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-   -   help me get a CA Machine gun Permit (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=608225)

boomer135 08-14-2012 2:28 PM

help me get a CA Machine gun Permit
 
So I am active duty military and own a machine gun (Yes I have the approved form 4)

Help me through the process of a CA machine gun permit, so I can take my MG with me to CA, instead of having to store it in my home state or Reno NV.

Cpl. Haas 08-14-2012 2:38 PM

Not gonna happen...

There are provisions for a Military Assault Weapons Permit that requires approval from your base commander... those only cover semi-auto rifles deemed "assault weapons" by CA DOJ. There is technically the Dangerous Weapons Permit... but that is not granted to individuals... only corporations w/FFLs and extremely good cause (Motion picture prop-houses being the bulk of them).

It's for the children... :rolleyes:

hermosabeach 08-14-2012 2:38 PM

Unless I am not aware of a military rule that makes this ok, the word is impossible

There are very very few permits issued in the state. The only people that have them are the hollywood prop companies. Part of the reason why airsoft and CG are becoming the norm for filming in CA

http://www.guntrustlawyer.com/2011/0...in-califo.html

The link takes you to a lawyers blog and a CA attorney you might wish to contact

hermosabeach 08-14-2012 2:46 PM

This forum http://subguns.com/boards/ has many listings and discussions on fun guns

It might help you find the right place to store your toys while stationed in CA

snook135 08-14-2012 9:37 PM

Yeah I have been reading up a lot and figured I would ask on here. Looks like storage in Reno for the auto and suppressors are gonna be the deal... Sucks total *** to drive 3 hours to just to get some trigger time. but it is what it is!

A Fatal Err 11-27-2012 2:13 PM

Not true. You should be allowed to take into CA any weapons with you as long as they are ok to use in your home state. I've had a few friends do this but I can't remember what forms off the top of my head. Google it

Novator 11-27-2012 3:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Fatal Err (Post 9801228)
Not true. You should be allowed to take into CA any weapons with you as long as they are ok to use in your home state. I've had a few friends do this but I can't remember what forms off the top of my head. Google it

Absolutely 100% incorrect. If it is illegal in CA, IT IS ILLEGAL IN CA! Machineguns are definitely not allowed for personal possesion. Semi-auto "assault weapons" used to be allowed with an MAWP which is now impossible to get.

ar15barrels 11-27-2012 3:20 PM

Military bases are generally federal land and federal laws trump state laws.
If your base commander and the armorers will sign off on it, I'm pretty sure you can store your personal NFA weapons in the base armory.
Then you should only need to do the nfa interstate travel notification form when you move them into and out of the base.
I don't think you would be able to use them outside of the base within the state of CA.

I doubt your base commander and armorer will sign off on it though.

stitch_paradox 11-27-2012 5:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar15barrels (Post 9801634)
Military bases are generally federal land and federal laws trump state laws.
If your base commander and the armorers will sign off on it, I'm pretty sure you can store your personal NFA weapons in the base armory.
Then you should only need to do the nfa interstate travel notification form when you move them into and out of the base.
I don't think you would be able to use them outside of the base within the state of CA.

I doubt your base commander and armorer will sign off on it though.

Are you military? While it might be true that military bases are federal land and etc etc, Base COs still want to adhere to CA laws. I don't know with Army or Airforce bases but with the Navy and USMC your weapon have to be CA Compliant when you register it.

Matt1984 11-27-2012 8:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stitch_paradox (Post 9802509)
Are you military? While it might be true that military bases are federal land and etc etc, Base COs still want to adhere to CA laws. I don't know with Army or Airforce bases but with the Navy and USMC your weapon have to be CA Compliant when you register it.

100% agreed it is the same for an army base, it has to be compliant for that state before it can be registered on post. There is no way a base commander would even entertain this kind of paperwork anyways. Plus even if he did the 30 other people before him who have to review it before it goes up the chain of command will reject it. Leave it at home and don't do anything your rank cant handle.

HelmandHunter 11-28-2012 10:30 PM

boomer, stationed in CamPen?

You can shoot me a call or text and we can talk offline.

Ryan 6122982800

A Fatal Err 11-29-2012 7:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novator (Post 9801549)
Absolutely 100% incorrect. If it is illegal in CA, IT IS ILLEGAL IN CA! Machineguns are definitely not allowed for personal possesion. Semi-auto "assault weapons" used to be allowed with an MAWP which is now impossible to get.

^100% Wrong

"Active-duty military members residing out of state and assigned to duty in California may bring personally-owned assault weapons into the state. The military member's residence must be in a state that permits private citizens to own and possess assault weapons, and the firearms must be registered with the California Department of Justice prior to the servicemember's arrival in California by submitting the registration form with a copy of the member's Permanent Change of Station (PCS) orders."

