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-   -   How do you load rifle Ammo? (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1447590)

idlplumb 05-11-2018 11:56 PM

How do you load rifle Ammo?
 
I知 just curious how you guys load your rifle ammo, specifically, the precision stuff.

For my .308, I have about a dozen steps:

1) decap with lee universal decapper
2) wet tumble
3) lube
4) full length resize
5) trim with lee quick trim and drill
6) deburr and chamfer with drill attachments
7) check brass with case gauge
8) run flash hole uniformer
9) run primer pocket uniformer
10) wet tumble again
11) prime with lee hand primer
12) charge with Lyman gen 6
13) seat bullet
14) verify OAL with calipers

I知 just trying to figure out if I知 spending too much time in brass prep and if there are steps that can be eliminated or combined with different equipment.

I知 also planning on annealing somewhere between these steps, just not sure where in the order it should fall...


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longrange1 05-12-2018 1:48 AM

heres what i do...


1) decap with lee universal decapper
2) wet tumble...250-300 cases for 1 hour
3) lube...with lanolin and 100% alcohol
4) full length resize
5) trim with lee quick trim and drill...same different tool
6) deburr and chamfer...my trimmer does this
7) check brass with case gauge...never owned a case gauge...i never seen the need if your FL sizing and trimming
8) run flash hole uniformer...dont do this any more
9) run primer pocket uniformer
10) wet tumble again...im guessing to clean off the lube?...i use alcohol and a micro fiber rag...tumbling after deburring is pinning the mouths and may be causing small issues you dont know or realize
11) prime with lee hand primer...same different tool
12) charge with Lyman gen 6...same different scale
13) seat bullet
14) verify OAL with calipers...tips vary so much you should be checking base to ogive not over all length

edgerly779 05-12-2018 3:29 AM

Way to much prep unless shooting for sub moa.

koehn,jim 05-12-2018 3:46 AM

I do my annealing before the full length resize. I also do not uniform the flash hole and primer after the first time. I rarely have to trim, I use the RCBS x-dies and they really work. I also do my load development on a single station press, once I have it worked out I use the Dillon progressive press.

kcstott 05-12-2018 4:03 AM

Here's how I do it.

starting with new unfired unprimed Peterson brass

All brass is run through a forester benchrest precision full length sizer first. lanolin and alcohol mix for lube
Hand primed on an RCBS hand priming tool using BR primers
Powder charges are droped to within .05 grains on an A&D milligram scale with auto drop/trickle kit
Bullets are seated with a forester Micrometer seater and checked with a bullet comparator. They are seated to my selected depth depending on the bullet used, I have multiple bullets available to me in my load binder so if I run out or can't immediately get one bullet i have options.
Cartridges are individually wiped off with alcohol to remove lube and placed in cartridge box

Now there are some changes for once fired brass.
I neck size only with a forester neck bushing bump die from this point out until the should needs a bump and that take a few firings to do.
I also anneal every other loading
I also do not clean my brass for at least three firings

Trimming is done when cases need it



Things I don't do and see no need to do

I don't sort brass by weight, uniform primer pocket or the flash hole I spend good money on good brass to not have to.
I do not wet tumble, shiny brass looks good in a box but will not help your group size.
I do not sort bullets by weight or bearing surface.
I have yet to make up my mind if bullet tipping is worth the investment in tooling for a minor increase in BC

tonyjr 05-12-2018 6:16 PM

I don't do pression .
1st lube , then deprime , size neck [ maybe every 5 - 6 reloads
get fl resizing ]
then the cases are cleaned - primer pocket flash hule and case
run on prep center [ RCBS and neck brushed ]
Run thru a tube of cases on load master - check powder drop and OAL .
I put them in plastic ammo boxes [ which gun on label ]
I seldom have more than 10 reloads before putting in ammo box .
I have seen people with 1 , 2 gallon buckets and ammo cans with
loose rounds - I am afraid the bullets would can be knocked loose .
Not saying those people are wrong - it is just not me .

Mesa Defense 05-12-2018 9:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcstott (Post 21632161)
Here's how I do it.

starting with new unfired unprimed Peterson brass

All brass is run through a forester benchrest precision full length sizer first. lanolin and alcohol mix for lube
Hand primed on an RCBS hand priming tool using BR primers
Powder charges are droped to within .05 grains on an A&D milligram scale with auto drop/trickle kit
Bullets are seated with a forester Micrometer seater and checked with a bullet comparator. They are seated to my selected depth depending on the bullet used, I have multiple bullets available to me in my load binder so if I run out or can't immediately get one bullet i have options.
Cartridges are individually wiped off with alcohol to remove lube and placed in cartridge box

Now there are some changes for once fired brass.
I neck size only with a forester neck bushing bump die from this point out until the should needs a bump and that take a few firings to do.
I also anneal every other loading
I also do not clean my brass for at least three firings

Trimming is done when cases need it



Things I don't do and see no need to do

I don't sort brass by weight, uniform primer pocket or the flash hole I spend good money on good brass to not have to.
I do not wet tumble, shiny brass looks good in a box but will not help your group size.
I do not sort bullets by weight or bearing surface.
I have yet to make up my mind if bullet tipping is worth the investment in tooling for a minor increase in BC



KC,

How do you like the Peterson brass?

