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-   -   Monterey *** TIME TO APPLY!!! (w/caveat) *** (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=352771)

obeygiant 10-14-2010 10:21 PM

Monterey *** TIME TO APPLY!!! (w/caveat) ***
 
(deleted outdated info/links)

UPDATE (2015 May 10):
If you go thru p. 5 of this thread, you'll see that Sheriff Bernal has followed Sheriff Miller's CCW policy of accepting "self-defense" (SD), aka "personal protection", as sufficient Good Cause (GC) and has a radically increased the burden of Good Moral Character (GMC) (thus the "caveat" in the title). Nonetheless, if a law-abiding resident merely wants -- not "needs" -- a CCW, you should be able to get one if you pass the sheriff's unreasonable GMC requirements.

After the quote from the sheriff's CCW webpage I post how the SO and county may be liable to a federal civil rights lawsuit if they do not follow said policy and apply the same GMC standard to ALL CCW applicants. That's in case someone in Monterey Co gets denied and wants to fight to get a CCW. :chris:

Here is the CCW policy currently posted on Sheriff Bernal's website (https://www.montereysheriff.org/CCW/) (emphasis added):
Quote:

A MESSAGE FROM MONTEREY COUNTY REGARDING CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMITS

The purpose of this message is to give individuals interested in obtaining a Carry Concealed Weapon Permit (CCW) an idea of the standards and process for successfully obtaining one from the Monterey County Sheriff’s Office.

Historically many people have applied for a CCW with little idea as to whether or not their request would be successful. Often the unknown element centers on the State of California’s requirement to show “good cause” in order to obtain a CCW. The standard of “good cause” varies widely from county to county. In my opinion, “personal protection” should suffice to establish the good cause standard.

However, with this standard comes a requirement that the background process be more thorough and rigorous than has been the case in the past. At some point during your application process, a background investigator will contact a sampling of your neighbors, family and co-workers to determine your suitability to carry a concealed weapon. We will advise the people we contact of the reason for the contact, and ask them if they would recommend you be issued a CCW permit.

While this may seem intrusive to some, I believe that with an expanded definition of “good cause” (that applies to virtually every lawful resident of the County) comes a higher level of due diligence on our part to ensure we are not issuing CCW permits to individuals who shouldn’t have one. Those individuals who have lived an upstanding life in every respect and enjoy a well-earned reputation among their neighbors, co-workers and friends should have little problem successfully getting through our process.

Please read through the additional requirements to obtain a CCW permit carefully before submitting your application. If you choose to continue the process I hope this message provides some clarity regarding your chances for successfully obtaining a CCW permit.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladin (Post 16276894)
If Bernal does NOT follow this same procedure with ALL CCW applicants (think political donors, "friends of the sheriff"/"posse" members, politicians, celebrities), he's open for a Guillory-type 14th A Equal Protection lawsuit, but for GMC rather than GC.

Hypothetically, let's say there's a world-famous film star (and director) who lives in (and was once the mayor of) Carmel-By-The-Sea, a city which, acc to CGF's 2013 survey, does not issue CCWs. We'll call him "Mr. E." Let's suppose Mr. E has a Monterey SO CCW. When it is/was time to renew, if the sheriff has the same policy for renewals that means his "background investigator" would have to go to Mr. E's neighbors (who, unlike his friends, may be hard-core antis), and "ask them if they would recommend [Mr. E] be issued a CCW permit." Not only would the same procedure have to be followed, but the same standard as to judging whether to issue or not be followed. IOW, let's say 1 of your neighbors says "Nyet!" when asked if you should get a CCW and because of that you are denied. If 1 of Mr. E's neighbors also said "No!" and yet was issued, that too is a 14th A Equal Protection violation.

UPDATE (2015 July 04): Acc to post #179, a "psychological assessment" is no longer required (even though their website still says it is). This is good news because that saves applicants $150.00 and the time, effort and inconvenience of driving to and from "Law Enforcement Psychological Services" in Los Gatos (even though they say below an applicant can use "any Psychologist licensed" in CA).

