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-   2nd Amend. Litigation Updates & Legal Discussion (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/forumdisplay.php?f=330)
-   -   9/19/2013 CGF Files New Federal Civil Rights Lawsuit to Stop DOJ's DROS Delay Policy (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=656150)

wildhawker 02-20-2013 8:47 PM

People, keep your chins up. There's lots to look forward to...

-Brandon

Dustyzz 02-20-2013 9:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildhawker (Post 10597613)
People, keep your chins up. There's lots to look forward to...

-Brandon

I've been on delay since December 24th and still have not been able to get ANY info out of CA DOJ... I could use a little good info, got any details about what we have to look forward to?

JDay 02-20-2013 9:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildhawker (Post 10597613)
People, keep your chins up. There's lots to look forward to...

-Brandon

I'll take this as a sign the right people are handling this and continue to wait patiently. I'd like to thank you and everyone else who is working on this.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

JoeyJ 02-21-2013 7:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildhawker (Post 10597613)
People, keep your chins up. There's lots to look forward to...

-Brandon

Thank you Brandon for all that you and ALL of Calguns' do for us, I'm on my way to make a donation to the Calguns Foundation!
51 days and counting.
Joey

RED (Y) 02-21-2013 8:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wildhawker (Post 10596379)
Please please please email me your information to bcombs@calgunsfoundation.org.

-Brandon

I filed a report on calgunsfoundation.org,do you need this info re-send to your e-mail?

JDay 02-21-2013 8:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED (Y) (Post 10600849)
I filed a report on calgunsfoundation.org,do you need this info re-send to your e-mail?

I don't think he does.

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

PlayHard 02-21-2013 5:06 PM

Update: After finally getting my guns from the 100 day delay, I put several others in DROS. Contacted my FFL and picked up another gun and some lowers on exactly 10 days.

If you were put on delay, it's probably going to stay that way for quite a while. Each DROS is it's own separate file. When put on delay, that file is being tossed into a "holding bin" until they are able to handle them, while handling an unprecedented number of DROS's that are clearly approvals and denials.

If you know why you are on delay and believe this information has been provided and possibly updated with the DOJ (different department than the DROS department), then a new or different DROS will open a new file and possibly an approval (or denial). Once approved with the new DROS and if you can get ahold of somebody, the second DROS may get the original one approved.

If you don't know why your are on delay, DO A LIVESCAN, then refute the information on your RAP sheet with the Records and Review Dept. I started this process and finally got approved. $25 bucks and some fingerprints may get you some answers.

Again, just my take and good luck to all those on delay.

-PH

wildhawker 02-21-2013 5:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RED (Y) (Post 10600849)
I filed a report on calgunsfoundation.org,do you need this info re-send to your e-mail?

No, if you reported it at CGF/doj then we'll be in touch.

-Brandon

JDay 02-21-2013 8:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlayHard (Post 10604249)
If you don't know why your are on delay, DO A LIVESCAN, then refute the information on your RAP sheet with the Records and Review Dept. I started this process and finally got approved. $25 bucks and some fingerprints may get you some answers.

What Livescan service is this? All I see listed at the places that do this is Livescan for employment by certain agencies, and it is a lot more than $25.

JDay 02-21-2013 8:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcrpe (Post 10606861)
Huh?

Maybe you should re-word that.

It's 100% legal to buy a gun and give it to your son.

tcrpe 02-21-2013 9:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDay (Post 10606982)
It's 100% legal to buy a gun and give it to your son.

Are you obsessing? Were you denied? Delayed? Why?

JDay 02-22-2013 7:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcrpe (Post 10607028)
Are you obsessing?

Are you trying to imply something? If so you're as bad as the antis.

Quote:

Were you denied? Delayed? Why?
Were you? If not what are you doing in this thread?

Sent from my SGH-T999 using Tapatalk 2

PlayHard 02-22-2013 7:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDay (Post 10606446)
What Livescan service is this? All I see listed at the places that do this is Livescan for employment by certain agencies, and it is a lot more than $25.

Simple to fill out. I put "Record Review - Delayed DROS" as the "Reason for Application"

This link describes the process.

This link is where you can get the form with some description on how to fill it out. At the bottom of the page, it tells you what to do after you have received your RAP sheet ("Claim of Alleged Inaccuracy or Incompleteness" (form BCIA 8706)) . . . I got form BCIA 8706 from one of the CalGuns Foundation recommended attorneys.

