently than an a2 flash hider... Anyone use it?

A .223 does not have a lot of recoil in the first place, what a muzzle brake brings to the table is less rifle motion which disturbs sights. It allows for faster and more accurate follow-up shots, this is very important if you want to do well in competition as all paper targets require 2 rounds to neutralize and hammering them into a pair of snake eyes is very important.

Many, many LEO and other real world folks compete too and they don't have trouble with this. It's a non-starter issue and you are thinking too much in the wrong direction here.

Yar 11-06-2012 7:21 AM

The muzzle brake is not necessary and it is more a 3 gun thing. There are some gun games where you can't have them because it blasts the other shooters on the line. If you have to run a certain configuration for work then by all means use that for competition if you would like.

I will warn you that there is a reason why anyone who is serious about 3 gun has a brake. I won't bother going into it. The most important thing is you get out there and shooting with whatever you have as soon as you can and sort out everything else as you go along. You will take the same path we all did. You come in with a certain idea of who you are and what you do. You get your ego judo flipped onto it's behind and you all of a sudden open yourself up to new ideas.

GeoffLinder 11-06-2012 7:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yar (Post 9664582)
The most important thing is you get out there and shooting with whatever you have as soon as you can and sort out everything else as you go along. You will take the same path we all did. You come in with a certain idea of who you are and what you do. You get your ego judo flipped onto it's behind and you all of a sudden open yourself up to new ideas.

I'll agree with this whole-heartedly. School of hard knocks teaches well. Makes you wind up buying lots of new stuff as you go along too ;)

jeffreyliu838 11-06-2012 7:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffLinder (Post 9664575)
A .223 does not have a lot of recoil in the first place, what a muzzle brake brings to the table is less rifle motion which disturbs sights. It allows for faster and more accurate follow-up shots, this is very important if you want to do well in competition as all paper targets require 2 rounds to neutralize and hammering them into a pair of snake eyes is very important.

Many, many LEO and other real world folks compete too and they don't have trouble with this. It's a non-starter issue and you are thinking too much in the wrong direction here.

Right, I understand the purpose and function of a brake. I feel like the cons outweigh the pros. Like whiting out everyone's night vision when a giant fireball comes out of the muzzle or being swallowed by a dust storm when you shoot in the prone.

Is there some sort of brake or compensator that will function as well (or better?) than an a2 as a flash hider? I'd be down for that.

GeoffLinder 11-06-2012 7:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreyliu838 (Post 9664688)
Right, I understand the purpose and function of a brake. I feel like the cons outweigh the pros. Like whiting out everyone's night vision when a giant fireball comes out of the muzzle or being swallowed by a dust storm when you shoot in the prone.

Is there some sort of brake or compensator that will function as well (or better?) than an a2 as a flash hider? I'd be down for that.

They all function better for rifle stabilization purpose than birdcage. Birdcage only suppresses flash signature. Only an issue in military, not in real life defense sitch'

Muzzle flash will not bother shooter anywhere but in a military situation where it reveals shooter more easily. Only time a muzzle brake ever gave me any issues was in a match with 10" of powder snow on ground and shooting prone, even then I still won that rifle stage ;)

Your training will always stay with you no matter what you use or do. If you are well trained, then you automatically adapt per situation, end of story here.

jeffreyliu838 11-06-2012 8:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GeoffLinder (Post 9664756)
They all function better for rifle stabilization purpose than birdcage. Birdcage only suppresses flash signature. Only an issue in military, not in real life defense sitch'

Muzzle flash will not bother shooter anywhere but in a military situation where it reveals shooter more easily. Only time a muzzle brake ever gave me any issues was in a match with 10" of powder snow on ground and shooting prone, even then I still won that rifle stage ;)

Your training will always stay with you no matter what you use or do. If you are well trained, then you automatically adapt per situation, end of story here.

I understand the function of a flash suppressor as well. I disagree with muzzle flash not bothering anybody. My buddy's gun throws out a no **** fireball with every shot and I'm willing to bet that could blind a dude and white out his night vision. Fact is, I'm not going to ever be in a gun fight where I'll have a muzzle brake on a rifle, so I figure I won't train with one. If I could find one at a good price, I'd definitely buy it just to try it out. I'm not close minded or anything but right now with what I know and have experienced (very little, honestly) with muzzle brakes, I'll probably take it off my rifle.

GeoffLinder 11-06-2012 9:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreyliu838 (Post 9664957)
I understand the function of a flash suppressor as well. I disagree with muzzle flash not bothering anybody. My buddy's gun throws out a no **** fireball with every shot and I'm willing to bet that could blind a dude and white out his night vision. Fact is, I'm not going to ever be in a gun fight where I'll have a muzzle brake on a rifle, so I figure I won't train with one. If I could find one at a good price, I'd definitely buy it just to try it out. I'm not close minded or anything but right now with what I know and have experienced (very little, honestly) with muzzle brakes, I'll probably take it off my rifle.

