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-   -   new to precision shooting... (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=558759)

disturbed1 04-10-2012 8:00 PM

new to precision shooting...
 
Hey guys, please dont flame me or anything. But I want to get a bolt action rifle than I can hit steel plates with and maybe hunting at some point when my daughter is a lil older. So far I really like the R700 from remington but what would you recomend other than that? Also, what type of ammunition would be capable of extreme long distance once my lady and I have the required skills and disapline to send a round over 500yards. It would be cool to do this at 1000 yards just for fun. I dont know why but everyone always want to shoot up to 1000 yards and so, so do I lol. I dont want to hear any none useful advice or anything. maybe funny jokes. I was wondering if a .308 or 30-06 would be good for 500yrds+ any maybe close to the 1000 yards? I dont want to waste or invest on a practice rifle and then have to upgrade to another one. I only have the luxury of purchasing one rifle and want tot learn how to shoot it well and far once I take the necassary classes. thanks

OldShooter32 04-10-2012 8:55 PM

.30-'06 and .308 have established a lot of respect at 500+ and you can't go wrong there. Winchester Model 70 is a great bolt gun for that range, along with others. Even an '03-A3 will do you well there too. As your shooting improves you can move up, but a lot of rifles can shoot better at 500 than most people can hold. Hook up with some long-range shooters and they will be glad to infect you with their virus...

Wolfie_AR 04-10-2012 9:36 PM

A Savage will do you well for both target and hunting. Very customizable and a wonderful price. .308 is a fine round. Plenty of ammo available as well.

G-forceJunkie 04-10-2012 11:24 PM

I would look for a Remington 700 in .308 win. It is plenty capable to 1000 yards with 175gr ammo and if you ever want to upgrade, there is huge aftermarket and gunsmith support for the 700. Its the small block chevy of bolt guns.

disturbed1 04-11-2012 5:15 PM

lol, im a chevy kinda guy too! My lil brother wants to take gunsmith school and require a r700 to modify and I wouldn't mind him doing it either. As soon as I get the rifle, I will post up here to see who we can go with to show us a few things before i go to precision shooters school. I like the tacticool police r700.

GixxerGuy 04-11-2012 9:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by G-forceJunkie (Post 8381474)
I would look for a Remington 700 in .308 win. It is plenty capable to 1000 yards with 175gr ammo and if you ever want to upgrade, there is huge aftermarket and gunsmith support for the 700. Its the small block chevy of bolt guns.

EXACTLY what this guy said!!!!!!

I did the same thing. Try and find someone selling a used one, that probably already has some upgrades, get a decent scope... and go to Palmetto State Armory online and buy some Federal Gold Medal Match 175gr for $19/box

Start out with Zeroing at 100 yards, get a program like SHOOTER on your smart phone, and work your way out to 500+

Dont forget to save your brass, because u will either love it, and start reloading, or you will get out of the sport and sell one of US your brass!!! lol
Good luck

disturbed1 04-12-2012 8:47 PM

I am thinking about reloading actually

GixxerGuy 04-13-2012 8:49 AM

Start saving !! LOL it costs a few dollars to start. Its lookin like about $600 or so for me until I get to start. All i have left to buy is some dies. Building the bench so i even have a place to reload got me sidetracked lol

robertsma 04-13-2012 11:46 AM

Currently I have a R700 action that I used to build my long range precision rifle. I can hit a 10x10 steel plate at 1050 yards with ease. Rifle specs are as follows:
AICS 1.5
R700 action (trued by phoenix custom rifles)
Krieger SS 1-10tw 5R barrel med palma contour
Timney trigger
seekins 8-40 base
seekins med 30mm rings
nightforce 3.5-15x50 mil-dot scope
Atlas bt-10 bipod

I shoot hornady superformance 178's all day and have shot groups as small as .410 MOA at 100 yards. The rifle is amazingly accurate and shoots just anything well. I've tried FGMM 168's and 175's and they both shoot sub MOA as well. A R700 action is the way to go and you can get a great rifle at a great price.

