Calguns.net

Calguns.net (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/index.php)
-   Ammo and Reloading (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=89)
-   -   OFFICAL 458 Socom reloading thread! (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=604257)

Quinc 08-04-2012 9:20 PM

OFFICAL 458 Socom reloading thread!
 
Finally bought an RRA CAR upper and now I need some loads! So I thought I would start thread. I am going to post all the info I have saved off other forums and hopefully we can get some 458 Socom reloaders here.

Use loads at your own risk!! I have not personally used these yet!

Barnes 600 gr RN

bullet is 1.600" long
RE7 22gr
OAL with the 600 gr RN is 2.255


525gr pile driver with gas check. 540gr total

RE-7 24.6gr
CCI 350 Primer
OAL 2.085
Very light crimp (LEE FCD)

Velocity:
1. 1079 fps
2. 1074 fps

Avg. 1076 fps

Notes: Recoil NOT harsh, good hard “push”.


RE-7 26.0 grs.
CCI 350 Primer
OAL 2.085
Very light crimp (LEE FCD)

Velocity:
1. 1140 fps
2. 1142 fps
3. 1151 fps

Avg. 1144 fps

Notes: Noticeably “sharp” recoil impulse compared to lighter load.

So far the most accurate load is...

IMR4198 25.2gr
CCI 350
No crimp
OAL=2.125


BERRY 350 GR COPPER PLATED BULLET

LIL GUN
28grs
OAL 2.085 MAX

H110
29gr
OAL 2.085
SHOT GROUP 3 INCHES AT 50 YRDS

IMR 4198
34grs.
OAL 2.085.
SHOT GROUP 1-2 INCHES AT 50 YRDS





http://i.imgur.com/kibom.jpg

Quinc 08-04-2012 10:40 PM

http://www.reloadammo.com/458-socom.htm

Quote:

(Note: Many are near maximum loads, you should use 10% less to start.)
(See note on Powders below or read all about various Powders.)
Bullet is .458" diameter. Due to different barrel lengths, type of bullet, seating depth, primer type and other factors, you may not get near the FPS charted. It is just a guide and the reason you should start under these charges and work up.

----------------------------------------
300 Barnes X
Lil'Gun 32.8 gr. 1,886
----------------------------------------
300 Remington JHP
Lil'Gun 29.5 gr. 1,745
Lil'Gun 30.5 gr. 1,788
Lil'Gun 32.0 gr. 1,854
Lil'Gun 34.6 gr. 1,985 (very hot load)
H-110 34.8 gr. 1,645
W-296 33.5 gr. 1,772
H-4198 40.2 gr. 1,756
----------------------------------------
325 Hornady FTX
IMR-4198 38.6 gr. 1,593
H-4198 38.8 gr. 1,604
Lil'Gun (use between 28.5 gr. and 30.0 gr. for ~1,700-1,800 fps category)
----------------------------------------
(note: Matt's Bullets makes a 365 Grain Lead, Round Flat Nose + Gas Check (.458)
that should be experimented with if the flat nose does not create a feed problem)
----------------------------------------
405 Remington JFP
Lil'Gun 28.9 gr. 1,594
H-110 34.4 gr. 1,657
HS-6 14.5 gr. 1,086 (quiet with a suppressor)
W-296 32.5 gr. 1,585
----------------------------------------
420 Lead Cast RNFP + Gas Check
Lil'Gun 28.0 gr. 1,602
Lil'Gun 28.8 gr. 1,635
----------------------------------------
500 Hornady RN
IMR-4198 26.4 gr. 1,066
-----------------------------------------

Discussion: * Most magnum pistol powders can be used as well as some rifle powders. The somewhat faster pistol powders are preferable for the lighter 300 grain range bullets, while slower burning powders work better with the heavy weights. However, case capacity can become an issue with bulky rifle powders. If I can find some loads with 2400, that might be a good experiment.

