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-   -   Santa Barbara (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=352796)

Gray Peterson 10-15-2010 12:04 AM

Santa Barbara
 
Anyone who gets denied in Santa Barbara Co (either by a city's PD or by the Sheriff's Office), and wants to fight it should read the following quote from my ("Paladin") post in the Monterey Co thread. (There they accept SD as GC, but push the GMC requirement.) The 14th Amendment Equal Protection applies to ALL aspects of the application process, not just GC and GMC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladin (Post 16276894)
So, they say SD = GC, but then push GMC through the roof and, it appears, make your RKBA subject to your neighbors', co-workers' and friends' ratification.... :facepalm: :mad:

If Bernal does NOT follow this same procedure with ALL CCW applicants (think political donors, "friends of the sheriff"/"posse" members, politicians, celebrities), he's open for a Guillory-type 14th A Equal Protection federal lawsuit, but for GMC rather than GC.

Hypothetically, let's say there's a world-famous film star (and director) who lives in (and was once the mayor of) Carmel-By-The-Sea, a city which, acc to CGF's 2013 survey, does not issue CCWs. We'll call him "Mr. E." Let's suppose Mr. E has a Monterey SO CCW. When it is/was time to renew, if the sheriff has the same policy for renewals that means his "background investigator" would have to go to Mr. E's neighbors (who, unlike his friends, may be hard-core antis), and "ask them if they would recommend [Mr. E] be issued a CCW permit." Not only would the same procedure have to be followed, but the same standard as to judging whether to issue or not be followed. IOW, let's say 1 of your neighbors says "Nyet!" when asked if you should get a CCW and because of that you are denied. If 1 of Mr. E's neighbors also said "No!" and yet was issued, that too is a 14th A Equal Protection violation.


CCWFacts 10-19-2010 11:12 PM

I only know a few things about Santa Barbara. One, Sheriff Brown got the NRA endorsement and then stabbed gun owners in the back by not issuing CCWs. Two, there are a lot of extremely wealthy people in Santa Barbara, including some uber-wealthy uber-powerful liberals, like Oprah. You stir that into the pot, you're bound to have some really ugly things in their files.

TBJ did some extensive research into the city of Santa Maria, and found some unbelievably wrong and bad things going on there. I've posted the entire case, including all the good cause statements.

No surprise, Chief Macagni runs it in a very corrupt way, to the point that dentists, who are SMPD donors, have good cause, while highly trained nuclear security guards, who are first responders at Diablo Canyon, and who have assault weapons as their duty weapons, but who are not SMPD donors, miraculously do not have good cause.

It's sad. It's stuff that should end Chief Macagni's career, but unfortunately, the prevailing mindset, at many levels, is that it's the chief's business and he can do as he pleases.

gtturborex 10-28-2010 7:55 PM

Lets fix this. I guess I'm the only one who cares enough about this in SB to donate.

SB back to the top.

Milsurps 10-30-2010 9:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtturborex (Post 5206439)
Lets fix this. I guess I'm the only one who cares enough about this in SB to donate.

SB back to the top.

I'd like to, but how? I won't deal with the gpal n paypal scams ! :mad:

I've recently started automatic monthly donations to Calguns Foundation with bill pay because of a physical address.

Please advise.

Gray Peterson 10-30-2010 10:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Orcutt (Post 5214225)
I'd like to, but how? I won't deal with the gpal n paypal scams ! :mad:

I've recently started automatic monthly donations to Calguns Foundation with bill pay because of a physical address.

Please advise.

You can donate via paper tool:

The Calguns Foundation
751 Laurel Street Suite 935
San Carlos, CA 94070-3113

Just make it clear that you're donating a sponsorship to a particular county and whether or not you want it anon or not.

gtturborex 10-30-2010 5:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray Peterson (Post 5214658)
You can donate via paper tool:

The Calguns Foundation
751 Laurel Street Suite 935
San Carlos, CA 94070-3113

Just make it clear that you're donating a sponsorship to a particular county and whether or not you want it anon or not.

Thanks Gray!!!

mustang454 11-02-2010 2:41 PM

Goleta,CA CCW NRA backed Bill Brown
 
Myself and a hand full of people i know have HAD a CCW here in Goleta for many years...for me it was 8 years. That all changed when Bill brown became sheriff here in Goleta,CA.
NRA indorsed Bill Brown, even when told many months ahead of time before the election that he is anti gun. NRA sent out a orange mailer to NRA membeers here in Santa Barbara county to vote for Bill Brown. ...see link.........http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2008/0...after-all.html ...............and............... http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2007/0...nying-ccw.html.