At the very least, you'll know what's on your record . . . Best case, you'll get your information updated and know that there is nothing making you a "prohibited person". Try another DROS as you now know, for sure, there is NOTHING that should DELAY or DENY your application.

JDay 02-22-2013 7:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlayHard (Post 10609724)
Simple to fill out. I put "Record Review - Delayed DROS" as the "Reason for Application"

This link describes the process.

This link is where you can get the form with some description on how to fill it out. At the bottom of the page, it tells you what to do after you have received your RAP sheet ("Claim of Alleged Inaccuracy or Incompleteness" (form BCIA 8706)) . . . I got form BCIA 8706 from one of the CalGuns Foundation recommended attorneys.

At the very least, you'll know what's on your record . . . Best case, you'll get your information updated and know that there is nothing making you a "prohibited person". Try another DROS as you now know, for sure, there is NOTHING that should DELAY or DENY your application.

Thank you. I'm going to do this later today so I can find out what the hold up is. Somethings not adding up because my record is clean. I've had to pass several FBI background checks for security clearance purposes even.

tcrpe 02-22-2013 7:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDay (Post 10606982)
It's 100% legal to buy a gun and give it to your son.


OK, then, it is not as simple as you claim.

Check the law. It needs to be followed.

For example:

12078(c)

(1) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a firearm that is not a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family.

(2) Subdivision (d) of Section 12072 shall not apply to the infrequent transfer of a handgun by gift, bequest, intestate succession, or other means by one individual to another if both individuals are members of the same immediate family and all of the following conditions are met:

(A) The person to whom the firearm is transferred shall, within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, forward by prepaid mail or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this paragraph shall be provided to them by the Department of Justice.

(B) The person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a basic firearms safety certificate. If taking possession on or after January 1, 2003, the person taking title to the firearm shall first obtain a handgun safety certificate.

(C) The person receiving the firearm is 18 years of age or older.

(3) As used in this subdivision, "immediate family member" means any one of the following relationships

(A) Parent and child.

(B) Grandparent and grandchild.

Agree or not, the law must be followed.

Please stop giving legal advice.

repub1mom 02-22-2013 8:48 AM

Just to add to the conversation. I've read everything here, and advised my boyfriend (his work schedule doesn't afford him the time to do all the research). He's filed his problem with the OP links. He successfully purchased and picked up a PPT of a handgun in January 2013. When picking up the handgun, he noticed a 30.06 in the shop he was interested in. Went back a couple weeks later and purchased it (somewhere around 2/2/13) On day 10 of the 10 day waiting period he got a call from the gun shop that he was 'on delay' and they couldn't release the gun to him. Makes no sense. He's been calling the DOJ every afternoon. Finally reached a flunky yesterday, who said she doesn't have access to why he was delayed and the people who DO aren't taking calls until the back log is cleared up. He was so pi$$ed he forgot to get her name/info/etc. He's over 50, for that person that asked, has lived in California his entire life, and like I said, had recently purchased a handgun. Why the problem with a hunting rifle? I'm just adding to the conversation. I know it's going to be a wait, as does he, we're just both irritated, as we're both law abiding gun owners who've never been delayed or denied before. We ARE however, worried that they could come and try to take his newly, very legally, purchased handgun. Should we be? And thanks to all of you out there working hard to ensure our rights aren't completely trampled! :/

JoeyJ 02-22-2013 9:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by PlayHard (Post 10609724)
Simple to fill out. I put "Record Review - Delayed DROS" as the "Reason for Application"

This link describes the process.

This link is where you can get the form with some description on how to fill it out. At the bottom of the page, it tells you what to do after you have received your RAP sheet ("Claim of Alleged Inaccuracy or Incompleteness" (form BCIA 8706)) . . . I got form BCIA 8706 from one of the CalGuns Foundation recommended attorneys.

At the very least, you'll know what's on your record . . . Best case, you'll get your information updated and know that there is nothing making you a "prohibited person". Try another DROS as you now know, for sure, there is NOTHING that should DELAY or DENY your application.

