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StudioDison 09-23-2012 8:24 AM

survival rifles.
 
I just can make up my mind. I want a survival rifle. I am looking at the Henry Ar7, the 10/22 td, and the Savage model 42. I really like the AR7 size break down. I like the Reliability of the Ruger. I like the duel cal of the Savage. I'm concerned with the accuracy of the Henry. It seams weak. I already have a 10/22 that is fully customized.
Any ideas or inputs? Thanx.

Chaos47 09-23-2012 10:22 AM

Just throwing another into the ring: Marlin 70PPS "Papoose"
Probably the most accurate of all of the ones listed.

Mail Clerk 09-23-2012 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StudioDison (Post 9380158)
I just can make up my mind. I want a survival rifle. I am looking at the Henry Ar7, the 10/22 td, and the Savage model 42. I really like the AR7 size break down. I like the Reliability of the Ruger. I like the duel cal of the Savage. I'm concerned with the accuracy of the Henry. It seams weak. I already have a 10/22 that is fully customized.
Any ideas or inputs? Thanx.

StudioDison,

Regardless of which rifle you choose you still have to test it using various brands of ammo and select which one demostrates the best accuracy out that particular rifle. All the rifles you mentioned are good picks but there are others like Chaos47 had mentioned in his posting.

If you like the Henry for hardcore survival packing you can't beat it's portability. Now Ruger has it's own version that is a good competitor but the Henry is not bad in my book.

Mail Clerk

Cali-Shooter 09-23-2012 10:56 AM

Since you already have a 10/22, you might want to look into a decent bolt action .22 LR rifle. And put a scope on it so that it can be an accurate small game hunter.

secret.asian.man 09-23-2012 10:56 AM

so you are looking for a .22 that breaks down in half?

TheThousands 09-23-2012 12:28 PM

I have a 10/22 TD with simmons 22 mag scope and Kidd "trigger job" trigger kit, shoots REALLY well and I'm decently accurate with it offhand. I have no problems hitting targets at 50 yards which is the furthest I have shot it so far. I break it down before and after every range trip but it's held zero just fine, only thing I don't like is the front iron sight since my vision is so crappy I can barely see it.

james758 09-23-2012 1:25 PM

You might look into the Sig 522. Its pretty accurate for a semiauto 22 with a 16" barrel. It doesn't exactly break down but it has a folding stock which folds to 26.1" and it is pretty light so its easy to carry around all day. You can get (in free states) 25 rd mags for it and they are VERY reliable. It has very few moving parts and its really easy to take apart and clean.
Only downside is the price. Cheapest I have ever seen them for is $450 out the door.
Good luck on your search.

frigginchi 09-23-2012 1:45 PM

I have one of these. It's pretty nice to be able to stow an extra mag in the stock. At 4 lbs it's pretty light.

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/su-22/

http://www.keltecweapons.com/uploade...eSU22_2657.jpg

Donkeypunch0420 09-23-2012 1:45 PM

Since you have a 10/22 already, you could always get a Butler Creek folding stock. The gun won't fully break in half, but when the stock is folded, the rifle is very compact (and you can still fire it!).

fendter 09-23-2012 2:49 PM

How about a Browning SA22? It breaks down and much nicer than a 10/22.

uxo2 09-23-2012 2:55 PM

Chipmunk 22.....

Guns R Tools 09-23-2012 6:54 PM

I have Henry AR-7. It jams now and then. Also the sight picture is very awkward due to stock design. Try shooting someone else' AR-7 before buying.

Cali-Shooter 09-23-2012 8:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by frigginchi (Post 9381722)
I have one of these. It's pretty nice to be able to stow an extra mag in the stock. At 4 lbs it's pretty light.

http://www.keltecweapons.com/our-guns/rifles/su-22/

http://www.keltecweapons.com/uploade...eSU22_2657.jpg

Those would be nice if it weren't for the fact that the standard cap magazines are considered WMD's in this sorry state. That's really the only thing that keeps me from getting one.

slicknickns 09-24-2012 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donkeypunch0420 (Post 9381724)
Since you have a 10/22 already, you could always get a Butler Creek folding stock. The gun won't fully break in half, but when the stock is folded, the rifle is very compact (and you can still fire it!).

