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-   -   ♦♦ How NOT to get Arrested for your OLL!!!! ♦♦ (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=186405)

oaklander 05-21-2009 10:06 AM

♦♦ How NOT to get Arrested for your OLL!!!! ♦♦
 
Mods, please move to appropriate forum. I posted here because many NEW users do not visit the 2A forum.

--------

As a Board Member of the CGF, I get the dubious pleasure of hearing about arrests and gun confiscations. Many of these do not make it onto the forum. There are not too many, but there are still enough that it is troubling to me.

While there have been no successful OLL prosecutions, I think that people should still exercise common sense with respect to their OLLs.

The arrests and confiscations are falling into a pattern.

1) A NEW gun owner does something to bring himself to the attention of LE.

2) LE either arrests the new gun owner, or takes his OLL and starts an investigation.

Here is some advice for new shooters:

1) DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE.

This isn't meant to be anti-LEO, but is simply common sense. Most police in the state do not even know what an OLL is. Don't ask them about OLLs, don't talk to them about OLLs. What is simply an OLL to you is an AW to them.

More experienced Calgunners, who have existing relationships with LE, should of course work to educate LE.

2) DO NOT DO THINGS TO BRING ATTENTION TO YOURSELF.

Again, this is common sense, and has been posted about ad nauseum. But I will repeat it. Do not drive around with a broken windshield, do not speed. Keep your car or truck clean. BWO has an excellent thread on this topic.

3) MAKE SURE YOUR OLL IS LEGAL.

Read the flowchart. Understand it. Do not configure your rifle in a way that is illegal.

Again, these are all common sense, but I think that some new gun owners are so excited about getting their first OLL that they kind of lose sight of common sense.

djleisure 05-21-2009 10:14 AM

Excellent advice and to your point of DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE, I suggest if you (people reading this thread) haven't watched this video on YouTube (Don't Talk to Police), take 45 minutes out of your life and watch it. NOW!

oaklander 05-21-2009 10:19 AM

Yes, life is all about relationships and who you invite into your life. There's no reason to invite someone who has the power to arrest you!

Quote:

Originally Posted by djleisure (Post 2513339)
Excellent advice and to your point of DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE, I suggest if you (people reading this thread) haven't watched this video on YouTube (Don't Talk to Police), take 45 minutes out of your life and watch it. NOW!


aermotor 05-21-2009 11:00 AM

Great points as simple as they may seem.

I understand the excitement and wanting to rush right into it all, but take your time, and like I've said before, read, read read all that you can, this forum has so much knowledge on it, it's amazing. Buy your parts and keep reading while waiting for them to come in. In the DROS period, keep reading, understand the laws and WHY they are that way. Keep yourself protected. Print out the flow chart and other important defense documents and keep with your weapons at all times.

If there's one thing I learned when dealing with OLL is that it comes with a lot of responsibility, more than you would think at first.

ripcurlksm 05-21-2009 11:42 AM

Also, print out and keep with you the Sacremento Police Memo on OLL's and the bullet button. See my signature #3 link, click the PDF link in the first post and print the pages numbered 96-98.

Gator Monroe 05-21-2009 12:07 PM

One way to attract attention is to Drop mags rapidly and reinsert fresh ones rapidly with BB or usuial way if you have MM grip is it not ? (I would think slowing down process would be advisable even though you can legally do it quickly and you may think it's your right too )

supersonic 05-21-2009 12:10 PM

VERY timely topic, Oak. In the last 9 months or so, the sheer numbers of new & seemingly young (18-25) CG members has been staggering. And so has the near daily posts of "I know 'X' is legal in Ca., but can't I get away with 'X' & 'Y' because of how unfair it is?" I'm personally worried that all the hard work that went into making OLL's available to us will have been in vain if people don't wise the f**k up & put themselves in check real quick.;)

supersonic 05-21-2009 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Gator Monroe (Post 2513889)
One way to attract attention is to Drop mags rapidly and reinsert fresh ones rapidly with BB or usuial way if you have MM grip is it not ? (I would think slowing down process would be advisable even though you can legally do it quickly and you may think it's your right too )

I really can't see how 'slowing down' one's reloading techniques at the range has any merit whatsoever, as long as you are doing it legally with a legally-configured rifle. 'Speed,' or lack thereof, is a non-issue.

scotthmt 05-21-2009 12:15 PM

A good amount is knowing your sh*t. I got stopped by a LEO who didn't much know about OLL so I edjucated him, showed that the mag wasn't detachable w/o a tool and the other rifle had no pistol grip. But your best bet is too KEEP A COPY OF THE FLOWCHART WITH YOU. Being edjucated will save you lots of headaches.