Thanks for the links!. It appears that other than the FBI check this primarily is targeted more for CA records, correct?
If I have anything on my record it would be arrests only in other states and go back almost 40 years. I cleared for a purchase last July under the current more strict "follow up on ANY arrest" that DOJ told me they are required to do since Feb 2012.
So I still have the question of why was I ok then and not now? DOJ offered no answer to that one. Other than perhaps I just fell into "we'll get to it later" pile just because of my being from out of state. I've had multiple BGCs done for major jobs and never had even the slightest concerns from anyone. I am shopping for another long gun so maybe that might stir the pot just enough to get my Ruger SR22 out of jail in time to train my daughter before she moves out of state later this year, lol. Both of my kids have had enough of CA and are both leaving this year.

Carlsbad rookie 02-22-2013 11:22 AM

Hello fellow poor soles still waiting on your DROS approval. I still am waiting for mine as well approx 32days so far and I was lucky enough to have someone answer when I called the DOJ today, couldnt believe it for a moment because i wasnt expecting anyone to answer. Anyway he explained to me that they are backed up for at least 90 days and that i just need to wait and be patient. He weas very polite and helpful although wouldnt get me in touch with the person in charge of my account but at least i got to talk to someone again and i'll just wait until May and call again. Good luck everyone!

RED (Y) 02-22-2013 12:01 PM

Got the same answer-can take up to 90 days,and FIY the Delays and Denials number (916-227-3749)-they won't answer it anymore and the guy from DOJ General line (Mike) said that you can't talk to person who got your case anymore.They are short on stuff,so he can't look it up and meanwhile and i can't talk to someone from Delays and Denials dept. So general answer to all my questions is "I don't know,i can't look it up" and "YOu need to wait up to 90 days" Wondering what would happen then-another 90? This is crazy.

JDay 02-22-2013 1:49 PM

Well I went and did the live scan today, should have a copy of my records by Tuesday. Guess I'll find out then if they're screwing with me or have some incorrect information on file.

BrokerB 02-22-2013 2:12 PM

Received a Delay letter-

Spoke with DOJ today- Lady said 28,000 delay letters have been sent out since December where they had 400,000 checks down.

ANy checks that showed any sort of abnormality and it was thrown into Delay pile . She said they were still working through January Delays

RED (Y) 02-22-2013 2:36 PM

I'm delayed since Jan 9th so if they are on January delays i might get my gun soon.

Pinoy11B 02-23-2013 9:16 AM

I too got a call from shop that my dros was delayed yesterday. Today suppose to be pick up day. I called DOJ yesterday and left a message. DOJ called today but can't tell me anything of why for person says cant see my file. I ask if you need anything from me? DOJ says none but DOJ will just call shop when ready to be release. Funny thing is its the second FA (pistol) I purchase. 1st one cleared with no issues.that was 30 days before this purchase. Hopefully it's all good to go next week.

lakersandguns 02-23-2013 6:47 PM

My dros was delay on my rifle. I was told to call doj, but I'm reading some post and feel like its more complicated then picking up the phone and calling them. What's the latest on this issue? What to do? I'm going to try calling Monday. Please help

wildhawker 02-23-2013 8:07 PM

Start at post #1.

lakersandguns 02-23-2013 8:33 PM

Done, will follow steps 1 and 2

JDay 02-24-2013 3:58 PM

Has anyone who was delayed in January had their firearms released yet? Trying to figure out if DOJ is really on the January delays.

RED (Y) 02-24-2013 4:19 PM

I'm still delayed.

Dustyzz 02-24-2013 7:38 PM

Got my delay December 24... Still on delay.

lakersandguns 02-24-2013 8:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dustyzz (Post 10635357)
Got my delay December 24... Still on delay.

Wow two months. Is doj doing this until something is voted in.

tcrpe 02-24-2013 8:44 PM

Well, speaking as someone who wasn't delayed, it is curious that DOJ appears to have created a new class of prohibited persons through administrative process. I don't believe that the kick-outs are random, rather (as DOJ has stated) the result of some new revised criteria. I don't know what new database(s) they've brought in, but I assume they are state database(s). I would think that there would be some commonalities among those delayed.

Only they would know what they are.

JDay 02-24-2013 9:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tcrpe (Post 10636100)
Well, speaking as someone who wasn't delayed, it is curious that DOJ appears to have created a new class of prohibited persons through administrative process. I don't believe that the kick-outs are random, rather (as DOJ has stated) the result of some new revised criteria. I don't know what new database(s) they've brought in, but I assume they are state database(s). I would think that there would be some commonalities among the delayed.

Only they would know what they are.