I know rimfire laws are vaguely different in our state's AWB, but are folding stocks OK with a detachable mag?

Chaos47 09-24-2012 12:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slicknickns (Post 9385162)
I know rimfire laws are vaguely different in our state's AWB, but are folding stocks OK with a detachable mag?

This should help
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=586074
Quote:

Originally Posted by Quiet (Post 8787845)
26" minimum overall length for both the Feds and CA.

Feds measure the firearm in it's longest fire-able position (stock extended/open).

CA measure the firearm in it's shortest fire-able position (stock collapsed/closed).

Because you are in CA, you need to make sure that the firearm has a 26" or greater overall length when the firearm is in it's shortest fire-able position (stock collapsed/closed).


StudioDison 09-24-2012 6:49 AM

Lots of great info. Thank you.

Excaliburr 09-24-2012 7:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos47 (Post 9380719)
Just throwing another into the ring: Marlin 70PPS "Papoose"
Probably the most accurate of all of the ones listed.

Can you find one? I couldn't for the life of me. I ended up buying the Ruger 10/22TD and no regrets. They are accurate as heck too. I can shoot a quarter sized group at 75 yards with my 2-7 power scope. Gun is more accurate than I am with the right ammo.

Excaliburr 09-24-2012 7:53 AM

If you are really into survival, it seems you have the .22 covered with the 10/22. Perhaps you should consider a shotgun. The "circuit judge" comes to mind in that it shoots a .410 shotgun and a .45 Colt. Both these can put different game on the table if need be. In a survival situation, that is where the focus needs to be, providing game/protein for the table. Your body cannot survive for long without protein, especially if you are having to work it hard during tough times.

CSACANNONEER 09-24-2012 8:48 AM

One of the few guns I've ever gotten rid of was an AR7. Unless you need the floating feature, I'd go for something else. I do have a M6 but, it's on the heavy side. A 10-22 takedown isn't a bad suggestion. I like the suggestion of a Chipmunk better though. Personally, I'd go with a Winchester 1906 since, it is light enough, breaks down very easily and is a pump action repeater. Besides, I just have a thing for gallery guns in general.

surplus-addict 09-24-2012 9:47 AM

Baikal MP94, aka the cheapest 22/.410 firearm available. With the .410 and the 22, you can take down any animal in the U.S. if you put your mind to it. (available at my local gunshop for only $250, too!) Don't let the price scare ya: This is a really nice gun, it's made at Izmash for pete's sake! It's nice and compact to boot!

http://img1.findthebest.com/sites/de...kal_MP94_1.jpg


MyOdessa 09-24-2012 10:05 AM

Why not T/C Contender, it is a single shot, but you can have as many calibers as you want, have it as rifle or handgun and it can be stowed in a very small and light package.

http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps0bb2462a.jpg

44fred 09-24-2012 10:10 AM

Will someone just buy one of these already so you can tell the rest of us about it.
I was about 2min. away from ordering one when something more pressing came up and gobbled up some $.
I know it's extreme but I think we all own some guns that don't make since to others.

http://www.packrifle.com/

cudakidd 09-24-2012 1:52 PM

I have a Henry Minibolt and a Papoose. The Papoose has the advantage of semi auto with a 10 round mag. The Henry can be taken down with a dime (one screw in stock) and has the advantage of feeding ANY .22, short, long, long rifle.

The Henry is locked in my wifes Jeep and I have the Papoose. Both are Stainless steel high quality American Made firearms with good reputations...

evolution1974 09-24-2012 3:18 PM

OP, if you canít pick one then buy them all. Of the three that you listed, they all seem to have their own positive attributes. The Henry made AR-7, with its waterproof protection, would make a good option for a person who would use it for river rafting trips, canoeing and fishing. Its light weight and compact storage would also allow it to be used for backpacking trips. In addition, Henry has a reputation for standing behind its products with great customer service, if for some reason the AR-7 fails to function properly.

