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-   -   Los Angeles - APPLY to Get a Spot in Line (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=352761)

obeygiant 10-14-2010 10:17 PM

Los Angeles - APPLY to Get a Spot in Line
 
Los Angeles County CCW Policy and Application:
http://shq.lasdnews.net/content/uoa/...censPolicy.pdf

UPDATE (2015 March 01): Per the info in the image of SO's letter in posts #414 and #594 (the latter linked here: http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...7#post15817677), I've updated the title to this thread and its icon. The SO is accepting and holding apps using "self-defense" as Good Cause until Peruta is finalized. You should apply now to "get a place in line", so to speak, before a flood of applications get submitted once Peruta is finalized.

If you have Good Cause beyond mere "self-defense", they will accept and process your application now under their old (and still current) GC standard (i.e., highly restrictive issuance).


Anyone who gets denied in Los Angeles Co (either by a city's PD or by the Sheriff's Office), and wants to fight it should read the following quote from my ("Paladin") post in the Monterey Co thread. (There they accept SD as GC, but push the GMC requirement.) The 14th Amendment Equal Protection applies to ALL aspects of the application process, not just GC and GMC.



Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladin (Post 16276894)
So, they say SD = GC, but then push GMC through the roof and, it appears, make your RKBA subject to your neighbors', co-workers' and friends' ratification.... :facepalm: :mad:

If Bernal does NOT follow this same procedure with ALL CCW applicants (think political donors, "friends of the sheriff"/"posse" members, politicians, celebrities), he's open for a Guillory-type 14th A Equal Protection federal lawsuit, but for GMC rather than GC.

Hypothetically, let's say there's a world-famous film star (and director) who lives in (and was once the mayor of) Carmel-By-The-Sea, a city which, acc to CGF's 2013 survey, does not issue CCWs. We'll call him "Mr. E." Let's suppose Mr. E has a Monterey SO CCW. When it is/was time to renew, if the sheriff has the same policy for renewals that means his "background investigator" would have to go to Mr. E's neighbors (who, unlike his friends, may be hard-core antis), and "ask them if they would recommend [Mr. E] be issued a CCW permit." Not only would the same procedure have to be followed, but the same standard as to judging whether to issue or not be followed. IOW, let's say 1 of your neighbors says "Nyet!" when asked if you should get a CCW and because of that you are denied. If 1 of Mr. E's neighbors also said "No!" and yet was issued, that too is a 14th A Equal Protection violation.

Added 03-22-16
Quote:

Torrance PD recently started issuing CCWs:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1170826

West Covina folks are actively engaging the city council members to push the chief to liberalize issuance:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s....php?t=1166812
https://www.facebook.com/CCW4WESTCOVINA/

Glendora folks are also organizing:
https://www.facebook.com/Glendorans-...4722669483246/

Even little La Verne starting to organize to get their chief of police to issue CCWs liberally:
https://www.facebook.com/laVerneCCW

Hans Gruber 10-18-2010 2:27 PM

I look forward to the day when us 'little people' can be afforded the right to defend ourselves with every tool available.

That's all :)

voiceofreason 10-18-2010 7:49 PM

Sadly, L.A. county has the funds, the will, and the political muscle to fight and fight hard.

It will likely be one of the last counties to fall into compliance with the law.

We've been praying for relief from L.A. county's anti-CCW policies for years. Calguns is making it a reality. (single tear falls from eye)

THANK YOU CALGUNS!

AndrewMendez 10-18-2010 7:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voiceofreason (Post 5149799)
Sadly, L.A. county has the funds, the will, and the political muscle to fight and fight hard.

It will likely be one of the last counties to fall into compliance with the law.

We've been praying for relief from L.A. county's anti-CCW policies for years. Calguns is making it a reality. (single tear falls from eye)

THANK YOU CALGUNS!