Kwikvette 05-12-2018 10:27 PM

I only use new brass (Nosler) and pretty much follow kcstott's process except, I do wet tumble my brass after it's been fired once.

idlplumb 05-13-2018 12:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edgerly779 (Post 21632144)
Way to much prep unless shooting for sub moa.



Why shoot if not for accuracy?


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Dave626 05-13-2018 1:06 AM

I use Peterson and lapua brass, so I skip duburr the flash hole.

Anneal all brass
Wet trumble
Dry
Dillion spray lube, *least effect on headspacing
Body die
Lee necksizer die, *neck concenticity under .002 reading
Use microfiber rag clean up the lube or wet trumble again
Check coal, trim it if necessary
Prime with my press, more consistent for me
Powder weight with A&D scientific scales
Seating with Redding competition seating die.

Bainter1212 05-13-2018 4:03 AM

Nobody crimps here?

I crimp for my magazine-fed semis. Last step of all.

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kcstott 05-13-2018 5:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mesa Defense (Post 21635269)
KC,

How do you like the Peterson brass?

If Peterson Makes it, I won't use anything else.
Consistent weight, sized, trimmed, chamfered, cleaned. neck tension is very consistent. primer pockets are tight. noticeably tighter than lapua

kcstott 05-13-2018 5:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bainter1212 (Post 21635633)
Nobody crimps here?

I crimp for my magazine-fed semis. Last step of all.

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Only if you want to really screw up your accuracy.

I only crimp heavy magnums and I mean African dangerous game magnums or I crimp tube feed guns, 30-30 and the like.
https://scontent.fsan1-2.fna.fbcdn.n...96&oe=5B545267
Mt .416 Rigby loads 400 grain Hornady DGX bullet over 100 grain of 7828


Well I take that back a bit I do crimp .223/5.56 but I don't consider that rifle accurate and don't really care what it eats. It's in camp for two reasons, something cheep to shoot with low recoil for any new shooters that may show up, and self protection.

But no Match ammo gets a crimp yet. I say Yet as I have a new project cooking and it may require a crimp, And 1874 Shilo Sharps Quigley in 45-110. Those rounds need a crimp to insure proper ignition of the powder.

JackEllis 05-13-2018 5:46 AM

I follow the same routine as the OP with a couple of exceptions: wash in hot water, Dawn and Lemishine instead of wet tumbling. First to remove range grime, second to remove case lube. I don't run cases through a gauge. I check length periodically but generally speaking once the die is dialed in it produces consistent rounds.

I do weigh each charge individually (sometimes twice, once on a beam and again on an electronic) and load on a single stage press because it's all for rifle.

Since I'm handling the cases many times I have lots of opportunities to see defects and problems

I want reasonable accuracy but I also don't want to spend all my time hand loading at the expense of flying, fishing and hunting so one MOA is good enough for me.

tonyjr 05-13-2018 6:40 AM

Bainter1212
The crimping die is always there , weather it needs or not .

NorCalFocus 05-13-2018 7:55 AM

1. Anneal
2. Lube with Hornady sizing wax and FL size with a Forster die, bumping the shoulders .001-.003
2. Only if needed trim, chamfer and deburr.
3. Tumble in rice for two hours
4. Clean the primer pockets with the RCBS brush
5. Prime on my CPS Lite
6. Throw with the charger master and trickle up with my beam scale and trickler.
7. Seat bullets with my Forster seating die.

I値l check the first few cases with my comparator and same for bullets. Once I have the dies set, I just run through em.

Khromo 05-13-2018 8:42 AM

I watched a terrific video that G. David Tubb made some years ago. For me, it was like listening to a burning bush!

He said the most important element of case prep was neck turning. Period. He was pretty clear about that. If you are going to do any case prep at all, turn the necks, according to the most decorated shooter of our time.

He threw charges from a measure for short course and offhand practice, but he could throw very accurately, within about a tenth if I remember correctly. A lot of benchrest shooters believe that +/- 0.1 grain is not material. I give those guys great credence.

He also used a concentricity gauge after the bullets were seated, dividing his loaded rounds by runout. Less than 4 thousandths went in the good pile for long range matches, more than 4 were used for practice and short ranges.

Finding your perfect compromise between precision and convenience is different for everybody. For me, about 0.75 MOA comes fairly easily using top shelf brass and Sierra MatchKings. Getting down below 0.5 MOA requires that I sweat every chicken**** detail until I start to pee blood.

