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-   -   Trouble using your legal high capacity magazine? (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=410615)

Red State 03-19-2011 3:39 PM

Trouble using your legal high capacity magazine?
 
Have any of you ever run into trouble while legally using your preban magazines?

I was at a range today and they told me that I could not shoot my Mini14 while using 20 or 30 rd magazines.

The range officer told me that unless I switched to a 10rd magazine, I would have to leave. His understanding of the issue was that while high cap magazines from the 1990s were legal to own, you are not allowed to use them in your rifle - unless the specific rifle was registered as an assualt weapon.

He seemed genuinely concerned that the local sheriff/officer/ranger would really cause some trouble over this issue.

In short, is it illegal to use a lawfully possesed high capacity magazine?

santacruzstefan 03-19-2011 3:41 PM

No problem, unless using them in a fixed mag rifle.

bohoki 03-19-2011 3:43 PM

yep ocassional busybodys who seem to know the law against them

the best thing to do is say i got a permit for them as in i am permitted to use and own them


out the range and maybe someone will get to the bottom of this

SuperSet 03-19-2011 3:46 PM

Lemme guess.. Lytle Creek?

dieselpower 03-19-2011 3:49 PM

He's wrong.

only fixed magazine firearms are limited to 10rds or less, even then they are only AWs and its not illegal...only a feature of an AW, so a RAW can have a 20 & 30.

semiautomatic centerfire rifle can have a detachable 30rd magazine as long as it doesn't have other listed features are NOT AWs.

no part of large capacity magazine law states only AW use.

what range were you at?

IrishPirate 03-19-2011 3:49 PM

let us know what range so we can educate them on the laws. Nothing illegal about using hi-caps in featureless rifles, so long as they aren't fixed mags...

don't worry, you're not the first, nor will you be the last, to hear that FUD, but the range does have the right to restrict hi-caps in their place of business if that's what they want, but there's no law that says you can't use them in your rifle anywhere else.

shark92651 03-19-2011 3:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red State (Post 6037010)
His understanding of the issue was that while high cap magazines from the 1990s were legal to own, you are not allowed to use them in your rifle - unless the specific rifle was registered as an assualt weapon.

His understanding is completely wrong. While you could have registered your Mini-14 as an Assault Weapon during the registration period, if it is indeed not an assault weapon there would be no need to register it unless you wanted to add something to it that would otherwise make it an assault weapon (flash-hider, pistol grip, etc...). There is NOTHING in the law that backs up the mis-information he is feeding you.

Merc1138 03-19-2011 4:00 PM

Sounds like you need to call the range and have a chat with the management.

shadow65 03-19-2011 4:07 PM

What amazes me is the absolute ignorance politicians have regarding firearms, magazines, "assualt weapons" ect..
The bad guy robbing a house didn't go to Dicks Sporting goods and buy his weapon. He bought it on the street or stold it.
I know I'm not telling you guys anything and thank the Lord my state gun law isn't like CA. But geeze, you would think someone would wake up.:sleeping:

i<3HK 03-19-2011 4:09 PM

A reason why I mostly shoot in the desert, nobody ever bothers you, but yes I have had people tell me to take my preban mag off of my RAW.... get's pretty annoying

Librarian 03-19-2011 4:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red State (Post 6037010)
In short, is it illegal to use a lawfully possesed high capacity magazine?

No.

See this thread: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=387409

Bongos 03-19-2011 4:39 PM

which range was that... so i can avoid

MrPlink 03-19-2011 5:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red State (Post 6037010)
In short, is it illegal to use a lawfully possesed high capacity magazine?

hell, its LEGAL to use your UNAWFULY possesed hi caps in a featureless rifle even...

Red State 03-20-2011 8:35 AM

This happened at Lytle Creek. They were decent enough aboot the whole thing, and their descision to ask me to leave seemed to be based on ignorance rather than any ill will towards hicap mags, but it was still a frustrating experience. Thanks for all your replies, the range officer and office manager were so adamant, that I was actually second guessing myself for a minute.

Red State 03-20-2011 8:37 AM

Yep, good guess, SuperSet. Have you had a similair experience?