Gator Monroe 05-21-2009 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by supersonic (Post 2513923)
I really can't see how 'slowing down' one's reloading techniques at the range has any merit whatsoever, as long as you are doing it legally with a legally-configured rifle. 'Speed,' or lack thereof, is a non-issue.

I'm sure the OP is refering to OLL users who were doing what they were legally able to do in some of the aforementioned cases ...

Nessal 05-21-2009 12:31 PM

+1 on all mentioned topics. I think some people FAIL to realize how uneducated most LEO's are about OLLs. It's probably the gun show crowd that bought an AR-15 from a gun show WITHOUT doing anymore research about OLLs. Big mistake. And one more thing. If a cop pulled you over and SOME HOW found out that you had an OLL, given that he is ignorant, no amount of talking will do you any good. Just shut up and plead the fifth.

ENTHUSIAST 05-21-2009 12:42 PM

GREAT thread Oaklander THANKS for posting...
 
From my personal experience I would also like to add:

Always carry a copy of the flow chart with you everytime your OLLs leave your house.

And carry a COPY of your DROS and/or a COPY of your 4473 page 3 is best and also page 1.

Also a COPY of any reciepts that shows your OLL was purchased in CA.

Keep all this paperwork in a folder inside your LOCKED gun case.

Also in a worst case senario keep ALL original copies of the above paperwork at a family member or friends house NOT where your OLLs are stored.


P.S. Never open your locked gun case EVEN if LEOs threaten to cut the locks off... ask me how I know... :rolleyes:

NEVER TALK TO THE COPS OR BORDER PATROL OR ANY OTHER LEO AGENCY FOR ANY REASON OTHER THAN TO SAY I WONT MAKE ANY STATEMENTS UNTIL AFTER I HAVE SPOKEN WITH MY ATTORNEY!!!

ENTHUSIAST 05-21-2009 12:53 PM

Good advice here:

Quote:

Originally Posted by aermotor (Post 2513568)
I understand the excitement and wanting to rush right into it all, but take your time, and like I've said before, read, read read all that you can, this forum has so much knowledge on it, it's amazing. Buy your parts and keep reading while waiting for them to come in. In the DROS period, keep reading, understand the laws and WHY they are that way. Keep yourself protected. Print out the flow chart and other important defense documents and keep with your weapons at all times.

If there's one thing I learned when dealing with OLL is that it comes with a lot of responsibility, more than you would think at first.


ENTHUSIAST 05-21-2009 12:56 PM

More sage advice:

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nessal (Post 2514012)
+1 on all mentioned topics. I think some people FAIL to realize how uneducated most LEO's are about OLLs. It's probably the gun show crowd that bought an AR-15 from a gun show WITHOUT doing anymore research about OLLs. Big mistake. And one more thing. If a cop pulled you over and SOME HOW found out that you had an OLL, given that he is ignorant, no amount of talking will do you any good. Just shut up and plead the fifth.


ENTHUSIAST 05-21-2009 1:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ripcurlksm (Post 2514128)
care to elaborate please?

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=163082

I was detained by BP for 3+ hours and NO I would NOT care to elaborate... other than you have no rights when the cameras and voice recorders are off and LEOs have you cuffed and they want to search your property even if they have NO Probable Cause they dont give a **** about your rights and they will trample them... just make sure that it isnt any easier for them. It also makes them look like ******** when they destroy your property w/ no PC only to have to let you go with an apology.

ripcurlksm 05-21-2009 1:10 PM

Quote:

I was detained by BP for 3+ hours and NO I would NOT care to elaborate
i see now. I asked more specifically on why to lock because I do not lock long arms, but do carry the CA OLL book (link #3 in my sig) with the laws, memos, and flowchart. I do not carry any of the paperwork, because I treat all my firearms the same (EDIT: the same as, if i dont carry my receipt for my shotgun or bolt action rifle, why should I on principle do the same for OLL... just for example). Reading your post, I wanted to know more about the locking, etc. friend.

ENTHUSIAST 05-21-2009 1:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ripcurlksm (Post 2514228)
i see now. I asked more specifically on why to lock because I do not lock long arms, but do carry the CA OLL book (link #3 in my sig) with the laws, memos, and flowchart. I do not carry any of the paperwork, because I treat all my firearms the same. Reading your post, I wanted to know more about the locking, etc. friend.