I beg to differ. 1st, they don't have the money. With cuts to the schools, FD's and PD's, hiring freezes, etc, LA County DOES NOT have the money to pay for it. I will admit that it will more then likely be one of the last counties to fall though. But, there is no legal team in the world, that will save them, from the illegal acts they have been doing behind closed doors.

ryanburbridge 10-18-2010 10:50 PM

Has anyone started the CCW process? My wife and I are saving money. It will be our Christmas present. Any one see a "self defense" good cause statement yet?

wildhawker 10-18-2010 11:17 PM

I would suggest holding off until we are slightly farther along.

spgripside 10-19-2010 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildhawker (Post 5150974)
I would suggest holding off until we are slightly farther along.

2 weeks?

wildhawker 10-19-2010 12:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spgripside (Post 5151089)
2 weeks?

Something like that. :)

voiceofreason 10-19-2010 4:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANDREWMENDEZ (Post 5149870)
I beg to differ. 1st, they don't have the money. With cuts to the schools, FD's and PD's, hiring freezes, etc, LA County DOES NOT have the money to pay for it. I will admit that it will more then likely be one of the last counties to fall though. But, there is no legal team in the world, that will save them, from the illegal acts they have been doing behind closed doors.

I hope you're right and I'm wrong with every fiber of my being.

Though I would not be sad if L.A. county was one of the first to begin compliance.

Theseus 10-19-2010 5:26 AM

Although a little late for me, I went to the City of Alhambra and asked about a permit (back when I would have been legal to apply) and was told that they don't issue. I looked up and found that they do issue (at least they have issued and recently). . .

As I understand, if a city issues, you apply to them unless they have stated that they defer to the sheriffs office. . . so how can they issue AND defer to the sheriffs office?

Paul E 10-19-2010 7:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by voiceofreason (Post 5149799)
Sadly, L.A. county has the funds, the will, and the political muscle to fight and fight hard.

It will likely be one of the last counties to fall into compliance with the law.

We've been praying for relief from L.A. county's anti-CCW policies for years. Calguns is making it a reality. (single tear falls from eye)

THANK YOU CALGUNS!

I'm not doubting your statement, because I think its relatively right on...But on the bright side Trutanich (city attorney) is VERY gun friendly.

dantodd 10-19-2010 10:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theseus (Post 5151349)
Although a little late for me, I went to the City of Alhambra and asked about a permit (back when I would have been legal to apply) and was told that they don't issue. I looked up and found that they do issue (at least they have issued and recently). . .

As I understand, if a city issues, you apply to them unless they have stated that they defer to the sheriffs office. . . so how can they issue AND defer to the sheriffs office?

They must accept your application unless they defer all of their applications to the sheriff. That being said, you can choose to apply at the city OR the sheriff, it is your choice.

AndrewMendez 10-19-2010 11:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Theseus (Post 5151349)
Although a little late for me, I went to the City of Alhambra and asked about a permit (back when I would have been legal to apply) and was told that they don't issue. I looked up and found that they do issue (at least they have issued and recently). . .

As I understand, if a city issues, you apply to them unless they have stated that they defer to the sheriffs office. . . so how can they issue AND defer to the sheriffs office?

They have to sign a "g" MUO indicating that they defer all of the CCW's to the County Sheriff.

moleculo 10-19-2010 2:49 PM

This goes back a few years, but it was after Baca took office, so I guess it applies. I have a family member that obtained a CCW in Los Angeles, although it is no longer valid. At the time, he had a security guard card. He went and applied for the CCW and got approved without any further training required. All he did was show them his guard card, tell them that he got a new job transporting and guarding for a jewelry company. The remarkable thing was that they apparently didn't even bother to do the background check and find out if it was true.

I don't know if that story helps anything, but it does demonstrate how sad the whole CCW process in L.A. is.

moleculo 10-20-2010 3:39 PM

Well, I just read the L.A. Sheriff's policy. It's basically a no-issue policy. Sucks.

socalblue 10-20-2010 4:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ANDREWMENDEZ (Post 5153039)
They have to sign a "g" MUO indicating that they defer all of the CCW's to the County Sheriff.

