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-   -   Monterey (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=352771)

obeygiant 10-14-2010 10:21 PM

Monterey
 
(deleted outdated info/links)

UPDATE (2015 May 10):
If you go thru p. 5 of this thread, you'll see that Sheriff Bernal has followed Sheriff Miller's CCW policy of accepting "self-defense" (SD), aka "personal protection", as sufficient Good Cause (GC) and has a radically increased the burden of Good Moral Character (GMC) (thus the "caveat" in the title). Nonetheless, if a law-abiding resident merely wants -- not "needs" -- a CCW, you should be able to get one if you pass the sheriff's unreasonable GMC requirements.

After the quote from the sheriff's CCW webpage I post how the SO and county may be liable to a federal civil rights lawsuit if they do not follow said policy and apply the same GMC standard to ALL CCW applicants. That's in case someone in Monterey Co gets denied and wants to fight to get a CCW. :chris:

Here is the CCW policy currently posted on Sheriff Bernal's website (https://www.montereysheriff.org/CCW/) (emphasis added):
Quote:

A MESSAGE FROM MONTEREY COUNTY REGARDING CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMITS

The purpose of this message is to give individuals interested in obtaining a Carry Concealed Weapon Permit (CCW) an idea of the standards and process for successfully obtaining one from the Monterey County Sheriff’s Office.

Historically many people have applied for a CCW with little idea as to whether or not their request would be successful. Often the unknown element centers on the State of California’s requirement to show “good cause” in order to obtain a CCW. The standard of “good cause” varies widely from county to county. In my opinion, “personal protection” should suffice to establish the good cause standard.

However, with this standard comes a requirement that the background process be more thorough and rigorous than has been the case in the past. At some point during your application process, a background investigator will contact a sampling of your neighbors, family and co-workers to determine your suitability to carry a concealed weapon. We will advise the people we contact of the reason for the contact, and ask them if they would recommend you be issued a CCW permit.

While this may seem intrusive to some, I believe that with an expanded definition of “good cause” (that applies to virtually every lawful resident of the County) comes a higher level of due diligence on our part to ensure we are not issuing CCW permits to individuals who shouldn’t have one. Those individuals who have lived an upstanding life in every respect and enjoy a well-earned reputation among their neighbors, co-workers and friends should have little problem successfully getting through our process.

Please read through the additional requirements to obtain a CCW permit carefully before submitting your application. If you choose to continue the process I hope this message provides some clarity regarding your chances for successfully obtaining a CCW permit.
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paladin (Post 16276894)
If Bernal does NOT follow this same procedure with ALL CCW applicants (think political donors, "friends of the sheriff"/"posse" members, politicians, celebrities), he's open for a Guillory-type 14th A Equal Protection lawsuit, but for GMC rather than GC.

Hypothetically, let's say there's a world-famous film star (and director) who lives in (and was once the mayor of) Carmel-By-The-Sea, a city which, acc to CGF's 2013 survey, does not issue CCWs. We'll call him "Mr. E." Let's suppose Mr. E has a Monterey SO CCW. When it is/was time to renew, if the sheriff has the same policy for renewals that means his "background investigator" would have to go to Mr. E's neighbors (who, unlike his friends, may be hard-core antis), and "ask them if they would recommend [Mr. E] be issued a CCW permit." Not only would the same procedure have to be followed, but the same standard as to judging whether to issue or not be followed. IOW, let's say 1 of your neighbors says "Nyet!" when asked if you should get a CCW and because of that you are denied. If 1 of Mr. E's neighbors also said "No!" and yet was issued, that too is a 14th A Equal Protection violation.

UPDATE (2015 July 04): Acc to post #179, a "psychological assessment" is no longer required (even though their website still says it is). This is good news because that saves applicants $150.00 and the time, effort and inconvenience of driving to and from "Law Enforcement Psychological Services" in Los Gatos (even though they say below an applicant can use "any Psychologist licensed" in CA).

Quote:

Psychological Assessment: A Psychological Assessment will be administered by Law Enforcement Psychological Services. The applicant will be given appointment information after successfully completing the Personal Interview. Applicants are responsible for paying the $150.00 fee to Law Enforcement Psychological Services at the time of their appointment. Results of the assessment will be sent to the Monterey County Sheriff’s Office.
(emphasis added) From: https://www.montereysheriff.org/ccw/ccw-procedures/

Quote:

Applicants for a Carry Concealed Weapon (CCW) permit are welcome to be evaluated by any Psychologist licensed in the State of California. The Sheriff’s office currently uses Psychological Services Inc, based in Los Gatos, for its CCW psychological screening. This can also be utilized as an appeal to a submitted psychological examination for CCW.
(emphasis added) From: https://www.montereysheriff.org/ccw/ccw-psych/

Paladin 05-10-2015 8:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomasesmith3 (Post 16262281)
Any news about the new CCW policy? I'm starting paperwork soon...

Sheriff Miller's old CCW policy per the SO's website is quoted at:
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...php?p=13858276

Here is the CCW policy currently posted on Sheriff Bernal's website (https://www.montereysheriff.org/CCW/) (emphasis added):
Quote:

A MESSAGE FROM MONTEREY COUNTY REGARDING CONCEALED WEAPONS PERMITS

The purpose of this message is to give individuals interested in obtaining a Carry Concealed Weapon Permit (CCW) an idea of the standards and process for successfully obtaining one from the Monterey County Sheriff’s Office.