Ed_Hazard 03-20-2011 9:29 AM

^^^^^^^^^^


glockman19 03-20-2011 9:32 AM

I say boycott Lytle Creek.

JDW67 03-20-2011 9:49 AM

I already am boycotting Lytle Creek...

killshot44 03-20-2011 11:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shadow65 (Post 6037159)
I know I'm not telling you guys anything and thank the Lord my state gun law isn't like CA.

My brother-in-law is a defense attorney in Indiana. He used to practice here in CA.
Indiana is the closest thing to a police-state he has seen in the US. I read the Star online now and then, seems about right. :o

Threadjack aside, Lytle Creek needs to be schooled. Who's up for it down there?

dieselpower 03-20-2011 12:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by killshot44 (Post 6041295)
My brother-in-law is a defense attorney in Indiana. He used to practice here in CA.
Indiana is the closest thing to a police-state he has seen in the US. I read the Star online now and then, seems about right. :o

Threadjack aside, Lytle Creek needs to be schooled. Who's up for it down there?

It can not be just a bunch of mall ninja- gun guys from 4-chan or some other website. They are not going to listen or even read it.

It needs to be backed by several firearms organizations, CGF, CGN, and an Attorney to agree with what is stated in the letter and offer his services to explain in detail if needed.

A local LEO would be good too.

E Pluribus Unum 03-20-2011 12:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red State (Post 6037010)
Have any of you ever run into trouble while legally using your preban magazines?

...

In short, is it illegal to use a lawfully possesed high capacity magazine?

I might point out that it's always legal to use standard capacity magazines. Use is not prohibited, despite how they were acquired.

In short, every high capacity magazine in California is "lawfully possessed" even if it was illegally acquired.

Kerplow 03-20-2011 12:14 PM

uh oh, here comes the http://3.bp.blogspot.com/_GO70CMWk7t...unRun_1024.jpg

HBrebel 03-20-2011 12:37 PM

I say get the letter written and send it to e'm. If they reject it we should reject that range. California has gotten so crappy with places to shoot, it's either indoor 25 yard, 1 sec between shots, no rifle caliber cartridges or it's outdoor with grumpy, ignorant range nazis, no milsurp ammo, no pistol grip shotguns. Even at my local archery range they say no crossbows. That's it I am leavin' my wife and haulin *** to Vermont where they still cherish an armed citizen.

SuperSet 03-20-2011 1:10 PM

You are not the 1st member to be harassed at Lytle Creek. They really are that clueless. Someone needs to be fired.

pyro3k2 03-20-2011 2:06 PM

A few questions

1. Was the person who said you could not use your legally owned magazines a range officer or the owner of the range?
2. Could this person possibly be a new employee? or new to firearms (hopefully not if he's a range master)
3. Could this just be a simple misunderstanding on this person part.
4. What are the odds of a very polite conversation/letter with references to the PC solving the issue at hand?

If this is truely an act of anti-2A behavior then by all means we should do what ever is in our power to correct this. But if this is just indeed the actions of one misinformed person then wouldn't we be over reacting a bit. If we boycott every range/store/vendor/ect for not understanding our already very confusing gun laws we will eventually boycott everyone and everything. Really at this point the tax codes makes more sense than the weapons code in this state, I can see how this person could be confused.

Yes he works at a range and this makes it even more frustrating, but how many gun stores truely know the regulations on the products they are selling? how many have only recently started carrying OLL's and various CA legal products. Being polite and having a civil conversation about the laws here seems to be doing the trick to getting people on our side (except arsenal...****ers always hung on me when I said where I was from).

morfeeis 03-20-2011 2:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPlink (Post 6037502)
hell, its LEGAL to use your UNAWFULY possesed hi caps in a featureless rifle even...

this post alone made reading this thread worth it........

dieselpower 03-20-2011 3:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pyro3k2 (Post 6042039)
A few questions

1. Was the person who said you could not use your legally owned magazines a range officer or the owner of the range?
2. Could this person possibly be a new employee? or new to firearms (hopefully not if he's a range master)
3. Could this just be a simple misunderstanding on this person part.
4. What are the odds of a very polite conversation/letter with references to the PC solving the issue at hand?

