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-   -   If I live in CA, can I go to (OR, NV, AZ) and buy a gun? NO (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=503873)

Librarian 11-24-2011 4:20 PM

If I live in CA, can I go to (OR, NV, AZ) and buy a gun? NO
 
Can I
  • buy a gun at a gun show out of state,
    or
  • buy a gun from a private individual in some other state,
    or
  • receive a gun as a gift while I am in some other state?
NO.

If you live in California, buying/receiving a gun outside the state would be an INTERSTATE TRANSFER, and generally, Federal law requires you to use an FFL in your state of residence.

It is a Federal felony for other state residents to sell to someone who does not live in their own states or for you to bring a gun back to CA if you somehow get one out of state.

It's not nice to ask someone to risk 5 years in Federal prison to sell you a gun.

See the wiki for the full details http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/in...rms_Interstate

Military personnel with Permanent Change of Station orders to a state are citizens of that state, and only that state for purposes of buying guns; they may NOT legally buy guns in their 'home of record' if that is a different state. The Federal laws governing military voting and taxes are different from the laws on buying guns. See also the wiki, http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Fe...y_requirements.

This thread is pointed at people who are residents of JUST ONE state, usually California. People with dual (or more than dual) residency are uncommon; they may do what their states of residence allow, when in one of those states.

ALSO, a person from out of state cannot come to California
and transfer a gun to you, a California resident,
unless you go through a California FFL.


In the sense of getting a gun from a gun show or an individual while you are out of state, this is correct.

It is a bit less absolute than a plain 'no' -- but hardly anyone is thinking of these:
It IS legal to purchase a gun out of state and arrange for it to be sent to a California FFL, where the gun will do its 10-day wait and DROS. That is, you, the buyer, may not take possession of it out of state, but it must be shipped back to CA.
And, it is legal for a C&R license holder to buy C&R guns out of state and bring them back - licensees can do what their licenses allow.
(This seems to have worked as an idea before; maybe it'll work again.)

ETA: This thread is an FAQ answer thread, not a discussion thread. It isn't locked because reasonable questions are possible.

Librarian 11-25-2011 7:47 AM

A collection of answers to FAQs from below ...

1) This thread is for people who live in JUST ONE STATE, and that state is California.

Dual-residency or other multi-state residency questions are OFF TOPIC FOR THIS THREAD. We cannot know what any other state requires for considering a person a resident. But Federal residency is discussed exhaustively.


2) This thread is for people who have no kind of Federal Firearms License. We get questions about buying C&R weapons - if you have a C&R license, you can do what that license allows you to do in the other 49 states.


3) A number of people seem to want to move to California, but leave their guns behind, for an assortment of reasons.
BRING YOUR GUNS!

Once you actually move to CA, any guns you left behind in your previous state appear to have been transferred to whomever has them while you are in CA.

That means you can NOT go back and get them - that would seem to be an illegal interstate transfer, 'not-CA-resident' to CA-resident.




The effect of Mance v Holder, the Texas case that ruled the restriction on out of state handgun purchase is unconstitutional (discussion here) is not known as of March 6, 2015. Discussion of that case is off-topic in this thread until a clear application of the case is determined.

Librarian 04-13-2012 8:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Errackeleo (Post 8396577)
I am a LEO in Oregon and former resident of California. If purchasing out of state you must ship from out of state ffl to California ffl. When California ffl receives, you start your paperwork and waiting period. It must be on approved list in order to ship to ca unless it's a used firearm and purchasing from a private party (still must ship from ffl to ffl). All must be ca compliant (10 rounds max, no assault weapons, ect)

You misunderstand the Roster.

Unless the buyer is exempt from the Roster, or the handgun is exempt or is made exempt, a CA FFL may not transfer an off-Roster handgun that is an interstate transfer. (Intrafamilial-interstate works, too.)

Roster-exempt transactions - California Private Party Transfers - are for within-California transfers.

Quiet 05-15-2012 11:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ub3rDorK (Post 8587288)
What about voluntary registration?

hypothetically, If a firearm purchased by a resident of say... AZ and brings it back to CA which they have residencies in both.... The owners gets deployed and the unthinkable happens....can it be transferred to another person via voluntary registration?