Even though I already own several different versions of the 10/22, I purchased a couple of the 10/22 Take Down rifles when they first came out and am glad I did. One 10/22 TD is still unfired while the other has been shot and has functioned flawlessly using the stock 10 round magazine. I would like to note that some of my older 10 round 10/22 magazines had problems fitting into my 10/22 TD because the mag well was a bit tight. Other than that, the 10/22 TD shot well with different types of ammo (Fed 550 value pack, Fed AutoMatch, Winchester 555 value pack and Blazer 525 value pack). The 10/22 TD has no problem returning to zero after breaking it down and reassembling it. Iíve shot my 10/22 TD with the stock trigger pull at 5lbs 12oz and was content with its performance using both open sights and a scope. I recently upgraded my 10/22 TD with a Kidd 10/22 ďtrigger jobĒ kit which changed my trigger pull to 2lbs 8oz. After performing the modification I can see a noticeable decrease in my shot groups and Iím very happy with the Kidd trigger. The 10/22 TD is a solid gun and fun to shoot.

The Savage 42 may be a good overall option but is heavier and slow to reload compared to your other two options. However, if your purpose is to put meat in the pot then rapid fire is not necessarily required. The jury is still out on the Savage 42 since itís still new and is only chambered for .22lr and .410. I own several Savage Model 24 combos (predecessor to the 42) which are chambered in a variety of calibers. I own several in .22lr over .410 and a .22lr over 20ga. I prefer my Model 24 with the .22lr over 20ga and it comes with me on every camping trip. On my camping trips, whenever itís possible/legal, Iíll pull out the Model 24 to bust clay pigeons with the 20ga and plink targets with the .22lr. In general, combo guns are great for hunting because when you are looking for targets of opportunity you can decide, in a matter of seconds, which round is best for the situation. Years back I watched a program on the Discovery Channel call Out Of The Wild: The Alaska Experiment. On the program I believe the participants had a .22lr/.410 combo (most likely a Savage 24). The gun was heavy but did function well and provided the participants with ďmeat on the tableĒ.

Overall, I like the option of having rifles and shotguns with a take down feature. When the gun is taken down the profile of the gun is diminished and can fit into a smaller/discreet bag. Take down guns can be cleaned from the chamber instead of the muzzle. The compact size of a take down allows it to be stored easily when not in use or when space is an issue.

Here are some pictures of my 10/22 TD, Savage 24 and others (M6 Scout, Taurus 62 and Norinco ATD).

http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/z...n/1859513d.jpg

http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/z...n/d6644428.jpg

http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/z...n/cb1c85ca.jpg


Here is a picture of the Ruger 10/22 TD shooting open sights with stock trigger at 20 yards (10 shot groups).

http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/z...1/9f996288.jpg


Here is a picture of the Ruger 10/22 TD using a 3x-7x scope and Kidd trigger job at 20 yards (20 shot groups). Left is Federal 550 value pack and right is Fed AutoMatch.

http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/z...F3002785BE.jpg

http://i808.photobucket.com/albums/z...F30D618445.jpg

usmcchet9296 09-25-2012 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MyOdessa (Post 9386623)
Why not T/C Contender, it is a single shot, but you can have as many calibers as you want, have it as rifle or handgun and it can be stowed in a very small and light package.

http://i312.photobucket.com/albums/l...ps0bb2462a.jpg

although I dont need it as a survival rifle the T/C contender is something Im interested
want to get it in .22, .223, 50S&W, and a few others
would be a fun firearm to have

gun toting monkeyboy 09-25-2012 12:42 PM

You know, I'll second the Papoose, but only the new model. I have one of those, and one of the older models (blued steel instead of stainless), and the new one is far superior. And the case it comes in floats, if you worry about that kind of thing. I was stuck doing a prolonged move a few years back, and the only .22 I had access to was my papoose. It did everything I needed it to, and was a real tack-driver to boot. My target 10/22 will outshoot it, but is nowhere near as handy. If you can find one, I highly recommend them.