The best advise I ever heard for how to streamline the process was to sort bullets by price!

Jimmy's 05-13-2018 9:38 AM

Leave out the flash hole uniforming, leave out the 2nd wet tumble, leave out the drill and do by hand.
You should only need to check OAL one time.
IMO

hambam105 05-13-2018 11:36 AM

How do I reload rifle ammunition?
 
Easy. One at a time. :)

doyouevenchop 05-13-2018 12:30 PM

I just "invested" in a wet tumbler, so I'll try it out and see if primer pocket cleaning helps tighten up my groups; I already get 10 shot 1 MOA groups for 308, but I want to get down to ~.75

I don't precision trim or turn necks or anything. Just FL size with a shoulder bump of 0.002-0.003" and try to get consistent primer seating depth and bullet seating.

I have never uniformed flash holes, cleaned primer pockets, or sorted anything by size/weight/etc.

In my scientific opinion, the margin of improvement possible from doing those time-intensive activities is significantly less than the margin of improvement possible by working on shooting fundamentals.

tonyjr 05-13-2018 2:40 PM

Primer pocket build up can cause non center seating of primer .
Flash hole dabre build up / non round holes can change flame to go
in wrong direction .
Since duck hunters are about the only ones who shoot up [ powder equally around sides ] it may not matter .

LynnJr 05-13-2018 4:23 PM

Start off with new virgin brass.
Add primer add powder add bullet and shoot it.
Deprime and tumble in walnut shell.
Full length size with 0.001 shoulder bump then trim to a uniform length. Neck turn the brass.
Chamfer the neck inside and outside then uniform primer pockets and flashhole.
Weigh the brass and segregate into 1 grain batches.
If you have a Juenke machine sort the brass.
Add primer powder seat bullet and fire.
Re-prep everything as you did earlier.
Now everything is ready for a match so weigh every component to the smallest possible variation. Brass,primers,powder and bullets.
Seat all your bullets 0.030 long and do your final seating the night before the match. Seating depth should be within 0.001 powder should be within a kernel primers should be exactly the same weight as should bullets. Brass can vary up to a full grain.

idlplumb 05-13-2018 10:30 PM

Some good advice here guys. I知 noticing that there are a few steps I could skip or consolidate and maybe some new equipment I could buy to help speed things up.

I知 not competing, but I would like to know that group size is my fault and not something I知 doing wrong with the loads. That痴 why I don稚 mind spending the extra time with brass prep.


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17+1 05-13-2018 10:48 PM

1) tumble
2) full length size
3) trim (as required)
4) chamfer/deburr (as required)
5) tumble (can move this to end if you’re using lube that won’t degrade powder)
6) prime
7) powder and bullet

Shoots better than I do if I use good components.

kcstott 05-14-2018 3:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by idlplumb (Post 21638657)
Some good advice here guys. I知 noticing that there are a few steps I could skip or consolidate and maybe some new equipment I could buy to help speed things up.

I知 not competing, but I would like to know that group size is my fault and not something I知 doing wrong with the loads. That痴 why I don稚 mind spending the extra time with brass prep.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Extra brass prep will not show up till you are competing in international benchrest and shooting high tens to low hundreds. (i.e. groups that range from .080" to .130")

With crap brass and good bullets and attention to powder charge you can get groups in the sub moa range quite easily.

This is not scientific stats but i'd guess about 85% of your rifles accuracy outside of the barrel is the quality of the bullet and the consistency in the powder charge. Brass becomes and issue with inconsistent powder capacity creating inconsistent pressures and therefor inconsistent velocities. Neck tension becomes an issue as well and this can be solved by using a bushing die for the most part but with slight inconsistency in neck wall thicknesses, this is where neck turning comes in to play. Neck turning creates uniform wall thicknesses and therefor uniform neck tension and it also reduces bullet runout assuming the ID was concentric to the axis of the case.

That said there is also the point of sorting bullets by weight, then buy bearing surface, meplat trimming and tipping for higher BC's, weight sorting of brass, benchrest primers, using and arbor press and benchrest dies. the rabbit hole runs as deep as you like. but for 99% of us it comes down to quality brass with a quality bullet and a good amount of attention to detail. Match grade ammo can be made on non match loading gear. it just depends on the match you are shooting.

I see more vertical stringing from the temp rise throughout the day and guys leaving their ammo boxes in the sun then anything else, Also chambering a round in a hot chamber, don't do it till you are ready to fire. that heat in the chamber will soak in the brass and warm your powder causing a higher velocity. I run a sled in my f class matches, i set a round on the sled bolt open. get pretty close to lined up natural point of aim and all that rebuild my position as needed. then chamber the round make my final adjustment and press the trigger at my natural respiratory pause.
If i'm lucky and didn't pull the shot, read the wind right, I should be in the 10 ring. but I'm working on that I shout a 9.2 point average right now.


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