Hodgdon's Powder Guide on line and other internet sources. There is still a lot of experimenting with loads and blogs as of 2012 are the best source. You can back off loads. They may not work the action of the upper rifle, but you can work up in .2 grain increments to find what is best.

rromeo 08-05-2012 2:05 AM

Thanks. I don't have a thumper yet, but after looking at the Beowulf, Bushmaster, and SOCOM, I keep leaning towards SOCOM.

Noah 08-11-2012 11:29 AM

I have a barrel on order from wilson combat. Also some brass and dies on the way. So I am glad to see this thread start. I will definitely post up once I get some loads made and tested.
Noah
Also anyone who has ordered the lee fc die.. I was wondering if it matters what bullet the dummy has seated in it? What exactly is lee looking at when you send them the dummy? If it just the trim length of the brass? Anything else?

Quinc 08-11-2012 12:07 PM

Best deal on bullets I can find are the Berrys 350gr platted and the 405gr gas checked. I am still trying to find some load data for the 405gr gas checked.

Anyone have any tips/info on coming up with your own load data. Starting powder / OAL etc?

Quinc 08-13-2012 1:45 PM

405gr Remmy bullets
http://www.teppojutsu.com/downloads/...oad_405_sp.pdf

Rusty Scabbard 08-13-2012 11:38 PM

Just got started
 
Reloaded SBR brass cases this weekend.
WLP primers
300 gr Sierra JHP
30 gr Lil' Gun
Then tried another batch with 31.2 gr Lil' Gun

All expended cases looked OK, but I had a bit of trouble getting consistent seating and correct OAL, especially with the first batch. Seating too deep definitely increases pressures. Worst case was one with 30 gr Lil' Gun, with OAL 1.994. Primer was flat but the case looked OK.
Groups were marginal (about 4"), I assume largely due to the different seating depths.

A few questions for the pro's and gurus here:
I'm using Redding dies. I couldn't get consistent seat depths. (+/-0.020") Can you get different seating inserts for the dies ? Am I better off with different projectiles ? The soft lead of the exposed JHP tips may have imperfections or diameter variation.

I could see a definite firing pin imprint after rounds were chambered. Are CCI350's harder than WLP ? Anyone have a favorite primer recommendation for this round ?

Is there a bullet puller that works with the reduced base dia. of this round ? Mine can't grip them.

Thanks in advance for any help !

Noah 08-19-2012 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rusty Scabbard (Post 9125358)
Is there a bullet puller that works with the reduced base dia. of this round ? Mine can't grip them.

I know others have taken a dremel to the one side of the little pie pieces that grab the rim, opened them up where the case is hitting and made it work. I am not sure if there is a puller that works out of the box but would like to know as well.

Noah

P.S. I am not sure if you are already aware, but I understand that if you are seeing pressure signs like the flatened primers then you have exceeded the max pressure of the .458 socom.

Warning for any who are unaware:
The .458 socom is designed to be a relatively low pressure and has some unique issues when hand loading.
I was totally unaware of this until I really started searching out load data online, and came across several experianced .458s guys urging caution.
A couple of quotes that stuck out to me.
Quote:

When reading pressure signs the job is easy. You DON'T. The SOCOM uses large pistol primers. The maximum pressure for the .458 S as well as the Beowulf is 35K. By the time you see any pressure signs you are WAY over the 35K psi limit. Stick to established data. Forget the notion that you can load until you see the primers flatten and then back off a little. That will still put you about 8,000 psi over the maximum pressures allowable.
AND
Quote:

On a serious note, for ANYBODY reloading for the 458S: ANY Pressure Signs means your in dangerous territory and back off!

Quinc 08-19-2012 1:01 PM

I keep reading that the 458S shoots up to 600gr bullets. Anyone have a source for 600gr bullets? I cant find any. :(

Noah 08-19-2012 7:35 PM

Barnes made a 600gr in the barnes "Original"... however I do not see it listed on their webpage, possibly it has been discontinued. MidwayUSA has a few 550s.
I haven't seen any 600s on the sites I buy components from.
I would think a hard cast 600 should be available somewhere but I don't see any when I search.
Noah

Quinc 08-21-2012 5:37 PM

What do you guys think about cast bullets? Gas checks or no? I am thinking about giving the LAsercast bullets a try.
http://www.laser-cast.com/AboutLaserCast.html
As always, your satisfaction GUARANTEED or you money back
No leading
Slick Silver Bearing Alloy yields highest velocities of all Extreme accuracy

Noah 08-22-2012 7:48 AM

Their 405gr looks like a winner for larger game(butte county bears). Their prices look great too if their special alloy lives up to the hardness claims and lack of leading. Thanks for the link, I plan on putting plenty of lead through mine.
Are there any special issues/considerations with the .459 diameter?