? Is calgun going to help get CCW,s back for people here in Goleta,CA that Brown denied renewals? If so i will contact people i know who had CCWs and ask for them to donate to the cause here in Goleta/Santa Barbara,CA.

mustang454 11-02-2010 3:02 PM

Goleta CCW
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Comp^2 (Post 5231074)
A CCW requires a full set of prints? And do I remember something about requiring letters of references being illegal? So many hoops....and chances are you'd probably get denied anyway.

Been there done that all....passed all the requirements set forth for SB the first time i applied and got my CCW... this was a renewal (every two years )since first getting my CCW.Bill Brown is the problem....Two former sheriffs of Santa Barbara county issued and renewed my CCW ...no problem till Brown got in. Bill Brown is anti gun and was backed by NRA.

Gray Peterson 11-02-2010 3:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustang454 (Post 5231175)
Been there done that all....passed all the requirements set forth for SB the first time i applied and got my CCW... this was a renewal (every two years )since first getting my CCW.Bill Brown is the problem....Two former sheriffs of Santa Barbara county issued and renewed my CCW ...no problem till Brown got in. Bill Brown is anti gun and was backed by NRA.

Another Fairfax PVF screwup. He didn't get the endorsement again in 2010.

mustang454 11-02-2010 7:05 PM

CCW
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray Peterson (Post 5231314)
Another Fairfax PVF screwup. He didn't get the endorsement again in 2010.

No one ran against him.....personal i don't believe it was a screw up.

gtturborex 11-02-2010 9:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustang454 (Post 5231020)
? Is calgun going to help get CCW,s back for people here in Goleta,CA that Brown denied renewals? If so i will contact people i know who had CCWs and ask for them to donate to the cause here in Goleta/Santa Barbara,CA.

I believe this is the ultimate goal. Contact your friends and lets do this.

What was the reason given for the denial of your renewal if I may ask?

wildhawker 11-03-2010 1:04 AM

Get your friends involved. The more information we have as to their good cause, moral character, etc., the better we can create strategy for that county.

mustang454 11-03-2010 10:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtturborex (Post 5233550)
I believe this is the ultimate goal. Contact your friends and lets do this.

What was the reason given for the denial of your renewal if I may ask?

Bill Brown said that my reason is not a valid reason...funny my reason was valid the fist time i applied and got my CCW from the first sheriff and the second sherriff that won election and renewed no problem every time till now... .... and now the third one Bill Brown said reason is not valid. see link......http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2008/0...after-all.html

gtturborex 11-03-2010 3:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustang454 (Post 5236882)
Bill Brown said that my reason is not a valid reason...funny my reason was valid the fist time i applied and got my CCW from the first sheriff and the second sherriff that won election and renewed no problem every time till now... .... and now the third one Bill Brown said reason is not valid. see link......http://waronguns.blogspot.com/2008/0...after-all.html

Wow, it seems Bill Brown's reason for not renewing your CCW is the invalid reason. I hope Brown gets what he deserves, a swift kick in the ____, I mean a kick out the door.

gtturborex 11-24-2010 6:55 PM

All this CCW talk is getting me excited!!! Any news or a time frame for Santa Barbara?

Thanks for all the hard work:D

wildhawker 11-26-2010 12:21 AM

Santa Barbara good cause statements will be posted sometime around next (not this coming, but the following) weekend.

gtturborex 11-27-2010 9:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildhawker (Post 5354865)
Santa Barbara good cause statements will be posted sometime around next (not this coming, but the following) weekend.

Thanks for all your great work Brandon!!!

Barrelmon 11-29-2010 1:54 PM

I am another Goleta Shooter that holds interest in this. BTT

P.W. 11-30-2010 2:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildhawker (Post 5354865)
Santa Barbara good cause statements will be posted sometime around next (not this coming, but the following) weekend.

Can't wait, keep up the great work!!!

P.W. 12-04-2010 3:55 PM

A Letter sent to a local Newspaper "Independent" focused on the subject of Carrying via Open Carry and Concealed. I thought I'd post it as it pertains to our County.
http://www.independent.com/news/2010...can-carry-gun/

Kid Stanislaus 12-04-2010 6:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P.W. (Post 5394994)
A Letter sent to a local Newspaper "Independent" focused on the subject of Carrying via Open Carry and Concealed. I thought I'd post it as it pertains to our County.
http://www.independent.com/news/2010...can-carry-gun/

Nice work, PW.

P.W. 12-04-2010 7:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kid Stanislaus (Post 5395766)
Nice work, PW.