NO.

Except for intra-familial gifts between CA residents, all handguns must be transfered through a CA FFL dealer.

Quiet 07-03-2012 11:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rjeusmc (Post 8860408)
I know it may have been covered but I had a couple questions straight away.

If I am Military with "dual-residency", under what circumstances may I sell my off-roster handguns to a CA resident? In order to conduct a PPT, you will need your Military ID and your orders for CA. If you do not have orders for CA, you will not be able to conduct a PPT.

If I bought a gun from my home state as a gift for a CA resident am I violating federal law? In order to be a gift, no money can exchange hands.

If I purchase from out of state and decide in CA that I want to do a private sale am I in legal jeopardy? Depends on when you acquired the handgun, before or after you recieved orders for CA.

"dual residency" is tricky.

Legally (Feds & CA), with your Military ID and orders for CA, you can conduct PPTs of firearms you brought with you to CA.

Because, technically the Feds consider active duty military to be residents of the state they have orders for, if you have orders for CA, you can not legally travel to another state and acquire a handgun.


27 CFR 478.11
State of residence.
The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1. A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2. A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Example 3. A, an alien, travels on vacation or on a business trip to State X. Regardless of the length of time A spends in State X, A does not have a State of residence in State X. This is because A does not have a home in State X at which he has resided for at least 90 days.

Librarian 07-27-2012 12:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mark B (Post 9012142)
Any hope for the ignorant?
What about those folks who may have already been gifted a gun from out of state. Is there any way to make it legal?

Not really.

The Feds and the State rely on people following the law. There are no 'government approved' methods to repair 'honest mistakes', because they seem to believe there are no mistakes.

This interstate transfer stuff has been the law since 1968. In 1975, maybe one could plead ignorance and be believed. In 2012, not so much - despite lots of evidence that people really don't know.

Chaos47 10-07-2012 1:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by humchris85 (Post 9469136)
What if I were to move to say OR and buy a gun that isn't on the CA approved list like a S&W Govener, then I were to move back to CA, would I be able to bring guns back that aren't CA approved?

If you where a resident of a different state you could buy whatever is legal in that state and federally. If you then move back to CA you can then bring whatever is legal into CA. In the case of the S&W Governor it would be an illegal short barrel shotgun in CA, so no.

Anything legal you bring back you would fill out the new resident form and pay $19 bucks per
The roster does not come into play for this.

Librarian 10-25-2012 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mojastarma (Post 9589343)
Librarian, could you discuss bringing in guns from other countries, or do we need another thread for that?
I'm assuming that out of country guns would have to be shipped to an FFL also, right?
Thanks in advance.

Different thread.

Try this one - it's complicated. http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...10&postcount=1

fiddletown 11-12-2012 3:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by StoneThrower (Post 9709701)
I recently moved to California (a few weeks ago) from Nevada but have yet to get a CA drivers license. Is it still legal for me to drive to Las Vegas, buy firearms and bring them back? My drivers license, CCW permit and vehicle registration are still valid in the state of Nevada.

The short answer is "no." Under federal law (ATF regulations) once you've moved to California to live, you are now a California resident for the purposes of federal gun laws. See 27 CFR 478.11:
Quote:

...State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1.

A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2.

A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Example 3.

A, an alien, travels on vacation or on a business trip to State X. Regardless of the length of time A spends in State X, A does not have a State of residence in State X. This is because A does not have a home in State X at which he has resided for at least 90 days....
Quote:

Originally Posted by winnre (Post 9709734)
...you are really in transition, you are moving here slowly and it will take, oh, 30 days to finish the move. In that time since all your documentation says NV you are probably a NV resident....

No, see the ATF regulation quoted above. "Being in transition" is legally meaningless, and what State your DL is from has nothing to do with things.

Note that a violation of federal law on interstate firearms transfers can get you up to five years in federal prison and/or a fine. It's also a felony so a conviction comes with a lifetime loss of gun rights.

fiddletown 11-12-2012 7:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winnre (Post 9712117)
On this line, if I am in NV and see a gun that I have to have, can I buy it and have them ship it to a FFL in CA and DROS it to me there?