Quinc 08-22-2012 2:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noah (Post 9179609)
Their 405gr looks like a winner for larger game(butte county bears). Their prices look great too if their special alloy lives up to the hardness claims and lack of leading. Thanks for the link, I plan on putting plenty of lead through mine.
Are there any special issues/considerations with the .459 diameter?

Everything I have been reading say to go with .459 in RRA uppers and .458 with Marty's uppers.

Speaking of bears we have them getting in our trash constantly...

Noah 08-23-2012 5:17 AM

Quinc,
Can you expand on what you know about .458 vs .459. I need to put in a call to Wilson Combat and find out how closely their specs are to a Marty barrel vs a RRA. Do you know where the differences are? Is it just in the chamber, or the bore, or both? I would really like to give those 405s a try but don't want any issues. I am guessing they will fire through a Marty barrel just at the risk of bumping up to higher/unsafe pressures?

Noah

P.S. Sorry to hear about your bear trouble, It has been a bad year for that with the poor snow pack. Luckily we are low enough in elevation that we don't see them around our place... have had a few incidents from our friendly neighborhood mountian lion though.

Quinc 08-23-2012 9:21 PM

I've read on a couple different forums about the teppo uppers being cut tighter at exactly .458 and the RRA uppers being at .459. I will post more info if I come across the threads again.

Noah 11-08-2012 7:45 AM

Update for socom reloaders:
LEE Factory Crimp Die is no longer a custom order item. Its not in their catalog but can be found here for $25.
http://leeprecision.com/458-socom-cu...crimp-die.html

TygerAR 11-13-2012 12:55 AM

I've been looking into the Wilson Setup. I really like the 14.7 inch setup. How many rounds are you fitting into a 10 round (or 10/30) Mag? I think the standard mag is 7 or 8 ?

dholla 11-13-2012 7:09 AM

You can get about 3-4 in a 10 round mag, and 9-10 in a 30 round mag.

Noah 11-14-2012 6:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TygerAR (Post 9713570)
I've been looking into the Wilson Setup. I really like the 14.7 inch setup. How many rounds are you fitting into a 10 round (or 10/30) Mag? I think the standard mag is 7 or 8 ?

Your timing couldn,t be better.
per wilsons web site "Temporarily Out of Stock, Expected 11/15/12"
I have been waiting on my order since july. If you are serious I wouldn't wait. Last time I spoke with someone at wilson they said getting barrel blanks was not easy for them as the industry is totally swampped, and I am sure it will only get worse.
The kits to build yourself are pretty reasonable price wise.

Quinc 11-14-2012 9:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noah (Post 9720436)
Your timing couldn,t be better.
per wilsons web site "Temporarily Out of Stock, Expected 11/15/12"
I have been waiting on my order since july. If you are serious I wouldn't wait. Last time I spoke with someone at wilson they said getting barrel blanks was not easy for them as the industry is totally swampped, and I am sure it will only get worse.
The kits to build yourself are pretty reasonable price wise.

Took me just over 2 months just to get an RRA upper. So yes, put in your order now if you want one. And make sure you buy brass the first chance you get it.

rudynix 01-06-2013 11:28 AM

I loaded some test loads for my Wilson Combat 458 SOCOM and had a chance to test them out last weekend. Specs are below:

Starline brass
CCI350 Primers
Hornady 325gr FTX bullets
Hodgdons H110 powder
COAL 2.25

Loaded 45 rounds in sets of 5 from 29.0 grains to 33.0 grains in 0.5 grain increments. I didn't see any pressure signs until I started shooting the 32.0 grain rounds. I stopped at 32.5 grains of powder. The 31.0 grain loads seemed to give me the best accuracy (1 1/2" group), with no pressure signs, and chronographed at 1690 fps. I'm still perfecting this load, so my next step will be to load up some more in 0.2 garin increments starting at 30.0 grains to 32.0 grains, but will seat down to 2.230" COAL.