Quote:

EDIT: the same as, if i dont carry my receipt for my shotgun or bolt action rifle, why should I on principle do the same for OLL... just for example).
Should you have to do it? Heck NO, but after having everything but my anal cavity searched and being threatened w/ losing my gun rights, confiscation, court, felony conviction, prison etc. I wish I had Oak, Gene, Bill and Trutanich Michel in my Pelican Case too... just saying it is much different when your freedom depends on a guy who knows squat about guns in general and then looks at your OLL like it is make out if plutonium!!!

I keep ALL my long guns AND pistols LOCKED in my Pelican 1750 case (that is in my LOCKED car trunk).

I know that by law you are not required to lock up long guns while transporting.... however if you are stopped ANYTHING in "PLAIN VIEW" YES EVEN A BOX OF BULLETS can be twisted into PC to search your vehicle for loaded weapons.

Also even a MAG from an AR or AK OLL can make a LEO go crazy and tear your car apart looking for an AW.

Again this is ALL from a real life LEO detainment so I am VERY sure of how far they will go if they want to...

Just NEVER think that they are there to uphold the Constitution... IMHO they are merely revenue agents that will pervert and destroy the BOR given even the slightest chance and yes they think they have the seal of approval to do just that.

I am not speaking for all LEOs as I have let a CHP (also a Calgunner) shoot my OLL without ever even knowing he was a LEO and he was one of the coolest guys I ever met at the range (he let me shoot his Night Hawk) but consider most will HATE the fact that you can even own such a weapon and will do everything they can to try and take it from you.

We have won the OLL war but the battle still goes on.

Again this is all from first hand experience... PLEASE be safe out there brothers.

B Strong 05-21-2009 3:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENTHUSIAST (Post 2514284)
Should you have to do it? Heck NO, but after having everything but my anal cavity searched and being threatened w/ losing my gun rights, confiscation, court, felony conviction, prison etc. I wish I had Oak, Gene, Bill and Trutanich Michel in my Pelican Case too... just saying it is much different when your freedom depends on a guy who knows squat about guns in general and then looks at your OLL like it is make out if plutonium!!!

I keep ALL my long guns AND pistols LOCKED in my Pelican 1750 case (that is in my LOCKED car trunk).

I know that by law you are not required to lock up long guns while transporting.... however if you are stopped ANYTHING in "PLAIN VIEW" YES EVEN A BOX OF BULLETS can be twisted into PC to search your vehicle for loaded weapons.

Also even a MAG from an AR or AK OLL can make a LEO go crazy and tear your car apart looking for an AW.

Again this is ALL from a real life LEO detainment so I am VERY sure of how far they will go if they want to...

Just NEVER think that they are there to uphold the Constitution... IMHO they are merely revenue agents that will pervert and destroy the BOR given even the slightest chance and yes they think they have the seal of approval to do just that.

I am not speaking for all LEOs as I have let a CHP (also a Calgunner) shoot my OLL without ever even knowing he was a LEO and he was one of the coolest guys I ever met at the range (he let me shoot his Night Hawk) but consider most will HATE the fact that you can even own such a weapon and will do everything they can to take it from you.

We have won the OLL war but the battle still goes on.

Again this is all from first hand experience... PLEASE be safe out there brothers.

Many years back during a traffic stop an officer in Foster City Ca. observed a membership card to "Aimark" (Now Jackson Arms) and in the wallet of the driver when the driver produced his DL. The officer attempted to use that as the reason for first a consent search (denied by the driver) then for PC to search the vehicle - a supervisor was called to the scene and eventually the driver was released w/o a search, but you're correct.

A single round of ammo or a used target in plain view can get LE search juices flowing in the right (wrong) situation.

oaklander 05-21-2009 8:22 PM

Yes, a good tactic to use is to think like the "grey man."

http://westernrifleshooters.blogspot...-grey-man.html

:)

Quote:

Originally Posted by B Strong (Post 2514923)
Many years back during a traffic stop an officer in Foster City Ca. observed a membership card to "Aimark" (Now Jackson Arms) and in the wallet of the driver when the driver produced his DL. The officer attempted to use that as the reason for first a consent search (denied by the driver) then for PC to search the vehicle - a supervisor was called to the scene and eventually the driver was released w/o a search, but you're correct.