If this is truely an act of anti-2A behavior then by all means we should do what ever is in our power to correct this. But if this is just indeed the actions of one misinformed person then wouldn't we be over reacting a bit. If we boycott every range/store/vendor/ect for not understanding our already very confusing gun laws we will eventually boycott everyone and everything. Really at this point the tax codes makes more sense than the weapons code in this state, I can see how this person could be confused.

Yes he works at a range and this makes it even more frustrating, but how many gun stores truely know the regulations on the products they are selling? how many have only recently started carrying OLL's and various CA legal products. Being polite and having a civil conversation about the laws here seems to be doing the trick to getting people on our side (except arsenal...****ers always hung on me when I said where I was from).

Well I agree, if its a misunderstanding, then there is no reason to boycott, but this isnt the first we have heard of this...at this place.

So the letter will get one of two replies.. F.O. Our range our rules or that is not our policy, I dont know what you are talking about.

Write Winger 03-20-2011 4:09 PM

What bugs the most about fellow CA gun owners is the level of zeal that they confront you with FUD. I'm about to go to a local range and my stomach gets in knots wondering how much grief I'm going to get firing my featureless AR, dropping 30rd mags. Hell, not just from other gun owners, what if a cop is there who's just as uneducated about the subject?

dieselpower 03-20-2011 7:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Write Winger (Post 6042724)
What bugs the most about fellow CA gun owners is the level of zeal that they confront you with FUD. I'm about to go to a local range and my stomach gets in knots wondering how much grief I'm going to get firing my featureless AR, dropping 30rd mags. Hell, not just from other gun owners, what if a cop is there who's just as uneducated about the subject?

Thats the funny part...There is almost zero chance of you bumping into an uneducated LEO. If you do, every single member of this form + the NRA + CGF will be backing you up. People will raise HOLY HECK in your name...

yet some guys tells people 30rd magazines are illegal and can't be used in public and those sam,e people ignore it.

Don't worry about LEO...they will probably ask to check out the rig...LOL
Worry about the Nazis who are given a pass to screw with you. Try to ignore them, but if they are in charge...just clean up and walk away. Tell them they are a cancer of FUD in the gun industry. If they ask why, just tell them because you know they are wrong, and they have been told that before.

Red State 03-20-2011 9:30 PM

To answer Pyro's questions:

1. I was told that I couldn't use the magazines by two range officers and both the old guys in the range office.

2. One of the range officers (the first one to talk to me) was new. After I told him that I was using a legal magazine in a legal firearm, he came back with the senior range officer. He and the other two were obviously not new.

3. Yes, they misunderstand the law.

4. Probably pretty good. They alluded to the fact that the AWB law was not popular and did not make any sense to them (their poor interpretation notwithstanding). They also mentioned that they had seen guys being hassled by local LEO (sheriff?) for using hicaps and that they didn't want any trouble.


All in all, I don't think that these guys were very "sophisticated" or willing to take the time to read the law themselves.

dieselpower 03-23-2011 8:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by c20rj (Post 6064981)
Oregon, washington,????, What about the original thread, any news? Is Lytle creek range a member here, I thought the owner used to post here.

there is a Calgun shoot going on there.... so toss clearing any of this up out the window. I am sure the guys at the calguns tables will be ok, but if you go back there alone, expect to be asked to leave if you use 30rd magazines..

would be nice if LC posted as to what they are doing or if this is cleared up.

check the events forum for a update on the calguns shoot.

Vinz 03-23-2011 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Red State (Post 6037010)
Have any of you ever run into trouble while legally using your preban magazines?

I was at a range today and they told me that I could not shoot my Mini14 while using 20 or 30 rd magazines.

The range officer told me that unless I switched to a 10rd magazine, I would have to leave. His understanding of the issue was that while high cap magazines from the 1990s were legal to own, you are not allowed to use them in your rifle - unless the specific rifle was registered as an assualt weapon.

He seemed genuinely concerned that the local sheriff/officer/ranger would really cause some trouble over this issue.

In short, is it illegal to use a lawfully possesed high capacity magazine?

just curious but how do you have your Mini set up? Folding stock with pistol grip or original wood stock?