One other gun that you might consider is the Crickett. Somebody mentioned the Chipmunk. The Crickett is the same concept. A single-shot, kid-sized .22 LR bolt action. The sights are good. It is almost indestructible. It is very light weight. And even with the child-sized stock, it is still quite useable by adults. You can put a scope on it if you want. I have used my daughter's to take out rabbits and varmints. She used it to take her first rabbit. And they actually make them with adult-sized stocks now, along with a .22 WRM version. Not bad for around $120. Just something to think about.

-Mb

MasterrEugene 09-25-2012 9:03 PM

I would probably get a Marlin Papoose if it was available and if i were you.

k1dude 09-26-2012 12:05 AM

The AR-7 is a jam-o-matic and not that accurate. The new Ruger 10/22 Take Down is a fine rifle, but weighs about a pound too much. Same with the Savage 42, it could lose a pound and being single shot, doesn't have the firepower of some of the other options. The Marlin Papoose wins the contest IMHO. Too bad it isn't made anymore.

My choice for the best survival rifle made today is the Kel-Tec SU-16. It weighs about the same as the 10/22 TD and the Savage 42, but it's a 5.56x45 instead of a .22 LR. It'll take your pre-ban hi-cap AR-15 mags too.

handbuiltxj 09-26-2012 8:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1dude (Post 9398975)
The AR-7 is a jam-o-matic and not that accurate.

I kind of disagree with the AR-7 Statement. My Henry AR-7 (black honeycomb) has seen over 1000 rounds of Remington cheap bulk ammo by the brick in the past month without jamming. As far as accuracy goes, I am not a very good shot (old eyes), but when I put the $15 wallyworld scope on it, at 25 yards i am getting 1" groups, consistently.

It did not like the winchester bulk ammo, so i fed that through my revolvers.

Yes I do agree that the 10/22 is a more accurate rifle, but for a lightweight rifle that fits in an ammo can in the back of my jeep, this is perfect.

John

surplus-addict 09-26-2012 9:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1dude (Post 9398975)
The AR-7 is a jam-o-matic and not that accurate.

That would be the original Arma-lite and Charter Arms rifles. Low quality control, and cheap material.

Henry now makes an awesome AR-7, which doesn't jam much at all (not any more than an actual AR-15), is accurate, and is made to a very high standard with quality material.

I personally like the rifle, except for the fact that magazines are expensive and nobody makes reliable hi-caps for them.

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-n83ZS_RacX...AR-7-Rifle.jpg

k1dude 09-26-2012 9:25 AM

The AR-7 in all variants has been problematic, including the ones by Henry. Read the reviews. Handbuilt, if you've had that kind of performance, consider yourself very fortunate and hang on to that puppy.

Everyone was expecting great things from the new variant from Henry with the orange insert. But from reports, it's the same-o-lame-o.

The concept is a good one, the execution has been poor.

surplus-addict 09-26-2012 9:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1dude (Post 9400435)
The AR-7 in all variants has been problematic, including the ones by Henry. Read the reviews. Handbuilt, if you've had that kind of performance, consider yourself very fortunate and hang on to that puppy.

Everyone was expecting great things from the new variant from Henry with the orange insert. But from reports, it's the same-o-lame-o.

The concept is a good one, the execution has been poor.

You're kidding, right?

http://survivalcache.com/us-ar-7-survival-rifle-review/

http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...urvival-rifle/

From the article above.
Quote:

Reliability 4-Ĺ stars (out of 5)
The survival rifle functioned nearly flawlessly despite heavy rainfall which undoubtedly washed out all the lubrication carefully applied by its operator. Just be careful not to grip the magazine too tightly.
http://www.majorpandemic.com/2011/12...le-review.html

The only bad thing about this rifle is the occasional light hammer strike, but I believe that this is inherent to the design. The rifle is designed to have a polymer "barrel" and barrel steel liner inside of that, to save weight. That firing pin can start to really, REALLY screw up and mushroom that barrel liner if it is dry fired too many times. That's why the hammer is always low powered: it can't be too powerful as to start messing up the face of the barrel.

