Calguns.net - FAQ from Customers to FFLs - Check here first before making a new thread!

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tenpercentfirearms

01-27-2012 7:54 AM

FAQ from Customers to FFLs - Check here first before making a new thread!

Listed below are the most frequently asked questions in the FFL forums in no particular order. These questions and answers are in no way legal advice and should not be construed as such. Some answers will cover all legal aspects and some answers might give a practical answer.

Additionally, many questions can also be answered in the Calguns Foundation Wiki. http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/Main_Page

If you think a new question needs to be asked, please post it in a new reply and it will be edited into this FAQ.

1. Can I PPT a handgun not registered to me? Yes you can. It might not be legal, but no one at the DOJ cares and your background as the seller will only be run if the buyer is unable to complete the transaction. So if you bought a handgun illegally 5 years ago without paperwork and now want to legally sell it, just go down and PPT it. The same rule applies for longguns, which are currently not registered.

2. Do I have to pay sales tax on out of state transfers? FFLs are considered the final retailer when DROSing and transfering retail firearms sales from out of state. FFLs are not required to collect the sales tax, but they are required to pay it. So most FFLs will require you to reimburse them for the sales tax due. If your FFL doesn't, keep your mouth shut about it and enjoy it. Just be aware in audit, your FFL will pay dearly and if not prepared to pay all of those back taxes, penalties, and interest, they most likely won't be in business anymore.

3. Do you know of a local dealer in my area? Yes, there is already a sticky for that.

FU12	04-24-2012 7:44 PM

Can you purchase ammunition for a pistol chambered carbine if you're under the age of 21?

Librarian

07-30-2013 7:06 PM

What documentation is required to purchase a gun?

All gun sales require proof of identity - typically a CA Driver License or ID card. See the DOJ FAQ.

Hand gun purchases additionally require proof of residency (not 'a second form of ID'); see the DOJ FAQ.

When does the 10-day wait begin?

When the dealer submits the DROS.

Why do some dealers require 11 or more days when the law says 10?

Sometimes it is because the shop will not be open on day 10. Sometimes it is an 'insurance policy' against mistakes - an FFL might lose his license if he is audited and found to have released guns early.

When does the 30 days start for the handgun one in thirty days?

When the dealer submits the DROS.

Must I buy a lock?

Generally, yes.

CA requires a safety device for every gun sale. CA will accept a safe affidavit for both long guns and hand guns. However, Feds require a safety device for hand guns, and will not accept CA's safe affidavit.

An FFL can accept the lock included in the package, simply give you a lock, or sell you one; all three practices have been reported.

What is a Private Party Transfer (PPT)?

A PPT is a special kind of transfer where a seller with CA ID (or military ID and PCS orders to CA) meets a buyer with CA ID (or military ID and PCS orders to CA) at one CA FFL to make the transfer of a gun from seller to buyer.

(To repeat, both parties must be residents of California, and both must appear at the same California FFL.)

Handguns transferred through PPT are exempt from the Roster of Handguns Approved for Sale.

Handgun transfers through PPT are exempt from the one in thirty days limit, except in the City of Los Angeles.

What is an intrafamilial transfer?

An intrafamilial transfer is a special California-only thing. It comes in 2 forms:
a) 2 CA residents, parent to child, child to parent, grandparent to grandchild, grandchild to grandparent - and ONLY those relationships - may give or sell firearms among themselves without involving an FFL. The receiver must file a form with CA-DOJ, the Roster of Handguns does not apply, the 10-day wait does not apply, the 1-in-30 does not apply.

b) A CA resident may receive, from an out of state parent or grandparent or child or grandchild, a gun. Federal law requires the transfer go directly through a CA FFL - do not call CA-DOJ on this, because they mostly forget Federal law. The Roster of Handguns does not apply, but the waiting periods do apply.

brad96cdc

09-15-2018 5:15 AM

How long is a PO agency ten day waiver letter good from date signed,?