Quote:

Psychological Assessment: A Psychological Assessment will be administered by Law Enforcement Psychological Services. The applicant will be given appointment information after successfully completing the Personal Interview. Applicants are responsible for paying the $150.00 fee to Law Enforcement Psychological Services at the time of their appointment. Results of the assessment will be sent to the Monterey County Sheriff’s Office.
(emphasis added) From: https://www.montereysheriff.org/ccw/ccw-procedures/

Quote:

Applicants for a Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) permit are welcome to be evaluated by any Psychologist licensed in the State of California. The Sheriff’s office currently uses Psychological Services Inc, based in Los Gatos, for its CCW psychological screening. This can also be utilized as an appeal to a submitted psychological examination for CCW.
(emphasis added) From: https://www.montereysheriff.org/ccw/ccw-psych/

whisk.e.rebellion 10-20-2010 8:13 AM

The PDF under "Local CCW Policy, Guidelines & Forms" is completely blank except for the CalGuns cover page. Is this just a placeholder document?

obeygiant 10-20-2010 7:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by whisk.e.rebellion (Post 5157933)
The PDF under "Local CCW Policy, Guidelines & Forms" is completely blank except for the CalGuns cover page. Is this just a placeholder document?

Try right clicking on the link below and selecting "save as" or "save link as" (if you're using firefox) to download it directly rather than opening it in your browser.

Monterey Policies and Forms

dantodd 11-22-2010 9:57 AM

Found this interesting article from back in 1998

http://www.montereycountyweekly.com/...1967/1/@@index

Blackhawk556 11-22-2010 11:59 AM

So it's ok to post the names of ccw applicants in a newspaper but Ventura county doesn't want to give up the applications because of identity theft?

Cgf is removing all personal info so they really don't have case

wildhawker 11-22-2010 12:00 PM

Newspapers are about sensational headlines and controversy.

We are boring and just want information to advance everyone's civil rights so it's a non-story.

dantodd 12-02-2010 2:06 AM

Good cause statements are now available Here.

Purple K 12-02-2010 2:08 AM

Sweet!!!

Blackhawk556 12-02-2010 3:35 PM

from everything i've read so far, it looks like you need to carry LARGE amounts of cash, work for that aero company, a D.A., or have documented threats against you

goober 12-05-2010 10:38 AM

yep, seems like bein in the "Aerosquadron" has been the sure-fire ticket to a CCW...

dantodd 12-05-2010 11:12 AM

The aerosquadron isn't an aerospace company, it is a sheriffs volunteer group.

rtlltj 01-16-2011 5:29 PM

Anyone from Monterey County try applying for a CCW since Miller took office?

goober 01-16-2011 7:16 PM

i haven't yet, but soon.... :D

Tripper 02-01-2011 7:33 PM

I have recently applied in Mid January.

There is no new direction by the Sheriff regarding the application process or what is considered 'good cause'. The person that takes the applications is operating in 'business as usual' mode, and from what I could gather, it sounds as if 'personal protection' is not sufficient cause.

I am aware that 'Candidate Miller' stated that 'personal protection' was sufficient cause at one of the debates, at this time the administration is still under transition, and it doesn't appear that this issue is a priority.

I might be able to answer specific questions via PM.

Tripper

goober 02-01-2011 8:17 PM

Thanks for the update, working on my app now. Keep us posted!

Ocular_Trauma 02-17-2011 5:01 PM

Quite interested, please keep us informed of developments with the new Sheriff. It's starting to seem as though living in certain parts of the county would be 'good cause' enough :(

blofeld42 02-26-2011 3:22 PM

If by "certain parts of the county" you mean downtown Monterey. Sheesh, shootouts outside the Mucky Duck.

SLYoteBoy 02-26-2011 3:33 PM

any new updates? havent seen this thread untill today. And why do the good cause statements seem like 90% are written in the third person?

xrMike 03-15-2011 7:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SLYoteBoy (Post 5895376)
And why do the good cause statements seem like 90% are written in the third person?

I was wondering about that too... Seems like many of them were not even written by the applicants themselves, but were relayed orally to some other person, who then wrote down his own interpretation of what he heard.

That seems highly irregular to me. You'd think good cause would be documented in the EXACT words of the applicant. In his own hand.

Blackhawk556 03-24-2011 1:48 PM

Miller needs to step up to the plate to see if he's worthy of being a sheriff who will stand by the 2A.

rojocorsa 03-24-2011 2:12 PM

Not 21, so haven't got a clue of what's going on. I don't have a pistol either, so this is really a moot point for me.


But I wish my fellow residents some luck.

Tripper 05-06-2011 9:58 PM

The policy is being reviewed

xrMike 05-07-2011 5:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripper (Post 6349245)
The policy is being reviewed

Still? It's been that way for months, ever since the new sheriff was elected... ???

goober 05-07-2011 5:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by xrMike (Post 6353108)
Still? It's been that way for months, ever since the new sheriff was elected... ???