And it's not a big deal if you use fairly high quality ammo, because they normally have softer cases, and don't NEED a harder hammer strike. Remember: This is not a plinking rifle! It is a throw-it-in-your-trunk-or-backpack rifle! So the fact that it "requires" (without a mod) expensive ammuniton is of no consequence. If you want a plinking rifle buy a Ruger 10/22.

Also: High five. I learned a lot from this discussion :thumbsup:

44fred 09-26-2012 10:14 AM

Don't know why I keep seeing people write about the AR-7 being waterproof.
It is not waterproof! Yes it will float if dropped in the lake but water will make its way inside. Water resistant enough for most though.
Just saying.

surplus-addict 09-26-2012 10:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 44fred (Post 9400771)
Don't know why I keep seeing people write about the AR-7 being waterproof.
It is not waterproof! Yes it will float if dropped in the lake but water will make its way inside. Water resistant enough for most though.
Just saying.

1+
It's water RESISTANT. It WILL take on water, but it won't sink. But it'll be rusty if you don't get to it quick or coat it in a rust preventative ahead of time.

k1dude 09-26-2012 10:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surplus-addict (Post 9400664)

So you want to play that game? I can match your 2 positive reviews with 2 negatives and raise you another 2. It's a fools game.

The fact that there are so many negative reviews should tell you something. And one of your so-called positive reviews had a couple caveats - you can't grip the mag too tightly with the gun's most natural hand placement. Otherwise you'll get jams. And they had 5 or 6 jams using Remington even with a proper grip on the mag. So much for reliability. That doesn't sound very positive from one of your 2 positive reviews.

I suggest you do a search for Henry AR-7's right here on Calguns to find what the general consensus is. It ain't pretty.

surplus-addict 09-26-2012 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1dude (Post 9400979)
So you want to play that game? I can match your 2 positive reviews with 2 negatives and raise you another 2. It's a fools game.

The fact that there are so many negative reviews should tell you something. And one of your so-called positive reviews had a couple caveats - you can't grip the mag too tightly with the gun's most natural hand placement. Otherwise you'll get jams. And they had 5 or 6 jams using Remington DUH. That stuff won't even cycle in a bolt action :D
even with a proper grip on the mag. So much for reliability.
...Really? Have YOU gripped the mag in a firearm? Like saaaay a PPS-43? It causes a malfunction. It's the nature of the beast. Rule no.1: Don't grab the mag.

That doesn't sound very positive from one of your 2 positive reviews. Plus, uhhh... I posted 3 reviews. No bother though.

I suggest you do a search for Henry AR-7's right here on Calguns to find what the general consensus is. It ain't pretty.

Half the bad news I get when I search here is people griping about how they (they being the old ones in most cases) jam, how the gun doesn't shoot as well as their 10/22, or how it doesn't feed ultra-cheap ammo.

Of course it won't.

It's made for one purpose: to be a survival rifle. You put high quality ammunition into it, and it will run. End of story.

k1dude 09-26-2012 11:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by surplus-addict
Really? Have YOU gripped the mag in a firearm? Like saaaay a PPS-43? It causes a malfunction. It's the nature of the beast. Rule no.1: Don't grab the mag.

Yes, many firearms are actually designed to grip the mag. Many tactical techniques taught actually incorporate gripping the mag. And if the AR-7 won't work with the most natural hand placement, then it's a design flaw, not an operator flaw.

gun toting monkeyboy 09-26-2012 1:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by k1dude (Post 9398975)
The Marlin Papoose wins the contest IMHO. Too bad it isn't made anymore.

Where exactly did you get that idea? It is still listed on Marlin's websight. And I still see them in stores fairly often. They changed the model number a while back, when they went to the Stainless version. But as far as I can tell, they are still making them.

-Mb

uxo2 09-26-2012 1:20 PM

Funny...

I have never had a JAM in
my kids Crickett....:svengo:

And AR7's....I will never own one again.

CasperSYTFU 09-26-2012 1:32 PM

evolution you have some beautiful rifles there


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