A single round of ammo or a used target in plain view can get LE search juices flowing in the right (wrong) situation.


oaklander 05-21-2009 8:35 PM

Here's a graphic for those who think visually:

http://i44.tinypic.com/33w36o5.jpg

oaklander 05-21-2009 11:10 PM

Since this is now a "sticky" -- let's keep it on topic so that mods don't have to clean it up.

Beatone 05-21-2009 11:46 PM

Sound advise Oak.

scr83jp 05-22-2009 6:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oaklander (Post 2513295)
Mods, please move to appropriate forum. I posted here because many NEW users do not visit the 2A forum.

--------

As a Board Member of the CGF, I get the dubious pleasure of hearing about arrests and gun confiscations. Many of these do not make it onto the forum. There are not too many, but there are still enough that it is troubling to me.

While there have been no successful OLL prosecutions, I think that people should still exercise common sense with respect to their OLLs.

The arrests and confiscations are falling into a pattern.

1) A NEW gun owner does something to bring himself to the attention of LE.

2) LE either arrests the new gun owner, or takes his OLL and starts an investigation.

Here is some advice for new shooters:

1) DO NOT TALK TO THE POLICE.

This isn't meant to be anti-LEO, but is simply common sense. Most police in the state do not even know what an OLL is. Don't ask them about OLLs, don't talk to them about OLLs. What is simply an OLL to you is an AW to them.

More experienced Calgunners, who have existing relationships with LE, should of course work to educate LE.

2) DO NOT DO THINGS TO BRING ATTENTION TO YOURSELF.

Again, this is common sense, and has been posted about ad nauseum. But I will repeat it. Do not drive around with a broken windshield, do not speed. Keep your car or truck clean. BWO has an excellent thread on this topic.

3) MAKE SURE YOUR OLL IS LEGAL.

Read the flowchart. Understand it. Do not configure your rifle in a way that is illegal.

Again, these are all common sense, but I think that some new gun owners are so excited about getting their first OLL that they kind of lose sight of common sense.

One thing I remember from 37 years as a court officer reading miranda warnings 5 days a week is that most cases would never have been solved if the perps had researched miranda and followed "you have the right to remain silent" to the letter.

Wild Squid 05-26-2009 8:12 PM

First of all, this is a great thread. All 3 points OP made are excellent advice, but also should be viewed as common sense. But I think the one that most people fall prey to would be talking to the police. This does not mean to be uncooperative or to be a ***** towards the police. Its just that the officer who pulled you over or stops you has a job of firing off a series of incriminating questions. And I can't stress how important it is to train yourself on how to answer it without getting you car searched and seized. Cops do not care how much financial, emotional, material stress they cause a person when they falsely detain you for something that was perfectly legal in the first case. They'll just claim they're doing their job. This is where and why so many people hate cops and I don't understand why cops don't understand this phenomenon. If an officer searches someone's vehicle and finds a legally configured AR they suffer no consequences if they accuse the person of having a "Automatic Machine Gun Assault Weapon" that has a sole purpose of penetrating an officer's bullet proof vest. Said person then gets arrested and goes through hell trying to fight it out in court and spends upwards of $100K defending his freedom when he should never have had to. And the officer just says he's "doing his job". But let me be the first to say, that I am appreciative of knowing that if I had to call the police for an emergency, they will show up reasonably fast. Because THAT is their job. But I have conflicting feelings when I get bullied around by rogue cops. And even worse is when rogue cops are unfairly "protected" from prosecution in a court of law when sometimes so clearly break the law. It makes me sick.
So, if anyone feels any guilt of not talking to the cops when they are being interrogated during a traffic stop, don't be. Because they sure as hell wouldn't feel bad at all for ruining your life over a misunderstanding. You know why? Because that is their job.

SAN compnerd 05-28-2009 1:26 PM

Link broken
 
The link to the PDF for the OLL handbook is broken. Can someone fix this? I would really like to have a soft copy for my reference. Thanks.

domokun 05-28-2009 6:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NMCI compnerd (Post 2546748)
The link to the PDF for the OLL handbook is broken. Can someone fix this? I would really like to have a soft copy for my reference. Thanks.

Here's the related thread for that book:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...83&postcount=1

scr83jp 06-11-2009 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by compsoftstation (Post 2525863)
Wondering why my friends ask me all sort of weird question for their friend..

