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So, yes, technically you cannot load in/near a public campsite, until you are in your own campsite, at which point 12031 no longer applies and you can load. It sounds ridiculous but it's just the letter of the law. Now if you are out in an undeveloped area or undesignated campsite then you are OK to load both in or near your campsite. Edit: See scenarios 2,3,4 in the third post of this thread. |
What about heading away/to your truck? I hike in The Angeles Forest and most times do not park in trail heads but just pull of the road. When walking back to my truck I keep my shotgun chambered in the off chance that somebody is doing something they shouldn't. Do I need to have a clear chamber once within 150 feet of the road?
This is my first post and I would like to thank everyone here for such a great site and this most useful thread |
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What does all this conflicting code mean? In all probability it means that a Game Warden would only care if you have a round in the chamber, and a forest service LEO probably doesn't even care if it's loaded, since according to CFR you just can't be shooting there. But if you ran into a gung-ho sheriff's deputy he might cite you for 12031. Now if you are hunting, then you would seem to be able to keep the rounds in the magazine. F&G code only requires you to remove the round from the chamber near the road. And 12031 contains this: Quote:
Edit to add: If you are hunting, or using any hunting related code exemptions, you need to watch out for the lead ammo ban. |
Help Please...
I'm really trying to get this and not having much luck...
Scenario 1. I'm camping in a NF campground and will be fishing in the stream running directly adjacent to the campground. I must walk across a paved roadway to get from my campsite to the stream. All campsites have adjacent campsites that I must walk between to get to the stream. When I get to the stream I will be wading in and perhaps accross the stream. There are campsites adjacent to portions of the stream I am fishing. If I have some luck and keep a few nice fish, I'll be cleaning them while standing in or partially in the stream. Scenario 2. Same NF campgroud. I will drive approx. 2 miles (designated road) to a lake with the NF and park in a paved parking lot and walk to the shore of the lake and either fish from shore, wade some distance from shore or fish from a float tube some distance from shore. What I'd really like to know is if I can legally cc while fishing in the above circumstances and if so when I may cc after leaving my campsite. I really have read everything in this thread but I'm pretty thick headed. Thanks in advance for your opinion. |
Seems like a hassle all the way around and confusing too.... Again we should (if legal to own a gun ) should be legally able to carry it loaded at all times.
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As a licensed fisherman on a fishing expedition you can legally concealed carry per the 12027 exemption to 12025, but this is concealed only, not loaded. Quote:
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I'm confused now. Where does the "within 150 yards of a road or stream" come from? I was in the El Dorado Nat. Forest last week, and stopped in at the Georgetown Ranger Sta. to pick up some road maps. While there, I was talking with the ranger and we discussed shooting. He pulled up, printed, and handed me a copy of the webpage for the El Dorado Nation Forest, Recreational Activities: Shooting. it is at:
http://www.fs.fed.us/r5/eldorado/recreation/shooting/ Under regulations, it has Quote:
residnece, building, campsite, developed recreation site, or occupied area The prohibition regarding roads is "Across or on a Forest Development road" and for water it is "[Across or on] a body of water adjacent thereto." A further look at the code of federal regs that these are contained in, 36CFR 261.10d, the breakout is clear that the 150 yards applies only to instance #1: Quote:
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As for 12031 and the federal CFR shooting restrictions in NF, it's all covered in the first 2 posts of this thread. 12031 prohibits loading in "prohibited area of unincorporated territory". A "prohibited area" is defined as "any place where it is unlawful to discharge a weapon". The reality is that the federal LEOs in a NF are probably not going to understand all the subtleties of CA law, but it doesn't mean that the law doesn't apply. I prefer to always obey the law and not face criminal charges. Quote:
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"Across or on a National Forest System road or a body of water adjacent thereto" = across or on a NF road or adjacent thereto, or, across or on a body of water or adjacent thereto |
Thanks all for the discussion and opinions, I really appreciate your time. I will probably limit myself to bear spray. Someone reading these posts asked me if my campsite were the only one within 150 yds in any direction, would I have to unload within 150 yds of my own campsite seeing as I would not be occupying it at the time?
Head is spinninggggggg... |
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NFS, prohibited shooting question... Occupied area, Does that include "in the middle of desolation" when someone decides to camp near you? Is this now an occupied area and now "prohibited"?
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Similar to that last question: My friends and I go out to BLM land, set up tents in the middle of nowhere as we'll be camping that evening and prepare to shoot at a safe backstop, nowhere near a road, body of water or "developed" campsite, do we have to move 150 feet away from our own tents?