You are welcome to go your own way, even encouraged to if that's how you strongly feel, but if you are serious about competing you will eventually wind up down the same funnel everyone else does or you just won't be quite as competitive. Kinda' like road racing with a bone stock street bike will make you a perpetual back-marker ;)

gose 11-06-2012 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreyliu838 (Post 9664957)
I understand the function of a flash suppressor as well. I disagree with muzzle flash not bothering anybody. My buddy's gun throws out a no **** fireball with every shot and I'm willing to bet that could blind a dude and white out his night vision. Fact is, I'm not going to ever be in a gun fight where I'll have a muzzle brake on a rifle, so I figure I won't train with one. If I could find one at a good price, I'd definitely buy it just to try it out. I'm not close minded or anything but right now with what I know and have experienced (very little, honestly) with muzzle brakes, I'll probably take it off my rifle.

Most people that arent in the military, especially if you ask in a competition forum, dont spend too much time worrying about nightvision or getting into firefights ;)

The Virus 11-06-2012 11:22 AM

Battle Comp, have a look at that.
Also check out 21st century gunfighter's 4 part muzzle device review on YouTube

MossbergMan 11-07-2012 9:13 PM

BattleComp II is the same dimensions as the A2 flash hider. It works well at reducing muzzle jump for faster shot to shot times, better accuracy due to less muzzle jump (even with a 5.56). The BCII also accepts the Sure Fire suppessors.

Worried about not shooting in competition what you shoot on the job is legit, but you should be "shooting your sights" not timing or cadence. When your sights don't leave your target you can pump round on top of round into the "A" zone. In the real world you should only be pressing the trigger when the sights are on target. If you fire an un-compensated rifle "on the job" it will not be the same conditions you'll have on the range.
I shoot both 5.56 and 7.62.....guess what, they recoil differently and I don't shoot the 7.62 nearly as fast as my 5.56. Not because one's comp'd and the other isn't...I shoot the sights, not a cadence. Each shot is an individual decision to fire (except at extreme CQB) and should be based on a sight picture being acquired as the trigger is pressed.
You know yourself better than any of us do and if you feel it may cause some sort of "training scar" don't do it...and continue to be the "back marker" (love that analogy). But if you're the least bit competitive in nature and serious about competing you'll reconsider, if not and you're shooting for the mere fun and challenge of it... then "party on Garth" don't change a thing.
I was once a "run what'cha brung" (meaning my duty equipment) kinda guy but tired of being beat by shooters that were not as good a shot as I am but had better equipment and was able to shoot faster in a game of speed over accuracy (USPSA). And before anyone goes high order detonation on me...yes you have to somewhat accurate to succeed at IP-SICK, no doubt about it.
Just the opinion of a born again AR15 Gear Queer, not those of the managements.

HighLander51 11-08-2012 5:07 AM

Maybe Jeffry doesn't really want to shoot 3 gun at all, but rather want's us experienced 3 gunners to agree with him about his choice of comps, even if we know they won't work for the game. Like Yar already said, jump in with what you have and after a few matches, you will see why everyone runs pretty much the same rig. It's only because it works best for the game, that's all.

cal3gunner 11-08-2012 1:28 PM

...

jeffreyliu838 11-09-2012 5:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HighLander51 (Post 9681418)
Maybe Jeffry doesn't really want to shoot 3 gun at all, but rather want's us experienced 3 gunners to agree with him about his choice of comps, even if we know they won't work for the game. Like Yar already said, jump in with what you have and after a few matches, you will see why everyone runs pretty much the same rig. It's only because it works best for the game, that's all.

Maybe you can quit being a passive aggressive elitist and give suggestions in accordance to my posts? Like I said, I'm all for a comp as long as it doesn't throw out ridiculous fireballs. I'll buy something marginally worse than an a2 in terms of flash and sound redirection, but beyond that I don't really want.

I'm looking at the bc, the spike's dyacomp and the pri right now... Further suggestions are appreciated.

Thanks.

HighLander51 11-09-2012 5:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeffreyliu838 (Post 9693428)
Maybe you can quit being a passive aggressive elitist

Thanks.

Quit asking and start tasking. You have to come out and SHOOT A MATCH to find out for yourself, otherwise what does it matter? I, nor does anybody else with real 3 gun experience care what gear, or comp, you use. You will come in last anyway...

ar15barrels 11-09-2012 6:38 PM

I didn't read every post here, but is the OP really looking for a competition specific handgun, then refusing to also have a competition specific rifle?
Why bother having a g34 if you are not looking to be competitive?
If you just want to train, train with a glock 17.
They come out of a full coverage duty holster faster and they move faster from target to target.
If you want to get a comp handgun, at least build a decent comp rifle to go with it...

SuperSet 11-09-2012 8:04 PM

Randall, back in the Competition forum, welcome back!


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