Quinc 01-06-2013 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudynix (Post 10126798)
I loaded some test loads for my Wilson Combat 458 SOCOM and had a chance to test them out last weekend. Specs are below:

Starline brass
CCI350 Primers
Hornady 325gr FTX bullets
Hodgdons H110 powder
COAL 2.25

Loaded 45 rounds in sets of 5 from 29.0 grains to 33.0 grains in 0.5 grain increments. I didn't see any pressure signs until I started shooting the 32.0 grain rounds. I stopped at 32.5 grains of powder. The 31.0 grain loads seemed to give me the best accuracy (1 1/2" group), with no pressure signs, and chronographed at 1690 fps. I'm still perfecting this load, so my next step will be to load up some more in 0.2 garin increments starting at 30.0 grains to 32.0 grains, but will seat down to 2.230" COAL.

Next time you go out find the biggest jug you can and fill it full of water and shoot it. I shot a 5gal bucket with that bullet and it lifted the bucket about 10ft in the air. :D

Noah 01-06-2013 11:41 PM

rudynix,
What length barrel do you have? and have you had to make any adjustment to the gas block on that WC setup?
Noah

ps. careful with your pressure, sounds like those 32+ loads may be really hot.

rudynix 01-07-2013 5:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noah (Post 10133539)
rudynix,
What length barrel do you have? and have you had to make any adjustment to the gas block on that WC setup?
Noah

ps. careful with your pressure, sounds like those 32+ loads may be really hot.

The barrel lenght is 16" carbine. So far I have not had to adjust the gasblock on any of the rounds I've put through it. The 32.0 grain loads started showing some primer flattenning, but not extreme. The 32.5 grain cases started showing some bolt swipes and more primer flattening. I didn't bother to shoot the 33.0 grain loads because I felt I was probably past the max load with the 32.5 grain loads. Yeah, I agree, the loads above 32 grains are definitely hot, so my next test loads will be between 30.0 to 31.0 grains in .2 grain incriments.

Noah 01-07-2013 9:29 PM

Cool, I saw the pics of your WC setup in another thread... Very nice, I hope my build will come out half as good as your upper.
Anyways, I am getting ready to start working up some loads as well(been waiting 7 mo for my WC barrel and upper, It shipped last friday so I should have it any day now). So I am glad to see some activity in this thread I will post up my load recipies as soon as I start. I will probably be starting with lilgun so hopefully this thread will grow more from here on out.
Happy shootin'
Noah

rudynix 01-08-2013 6:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noah (Post 10142662)
Cool, I saw the pics of your WC setup in another thread... Very nice, I hope my build will come out half as good as your upper.
Anyways, I am getting ready to start working up some loads as well(been waiting 7 mo for my WC barrel and upper, It shipped last friday so I should have it any day now). So I am glad to see some activity in this thread I will post up my load recipies as soon as I start. I will probably be starting with lilgun so hopefully this thread will grow more from here on out.
Happy shootin'
Noah

I can only imagine your excitement! Seeing that email from Wilson letting me know that the upper shipped and due to arrive on 24 December, 2012 made me feel like a kid waiting for Christmas. I placed the order for that upper on the 3rd of July. I hope you enjoy that 458 SOCOM as much as I do mine.;)

Quinc 01-08-2013 6:31 PM

I got my 458 Socom bolt Microslicked from the vendor here gregchico. You guys might want to check into it. It also really helps with cleaning! :D

Quote:

Micro Slick's formulation prevents surface-to-surface contact, thus reducing friction and wear between mating surfaces. The exceptional low resistant to shear enables the Micro Slick coated surface to operate with extremely low friction.
http://www.nicindustries.com/dry_film_lubricants.php

Noah 01-08-2013 9:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rudynix (Post 10150676)
I can only imagine your excitement! Seeing that email from Wilson letting me know that the upper shipped and due to arrive on 24 December, 2012 made me feel like a kid waiting for Christmas. I placed the order for that upper on the 3rd of July. I hope you enjoy that 458 SOCOM as much as I do mine.;)

LOL, I think UPS may ban my ip for over use of checking a single tracking number.