The exception being CCW's issued to reserve police officers is usually maintained by the city when declaring "g"

mej16489 10-20-2010 8:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by socalblue (Post 5160861)
The exception being CCW's issued to reserve police officers is usually maintained by the city when declaring "g"

This sounds like another procedural problem. I don't think there's such a thing as declaring partial-g

12050
(g) Nothing in this article shall preclude the chief or other head
of a municipal police department of any city from entering an
agreement with the sheriff of the county in which the city is located
for the sheriff to process all applications for licenses, renewals
of licenses, and amendments to licenses, pursuant to this article.

dantodd 10-20-2010 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by moleculo (Post 5160452)
Well, I just read the L.A. Sheriff's policy. It's basically a no-issue policy. Sucks.

The whole point of this drill is to work on opening up the policy to as many Gunnies as possible. Many sheriffs would like you to believe they are "no-issue" when the truth may well be different.

sighere 10-24-2010 7:38 AM

Applications sent Sept 9
 
I'm awaiting my denial letter. App received by L.A. County on 9/9/10.

CCWFacts 10-24-2010 4:59 PM

Sheriff's retaliation
 
Donate to Sheriff Baca and he'll help bust your enemies!

Quote:

The Times says the investigation was outside Baca's jurisdiction and Beverly Hills police had already concluded there was no crime involved.

The story says the sheriff sent a handwritten note to his chief of detectives requesting the probe and detectives gave it a special "rush" status normally reserved for serious crimes.
This is the kind of power that our country is not supposed to tolerate. This is the kind of abuse the colonists rebelled against.

AndrewMendez 10-25-2010 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCWFacts (Post 5182320)
Donate to Sheriff Baca and he'll help bust your enemies!



This is the kind of power that our country is not supposed to tolerate. This is the kind of abuse the colonists rebelled against.

Gosh damn that pissed me off. His time would be better off served if he tried one of those, "I am going back on patrol, because the budget" crap. What are the limits for gifting for members in office or of authority?

HowardW56 10-25-2010 6:18 AM

The Los Angeles Times has the story too....

http://www.latimes.com/news/local/la...,1170316.story

KarLorian 10-27-2010 6:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CCWFacts (Post 5182320)
Donate to Sheriff Baca and he'll help bust your enemies!



This is the kind of power that our country is not supposed to tolerate. This is the kind of abuse the colonists rebelled against.

And stuff like this is why we need to get the records out into the sunshine about the Sheriff's implementation of CCW licenses.

He already gives preferential treatment like above, maybe (we know he does) he does the same with CCWs.

Bronco 10-30-2010 6:56 AM

It wasn't so very long ago that if you told me you were starting a thread with the ultimate purpose of bringing the issuance of L.A. County CCW permits into compliance with the law, I would have chuckled and suggested that you might have better luck first devising the plan by which Justin Bieber would win the Heisman Trophy.

Not so anymore. I will be keeping an eye on this thread to determine when and how my actions and participation, beyond merely donating to the cause, might be useful in furthering the cause. Kudos to those who have helped to bring us to this point.

Gray Peterson 10-30-2010 7:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bronco (Post 5213979)
It wasn't so very long ago that if you told me you were starting a thread with the ultimate purpose of bringing the issuance of L.A. County CCW permits into compliance with the law, I would have chuckled and suggested that you might have better luck first devising the plan by which Justin Bieber would win the Heisman Trophy.

Not so anymore. I will be keeping an eye on this thread to determine when and how my actions and participation, beyond merely donating to the cause, might be useful in furthering the cause. Kudos to those who have helped to bring us to this point.

Please put your name into the volunteer list. When we do the callout and get people applying, we'll need you to help us.

Bronco 10-30-2010 1:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gray Peterson (Post 5214104)
Please put your name into the volunteer list. When we do the callout and get people applying, we'll need you to help us.