shmeddie 04-13-2012 7:30 PM

A heavy barrel R700 is perfect for what you have in mind. .308 is also good for what you want to do. Depending on your load and bullet you can get out to 1000 yards but that is pushing it. .308 also has excellent barrel life. After you burn out the barrel or get good you can rebarrel it to some sort of 6mm or 6.5mm that would be better for 1000 yard shooting.

robertsma 04-13-2012 8:06 PM

I agree with shmeddie. If you are trying purely for distance go with a 6.5 creedmore. It has about the same barrel life but mucu superior ballistics compared to 308 win. The next time I re-barrel I will be getting it chambered in 6.5, it really is a good cartridge. One of my main reasons for 308 was ammo availability and cost. 6.5 runs about the same price and if you do your ammo shopping online you'll find it just as easily as any other cartridge.

A.M. 12-10-2012 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GixxerGuy (Post 8387442)
EXACTLY what this guy said!!!!!!

I did the same thing. Try and find someone selling a used one, that probably already has some upgrades, get a decent scope... and go to Palmetto State Armory online and buy some Federal Gold Medal Match 175gr for $19/box

Start out with Zeroing at 100 yards, get a program like SHOOTER on your smart phone, and work your way out to 500+

Dont forget to save your brass, because u will either love it, and start reloading, or you will get out of the sport and sell one of US your brass!!! lol
Good luck

What APP is "SHOOTER"?

San_Diego_Shooter 12-10-2012 9:29 PM

choices following education. check out a few websites, such as:
http://demigodllc.com/articles/6.5-s...creedmoor/?p=1

http://www.6mmbr.com/index.html

http://www.chuckhawks.com/

http://www.brianenos.com/pages/products.html

so much info out there. easy to get addicted to this sport.

chino 12-10-2012 10:33 PM

Shooter is a ballistic app. If you know the muzzle velocity of your rounds, the coefficient of drag, temperature, scope height, elevation, angle... the software will calculate your "comeups" or scope elevation adjustments for different distances.
A similar app (free) is Strelok.
Once you have a suitable weapon, do not skimp on the scope, base, or rings. It is a weapon "system" only as capable as its weakest link.

drunktank 01-31-2013 9:36 PM

Have you considered a .243 (or 6.5 as mentioned)? Softer shooting, since you want your girl involved and flatter trajectories. I'm sure you'll be happy either way.


One thing to note, buying a .22lr to train with will save you money in the long run. Same fundamentals and it simulates a .308 in certain instances.

ar15barrels 02-02-2013 8:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by disturbed1 (Post 8380319)
want to learn how to shoot it well and far once I take the necassary classes. thanks

Where are you located?
We can point you to a newbie class in your area...

222 02-20-2013 9:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar15barrels (Post 10408670)
Where are you located?
We can point you to a newbie class in your area...

Don't mean to jump in on his thread, but I am looking for a newbie class....located in chino. I have an M1A, a Model 70 300H&H and a M98B...I am committed to learning!

Thanks for the help in advance

ar15barrels 02-20-2013 9:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 222 (Post 10596987)
Don't mean to jump in on his thread, but I am looking for a newbie class....located in chino. I have an M1A, a Model 70 300H&H and a M98B...I am committed to learning!

Thanks for the help in advance

Our next "A" clinic is in march.
There is another thread near the top of this subform with the link to it.
You will have to sign up on CAPRC in order to RSVP for it the first week of march.
Of your 3 guns, the m1a will probably be the best bet as the 300 will kill you firing 80 rounds on a day and the m98 will kill everyone else on the line...
Really, you should take the A clinic with a bolt action for the most benefit.

bslaney 02-23-2013 5:01 PM

I may be interested in that clinic, but I have a different question. I have access to either a Rem. 770 in .30-06 or a belgian-made Browning Safari in .300WM. Which of those would be the better choice for this class? Obviously the Safari is going to be more accurate, but I'm a little worried about the increased recoil in match loads.

ar15barrels 02-23-2013 7:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bslaney (Post 10624084)
I may be interested in that clinic, but I have a different question. I have access to either a Rem. 770 in .30-06 or a belgian-made Browning Safari in .300WM. Which of those would be the better choice for this class? Obviously the Safari is going to be more accurate, but I'm a little worried about the increased recoil in match loads.