Yes, as long as it is legal to own in California, is on the roster or exempt(if a handgun), and doesn't include large capacity magazines (or they get disassemble before coming into California). I've bought a number of handguns from out-of-state sellers through GunBroker and GunsAmerica in that way.

Librarian 12-17-2012 12:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by winnre (Post 9940043)
What about getting a GUN TRUST in another state, consisting of you and a friend who is a resident if that state, you buy guns for the trust, then later on you dissolve the trust and take your guns?

Out of scope - that's a question for a Real Lawyer (TM).

fiddletown 01-03-2013 8:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pismopal (Post 10095729)
Quote:

Originally Posted by Errackeleo
I am a LEO in Oregon and former resident of California. If purchasing out of state you must ship from out of state ffl to California ffl. When California ffl receives, you start your paperwork and waiting period. It must be on approved list in order to ship to ca unless it's a used firearm and purchasing from a private party (still must ship from ffl to ffl). All must be ca compliant (10 rounds max, no assault weapons, ect)

EXCEPT.....when your father gives you the pistol and you bring it with you to your home state and register with cadoj with a familial transfer.

Wrong -- absolutely wrong. Doing what you describe would be a felony under federal law, and the transferee and transferor could get up to five years in federal prison plus a lifetime loss of gun rights.

Under federal law any transfer of a gun from a resident of one State to a resident of another (except when a bequest under a will or by intestate succession) must go through an FFL, and there is no exception under federal law for intrafamilial transfers. (If a handgun, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence.)

Here is pretty much the whole story on interstate transfers (not including the rules for those with Curio and Relic licenses or the subject of dual residency):

[1] Under federal law, any transfer (with a few, narrow exceptions, e. g., by bequest under a will) from a resident of one State to a resident of another must be through an FFL. The transfer must comply with all the requirements of the State in which the transfer is being done as well as all federal formalities (e. g., completion of a 4473, etc.).

[2] In the case of handguns, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence. You may obtain a handgun in a State other than your State of residence, BUT it must be shipped by the transferor to an FFL in your State of residence to transfer the handgun to you.

[3] In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.

[4] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

[5] There are no exceptions under the applicable federal laws for gifts, whether between relatives or otherwise, nor is there any exception for transactions between relatives.

[6] The relevant federal laws may be found at: 18 USC 922(a)(3); 18 USC 922(a)(5); and 18 USC 922(b)(3).

Here's what the statutes say:
Quote:

18 U.S.C. 922. Unlawful acts

(a) It shall be unlawful—
...

(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph
(A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State,

(B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter;
...

(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides; except that this paragraph shall not apply to
(A) the transfer, transportation, or delivery of a firearm made to carry out a bequest of a firearm to, or an acquisition by intestate succession of a firearm by, a person who is permitted to acquire or possess a firearm under the laws of the State of his residence, and

(B) the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
....

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver --
...

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee's place of business is located, except that this paragraph
(A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee's place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and

(B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes
;...

fiddletown 01-07-2013 8:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joewy (Post 10142393)
I think that this only applies to handguns on the federal level.
Many people come here and buy rifles in Wyoming and neighboring states during hunting season. Im not really sure how they take them back but they do buy them thru an FFL. Of course no one will sell anything to someone with a California ID. So there is probably a californis law that prohibits it.

I described this all in detail on post 12.

Under federal law, the transfer must go through an FFL. But in the case of long guns, an FFL in a State other than the transferee's State of residence can do the transfer, BUT ONLY IF (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.

In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California requiring a DROS and 10 day wait), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies.

morrcarr67 02-02-2013 9:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by trigger945 (Post 10409227)
Just to clarify, what is the difference between "legal guns" in CA and guns on the roster? Seems like if one is a resident of a state and bought a legal gun there, then moved to CA to be a resident, the gun can be brought in and registered as long as it is a "legal" gun? How does one know which ones are legal and which ones are not?

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/hgflowchart.pdf

Check the flow chart. If it's not listed by name or characteristics it is legal. Keep in mind you still can't bring in magazines that can hold more than 10 rounds.