Just to clear this up, I am not the author of that letter. But I will take credit for posting it in this forum ;)

dantodd 12-06-2010 2:11 AM

Good Cause statements are now Here

P.W. 12-06-2010 3:04 AM

Thanks Gray, Wildhawker, dantodd, and the rest of the crew for getting the Good Cause Statements up and all the work you guys are doing.

From the looks of those Good Cause Statements for SB County, it seems all except for a few FFL holders and Business Owners being Issued/Renewing their CCWs Most of those applications being accepted are either current/former employee's of the Sheriffs Dept. and or Former LEOs. Can't wait to hear what the next steps are for furthering this initiative in this county :D.

choprzrul 12-06-2010 6:36 AM

Read through them. There is one that opens kinda like "Good Cause: Personal Protection" and then starts a background section after that. It only takes 1 to set precedent under equal protection.

Fjold 12-06-2010 6:43 AM

For you guys in Lompoc; new city council members are coming into office and I've just informed some of them of how the Police Chief can issue CCWs in spite of Brown's opinions. There might be a change going on there.

gtturborex 12-06-2010 6:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fjold (Post 5401853)
For you guys in Lompoc; new city council members are coming into office and I've just informed some of them of how the Police Chief can issue CCWs in spite of Brown's opinions. There might be a change going on there.

Did you talk to Dirk by chance? He's a very cool guy and I am glad he got on to city council.

wildhawker 12-06-2010 12:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by choprzrul (Post 5401839)
Read through them. There is one that opens kinda like "Good Cause: Personal Protection" and then starts a background section after that. It only takes 1 to set precedent under equal protection.

EP cases are not the slam dunk they are sometimes made out to be. Facts must be very clear in order for them to have any real utility. They are also expensive.

Accordingly, any EP challenges must be carefully considered and appropriately supported.

gtturborex 12-06-2010 2:32 PM

All the 76 pages seem to be from either LEOs or FFLs. What if we don't have any of those backrounds?

Also page 43 the applicant states he would like the permit for protection of his property. I thought we aren't able to protect property only life?

mustang454 12-06-2010 5:31 PM

CCW and FFL
 
I know one FFL holder who kept his CCW here in Goleta/Santa Barbara ca.when Sheriff Bill Brown got elected BUT with sever restrictions on his CCW. No restrictions on CCW's before Brown got elected......


Quote:

Originally Posted by gtturborex (Post 5403766)
All the 76 pages seem to be from either LEOs or FFLs. What if we don't have any of those backrounds?

Also page 43 the applicant states he would like the permit for protection of his property. I thought we aren't able to protect property only life?


choprzrul 12-06-2010 6:03 PM

Page 19:

Quote:

Cause for need of CCW Permit is simply: PERSONAL PROTECTION
What am I missing? None of us can leave our houses without being in close proximity to thugs at some point. We need CCW for personal protection.

.

wildhawker 12-06-2010 6:52 PM

Hang tight in SB.

gtturborex 12-07-2010 6:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mustang454 (Post 5404711)
I know one FFL holder who kept his CCW here in Goleta/Santa Barbara ca.when Sheriff Bill Brown got elected BUT with sever restrictions on his CCW. No restrictions on CCW's before Brown got elected......

With a lot of restrictions. To, during, and from work only? Isn't this overly restrictive for a right?

gtturborex 12-07-2010 6:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildhawker (Post 5405135)
Hang tight in SB.

Thanks again Brandon. Holding tight here...

Fjold 12-07-2010 7:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gtturborex (Post 5401868)
Did you talk to Dirk by chance? He's a very cool guy and I am glad he got on to city council.


Dirk is one of my best friends. Ask him about our hunting trip to Wyoming.

dswenk 12-30-2010 10:55 AM

CCWs no allowed in Santa Barbara County
 
I recently requested information on getting a CCW in Santa Barbara county, here is the reply I got. Sheriff Brown is not a friend to the 2nd Amendment and his policy is not to issue CCWs.