Quinc, I see that the microslick vendors name is gregchico, is that gregchico as in Chico.... local, no shipping?

Quinc 01-08-2013 9:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noah (Post 10152694)
Quinc, I see that the microslick vendors name is gregchico, is that gregchico as in Chico.... local, no shipping?

Greg is a great guy and lives a few minutes from the Claypits. Shoot him a pm or email next time you head out.

Quinc 01-11-2013 1:28 PM

I have 500 of the Rem 405gr bullets for sale if anyone is interested:
http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=676477

Noah 01-25-2013 2:27 PM

OK so here are my first loads I have put togeather this mourning.
Not sure what day I will make it out with the chrono to test them.
This is my first time loading a round that isn't in any of my loading manuals so I would appriciate if others would give them a look over and make sure nothing looks out of wack.
Thanks calgunners
Noah
I am using redding dies
Starline brass
cc350 primers
cases trimmed to 1.575
lee FCD
Bullet - Bullet Weight - Powder - Charge Weight - Primer - COAL

Hornady FTX 325 Reloader 7 34.5 CCI350 2.205
Hornady FTX 325 Reloader 7 35 CCI350 2.205
Hornady FTX 325 Reloader 7 35.5 CCI350 2.205
Hornady FTX 325 Reloader 7 36 CCI350 2.205
Hornady FTX 325 Lil Gun 27 CCI350 2.205
Hornady FTX 325 Lil Gun 27.5 CCI350 2.205
Hornady FTX 325 Lil Gun 28 CCI350 2.205
Hornady FTX 325 Lil Gun 28.5 CCI350 2.205
Hornady FTX 325 Lil Gun 29 CCI350 2.205
Hornady JHP 300 Lil Gun 29 CCI350 2.02
Hornady JHP 300 Lil Gun 29.5 CCI350 2.02
Hornady JHP 300 Lil Gun 30 CCI350 2.02
Hornady JHP 300 Lil Gun 30.5 CCI350 2.02
Hornady JHP 300 Lil Gun 31 CCI350 2.02
Hornady JHP 300 Reloader 7 42 CCI350 2.02
Hornady JHP 300 Reloader 7 42.5 CCI350 2.02
Hornady JHP 300 Reloader 7 43 CCI350 2.02
Hornady JHP 300 Reloader 7 43.5 CCI350 2.02
Hornady JHP 300 Reloader 7 44 CCI350 2.02
Barnes TTSX 300 Lil Gun 24.5 CCI350 2.255
Barnes TTSX 300 Lil Gun 25 CCI350 2.255
Barnes TTSX 300 Lil Gun 25.5 CCI350 2.255
Barnes TTSX 300 Lil Gun 26 CCI350 2.255
Barnes TTSX 300 Lil Gun 26.5 CCI350 2.255
Barnes TTSX 300 Reloader 7 35 CCI350 2.255
Barnes TTSX 300 Reloader 7 35.5 CCI350 2.255
Barnes TTSX 300 Reloader 7 36 CCI350 2.255
Barnes TTSX 300 Reloader 7 36.5 CCI350 2.255
Barnes TTSX 300 Reloader 7 37 CCI350 2.255

Noah 01-28-2013 11:54 AM

Anyone?

... also if anyone knows where I might find some bullets in stock online... I have tried midway, cabellas, CtD, and several others that google offered up.... everywhere is out of stock of the TTSX and other popular socom bullets.
Thanks
Noah

Quinc 01-28-2013 2:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noah (Post 10346896)
Anyone?