Will do, Gray. Might you have a link for me?

obeygiant 10-30-2010 2:34 PM

For reference:

Quote:

Originally Posted by jello2594 (Post 5214187)
Ah, finally an update. After over a year, I've gotten this letter from LAPD.
http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4063/...c17d18f2_b.jpg


BigFatGuy 10-30-2010 6:19 PM

Where do I sign up to volunteer to file and sue when the time comes?

obeygiant 10-30-2010 7:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigFatGuy (Post 5216593)
Where do I sign up to volunteer to file and sue when the time comes?

You can email your contact information to: Volunteer@calgunsfoundation.org and in the interim there is also an opportunity to Sponsor your county and support Carry License (CCW) reform.

Knight_Who_Says_Ni 11-02-2010 9:21 PM

That CCW denial brings tears to my eyes. At what point do they realize that it is a RIGHT to bear arms! Not a privilege! "Law Enforcement resources..." Here there is 2 hour average response time for home invasion robberies, when seconds matter, the police are hours away.:rant:

n2k 11-16-2010 8:05 AM

Contributed to the cause....

Cali4nia_AR 11-17-2010 2:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by obeygiant (Post 5215653)
For reference:

How did you go about to submit your app.? Was there a process you followed? Thx

socal-ar15 11-18-2010 10:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Knight_Who_Says_Ni (Post 5234176)
That CCW denial brings tears to my eyes. At what point do they realize that it is a RIGHT to bear arms! Not a privilege! "Law Enforcement resources..." Here there is 2 hour average response time for home invasion robberies, when seconds matter, the police are hours away.:rant:

Two hours lol I was at a friends birthday party in North Hills when 3 men started braking into the cars. We called the police and it took them 3.5 hours to respond. My brother and I chased them off and then got an ear full from the responding officer on how we could get in trouble for our actions if we were to hurt the robbers. I want to know WTF is going on in this county.... do the cops take that long to respond for fear of being sued for doing their job. I for one don't need the police to protect me, I am a grown man who will defend himself and family from Criminals, but then it seems I will need an Attorney to defend me from the people sworn to protect me and every law abiding citizen. :mad:

obeygiant 11-20-2010 1:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cali4nia_AR (Post 5313532)
How did you go about to submit your app.? Was there a process you followed? Thx

I should have been more clear in my post. I was quoting jello2594 who had posted that letter and I wanted a copy of it here in this thread. I'm a resident of Orange County so I wouldn't be able to apply for LA. When the time comes to start the application process you will receive an email from Gray or Brandon with specific instructions on exactly how to proceed.

djleisure 11-24-2010 3:18 PM

If this is a thread where we say we are interested in a CCW permit in LA county, then I'm in! Please let me know when the time is right and I'll apply.

I don't know if it helps (probably not) but I had a CCW permit in the state of Washington in the early/mid 90's. I actually used to CC around the city of Seattle completely legally (not sure if they issue them in the city any more.)

I'll keep my eye on this thread for further developments...

jonbirdt 11-26-2010 12:20 PM

Why wait, we will have Peruta and Nordyke decisions before the end of the year?

http://www.jonbirdt.com/images/Birdt...FAC-_final.pdf

I think we have all patiently waited long enough for a right we all agree is ours. The more pressure put on LA County, the sooner we are going to realize any change. They arent going to do anything until a Central District Judge tells them they have to.

The application is availible, say self defense and protection of your family as good cause, get a denial and sue them.

CavTrooper 11-26-2010 12:37 PM

Im not a lawyer, but doesnt the state law already lay out a timeline and fee schedule for CCW issuance?

If this is the case, doesnt asking the county court for these things make the complaint look a bit amateurish?

jonbirdt 11-26-2010 12:42 PM

You sue in federal court for violation of civil rights, not state court.

HowardW56 11-26-2010 1:07 PM

While I do not agree with your timing, as you have elected to move forward now, I wish you the best of luck.

Who did you draw for a Judge?

jonbirdt 11-26-2010 1:17 PM

Gary Klausner- couldn't have asked for better.


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