Of those two, the 30-06 would work if it has a heavy barrel.
I would not shoot one of our clinics with a hunting weight barrel.
The recoil will take all the fun out of the shooting to the point that you will not be able to concentrate and learn.

222 02-28-2013 7:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar15barrels (Post 10597520)
Our next "A" clinic is in march.
There is another thread near the top of this subform with the link to it.
You will have to sign up on CAPRC in order to RSVP for it the first week of march.
Of your 3 guns, the m1a will probably be the best bet as the 300 will kill you firing 80 rounds on a day and the m98 will kill everyone else on the line...
Really, you should take the A clinic with a bolt action for the most benefit.

Unfortunately the m98b and 300 are the only bolt guns I have. I may be able to borrow a 30 06 from my dad. I hope to make the class.

ar15barrels 02-28-2013 8:25 PM

I know that if you were to buy 80rounds of federal gold medal match, that you could probably find someone to loan you a proper 308 target rifle to shoot the clinic with.
Just post a thread in the clinics subforum on caprc asking for loaner guns and see what you get...

222 03-01-2013 11:04 PM

Thanks Randall, I appreciate the help.

advocatusdiaboli 03-25-2013 7:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drunktank (Post 10386536)
Have you considered a .243 (or 6.5 as mentioned)? Softer shooting, since you want your girl involved and flatter trajectories. I'm sure you'll be happy either way.

How do you rate .243 s 6.5 vs 7mm RM? Chuck Hawks sure like the 7mm RM of those three if I recall correctly.

ar15barrels 03-25-2013 11:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli (Post 10914295)
How do you rate .243 s 6.5 vs 7mm RM? Chuck Hawks sure like the 7mm RM of those three if I recall correctly.

Of those 3, a fast twist 243 is my choice for target shooting.
If I were shooting at stuff that breathes, then I would look at 260 and 7mag depending on my energy needs.
There is no need for a 7mag for target shooting.

advocatusdiaboli 03-26-2013 3:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar15barrels (Post 10916987)
Of those 3, a fast twist 243 is my choice for target shooting.
If I were shooting at stuff that breathes, then I would look at 260 and 7mag depending on my energy needs.
There is no need for a 7mag for target shooting.

Thanks, Randall. I want might skip .308 since I want a rifle I can keep and not have to try and sell a trainer or upgrade barrels and I intend to hunt with them as well (yes. I know the .308 is a great round, but I'd rather have .243's better BCs) though I am sure the rifle will out shoot me for a long time. So it will be .243 first for targets and hunting with good first focal plane mil dot (power range TBD), then .270 or 7mm RM for hunting later when I have better skills. I am thinking I cannot go wrong with a Remington 700 variant, but I'll look at other choices—total budget will decide because I want good mounts, rings, and glass. I'll lurk around and search old posts for platform options. The 700 is so common it's probably the way to go for flexibility and after market upgrades.

ar15barrels 03-26-2013 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by advocatusdiaboli (Post 10922058)
I'd rather have .243's better BCs

You will need a custom fast twist barrel so plan on rebarreling right away...

243 Barrels last around 1600 rounds.
When I'm shooting a lot, I wear out two 243 barrels a year.

shmeddie 03-30-2013 3:56 PM

Randall is right). The factory .243's don't come with a fast enough twist rate to stableize the high b.c. .243 bullets. You'll need a 1-8 to 1-7 to stablize the 105's and 115's.

postal 05-01-2013 2:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar15barrels (Post 10926027)
You will need a custom fast twist barrel so plan on rebarreling right away...

243 Barrels last around 1600 rounds.
When I'm shooting a lot, I wear out two 243 barrels a year.

Who do you have install those barrels for you?
:chris::chris::) LOL!

I keed! I keed!!!!

Tackman11 05-02-2013 11:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postal (Post 11238767)
Who do you have install those barrels for you?
:chris::chris::) LOL!

I keed! I keed!!!!