... also if anyone knows where I might find some bullets in stock online... I have tried midway, cabellas, CtD, and several others that google offered up.... everywhere is out of stock of the TTSX and other popular socom bullets.
Thanks
Noah

I might be able to help you out. I have Rem 405gr and 300gr bullets.

mach1269 01-28-2013 4:29 PM

Hi guys. I'm the new kid on the block. I ordered a 458 upper from RRA last month and I'm not so patiently waiting for it to ship. I don't suppose any of you know typical time frames at this time? I did see Quinc post his 2 month, but I've also seen 6 month posts. I suck at waiting, lol. I am also new to the world of reloading as I can't afford $3 a round prices on my beer budget. Best places to get supplies? I have a Lee single stage press and a scale, but will need the dies, brass, bullets, primers, and powder. I have a buddy that I'm gonna get to train me and he can probably help with most of that, but anything specific to 458 seems to be hard to find in bulk. Sorry for the novel and thanks for any assistance.

Noah 01-28-2013 6:28 PM

mach1269,
be sure to get a loading manual. It wont have 458 socom recipes in it but it will have all of the fundamental process step for reloading and is a must have. Also you will need a tumbler to clean your brass. I recomend Imperial sizing wax for resizing lube on the socom, the brass needs a good full lube job to be sure you dont get a case stuck in the resizing die. You will also need some other basic case prep tools for trimming to length, chamfering, beburring, etc.
As far as supplies, you wont find many bullets in bulk quantities for the 458 caliber other than cast lead and maybe some basic hollow points. As far as where to get stuff I usually use Midway, but there are many choices online if you can't find stuff local. Cabellas, cheaper than dirt, etc. Don't worry about getting everything asap cuz you will be waiting a while for that RRA. The industry is slammed right now and I have heard manufacturers are having a very difficult time getting 458 barrel blanks. I ordered mine before the panic and still waited over 6 months.
Good luck with everything and be sure to get plenty familiar with the reloading process with your buddy on some more common rounds before you start working on socom loads.

Noah

Noah 01-28-2013 6:30 PM

Also get yourself a Lee Factory crimp die. It is the only way to go with many of the bullets where you cannot seat to the crimp groove of the bullet

mach1269 01-29-2013 8:31 AM

Thanks Noah. I was afraid I was going to be hearing 6 month+, but hoped for better news. I will get plenty of practice on reloads as I will be getting stuff for my 375 Mag, Glock 23, and I am looking at getting a 1911 because I've alwayswanted one. My wife is getting in the game now too, so I'm looking for a purse carry for her. Probably want to stay in .40 to keep ammo variety to a min. At least until I get proficient enough to justify spending on a higher end reloader.

Diesel70 01-30-2013 10:02 AM

I bought a RRA carbine 458Socom upper 2 weeks ago. Placed an order with two businesses for ammo. After waiting 2 weeks, both backordered the ammo with no ETA for future stock. So now I have the upper, but nothing to shoot through it. <sigh> I've shopped for brass and bullets to reload my own and no luck their either. This is like having a monster truck but no fuel. :no:

Quinc 01-30-2013 1:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Diesel70 (Post 10368391)
I bought a RRA carbine 458Socom upper 2 weeks ago. Placed an order with two businesses for ammo. After waiting 2 weeks, both backordered the ammo with no ETA for future stock. So now I have the upper, but nothing to shoot through it. <sigh> I've shopped for brass and bullets to reload my own and no luck their either. This is like having a monster truck but no fuel. :no:

Keep an eye on starline, brownells, grafs, midwayusa, and gunbroker. You will find some.

Noah 02-10-2013 11:10 AM

Well, I got out to the range yesterday with my loads...
I don't have time at the moment to post all of the results but I can say one thing for sure right off the bat. My rifle sure like the LilGun over re7... big time. Velocities were much better.
For example: With the 325 Hornady FTX, I could not get the re7 to even push one single bullet over 1500fps... Then my lightest load with lilgun had an average velocity of 1613... with my hotest loads pushing over 1800.
I really was surprised at the results since a lot of people on the web seem to like the re7 for the socom???
Anyways, I will post up the chrony data later when I get a bit more time.
Noah


All times are GMT -8. The time now is 5:11 PM.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.9
Copyright ©2000 - 2016, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.