Mr. Swenk,
This is some information I sent to another person inquiring about the issuance of CCW's in Santa Barbara County. It should answer most of your questions. Feel free to contact me with any questions and I will be your point of contact should you decide to apply for the CCW. - Craig


Thank you for taking the time to contact our agency. Sheriff Brown takes the issuance of concealed carry (CCW) permits very seriously. Sheriff Brown personally reviews and evaluates each CCW application. Sheriff Brown supports the 2nd amendment to the United States Constitution (Right to bear arms). However, there are three levels of law that come into play in this subject matter; federal, state and local law. The current federal interpretation of the second amendment pertains to firearms ownership and leaves "carry" laws to the individual states. The State of California has two laws that prohibit generalized concealed and/ or loaded carry of a firearm.
Section 12025 of the California Penal code - Makes it unlawful to possess a concealed firearm on your person and/ or in your vehicle.
Section 12031 of the California Penal code - Makes it unlawful to carry a loaded firearm on one’s person or in a vehicle while in any public place, on any public street, or in any place where it is unlawful to discharge a firearm. OF NOTE: This does not apply when you are at your residence and/ or within your place of business (if owner or with permission of owner).
Unless a specific exemption is present (for example the possession of a CCW permit, or while participating in target shooting activities at an established shooting range) both 12025 and 12031 apply.

----------

Which brings us to the subject of the issuance of concealed carry (CCW) permits. Section 12050 of the California Penal Code (State Law) addresses the issuance of CCW permits. Section 12050 PC indicates the county sheriff "MAY" issue a CCW if the applicant is of "good moral character" AND shows "good cause" exists for the issuance of the permit. I have highlighted "may" and "good cause" to bring your attention to them, as they are limiting factors in the issuance of concealed carry permits in the State of California.

Other states have "SHALL" issue laws relating to the issuance of concealed carry permits (example: Florida), but that is not the case in California. California Law requires that CCW applicants show "good cause" exists for the issuance of a CCW permit. Furthermore, California Law leaves the ultimate decision of CCW issuance to each individual Sheriff ("May" issue). As result of this decision making "ability", the county sheriff (both as an individual and their department as a whole) incurs potential civil liability for each and every concealed carry permit they issue.

To that end:
As a general rule, Sheriff Brown (and most other Sheriff's in California) only issues CCW permits under the following circumstances:
The applicant's job, or business requires that he/ she have the ability to possess a loaded and concealed firearm, or otherwise poses a threat to society as a whole if the applicant does not have this ability. Examples of this are be private investigators and licensed firearms dealers.
The applicant is in present and credible danger to their life or the lives of their family members.
Although these are the two circumstances in which it is likely Sheriff Brown would issue a CCW, any person not specifically prohibited from doing so may submit a CCW application for Sheriff Brown's review. Any such application should be forwarded to me. Upon receipt, I will present the application and supporting materials to Sheriff Brown for his review.

I am including several resources and documents for your review/ consideration. These include the standard DOJ CCW application and information relating to the SBSO policy and procedures relating to CCW's. I am also including hyperlinks to the CA DOJ website and to the NRA website, both of which contain a great deal of information relating to this subject.

http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/
http://www.nraila.org/GunLaws/


If you have any questions about this, please feel free to contact me directly via email, or by telephone. - Craig
Sergeant Craig Bonner
Santa Barbara Sheriff's Department
Office of Professional Standards
(805) 681-4292

GrizzlyGuy 12-30-2010 11:39 AM

Quoting from the reply:

Quote:

Originally Posted by dswenk (Post 5527422)
Sheriff Brown supports the 2nd amendment to the United States Constitution (Right to bear arms).

This shows once again why such a statement is meaningless. Obviously this isn't true.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dswenk (Post 5527422)
As result of this decision making "ability", the county sheriff (both as an individual and their department as a whole) incurs potential civil liability for each and every concealed carry permit they issue.

Are they not aware of Section 6 in the standard application?:

Quote:

Section 6 – Agreement to Restrictions and to Hold Harmless

I accept and assume all responsibility and liability for, injury to, or death of any person, or damage to any property which may result through any act or omission of either the licensee or the agency that issued the license. In the event any claim, suit or action is brought against the agency that issued the license, its chief officer or any of its employees, by reason of, or in connection with any such act or omission, the licensee shall defend, indemnify, and hold harmless the agency that issued the license, its chief officer or any of its employees from such claim, suit, or action...
Seems to me that their most significant civil liability comes from continuing to inhibit civil rights by pursuing their hardly-ever-issue policy. :rolleyes:

Queue bwiese: 'when you absolutely-positively need to sue every *** in the room' :43:

gtturborex 12-30-2010 12:58 PM

It is not like we are asking for sharks with "laser" beams attached to their heads.

All we want is our god given "rights"

Sounds like this county may be a little tougher than thought.

Only two weeks right?:D

gpsmatt 12-30-2010 1:15 PM

Glad to see this I will be donating.

jordan 12-30-2010 1:26 PM

yes, very glad to see some progress in our county finally.

I will be making a contribution as well. lets take some action on this.


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