Librarian 02-02-2013 9:29 PM

The Roster is a limitation on what guns an FFL may sell to non-exempt customers. Otherwise, you can ignore the Roster.

fiddletown 02-04-2013 7:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thegrantman (Post 10420656)
....My situation. I am a resident of California but live in Kentucky while going to graduate school. Is there any way that I can purchase a handgun? Be it online from a retailer in CA, and then have it shipped to a FFL in KY or from a retailer in KY who will send it to a FFL in CA who will then ship it to me or a FFL in KY? OR (and I am beginning to think this is the case) I need to physically be IN California to purchase the firearm.
...

Under federal law, for the purposes of firearms transfer, while you are present in Kentucky attending school you are a Kentucky resident. See 27 CFR 478.11:
Quote:

State of residence. The State in which an individual resides. An individual resides in a State if he or she is present in a State with the intention of making a home in that State. If an individual is on active duty as a member of the Armed Forces, the individual's State of residence is the State in which his or her permanent duty station is located. An alien who is legally in the United States shall be considered to be a resident of a State only if the alien is residing in the State and has resided in the State for a period of at least 90 days prior to the date of sale or delivery of a firearm. The following are examples that illustrate this definition:

Example 1.

A maintains a home in State X. A travels to State Y on a hunting, fishing, business, or other type of trip. A does not become a resident of State Y by reason of such trip.

Example 2.

A is a U.S. citizen and maintains a home in State X and a home in State Y. A resides in State X except for weekends or the summer months of the year and in State Y for the weekends or the summer months of the year. During the time that A actually resides in State X, A is a resident of State X, and during the time that A actually resides in State Y, A is a resident of State Y.

Example 3.

A, an alien, travels on vacation or on a business trip to State X. Regardless of the length of time A spends in State X, A does not have a State of residence in State X. This is because A does not have a home in State X at which he has resided for at least 90 days.
Whether or not you might have an issue under Kentucky law I couldn't say. I think you might want to look into it, however.

Librarian 03-06-2013 1:44 PM

Usage note: If your question is likely to need more than about 'yes, you can do that', please start a separate thread.

fiddletown 03-22-2013 8:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Battleicious (Post 10882116)
Just wanted to chime in, but you can buy a long arm in any state AS LONG AS IT IS LEGAL TO DO IN BOTH STATES. ....

Yes, I covered this in post 59:
Quote:

...[3] In the case of long guns, it may be any FFL as long as (1) the long gun is legal in the transferee's State of residence; and (2) the transfer complies with the laws of the State in which it takes place; and (3) the transfer complies with the law of the transferee's State of residence.

[4] In connection with the transfer of a long gun, some FFLs will not want to handle the transfer to a resident of another State, because they may be uncertain about the laws of that State. And if the transferee resides in some States (e. g., California), the laws of the State may be such that an out-of-state FFL will not be able to conduct a transfer that complies....

rvr350 08-27-2013 5:35 PM

How about bidding guns on gunbroker.com? I've talked to a local CA FFL that is willing to help me with transfer, and the gun which is located in Florida. I have made sure the gun is on the CA roster.

Is it legal? Thanks!

fiddletown 01-09-2014 8:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joshua54321 (Post 13170254)
You could legally By a rifle out of state but not a hang gun unless u go to dmv and get a state id... driver license not needed just id... i just did last month

I suspect that you don't understand things.
  1. One could have dual residency, but in order to comply with federal law one would need to satisfy the federal definition of "State of residence." The definition of "State of residence" for the purposes of federal gun transfer law is set out in this thread in post 99. A state ID is legally insufficient under federal law.

  2. And federal law on interstate transfers is set out in post 59. Unless a California resident legitimately has dual residency under federal law, he may take possession of a gun only from a California FFL.

morrcarr67 02-16-2014 6:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bushmonkey92 (Post 13451974)
ok stupid question. If I move to nevada and bring my calif weapons there, buy some more weapons being a resident there, move back to calif I can't bring my weapons back with me without going through a ffl? PIA laws sounds like it to me.

Yes.

The new ones you bought would have to registered with CA with in 60 days of being brought into the state.

Use this form http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/ag.../ab991frm.pdf?