Although for automatic weapons you will need an AWP form to turn in.

Matt1984 11-29-2012 9:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Fatal Err (Post 9813039)
^100% Wrong

"Active-duty military members residing out of state and assigned to duty in California may bring personally-owned assault weapons into the state. The military member's residence must be in a state that permits private citizens to own and possess assault weapons, and the firearms must be registered with the California Department of Justice prior to the servicemember's arrival in California by submitting the registration form with a opy of the member's Permanent Change of Station (PCS) orders."

Although for automatic weapons you will need an AWP form to turn in.

This hands down is the worst form of a barracks lawyer, if anyone is dumb enough to listen to you on this topic their idiots. You are reading the CA law literally on this. I could do the same for CA CCW law but does it ever work out that way? No commander will sign off on this paper work for the base commander you know why slick? Probably not, and that is because you have never seen the paper work that goes along with this. It requires the commander to assume responsibility of this weapon and place it in their arms room. Ha you think a commander is going to allow that, you think they want to get the *** chewing from a base commander on why he has this paperwork in front of him? No. There might be a CA law but if you stop playing barracks lawyer go to your Base force protection office and look up the post regulation on weapons registration. I bet you it has something stating all personally owned weapons must be legal to own within the state. You probably should do a little more research before giving vague information

Saym14 11-29-2012 11:54 AM

What if it is disassembled and stored in sep containers?

Novator 11-29-2012 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saym14 (Post 9814508)
What if it is disassembled and stored in sep containers?

Under federal constuctive possesion laws even the parts required for FA weapons are themselves considered "machine guns." Though I don't know exactly, I can't imagine CA law being less restrictive.

Quote:

^100% Wrong

"Active-duty military members residing out of state and assigned to duty in California may bring personally-owned assault weapons into the state. The military member's residence must be in a state that permits private citizens to own and possess assault weapons, and the firearms must be registered with the California Department of Justice prior to the servicemember's arrival in California by submitting the registration form with a copy of the member's Permanent Change of Station (PCS) orders."
Again, completely wrong. Machine guns are not even "Assault Weapons" in CA they are "Dangerous Weapons" that require a permit that is impossible to get as a private citizen.

As has already been stated the military provision for personal "Assault Weapons" has been so drastically changed that it is basically impossible to get the permit as no base CO would take responsability for your actions with your weapons.

A Fatal Err 11-29-2012 12:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novator (Post 9814735)
Under federal constuctive possesion laws even the parts required for FA weapons are themselves considered "machine guns." Though I don't know exactly, I can't imagine CA law being less restrictive.



Again, completely wrong. Machine guns are not even "Assault Weapons" in CA they are "Dangerous Weapons" that require a permit that is impossible to get as a private citizen.

As has already been stated the military provision for personal "Assault Weapons" has been so drastically changed that it is basically impossible to get the permit as no base CO would take responsability for your actions with your weapons.

You should probably read what I write more carefully. I did state that you would need a DWP (Dangerous Weapons Permit if you couldn't figure that out) but he stated that he is already in the Military so in order to get an Assault Weapons Permit it really is not that hard as long as he is bringing in a gun that is allowed from his home state. If he is going to bring a machine gun he has to have the DWP. Plus who is playing barracks lawyer? My state of residence is Illinois. Have I brought my own AR with evil features and no bullet button to California? Yes. Have I filled out the AWP, Yes. Is it 100% legal, yes. But no I do not keep my weapons on base because I would have to keep them in the Armory which is stupid. I keep them at my house in CA. But do I have friends who keep their weapons in the armory, Yes I do.

A Fatal Err 11-29-2012 1:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saym14 (Post 9814508)
What if it is disassembled and stored in sep containers?

Penal Code § 12220
includes any frame or receiver of a machinegun and any part or combination of parts designed and intended for use

Novator 11-29-2012 1:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Fatal Err (Post 9814956)
You should probably read what I write more carefully. I did state that you would need a DWP (Dangerous Weapons Permit if you couldn't figure that out) but he stated that he is already in the Military so in order to get an Assault Weapons Permit it really is not that hard as long as he is bringing in a gun that is allowed from his home state. If he is going to bring a machine gun he has to have the DWP. Plus who is playing barracks lawyer? My state of residence is Illinois. Have I brought my own AR with evil features and no bullet button to California? Yes. Have I filled out the AWP, Yes. Is it 100% legal, yes. But no I do not keep my weapons on base because I would have to keep them in the Armory which is stupid. I keep them at my house in CA. But do I have friends who keep their weapons in the armory, Yes I do.