Is a Peace officer Agency 10 day waiver letter only applicable at time of purchase ?

Example 1. PO buys two firearms w letter on the same day it’s good to go

Example 2 same PO buys one firearm Friday w letter , then due to lack of funds or wife permission , comes back Monday to buy another firearm w same letter is it yeah or nay?
Thank you

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taperxz

09-15-2018 7:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad96cdc (Post 22115552)

Since the letter must have make, model and serial number on it...

brad96cdc

09-15-2018 7:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by taperxz (Post 22115887)

Since the letter must have make, model and serial number on it...

There are two types of letters
One to waive ten day which my question is about
And the other which I think your referring to is for full auto etc...
See PM

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RoundEye

09-15-2018 7:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by brad96cdc (Post 22115552)

There is not "date requirement" in the regulations that I can find. As long as you're still an active officer with that agency on which the letter is drawn, I would think the letter to be valid. The FFL will make a copy of the letter to keep with each DROS.

Quote:

10 Day Waiting Period Exemption

The waiting period described in Penal Code section 26815 does not apply to the sale, delivery, or transfer of firearms made to any person who satisfies both of the following requirements:

The person is properly identified as a full-time paid peace officer, as defined in Chapter 4.5 (commencing with Section 830) of Title 3 of Part 2.
The officer’s employer has authorized the officer to carry firearms while in the performance of duties (Pen. Code, § 26950, subds. (a)(1) and (2).)
Proper identification is defined as verifiable written certification from the head of the agency by which the purchaser or transferee is employed, identifying the purchaser or transferee as a peace officer who is authorized to carry firearms while in the performance of duties, and authorizing the purchase or transfer (Pen. Code, § 26950, subd. (b)(1).)

https://oag.ca.gov/firearms/exemptpo

brad96cdc

09-15-2018 8:06 AM

FAQ from Customers to FFLs - Check here first before making a new thread!

Thank you and agreed
LGS said they would honor the letter for thirty days from date signed
Store policy

Silly Ca Laws
DOJ has every PO’s status on file
There is no need for this rule or law

It should be present an PO ID enter in DROs
And see the results done
If the issuing agency / dept wants to suspend the PO status they can flag your status at anytime

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fast14riot

04-16-2020 6:58 PM

My local shop is looking for the corresponding PC for me buying a gun from a private party out of state, and shipped from an individual (not FFL). He was under the impression that is illegal, however I and I know many others who have done this many, many times.

He is looking for how he accepts it into his inventory and then proceeds with the dros and paperwork for me, the purchaser.

Gun is standard bolt action long gun, no special circumstances like handgun or AW.

MacFly

07-04-2020 9:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Librarian (Post 11949684)

Handgun transfers through PPT are exempt from the one in thirty days limit, except in the City of Los Angeles.[/INDENT]What is an intrafamilial transfer?[INDENT]An intrafamilial transfer is a special California-only thing. It comes in 2 forms:
a) 2 CA residents, parent to child, child to parent, grandparent to grandchild, grandchild to grandparent - and ONLY those relationships - may give or sell firearms among themselves without involving an FFL. The receiver must file a form with CA-DOJ, the Roster of Handguns does not apply, the 10-day wait does not apply, the 1-in-30 does not apply.

So if I were to PPT a firearm in Los Angeles, I can turn around and purchase another firearm with a FFL in Orange County within a 30 day window?

RoundEye

07-04-2020 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by John Photography (Post 24486530)

So if I were to PPT a firearm in Los Angeles, I can turn around and purchase another firearm with a FFL in Orange County within a 30 day window?

Yes, the 1:30 only applies to dealer sales.

MacFly

07-04-2020 10:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RoundEye (Post 24486759)

Yes, the 1:30 only applies to dealer sales.

Thanks! Shopping I go....