Randall is a smith he does his own work.

ar15barrels 05-03-2013 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tackman11 (Post 11251568)
Randall is a smith he does his own work.

Postal was in my shop yesterday having me thread his barrel.
He was kidding above...

24_minutes_to_1000 05-05-2013 8:00 AM

If it's bang for your buck you're looking for, buy a Savage short action rifle in .308 Winchester. An out-of-the-box Savage has some advantages for the budget conscious:

1) Out of box accuracy. This has much to do with Savage's articulating bolt head that allows the bolt face to mate flush with the cartridge when chambered. This will eliminate the need for costly shop work on your action that will need to be done if you buy another brand.

2) Barrel/caliber changes are EASILY DONE AT HOME IN TEN MINUTES! This means that you won't have to pay a gunsmith to install your new 1/8 twist 243 Winchester Lothar Walther barrel. It also means that your rifle can do double service by simply changing calibers. .243 Winchester for target shooting, .308 for hunting on the same action.

3) The Savage adjustable accu-trigger obviates the need for an expensive trigger replacement.

4) Several brands of high-end rifle barrels pre-fit and chambered for Savage. See: http://www.lothar-walther.com/339.php , http://www.shilen.com/savageBarrels.html, http://www.pac-nor.com/prefit/

5) Plenty of aftermarket stocks available that do not require bedding.

As for barrel life, If you use the heaviest bullets that your barrel will stabilize, and the slowest powder that will fill the case to 95-100%, and stay away from the max listed load, and use a throat polishing regimen, you will get over 3000 rounds out of your .243 Winchester barrel.

My .243 Win. load is a 105 AMAX bullet on 45gr. of H-1000 in Lapua brass. Very accurate and easy on the barrel. The rifle is a Stevens 200 (Savage brand without the accu-trigger. I replaced the trigger with a rifle basix comp. trigger) with a Lothar Walther SS 28 inch barrel and and a H-S Precision aluminum bedded stock. Total price for the rifle without scope was $780. Probably a little more now.

http://i65.photobucket.com/albums/h2...A45GRH1000.jpg

ar15barrels 05-05-2013 11:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24_minutes_to_1000 (Post 11267797)
2) Barrel/caliber changes are EASILY DONE AT HOME IN TEN MINUTES!
This means that you won't have to pay a gunsmith to install your new 1/8 twist 243 Winchester Lothar Walther barrel.

it's funny to always see this claim and then have so many people bring me savages to remove and reinstall the barrels.
It's probably because the tools to remove and install the barrel cost 3 times more than I charge to do the job.

24_minutes_to_1000 05-05-2013 1:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ar15barrels (Post 11269125)
it's funny to always see this claim and then have so many people bring me savages to remove and reinstall the barrels.
It's probably because the tools to remove and install the barrel cost 3 times more than I charge to do the job.

You're prices must be way low:

Savage barrel nut wrench- $22.89 https://www.midwayusa.com/find?userS...rel+nut+wrench

Wheeler Engineering barrel vise- $60.99 http://www.midwayusa.com/product/226...-wood-bushings

$84 for a lifetime of simple barrel changes.

Maybe there is a dearth of DIY capable guys out there, but for the guys who like to do their own work Savage barrel changes are a piece of cake.

For anyone interested in the advantages and ease of Savage rifles, check out the forum at http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php or PM me and I'll walk you through the Savage barrel change.

postal 05-05-2013 6:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24_minutes_to_1000 (Post 11269837)
You're prices must be way low:

Savage barrel nut wrench- $22.89 https://www.midwayusa.com/find?userS...rel+nut+wrench

Wheeler Engineering barrel vise- $60.99 http://www.midwayusa.com/product/226...-wood-bushings

$84 for a lifetime of simple barrel changes.

Maybe there is a dearth of DIY capable guys out there, but for the guys who like to do their own work Savage barrel changes are a piece of cake.

For anyone interested in the advantages and ease of Savage rifles, check out the forum at http://www.savageshooters.com/content.php or PM me and I'll walk you through the Savage barrel change.

you seem to have left out 'go no go' gauges.