If you have a MAWP currently then you must be really buddy buddy with your base CO or he is willing to lie for you. I investigated this when I PCSd into CA in 2010. The current MAWP requires:
Quote:

Official letter signed by the applicant’s Base Commander, establishing that a bona fide necessity exists for use of personal assault weapons in military sanctioned activities. The letter must include a current telephone number for the Base Commander’s office.
The same letter is required for annual renewal in addition to:
Quote:

Completed copy of Report of Use of Personal Assault Weapons in Military Sanctioned Activities (BOF 047)
Again, I see no way that any CO would sign the letter as there is no way that a servicemember would ever need a personal "assault weapon" for a military purpose.

Matt1984 11-29-2012 2:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Novator (Post 9815141)
If you have a MAWP currently then you must be really buddy buddy with your base CO or he is willing to lie for you. I investigated this when I PCSd into CA in 2010. The current MAWP requires:

The same letter is required for annual renewal in addition to:

Again, I see no way that any CO would sign the letter as there is no way that a servicemember would ever need a personal "assault weapon" for a military purpose.

Yea I'm raising the bull**** flag on this one too, to the op do what your rank can handle plain and simple or check with your chain of command. When push comes to shove your defense of I got the info off Calguns probably won't fly

HelmandHunter 11-29-2012 2:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Fatal Err (Post 9814956)
You should probably read what I write more carefully. I did state that you would need a DWP (Dangerous Weapons Permit if you couldn't figure that out) but he stated that he is already in the Military so in order to get an Assault Weapons Permit it really is not that hard as long as he is bringing in a gun that is allowed from his home state. If he is going to bring a machine gun he has to have the DWP. Plus who is playing barracks lawyer? My state of residence is Illinois. Have I brought my own AR with evil features and no bullet button to California? Yes. Have I filled out the AWP, Yes. Is it 100% legal, yes. But no I do not keep my weapons on base because I would have to keep them in the Armory which is stupid. I keep them at my house in CA. But do I have friends who keep their weapons in the armory, Yes I do.

FATAL -

How long have you been stationed here? Are you in Camp Pendleton? I was the first Marine to attempt a registry of a Semi-Automatic AW here after the rule change requiring the Base Commanders letter. You are misinformed on CamPen BO 5000.2k-2l and the like by even mentioning that upon registry a SA AW would have to be stored in the base armory. The problem is that you are speaking without fully knowing what you are talking about, and that is DANGEROUS. Other Jr. Marines could read this thread and be misinformed, which in turn could be a detriment to their legal well-being.

MATT is 100% correct. The current base admin will not sign off on a letter that states "A bona fide necessity exists for the use of personally owned assault weapons in sanctioned military activities". To insinuate that they would even consider a FA weapon is completely false. Go talk to base legal, then base PMO on mainside.

When I have more time I could post the base orders on weapons. I consider myself well-versed on firearms issues, as I am also a CCW and weapons instructor for Marines here on base. I also teach CA compliance IAW the Fed, state and local laws.

Librarian, Kestryll, or one of the Calguns veterans is likely to thrash you for posting such nonsense.

Matt1984 11-29-2012 2:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelmandHunter (Post 9815656)
FATAL -

How long have you been stationed here? Are you in Camp Pendleton? I was the first Marine to attempt a registry of a Semi-Automatic AW here after the rule change requiring the Base Commanders letter. You are misinformed on CamPen BO 5000.2k-2l and the like by even mentioning that upon registry a SA AW would have to be stored in the base armory. The problem is that you are speaking without fully knowing what you are talking about, and that is DANGEROUS. Other Jr. Marines could read this thread and be misinformed, which in turn could be a detriment to their legal well-being.

MATT is 100% correct. The current base admin will not sign off on a letter that states "A bona fide necessity exists for the use of personally owned assault weapons in sanctioned military activities". To insinuate that they would even consider a FA weapon is completely false. Go talk to base legal, then base PMO on mainside.

When I have more time I could post the base orders on weapons. I consider myself well-versed on firearms issues, as I am also a CCW and weapons instructor for Marines here on base. I also teach CA compliance IAW the Fed, state and local laws.

Librarian, Kestryll, or one of the Calguns veterans is likely to thrash you for posting such nonsense.