Yes. Still.
I know it seems like it's taking an awful long time... That's because it IS.
Rest assured efforts are being made to help move the process forward.
That's all I can say right now.
Stay tuned.

goober 05-10-2011 6:37 PM

Monterey - CCW Applicants Needed for Action
 
Are you ready to apply for a CCW permit in Monterey County? Do you meet the basic qualifications (not a prohibited person, good moral character)?

If so, please contact me (goober) by PM so that you can be added to the list of Monterey County constituents that are ready to apply and unable to do so because the Monterey County Sheriff's Office (MCSO) is currently not accepting CCW applications while they review and revise their policy.

This list will be used if necessary to communicate to MCSO the number of qualified constituents that are effectively being denied consideration for a CCW permit by MCSO's ongoing refusal to accept applications.

At this point your CGN screen name is all that is needed; however, when the letter is drafted and the signatory list compiled, your full information (name and address) will be required. Please do not sign up for this action if you are not willing to participate fully by contributing your information and signing the letter at a later date.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL CGF ACTION. IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED WITH AND APPROVED BY SUNSHINE INITIATIVE LEADERSHIP, BUT IS NOT OFFICIALLY SANCTIONED.


Making Monterey County "shall issue" was a cornerstone promise of candidate Miller in his campaign for Sheriff, which he won with our help.
Word has it that while Miller intends to follow through and make good on his promise, there is some degree of hesitation and worry in the MCSO office as a whole regarding this drastic change in policy (Monterey County has historically been on the "difficult" end of the "may-issue" spectrum). Towards that end, MCSO is attempting to revise their policies; however, they seem to be plagued by planning paralysis, and 5 months after being sworn in, Miller's office is still not accepting CCW applications. While it is understandable that it takes some time to revise the longstanding policies of the past, it is time to get past this stumbling point and begin accepting applications.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.

wildhawker 05-10-2011 11:26 PM

All,

Please do help goober if you are able. He is extraordinarily capable and I trust him implicitly.

-Brandon

Quote:

Originally Posted by goober (Post 6372135)
Are you ready to apply for a CCW permit in Monterey County? Do you meet the basic qualifications (not a prohibited person, good moral character)?

If so, please contact me (goober) by PM so that you can be added to the list of Monterey County constituents that are ready to apply and unable to do so because the Monterey County Sheriff's Office (MCSO) is currently not accepting CCW applications while they review and revise their policy.

This list will be used if necessary to communicate to MCSO the number of qualified constituents that are effectively being denied consideration for a CCW permit by MCSO's ongoing refusal to accept applications.

At this point your CGN screen name is all that is needed; however, when the letter is drafted and the signatory list compiled, your full information (name and address) will be required. Please do not sign up for this action if you are not willing to participate fully by contributing your information and signing the letter at a later date.

NOTE: THIS IS NOT AN OFFICIAL CGF ACTION. IT HAS BEEN DISCUSSED WITH AND APPROVED BY SUNSHINE INITIATIVE LEADERSHIP, BUT IS NOT OFFICIALLY SANCTIONED.


Making Monterey County "shall issue" was a cornerstone promise of candidate Miller in his campaign for Sheriff, which he won with our help.
Word has it that while Miller intends to follow through and make good on his promise, there is some degree of hesitation and worry in the MCSO office as a whole regarding this drastic change in policy (Monterey County has historically been on the "difficult" end of the "may-issue" spectrum). Towards that end, MCSO is attempting to revise their policies; however, they seem to be plagued by planning paralysis, and 5 months after being sworn in, Miller's office is still not accepting CCW applications. While it is understandable that it takes some time to revise the longstanding policies of the past, it is time to get past this stumbling point and begin accepting applications.

Feel free to PM me with any questions.


goober 05-13-2011 11:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildhawker (Post 6373997)
All,

Please do help goober if you are able. He is extraordinarily capable and I trust him implicitly.

-Brandon

Thank you Brandon!

Folks, PM me to sign up or for more information.

short circuit 05-13-2011 8:04 PM

I also am going to try to get the CCW as soon as the become available for good cause = self defence of self an/or family. I do hope Sheriff Miller speeds up the process here and does indeed go to shall issue for self defence.

goober 05-16-2011 7:40 PM

Thanks to those who have stepped up to be included in this action.
Can still use some more folks to add weight to the letter. PM me to sign up.
Stay tuned, will hopefully have some news this Friday regarding MCSO's plans going forward.
Can't say more at this time.

wildhawker 05-16-2011 9:20 PM

Bumping this again. Monterey residents, please strongly consider assisting goober with his efforts.