Librarian 03-27-2014 10:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tn510 (Post 13699863)
So ima just ask to clarify this to my buddy

so my friend is stationed out in Georgia as he is in the air force...

He can buy a gun that is off roster like a glock 42 from a FFL and have it sent to an FFL here in Cali and I can pick it up after 10day wait and fees etc?

He cannot legally bring the gun back into California and do a PPT at an FFL?

The only way to get a glock 42 from him is...
1) first have it SSE
2) send from a FFL in Georgia to my FFL
3) pay fees and wait to pick up
4) have SSE reversed
5) success?

That's about as complicated as you could make this ...

Presuming your AF friend is in GA on PCS (permanent change of station) orders, he is a resident of GA for gun buying purposes, and he may buy anything GA says is legal to sell to him.

Let's go with 'he has PCS orders to GA'.

IF he is legal to buy a handgun out of state, THEN he could indeed buy an off-Roster handgun, and have it converted SSE.

Converted, it is exempt from the CA Roster. It seems unlikely that an out of state gunsmith or whatever would know how to do the conversion, but that's a detail; there's also some reasonable suggestion that the work needs to be done by an 07 (manufacturer) FFL.

- All this takes place outside CA. -

So - if he IS a resident of GA, he can't do a PPT in CA, because PPT is for 2 parties with CA ID; he may have that, but if he is not a CA resident for gun purposes - no PCS orders here - he is a resident someplace else; that makes the transfer an 'interstate transfer'. Functionally that means a higher fee, not the CA PPT fee, and the Roster would apply - but the gun in question would be Roster-exempt.

An interstate transfer, someplace to CA, of an off-Roster handgun gift is fine. A sale might be fine but at this point in the story it looks quite like you are asking your friend to buy for you - which brings up 'straw purchase' issues.

We are NOT going to get into straw purchase in this thread,
or any other thread, until the Supreme Court rules on
the case on that point this session. Search the Litigation Forum for the case and its locked thread.

The interstate transfer of a Roster-exempt handgun may occur by having it shipped to, or personally brought to, a well-informed California FFL. If that exempt handgun is SSE, it is legal to smith it back into non SSE condition.

This suggestion is about 5X messier than a normal situation.

fiddletown 04-01-2014 3:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El Matavenados (Post 13780805)
...a CA resident may not buy a HANDGUN in another state, unless it is transferred from FFL to FFL, but a CA resident CAN buy a rifle or shotgun from an FFL in another state, provided that the sale complies with the laws of the state in which it was purchased.

I haven't read the entire thread, but in your posts, you do not seem to differentiate between handguns and rifles/shotguns. Do you know of any CA state law that would prohibit the importation of a long gun which was legally purchased in another state?

In the case of a long gun it would also be a violation of federal law. You haven't read 18 USC 922(b)(3) correctly.

It reads, emphasis added:
Quote:

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1)...

(2) ...

(3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph
(A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States),...

So the transfer of a long gun must fully comply with the transfer laws of both the State in which the transfer takes place and the State in which the transferee resides.

If the transferee lives in California, the transfer of a long gun must include completion of the California Dealer Record of Sate (DROS), submission of the DROS to the California DOJ, and the ten day waiting period. An FFL in another State can not comply with the California DROS requirements and therefore could not transfer to a California resident a long gun in a manner compliant with federal law (18 USC 922(b)(3)).

Librarian 04-18-2014 3:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Neo Sharkey (Post 13905604)
I've read through this thread, and have a question.

Can I buy a black powder, muzzle loading revolver like the Colt 1851 Navy? Are muzzle loading black powder firearms considered the same as modern firearms?

The catalog I saw says no FFL required, but does CA have additional restrictions on these that the feds don't?

Generally, yes you may. See the wiki article -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Antique_Firearms

Neo Sharkey 04-18-2014 6:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Librarian (Post 13906723)
Generally, yes you may. See the wiki article -- http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Antique_Firearms

I didn't think to check the Wiki; thanks for pointing me in the right direction.

<after reading the wiki>
So by my reading...buying the Colt 1851 Navy is OK as long as I can legally purchase a firearm in CA. :)

But reading through that gave me flashbacks to college...When I am benevolent dictator, I will require all laws be written so that the average 4th grader can understand them.