Good job, I hope this fellow service gets with you offline so you can instruct him on what the proper regs are. I would hate to see someone lose rank or their career for misleading or misunderstood information. In the end it's not worth it

Novator 11-29-2012 3:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Matt1984 (Post 9815727)
Good job, I hope this fellow service gets with you offline so you can instruct him on what the proper regs are. I would hate to see someone lose rank or their career for misleading or misunderstood information. In the end it's not worth it

Agreed, keeping my junior sailors in line is hard enough normally. I can't imagine having to deal with one of them inadvertently commiting a felony because of what some yahoo told them was legal on the internet.

A Fatal Err 11-30-2012 2:19 AM

I've been at CampPen for over 5 years and I know what the rules are. It's really not that hard. I talked to my Capt, he talked to my Bn Co. who then wrote a letter to the BC. For you to quickly bash someone just because maybe you haven't done it is just plain stupid. As far as the "A bona fide necessity exists for the use of personally owned assault weapons in sanctioned military activities" goes, you can participate in a number of events such as our 3 gun events and other things the Marines have.

But no, I must be making up the fact that I LEGALLY have my AR with it's evil features registered to the state of california...as well as a number of my other friends.

A Fatal Err 11-30-2012 2:20 AM

I've been at CampPen for over 5 years and I know what the rules are. It's really not that hard. I talked to my Capt, he talked to my Bn Co. who then wrote a letter to the BC. For you to quickly bash someone just because maybe you haven't done it is just plain stupid. As far as the "A bona fide necessity exists for the use of personally owned assault weapons in sanctioned military activities" goes, you can participate in a number of events such as our 3 gun events and other things the Marines have.

But no, I must be making up the fact that I LEGALLY have my AR with it's evil features registered to the state of california...as well as a number of my other friends.

Novator 11-30-2012 7:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by A Fatal Err (Post 9819859)
I've been at CampPen for over 5 years and I know what the rules are. It's really not that hard. I talked to my Capt, he talked to my Bn Co. who then wrote a letter to the BC. For you to quickly bash someone just because maybe you haven't done it is just plain stupid. As far as the "A bona fide necessity exists for the use of personally owned assault weapons in sanctioned military activities" goes, you can participate in a number of events such as our 3 gun events and other things the Marines have.

But no, I must be making up the fact that I LEGALLY have my AR with it's evil features registered to the state of california...as well as a number of my other friends.

1. Up until now you have basically stated that it is easy and everyone could get one no problem. Given our responses, if you do indeed have one it should be clear that you are the exception not the rule.

2. Until we brought it up you mentioned nothing about a base CO letter.

3. I highly doubt that CADOJ views optional 3 gun competitions as "A bona fide necessity" If your base commander assumed that risk then lucky you. Granted I still find that difficult to believe that you are the only servicemember I've heard from that still has a MAWP after the changes in late 2010 especially given the plethora of CG members that we must have stationed at Camp Pendleton.

gunsmithcats 11-30-2012 4:14 PM

Yep, mine expired last year cause ni way in hell I could get a renewal.

Quiet 11-30-2012 5:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boomer135 (Post 9128517)
So I am active duty military and own a machine gun (Yes I have the approved form 4)

Help me through the process of a CA machine gun permit, so I can take my MG with me to CA, instead of having to store it in my home state or Reno NV.

Like the others have stated, it's not going to happen.

For a MG, you need a Dangerous Weapons Permit for a MG.

In order to get approved for one, you need a "good cause".
Personal use is not an approved "good cause".
Only thing I can think of that may get approved as a "good cause", is that your Base Commander and Commanding Officer give written statements that say something to the effect that you need it for official military use.

Also, be advised that Dangerous Weapons Permit holders have special restrictions that they must adhere to.

Such as paying an initial permit fee ($371), paying an annual renewal fee ($165 for one MG), registering all the locations that the MG will be stored, registering all the vehicles that will transport the MG and being subject to CA DOJ BOF inspection audits.

Also, keep in mind...
Not renewing permit = confiscation of MG
Storing the MG in a non-registered location = revocation of permit & confiscation of MG
Transporting the MG in a non-registered vehicle = revocation of permit & confiscation of MG
Using the MG in a method that is beyond the scope of your good cause = revocation of permit & confiscation of MG

It's not worth the $$$$ and headaches to try and bring your MG into CA.
Store it outside of CA and go visit it when on leave.

HelmandHunter 11-30-2012 6:00 PM

FATAL

Heres how you clear this up. Take a picture of your base authorization letter, line out your name and post it. I am interested in seeing Col Marano's or Bgen Coglianese's signature on a document that states you are authorized the use of Personally owned AW's for "sanctioned military activities". They don't interpret 3-gun and competitions as a sanctioned military activity. They feel as if they are lying to the state about you using personal weapons for "official" training. You state that I haven't done it? I have had the endorsement of another 0-6 (Colonel) "Forwarded, recommending approval" on my written request for the permit.