-Brandon

goober 05-23-2011 10:46 AM

UPDATE - MCSO To Begin Accepting Applications June 1st
 
The Monterey County Sheriff's Office has apparently finished their review and revision of CCW application and evaluation policies.
According to the Commander now in charge of handling applications, the standard DoJ application form will be accepted; A LiveScan and personal interview will be required as well, per typical procedures used by most granting agencies. Whether any additional paperwork, evaluations, or formalities are going to be requested by MCSO is not clear yet. The application process will be handled by the Backgrounds Investigation unit.

The target date for beginning to accept applications is June 1st, 2011. The Background Investigation unit has new leadership and they need a week to get organized. They did say that they appreciate that there are many applicants that have been waiting some time to apply, and want to get the process started as quickly as possible.
Hopefully things will go as planned and we'll all be able to apply starting in a little more than a week, and MCSO will fulfill Sheriff Miller's campaign promise.

Stay tuned. Those of you that stepped up to be included in the action, stand by. We may not need to follow though with that plan, but will if conditions warrant it.

koemandoe 05-23-2011 8:31 PM

Standing by :cool2:

lrcasey 05-24-2011 9:38 AM

Thank you! Standing by as well.

short circuit 05-24-2011 7:24 PM

Standing by....

goober 06-01-2011 9:06 PM

Spoke to MCSO today, as June 1st was supposed to be the date when they would begin accepting applications. Was advised that they need "a bit more time" to make "a few last revisions" and add a cover letter and instructions to the applicant packet.
As they have taken my name and number, they assured me that they would notify me when they are ready for me to apply.
Let's give them another week, and if they're still not ready by then, its time to speak up as a group.
Note: I have no idea if anyone at MCSO reads this stuff. If they do it would be easy for at least some of them to figure out who I am, based on the timing of my comms with them and these posts. So be it. What we're doing here does not need to be covert, or deceptive in any way. We simply want the right to apply for CCW permits, and fair evaluation of those permits under the "shalll issue" policy Sheriff Miller promised us when he was still a candidate asking for our votes.
First step is get them to begin accepting applications. Seems almost ridiculous to even need to list that as a step, but that's where we are.
Next step is to see how well they honor their promises.
Stay tuned.

wildhawker 06-02-2011 3:47 PM

Maybe they should be informed of our model policy and SF's unfortunate position...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=440281

Quote:

Originally Posted by goober (Post 6514658)
Spoke to MCSO today, as June 1st was supposed to be the date when they would begin accepting applications. Was advised that they need "a bit more time" to make "a few last revisions" and add a cover letter and instructions to the applicant packet.
As they have taken my name and number, they assured me that they would notify me when they are ready for me to apply.
Let's give them another week, and if they're still not ready by then, its time to speak up as a group.
Note: I have no idea if anyone at MCSO reads this stuff. If they do it would be easy for at least some of them to figure out who I am, based on the timing of my comms with them and these posts. So be it. What we're doing here does not need to be covert, or deceptive in any way. We simply want the right to apply for CCW permits, and fair evaluation of those permits under the "shalll issue" policy Sheriff Miller promised us when he was still a candidate asking for our votes.
First step is get them to begin accepting applications. Seems almost ridiculous to even need to list that as a step, but that's where we are.
Next step is to see how well they honor their promises.
Stay tuned.


goober 06-02-2011 5:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildhawker (Post 6519144)
Maybe they should be informed of our model policy and SF's unfortunate position...

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=440281

Nice! And you can bet I will so inform them... :D

Tripper 06-03-2011 7:10 AM

I would think it better to do so now rather than wait fir them to make the policy first then have to go through the whole process of reviewing a new policy

Tripper 06-03-2011 7:11 AM

I'm referring to the recommending new policy

goober 06-03-2011 7:57 AM

Well until we actually see the new policy they are adopting, it may be presumptuous to suggest they look at the CGF model...
They have stated they have approved a new policy, so that's apparently a done deal.
Once we see what it is, we'll know if they need to be "encouraged" to consider something else.
Hopefully if it comes to that they will be much swifter at reviewing and adopting the 2nd time around :p


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