I had that happen so many times so I told the person "the friend is you" & you're trying to get a twist on your probation or parole officer. I finally started telling everyone when they asked who I was employed by & what I did for a living that I was a "garbage collector" but I didn't tell them what kind of garbage I collected !

Seesm 06-15-2009 10:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENTHUSIAST (Post 2514069)
P.S. Never open your locked gun case EVEN if LEOs threaten to cut the locks off... ask me how I know... :rolleyes:

NEVER TALK TO THE COPS OR BORDER PATROL OR ANY OTHER LEO AGENCY FOR ANY REASON OTHER THAN TO SAY I WONT MAKE ANY STATEMENTS UNTIL AFTER I HAVE SPOKEN WITH MY ATTORNEY!!!



Can't you get in trouble for NOT showing them what is locked behind door # "I mean in box #1" ? Scary.. Hope the Leos learn the laws even if they do not like them. :) Please Pm how you can NOT open the locked box and stay out of jail? (if your not comfy in doing this in open forum) Thanks!!

Once A Marine 06-15-2009 11:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seesm (Post 2638058)
[/B]

Can't you get in trouble for NOT showing them what is locked behind door # "I mean in box #1" ? Scary.. Hope the Leos learn the laws even if they do not like them. :) Please Pm how you can NOT open the locked box and stay out of jail? (if your not comfy in doing this in open forum) Thanks!!

I would assume Fourth Ammendment rights.

gotshotgun? 06-20-2009 12:24 PM

But the guy is right in regards to talking with police, it will never help you, they don't care what you have to say they only are doing what they are trained to do... find illegalities. A judge teaching one of my classes told us that it was AMAZING how many people will CONSENT to a search of their car when they have a load of cocaine or some other contraband in their car.... the number is staggering. People think if they are nice and friendly with the cop he will just say "well thanks so much for cooperating, have a nice day!" eeeehhhhh wrong, he'll still search you and think of you as a possible suspect until its over.


Quote:

Originally Posted by 7222 Hawker (Post 2644064)
You sir, are a paranoid conspiracy theorist.


OliveDrab 06-20-2009 1:11 PM

Can I ask a question regaurding the "don't talk to police"

let's say I'm driving home from the range and I have my OLL and ammo and targets in the back seat of my truck. OLL is in a case and ammo in a can. I get pulled over for not signaling.

The cop askes the following questions (I've been asked all of these before)

1. Where are you coming From

2. Do you have any guns knifes ect. In the car

3. Can I search your vehicle


What do I respond

gotshotgun? 06-20-2009 1:25 PM

Hello, why have you pulled me over. I would prefer not to answer any of your questions.

At this point he'll get pissed and become suspicious and he may look for more violations. If he sees the gun case in the back he may search it based on a "reasonable suspicion" that you may be armed and dangerous. This search will be limited to a pat down from the outside of your clothing (a terry stop patdown) and he can look for weapons only. He could also search the passenger area (but not the trunk), he can search the glovebox. He need not have probable cause of a crime only a reasonable suspicion.

As far as can I search your vehicle, never say yes, there's no point, even if you are totally innocent why risk it. Remember the officer is looking hard for that bust, he wants it bad... especially if he's asking for a search.

COBRA MASTER 06-20-2009 2:45 PM

lol
 
I agree with you.
All le has to do is say you are acting in a suspicious manner and that was grounds to search your vehicle
whether you say yes or no. They can be creative and violate all your civil rights and get away with it. There job is to lock you up, the district attorney is the one who decides if they let you loose or make a case out of it.

Quote:

Originally Posted by gotshotgun? (Post 2661432)
But the guy is right in regards to talking with police, it will never help you, they don't care what you have to say they only are doing what they are trained to do... find illegalities. A judge teaching one of my classes told us that it was AMAZING how many people will CONSENT to a search of their car when they have a load of cocaine or some other contraband in their car.... the number is staggering. People think if they are nice and friendly with the cop he will just say "well thanks so much for cooperating, have a nice day!" eeeehhhhh wrong, he'll still search you and think of you as a possible suspect until its over.


ENTHUSIAST 06-22-2009 4:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Seesm (Post 2638058)
Can't you get in trouble for NOT showing them what is locked behind door # "I mean in box #1" ? Scary.. Hope the Leos learn the laws even if they do not like them. :) Please Pm how you can NOT open the locked box and stay out of jail? (if your not comfy in doing this in open forum) Thanks!!

Dude you dont have to do a freaking thing other than identify yourself and remain silent or... anything you say can and will be... well... you know the rest.