ItsFrost

07-28-2020 8:52 PM

This is probably a stupid question, however I haven't been able to find a definitive answer anywhere. I was finally able to get my real ID after the DMVs reopened. A day after receiving it in the mail, I went to Turners to start the DROS for a Glock17 that had been sitting in-store since March.

The DROS was submitted on 7/13 and I picked up the firearm yesterday. My question is: I'm interested in purchasing a firearm from a calguns member that's posted in the marketplace. I don't know if it matters, but it is a long gun. I'm not sure if that's a purchase I can make right away or if there's a waiting period before I can do so. I read that PPTs are exempt the 30 day wait, however I just want to make sure I'm not wasting anyone's time by setting up a meet and making the drive for no reason.

If anyone that has experience with PPTs can help me out with this information, I'd really appreciate.

MacFly

07-28-2020 8:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ItsFrost (Post 24592054)

PPT aren’t limited to 1 in 30 like dealer sales are.

FlyingZippy

10-05-2020 8:23 PM

I read the part that both parties of a PPT need to be at the same FFL, but does it need to be at the same time?
For instance, if a seller were to go to the FFL and do his part of the paperwork, could I go to the FLL a few days later for my end of the paperwork? (I'm trying to buy a gun that's about 9 hours north in CA). I understand that I would then have to wait 10 days and return to the same FFL. Or am I wrong in believing they can't ship to another FFL after the 10 days?
Thanks in advance

SkyHawk

10-05-2020 9:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FlyingZippy (Post 24895188)

It cannot be shipped at any time during the process, period.

Yes in theory a DROS WORKSHEET can be done allowing buyer and seller to appear at different times. This is in fact how consignments work. And that is also where your idea may hit a snag.

It is one thing for the dealer to hold it for a few hours, to allow the buyer to arrive and do his part. And this assumes the payment has all been arranged between the parties, leaving the FFL completely out of it. And most FFLs are only going to do this if one of the parties is well known (and liked) by the FFL.

But if you plan on leaving a gun there for days, now there may be other issues. The FFL is perhaps required to log it onto his books. The transaction may be viewed as a consignment, which may have tax implications etc.

So in short, it is possible in theory for buyer and seller to make seperate appearances but in practice is not often done and almost certainly not very likely if it spans days.

Perhaps some of the FFLs here can enlighten us but this thread is sort of necro looking so you may not ever get more answers.

user916

10-15-2020 12:09 AM

Hi everyone,

Not sure if this has been addressed here but I just learned about it recently so I have a stacked question..

What is the “Terrice” (spelling) form that FFL’s are supposed to submit to the ATF that reports multiple pistols or revolvers purchased from a nonlicensee within a 5 business day period and how does that effect the buyer?

I’ve heard that it needs to be submitted when you do multiple PPT’s within 5 business days and I’ve heard it’s submitted when you pick up multiple (after the 10 day waiting period) within 5 business days, is it one or the other or both?

Does it matter if they’re all on one Dros or multiple, is it only for PPT’s, and what if they’re from different FFL’s, how would they know?

I know someone that just sold like 30 guns in a month but buyers can’t purchase 30 PPT’s in a month if they wanted?

Obviously asking because it’d be nice to know if anything raises red flags that can be avoided and don’t understand why it matters if I happen to find multiple deals from different sellers within 5 days or pick up different guns from multiple sellers on the same day. Must be a California thing?

TIA

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SkyHawk

10-15-2020 8:45 AM

It is a federal thing and basically it doesn't matter unless maybe you are on some government watch list. I have never once worried about it or planned around it, and I have had many filed for purchases I have made.

There is a current thread going here with some more info https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/....php?t=1657277

mtsul

01-20-2023 7:22 AM

I am in the process of moving out of California….
And I have a few handguns on consignment at a LGS do I need to get them back before I leave? And before I get a new DL/ID in my new state?
(I’m keeping my CA house) but I’m buying a house in Kansas too. And thet will be my primary residence (the Kansas house)

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