Librarian 06-16-2014 10:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jason95357 (Post 14302634)
Can I purchase a rifle or long gun in another state and store it in that state for when I visit (or potentially move there, or at least move out of California to another free state which doesn't prohibit purchasing from other states and importing)? I will be storing it in a safe which only I have access to (or a locksmith), thus avoiding allowing someone else to have possession.

I guess the other option would be to buy in California or make in either state legal lowers, then store them out of state with non-California configurations. Same question (but probably wrong thread): can I store non-California firearms out of state where they are legal in a safe that only I have access to?

Not trying to break the law or even skirt it, trying to be 100% legal.

For unlicensed CA residents, CA law requires using a CA FFL; Federal law says the transaction must satisfy the laws of the states of residence of the parties to the transaction - so no, you could not buy out of state unless you take possession through a CA FFL.
Quote:

I guess the other option would be to buy in California or make in either state legal lowers, then store them out of state with non-California configurations.
This should work
Quote:

where they are legal in a safe that only I have access to
but it would be best to check with the state laws of the states which might host your stored guns.

Librarian 08-05-2014 9:33 PM

Update - just deleted 140 or so posts to clean up.

ElDub1950 08-15-2014 12:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chaos47 (Post 9469142)
If you where a resident of a different state you could buy whatever is legal in that state and federally. If you then move back to CA you can then bring whatever is legal into CA. In the case of the S&W Governor it would be an illegal short barrel shotgun in CA, so no.

Anything legal you bring back you would fill out the new resident form and pay $19 bucks per
The roster does not come into play for this.

(^^ this was in reference to moving to another state and moving back)

I can't find any reference to a minimum time limit to be a resident of another state. Is there any?

I'm considering taking an 8-12 month contract in Utah and moving there, but likely returning to CA afterwards. Several things I'd like to buy while there and bring back ... everything CA legal of course.

I can't believe CA laws would let me "move" to another state for a couple of weeks and "move" back, so there must be some limitations. But have to believe 8 months would not be a problem.

Any info on that.

BTW, I don't own realestate in CA or anything like that, that could be construed as my still being a CA resident.

Librarian 08-15-2014 3:42 PM

See post 2, please. The laws of other states are off topic for this thread and forum.

Since there is some risk here, it seems reasonable to get Real Advice from a Real Lawyer.

miknairb 08-21-2014 4:27 PM

I'm out of state for grad school, and I was wondering if I could purchase a long gun out here, then move back to CA with it when I'm done (CA legal, of course). I have a CA driver's license still, and I was wondering if I should get my non-CA ID card. Thanks in advance for your wisdom.

Librarian 08-26-2014 7:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by miknairb (Post 14714366)
I'm out of state for grad school, and I was wondering if I could purchase a long gun out here, then move back to CA with it when I'm done (CA legal, of course). I have a CA driver's license still, and I was wondering if I should get my non-CA ID card. Thanks in advance for your wisdom.

BATF says "yes" - see http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Fe...y_requirements

bohoki 11-23-2014 8:41 AM

Quote:

Illegal for the private BUYER

(a)(3) tells us that unlicensed individuals may not go to a state where they do not live, buy a gun, take delivery of the gun, and bring it back to the state of residence.
Illegal for the private SELLER

(a)(5) tells us that unlicensed individuals may not sell a gun to unlicensed individuals who do not live in the same state as the seller.

Penalties for violation of (a)(2), (a)(3), and (a)(5) are the 'default' provisions of 18 USC 924 (a)(1)(D):

ok so i saw this

so me and pal from california are in nevada

i give him my gun since he is a resident of my state its ok?

now he has gun but part one says he cannot bring it back to california so he stores it at public storage and i suppose california is the only state that gun is not allowed to visit ever again?


how can california have such long arms to claim juristiction on what a resident of california can do out of the state

Librarian 11-23-2014 11:08 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bohoki (Post 15315873)
ok so i saw this

so me and pal from california are in nevada

i give him my gun since he is a resident of my state its ok?

now he has gun but part one says he cannot bring it back to california so he stores it at public storage and i suppose california is the only state that gun is not allowed to visit ever again?


how can california have such long arms to claim juristiction on what a resident of california can do out of the state

No, not OK - CA requires CA residents to use a CA FFL for transfers - that's why CA residents are barred from out of state transfers at an out of state FFL.