Vince

JaeOne3345 03-23-2011 11:02 PM

LOL. I KNEW this was Lytle Creek as soon as I read it.

Two weeks ago I was venting to Superset about this happened to me at Lytle Creek.

The worker with the missing teeth is HORRIBLE. He got all in my face telling me featureless build was illegal and that I was gonna get "his" range shut down because previously some "god damn Mexicans" brought "full auto ak47's with grenade launchers." He said this to me as a group of Latinos were shooting legally configured Saigas and AK47 type rifles next to me.

This guy was super loud and in my face. I got super loud back, then reported his ignorant *** to the management. They handled it well and told the guy he was wrong. I got my money back and a free trip the next time I visit (yea, right).

If this is the same guy, that really sucks. He doesn't understand any of the laws. He's a real idiot.

762.DEFENSE 03-23-2011 11:10 PM

I avoid all problems by shooting in the desert. I don't bother with this state and uninformed range masters anymore. Once I finish my masters degree, I'm moving back to AZ.

Ls1FALimpala 03-24-2011 6:08 AM

Are all the ranges like this or lytle creek. I talked to the bearded old guy at LC and I never had a problem with him he's nicer to me and my group more than the other RO's. He even let's us shoot his 12ga. I'm more worried about leo's. I want to make my FAL featureless to use my preban 20rders. But I don't want a fun day at the range turn into me getting arrested.

AndrewMendez 03-24-2011 8:20 AM

Damn, I wrote a long response, and I clicked the back browser button on my cell phone by accident. I will personally look into this. Don't allow a badly misinformed RO to scare you into thinking you are doing something illegal, and DO NOT make it the reason you don't come to the calguns lytle creek shoot.

Head416 03-24-2011 9:06 AM

I watched a US Forest Service officer arrest a shooter at Lytle Creek last month. (The guy 'left his bullet button at home'... oops.) Disclaimer: I've only been there a few times and am not familiar with whatever ongoing problems have been going on.

I'm not defending their actions, but imagine you're running a range (leased on BLM land I believe) and officers are patrolling your range looking for law violations. We're in a state with very obscure and confusing laws, with law enforcement, judiciary, and legislators all looking for an opportunity to stick it to anybody that crosses a line. I've heard stories of ranges being shutdown or closed down 'temporarily' indefinitely. Just the other day I read a post by somebody getting harassed on BLM land.

If I were in their position, I would be paranoid as hell. I would not allow something to happen on my range unless I were 100% sure that it was legal.

Having said that, it is their responsibility to know the laws and stop harassing people. Because they're on BLM land, to me it's different than a regular private range. Meaning, the right to make up your own rules is out the window.

You also have to consider that a range could be shut down and owners prosecuted even if no law was broken. There's a lot of 'interpretation' that goes on and getting it settled can be a lengthy and costly process. That's where the "fight" comes in, and yes I agree that it is worth the fight, but not something to step into lightly.

It would be nice if somebody well-versed in the laws with plenty of supporting documentation could have a sit-down with the manager.

bwiese 03-24-2011 9:14 AM

If someone has Lytle Creek range *management* contact information I would be glad to "have a CGF chat" with them.

PM me w/details

rodeoflyer 03-24-2011 9:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrPlink (Post 6037502)
hell, its LEGAL to use your UNAWFULY possesed hi caps in a featureless rifle even...

UNAWFULY? :)


They can't be unlawfully posessed. They can only be unlawfully manufactured, imported, or sold. ;)

dilligaffrn 03-24-2011 9:30 AM

Point them to or print out and hand them...

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/pubfaqs.php#5

If I have a large-capacity magazine, do I need to get rid of it?

9. No. Continued possession of large-capacity magazines (able to accept more than 10 rounds) that you owned in California before January 1, 2000, is not prohibited. However as of January 1, 2000, it is illegal to buy, manufacture, import, keep for sale, expose for sale, give or lend any large-capacity magazine in California except by law enforcement agencies, California peace officers, or licensed dealers.

(PC Section 12020 (b)(19-29))

or have them read CPC 12020 12020 (b)(19-29) if literate


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