The base issued a letter, CA rejected it based on insufficient justification. The base refused to issue a letter with that language based on liability to the base. The top enlisted and officers explicitly told me that they will reject future attempts at obtaining and renewing these permits.

I have notified Congressman Issa, and consulted with attorneys. I guarantee you, I am better informed on this than you, and thats for your education, not for d*ck measuring. If you received this permit by some unusual circumstance, you are the exception to the rule and will probably be denied upon renewal attempt. But this started in 2010 and renewal is yearly, so you should know this already, yes?

At Calguns, this is a a tight knit-online community of gun owners that face more adversity than most in the U.S. just trying to exercise their 2D Amendment right. There are many very well informed members here that are well versed in CA law that wish to educate the newer members and CA residents. Your skewed perception of the law doesn't become reality based on your interpretation alone. Why don't you pose questions instead of TELLING all of us we are wrong?

You are a Sgt with A Co. 1st Recon Battalion?

A Fatal Err 11-30-2012 6:34 PM

Unfortunately for you I am currently deployed with the 15th Meu and won't be back until May 2013. So if you want to wait until then, I can get you your pictures.

HelmandHunter 11-30-2012 7:17 PM

FATAL,

I hope you didn't just take that post as a challenge on this letter that you have. We are all trying to put this into perspective for you and the other guys reading this as a "how-to". Be advised on the problem you will undoubtedly have when returning to CONUS at maintaining your weapon.

Good luck on the float.

Ron-Solo 11-30-2012 8:50 PM

And supressors are not even eligible for a dw permit.

Matt1984 11-30-2012 8:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelmandHunter (Post 9825249)
FATAL,

I hope you didn't just take that post as a challenge on this letter that you have. We are all trying to put this into perspective for you and the other guys reading this as a "how-to". Be advised on the problem you will undoubtedly have when returning to CONUS at maintaining your weapon.

Good luck on the float.

Well said man outstanding post(s) that well represented this community and service members, I hope he is not lying about anything and I hope that if he is lying he refrains from digging himself in Deeper hole

A Fatal Err 12-01-2012 2:40 AM

Ill post it in 6 months or so! lol

boomer135 12-02-2012 3:21 PM

sorry all I lost my Login and am now Boomer135 not snook135...

I pretty much just gave up. And even ruled out the storage in Reno... I just amended my Trust for storage in another location in Florida. Oh well. my MG's can sit in a safe and just keep going up in value.

boomer135 12-02-2012 3:21 PM

sorry all I lost my Login and am now Boomer135 not snook135...

I pretty much just gave up. And even ruled out the storage in Reno... I just amended my Trust for storage in another location in Florida. Oh well. my MG's can sit in a safe and just keep going up in value.

boomer135 12-02-2012 3:26 PM

Sorry for the double post, BTW the AWP wouldn't work for me, as we aren't able to use our personal weapons, for "sanctioned military activities" we have to use what is issued to us. With the weapons that are issued to us, we can modify them at our own cost such as optics, rails, grips etc. The armory keeps them in that configuration for when we need them.

HelmandHunter 12-02-2012 3:49 PM

BOOMER,

If it were up to me, I would let you mount a 240B on a lazyboy in your living-room. Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do about the MG coming to CA/CampPen.

Also what you posted about your own rails, optics etc. Some units allow quite a bit of flexibility, but many in the "big Marine corps" are facist when it comes to any personal mods. I've even heard of furniture being complained about! You also have to worry about your sh*t being robbed by an "Armorer's assistant".

boomer135 12-02-2012 6:11 PM

Yup! I don't store peacetime in the Armory with my optics. we have all heard horror stories. Lucky with some of the quick detach mounts of today, you can still hold a close zero.

Just decided to leave the good stuff back in FL, and play with loud non suppressed semi auto's in my free time...LOL

Quote:

Originally Posted by HelmandHunter (Post 9836583)
BOOMER,

If it were up to me, I would let you mount a 240B on a lazyboy in your living-room. Unfortunately, there is nothing you can do about the MG coming to CA/CampPen.

Also what you posted about your own rails, optics etc. Some units allow quite a bit of flexibility, but many in the "big Marine corps" are facist when it comes to any personal mods. I've even heard of furniture being complained about! You also have to worry about your sh*t being robbed by an "Armorer's assistant".


HelmandHunter 12-02-2012 7:10 PM

If you are located on base and need any assistance with anything you can shoot me a call or text. 612 298 2800

boomer135 12-02-2012 10:14 PM

much appreciated, I am stationed at Travis.


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