Think about it if they have PC they wouldnt be asking (especially like 20x) over and over... Also if they did have PC they wouldnt need your permission... dont "help them just do their job" when their job is to put people in jail specifically... YOU.


Basically (without lying to the officer) dont incriminate yourself and dont waive...
Quote:

Originally Posted by Once A Marine (Post 2638256)
I would assume Fourth Ammendment rights.


ENTHUSIAST 06-22-2009 4:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsanchez91 (Post 2661551)
Can I ask a question regaurding the "don't talk to police"

let's say I'm driving home from the range and I have my OLL and ammo and targets in the back seat of my truck. OLL is in a case and ammo in a can. I get pulled over for not signaling.

The cop askes the following questions (I've been asked all of these before)

1. Where are you coming From
Am I being detained sir? If not I would like to be on my way. (Repeat as necessary.)
2. Do you have any guns knifes ect. In the car
Sir, there is nothing illegal in the car.
3. Can I search your vehicle
I do not consent to any searches and I would like to be on my way.
What do I respond

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsanchez91 (Post 2661742)
So when he asks anything I just plead the 5th?

NO save that for if you make it to court.

If the officer asks you for any information outside of the traffic stop or keeps pressing you just politely inform him you will not discuss anything outside the scope of the traffic violation without your attorney present.

Also check out the video series Pullnshoot made on dealing with LEO interactions *although it is about open carry it covers how to deal with LEOs that like to abuse the limits of their power:

pullnshoot25 06-23-2009 4:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ENTHUSIAST (Post 2668061)
NO save that for if you make it to court.

If the officer asks you for any information outside of the traffic stop or keeps pressing you just politely inform him you will not discuss anything outside the scope of the traffic violation without your attorney present.

Also check out the video series Pullnshoot made on dealing with LEO interactions *although it is about open carry it covers how to deal with LEOs that like to abuse the limits of their power:

Hang tight guys, I will be making more videos soon on a variety of topics, including traffic stops.

7222 Hawker 07-18-2009 2:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by slick_711 (Post 2516942)
What brought this post about? I'd bet dollars to dimes my background is more extensive than yours and I'm only 24. I'd like to give you the behavior you apparently expect from my age group and tell you to GFY, but I'm not even going to bother. Sincerely: have a nice day. :confused:

Hmmm... lets look at this. Age 24 - yes its possible to have an "extensive" firearms background. However, I would say this would have to include:

1. Military Training
2. Law Enforcement Training
3. Both
4. A dad who gave a crap and took you to the range twice a month since you were 6.


In any of these cases, you wouldn't fit into the category of people GEO is talking about. So.... cool down kid.

7222 Hawker 07-18-2009 2:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by AM9000 (Post 2672409)
I didn't get that from his post. Seems to me, you have made an over statement.

Perhaps I did. My apologies.

7222 Hawker 07-18-2009 2:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rsanchez91 (Post 2661742)
So when he asks anything I just plead the 5th?

Yes. Hand him your drivers license, registration, insurance and be polite. Don't say anything else and sign the ticket. Be on your merry way. ;)

Glockgunner 08-06-2009 8:11 PM

DOJ BOF and DA will not commit to Bullet Button
 
So I had an interesting conversation with the CA DOJ Bureau of Firearms and with a pretty knowledgeable representative from the Monterey County District Attorney's office regarding possession of an AW with a Bullet Button. Neither resource were willing to give a definitive answer regarding the Bullet Button. The DOJ BOF guy told me that the individual county DA makes the decision on accepting it as a “fixed” magazine. Although he did mention “tool use”. He warned me about a case where a guy traveled from a permitted county to a non-permitted county and was arrested. He got off, but not until spending a bunch of money on a defense attorney. Know before you go I guess is the lesson here. Anyway, the DA I talked to said they are not currently pursuing Bullet Button issues, but that there are officers in the county who are arresting for AR possession EVEN WITH THE BULLET BUTTON and 10 round mag, etc. They just had one in July 2009 in Seaside. He didn’t give me any further details on the case. I also found out that he is a firearms enthusiast and understood. Bottom line is that he said regulations could change “tomorrow” and that they would then prosecute. I find it really frustrating that the DA will not commit. He was equally frustrated with the DOJ BOF. Just a little story I wanted to share since I live in Monterey County and want to build an AR while avoiding and legal entanglement. This AR business is really quite challenging. Makes me want one even more!


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