As few and far between as I'd switch out my savage barrel(308)- it's a lot cheaper for me to have Randall do it.

Consider I bought that rifle sometime around 2004 ish... (when accu trigger was new) The barrel was just removed for the first time 4 days ago by Randall to fit a brake.

This winter, I'll rebarrel, and have Randall move the brake over to the new barrel...

If I buy the wrench/vice/go-no go gauges... At this rate, it'll take at least 10 yrs or longer to pay for itself.... Save myself the hassle and just have Randall do it, and do it right, while I drink his beer.:cheers2:

I normally do a lot of work on my own guns- I've done a lot of mods... But the cost of all the tools to do it right, and how often it needs to be done...- Why bother?

gemoose23 05-05-2013 7:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postal (Post 11271731)
I normally do a lot of work on my own guns- I've done a lot of mods... But the cost of all the tools to do it right, and how often it needs to be done...- Why bother?

I hope you send Randall a gift during Christmas.:D

I just priced a barrel change at a gunsmith that does my buddy's rem 700 rifle and he charges 200 bucks and 3 weeks turnaround.

ar15barrels 05-05-2013 7:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 24_minutes_to_1000 (Post 11269837)
You're prices must be way low

I charge $40 to break down and reassemble a bolt gun.
You need to add headspace gauges to your list of tools above.

ar15barrels 05-05-2013 7:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gemoose23 (Post 11272030)
I just priced a barrel change at a gunsmith that does my buddy's rem 700 rifle and he charges 200 bucks and 3 weeks turnaround.

i can fit a barrel on a 700 action in about 2-3 hours, while-you wait...

24_minutes_to_1000 05-05-2013 7:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by postal (Post 11271731)
you seem to have left out 'go no go' gauges.

As few and far between as I'd switch out my savage barrel(308)- it's a lot cheaper for me to have Randall do it.

Consider I bought that rifle sometime around 2004 ish... (when accu trigger was new) The barrel was just removed for the first time 4 days ago by Randall to fit a brake.

This winter, I'll rebarrel, and have Randall move the brake over to the new barrel...

If I buy the wrench/vice/go-no go gauges... At this rate, it'll take at least 10 yrs or longer to pay for itself.... Save myself the hassle and just have Randall do it, and do it right, while I drink his beer.:cheers2:

I normally do a lot of work on my own guns- I've done a lot of mods... But the cost of all the tools to do it right, and how often it needs to be done...- Why bother?

I wouldn't recommend this to anyone who isn't sure of what they're doing, but a fullsized case makes a perfect go/no go gauge. Insert the sized case in the chamber, screw on to the action until you hear the "click" of the extractors, tighten barrel nut. I've done this multiple times for caliber changes with no issues, but again, no go gauges are available for under 30 bucks.

I have no issue with people using a gunsmith, but there are many guys who would rather do their own work, and some of those guys aren't aware of the alternatives available to the standard "Buy a Remington and then spend big bucks on action/bolt work, and then more bucks on barrel changes, and more bucks on bedding" etc., etc, not to mention having to decide how to deal with wanting two different calibers.

In the scenario that the OP describes, of needing a multi-purpose rifle, with different calibers implied, the Savage, with it's ease of caliber changes and OOB accuracy wins hands down.

postal 05-06-2013 2:39 PM

....So... Now we're talking $115 + shipping.. $130....

Randall found my headspace was out of tolerance from the factory.... by people that assemble them day in day out for a living...

And I should trust a sized case and a click to be dead nuts?

I'm afraid I'd have to pass. It make work fine for you. But I'll pass.

I am curious what a third party would measure on your rifle though.

I work over my own triggers, do my own action and scope base bedding, heck, you should see what I did to that factory tupperware stock.... woodblocks, bondo and 4+ layers of fiberglass... Worked over my 1911 myself too.

In this case, I had Randall install the muzzle brake. When I rebarrel, He will move the brake over to my new barrel, as well as headspace it.

Costs less than the tools including go/no go and shipping. I wont need to mess with it for nearly a decade. I'd misplace those tools in ten years.


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