If that was the case explain how someone a page or so back made two purchases within days of each other and the first was delayed and the second had no issues. When DOJ was made aware of this they released the first one too. Personally I'm starting to suspect incompetence.

TRICKSTER 02-24-2013 11:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JDay (Post 10636560)
If that was the case explain how someone a page or so back made two purchases within days of each other and the first was delayed and the second had no issues. When DOJ was made aware of this they released the first one too. Personally I'm starting to suspect incompetence.

Incompetence on the DOJ's part and past acts coming back to haunt some of those now purchasing a firearm.

jonzer77 02-25-2013 5:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TRICKSTER (Post 10637315)
Incompetence on the DOJ's part and past acts coming back to haunt some of those now purchasing a firearm.

I wonder if they now have have access to the people that have MJ cards......

lakersandguns 02-25-2013 12:30 PM

Are they dicking around? I've been calling all day, sounds busy every time. Wtf

Carlsbad rookie 02-25-2013 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakersandguns (Post 10641073)
Are they dicking around? I've been calling all day, sounds busy every time. Wtf

Good luck getting through...I called about 30 times a day to 3 different numbers and finally got through after over a week of trying. They'll probably tell you the same thing as everyone else and that to be patient and wait at least 90 days. yes it sucks but unfortunately we are completely helpless and just have to wait.

lakersandguns 02-25-2013 1:08 PM

Thanks. I sent them an email.

wildhawker 02-25-2013 1:42 PM

To repeat: read post #1.

lakersandguns 02-25-2013 1:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tallic68 (Post 10641564)
A few weeks ago(approx January 30) I was contacted by RSO CCW unit regarding my permit. I was told that CAL DOJ was inquiring with them as to why I was issued a permit. A permit renewed in Oct of 2012. They were told I needed to produce documents on an arrest in 1996 that had no disposition. I told the deputy that I had no documentation on this arrest.

For the next week I exhausted every avenue I could think of to track down info. The Riverside co District attorney , RSO, RSO records and the southwest detention center had no clue what I was talking about, let alone able to help with any documentation. In 96' I never went to court, so no court paperwork, the DA never even got the case, so no paperwork at the DA. The jail I was booked at had no record of me being there, and the records department has nothing, not even the police report. The absolutely only thing RSO records could dig up was a copy of a "certificate of detention" that is marked," did not make last day arraignment". I was there, I know, I was in custody. Come to find out, the arresting agency doesn't exist any longer, and hasn't since 1996. All records were micro filmed or destroyed by RSO when they took over the contract. I submitted the cert of detention to the CCW unit along with a court record search on me from 1995 to present.

Today I talked to the deputy at the CCW unit and was told the paperwork I submitted did not satisfy the CA DOJ. They want more proof of my innocence. He also told me that the DOJ is breathing down their neck about this and 5 other permit holders in the same situation. 1 of the other permit holders is dealing with a situation the same as mine from the mid 70's.

The deputy said he was sorry for the situation and it was BS that I have to do this since they already cleared me. He said there must have been some kind of rule change. I told him about some of the stories I've heard about on this thread and he was flabbergasted. I said if I went to buy a new gun I would probably be put on a "delay" as many of you have been. He said definitely. You have been red flagged and the DOJ Wants to pull my permit if I cant prove my case. The deputy gave me a number and I have been calling it all day so far with no luck. I know, I know, I'll keep trying.

I find this crazy. I renewed my permit in Oct. I put a Saiga through an undelayed DROS in DEC/JAN. I've bought multiple firearms since 2009, applied, received and renewed my CA permit, renewed my EMT and Paramedic license, and received a Nevada CCW. All with no delays or hiccups. WTF is the problem all of a sudden.

Rant over.
Just posting to have my case tallied and let everyone here know I hear ya. Although I don't have a gun in "delay" jail right now. If I try. I am positive it will be. So why try.

Well I think why my rifle got delay. I was involve in an incident on dec 31 were I was arrested for assult with deadly weapon. I was never charged, DA never charge me, case was thrown out.As I stated self defense.

RED (Y) 02-25-2013 2:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lakersandguns (Post 10641073)
Are they dicking around? I've been calling all day, sounds busy every time. Wtf

If you are calling (916) 227-3749-don't waste your time,they are not answering that phone.You can call (916) 227-7527 to hear that you have to wait at least 90 days,and they can't look up your case.


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