NV laws on gun transfers apply to NV residents. Two CA carpet-baggers don't qualify.

Discussion of how that might be detected is off-topic.

vistula 01-17-2015 6:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Under federal law [B
any[/B] transfer of a gun from a resident of one State to a resident of another (except when a bequest under a will or by intestate succession) must go through an FFL, and there is no exception under federal law for intrafamilial transfers. (If a handgun, it must be an FFL in the transferee's State of residence.)

As of January 1, 2015, this is also a requirement under California law.

Librarian 01-17-2015 10:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vistula (Post 15645728)
As of January 1, 2015, this is also a requirement under California law.

CA law has not changed on this point for 2015.

For intrafamilial (parent/child/grandparent/grandchild) inheritance, CA law allows interstate inheritance to avoid the FFL; Federal law does not have the intrafamilial restriction.

Quiet 01-17-2015 12:35 PM

There has also been changes for "dual-residents" that started on 01-01-2015. [PC 27585(a)]

As a "dual-resident" of CA and another State, it is still legal to acquire a firearm in that other State while residing in that State.

However, it is now illegal to bring that firearm to CA. Unless, the firearm to transferred to the "dual-resident" through a CA FFL dealer.

So, in order for a "dual-resident" of CA to legally bring a firearm they acquired in another State to CA, they must...
1. Ship that firearm to a CA FFL dealer.
2. The CA FFL dealer will then transfer (4473/DROS/10 day wait) the firearm back to the "dual-resident" of CA.
Failure to comply is a misdemeanor if the firearm is a "long gun" [PC 27590(a)] and a felony if the firearm is a "handgun" [PC 27590(c)(7)].

It is unknown at this time if a handgun acquired in this manner, needs to be on the Roster of Handguns Certified for Sale or be exempt from it.

vistula 01-19-2015 5:39 AM

[QUOTE=how can california have such long arms to claim juristiction on what a resident of california can do out of the state[/QUOTE]

You can do whatever you like out of state as long as it's legal in that state. The jurisdiction begins when you try to bring guns back to CA.

vistula 01-19-2015 5:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Librarian (Post 15646911)
CA law has not changed on this point for 2015.

For intrafamilial (parent/child/grandparent/grandchild) inheritance, CA law allows interstate inheritance to avoid the FFL; Federal law does not have the intrafamilial restriction.

I stand corrected. Apart from intrafamilial transfers, CA law is now consistent with federal law as of 1/1/2015.

kryptonicrxn 01-25-2015 7:39 PM

Please someone clear my headache.

I have a C&R for 7 years, I plan on going to AZ to JGSales and buy a C&R pistol. Bring it back myself by method of highways. From my research, yes I may and upon return, I'd declare possession via form BCIA 4100A within 5days. Heck I'd even pre-fill it beforehand.

Here's the complication, I have been researching over a week. Most of the results on here are over 2 years old. Internet sites give conflicting info (or their members?) I even called the DOJ for clarification and the gentleman told me I also needed a COE. Uhhh, isn't this only for transaction IN-State? My FFL 03 allows me to legally buy anywhere in the other 49 states, so long as it complies with their local laws etc. I have known that the DOJ is not a reliable source because they don't enforce the law and probably not familiar with Federal laws or C&R License.

Upon return, this is where CA laws kick in. Can someone please give me a solid and answer and perhaps a reference to the CA law?

Librarian 01-26-2015 1:05 AM

When no law changes occur, thread data remains unchanged.

Quote:

I have a C&R for 7 years, I plan on going to AZ to JGSales and buy a C&R pistol. Bring it back myself by method of highways. From my research, yes I may and upon return, I'd declare possession via form BCIA 4100A within 5days. Heck I'd even pre-fill it beforehand.
This is the right procedure.

The change in the law, for 2014, requires that C&R long guns ALSO be reported on the updated version of the C&R report form, http://oag.ca.gov/sites/all/files/ag.../curioapp.pdf? Prior to 2014, only handguns needed the form.


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