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Now, the rules about concealed carry only affect handguns, correct? I'm assuming that stuffing a shotgun into my framed backpack with the stock sticking out the top is ok, right?
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I have shot in both the lowest and highest parts of Stanislaus Forest, there's never a problem, so long as you aren't being stupid (rapid fire, shooting over roads, water or near buildings, etc)...
In the Emigrant I carry a G27 in a drop with a mag on it & another in it, and I have never had problems. The last trip we had (2 weeks ago to Lane lake from Leavitt TH) we conversed with the ranger for about an hour and nothing came up about it. I usually just quote that bad people can be much more dangerous when law is miles away, and that there's always animals as well.. but that question has only come up from friends, not authorities. ;) Though if you're marching along with your mossberg or scoped rifle, they'd probably question you. |
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Bump for updated HR627 link and citations.
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how about air rifles? are they considered as firearms by our legislatures?
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tagged...
holy carp... lots of great info! |
So Alot about national forest has been asked, but what if you are in "National wildlife refuge" land, say fishing the Sac river, and you conceal unloaded carry, would this be protected under 12027(g)? is this legal since it does not violate 12031?
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Guys, how about transportation ? Can I transport container-locked unloaded handguns and unloaded rifles in Forests/Parks/etc ? Does it make a difference if unloaded rifle is inside the vehicle, or it is inside one's tent ? Thanks!
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national forests and BLM land if you have a CCW can you carry? Thanks
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First, Forests/Parks/etc could mean many different governing agencies and different rules. See the first post. Second, for the more restrictive lands, yes, generally you can transport locked, but not necessarily just unloaded. Read the first and second post. All your questions are answered there. |
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Thank you for all of the effort you put into the replies, Mud Camper.
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National Forests for the win!
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I do have a question, since we're all here :)
This weekend I was deer hunting, and since nobody had any luck we decided to drive into town to get some food. On the way back to camp we are stopped by a DFG warden. We were in a truck and had our rifles just in case we happened along a buck (we were on a NF road at the time). He stops and asks us if were hunting, and when we said yes he asked to see our licenses and tags. Once he was happy with that, he checked our rifles for chambered rounds. I was surprised he did not say "hand me your rifles" but rather just had us pull the bolts back. Anyway, none of us had a round chambered so we were ok. He then asked if anyone had a handgun. We all said no and that was the end of the encounter. Later, when we got back to camp, I looked into my pack (I had it with me) and noticed I did in fact have my handgun with me. It was unloaded but I did have two loaded mags in the same pack. It's just a backpack so there are no locks or anything. If I understand everything right (big if!) I was legal because we were hunting. However, in town was I illegal because that was clearly a prohibited area? But, in town I would of been legal if the gun was not in the pack, instead just sitting out in the open? Or, was it legal just because we were still under the transporting clause of hunting? It's really ridiculous how a simple hunting trip can result in a misdemeanor offense if things go the wrong way. And the reality is the laws are very confusing for most of us who do not spend hours and hours researching the various codes and sections from multiple agencies. Heck, I'm up super late tonight just reading and looking at the laws related to fishing and hunting only. |
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"(g) Licensed hunters or fishermen carrying pistols, revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the person while engaged in hunting or fishing, or transporting those firearms unloaded when going to or returning from the hunting or fishing expedition." http://law.onecle.com/california/penal/12027.html 12027 doesn't have this limiter like 12026.2 does: "the course of travel shall include only those deviations between authorized locations as are reasonably necessary under the circumstances" So no worries even though you didn't head straight back to camp. |
Mudcamper,
I'd like to go hiking in the Cleveland National Forest around Silverado, CA. You list national forests as "permited, but state law applies". Seeing as it's unincorporated and rural would LOC be permitted? I don't want to shoot out there, just carry for obvious reasons. |
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Anyway, yes, LOC is legal, provided it is not in an area where shooting is prohibited, at which times only UOC is legal. Prohibited areas include within 150 yards of any residence, building, campsite, or developed site, or on/across a road or body of water. |
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The difficult part of Holy Jim is at the trailhead marker, there are the NFS "NO SHOOTING" stickers. I have carried LOC before for safety, though wonder if because of the stickers (no sign) that this is not permitted. There is no camping allowed up there nor buildings (short of the radio towers at the top) to have to worry about... If anyone can shed light on these stickers, that would be great. But for me, It still has a degree of gray area... |
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