Historically many people have applied for a CCW with little idea as to whether or not their request would be successful. Often the unknown element centers on the State of California’s requirement to show “good cause” in order to obtain a CCW. The standard of “good cause” varies widely from county to county. In my opinion, “personal protection” should suffice to establish the good cause standard.

However, with this standard comes a requirement that the background process be more thorough and rigorous than has been the case in the past. At some point during your application process, a background investigator will contact a sampling of your neighbors, family and co-workers to determine your suitability to carry a concealed weapon. We will advise the people we contact of the reason for the contact, and ask them if they would recommend you be issued a CCW permit.

While this may seem intrusive to some, I believe that with an expanded definition of “good cause” (that applies to virtually every lawful resident of the County) comes a higher level of due diligence on our part to ensure we are not issuing CCW permits to individuals who shouldn’t have one. Those individuals who have lived an upstanding life in every respect and enjoy a well-earned reputation among their neighbors, co-workers and friends should have little problem successfully getting through our process.

Please read through the additional requirements to obtain a CCW permit carefully before submitting your application. If you choose to continue the process I hope this message provides some clarity regarding your chances for successfully obtaining a CCW permit.
Looks like the critical parts are the same. (I did the bolding and/or underlining.) So, they say SD = GC, but then push GMC through the roof and, it appears, make your RKBA subject to your neighbors', co-workers' and friends' ratification.... :facepalm: :mad:

If Bernal does NOT follow this same procedure with ALL CCW applicants (think political donors, "friends of the sheriff"/"posse" members, politicians, celebrities), he's open for a Guillory-type 14th A Equal Protection federal lawsuit, but for GMC rather than GC.

Hypothetically, let's say there's a world-famous film star (and director) who lives in (and was once the mayor of) Carmel-By-The-Sea, a city which, acc to CGF's 2013 survey, does not issue CCWs. We'll call him "Mr. E." Let's suppose Mr. E has a Monterey SO CCW. When it is/was time to renew, if the sheriff has the same policy for renewals that means his "background investigator" would have to go to Mr. E's neighbors (who, unlike his friends, may be hard-core antis), and "ask them if they would recommend [Mr. E] be issued a CCW permit." Not only would the same procedure have to be followed, but the same standard as to judging whether to issue or not be followed. IOW, let's say 1 of your neighbors says "Nyet!" when asked if you should get a CCW and because of that you are denied. If 1 of Mr. E's neighbors also said "No!" and yet was issued, that too is a 14th A Equal Protection violation.

ETA: Since its been 5 months since the Bernal has been sworn into office and the same policy statement is on the SO website, I'll update the OP. Since they say SD = GC (have gone "vSI"), I'm going to make it a "TIME TO APPLY!!!" with Alert symbol but with a caveat since they're pushing GMC to sainthood levels.... :mad:

Tripper 05-10-2015 9:51 AM

Renewals are a quick interview, don't go through all that stuff again

Tripper 05-10-2015 9:51 AM

SD is sufficient
Next appointments are out to July I think

Tripper 05-23-2015 8:39 AM

Monterey *** TIME TO APPLY!!! (w/caveat) ***
 
Just seen this
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05...dbbe5c5698.jpg

Earliest appointment is July I think
But I'd say overwhelm them with appointments and maybe help get some of the other stuff reconsidered

Paladin 05-23-2015 12:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripper (Post 16347190)
Just seen this
http://images.tapatalk-cdn.com/15/05...dbbe5c5698.jpg

Earliest appointment is July I think
But I'd say overwhelm them with appointments and maybe help get some of the other stuff reconsidered

I won't ask what made them decide to change their policy, I'm just glad they did. ;)

Tripper 05-23-2015 2:28 PM

I think folks should bring the app when they ask for appointment, hand it in and say the 90 starts now, then they will be pressed to do it within the livescan limit, which they can't with all the stuff they do

gofer 06-30-2015 10:26 AM

Renewals in Monterey seem to be delayed
 
My first LTC expires this week after two years.

I got the notice for my renewal, that had been mailed to the wrong address. I filled in the paperwork, got an appointment, and took it in early this month. I took the (re-)training, and got the paperwork in. It looks like they are backlogged, and don't know how long it might be until my information gets reviewed. FYI: Nothing has changed since last time. Once it gets reviewed, then it has to "go up the chain" for approval or dis-approval.

I assume next time I need to start the renewaql 90 days before expiration, so that there's more time.

Not much more I can do for now.

Brian1833 07-08-2015 7:57 AM

Wish i would have waited for Bernal. out 150 plus a trip to the VA(long as wait times)

Tripper 07-29-2015 8:05 AM

Monterey *** TIME TO APPLY!!! (w/caveat) ***
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripper (Post 16277416)
Renewals are a quick interview, don't go through all that stuff again


Well, now renewals require a fresh application, same as new, just no new livescan and they don't go visit neighbors again or anything. And Yes Psych is absolutely gone

Also, my understanding is that if one is denied you appeal via the undersheriff and every person I know of that has appealed has received their CCW (denial was overturned)

Chewy65 07-29-2015 3:59 PM

This boob's cute little move may be legal, but WTF! While recognizing that good cause equals self protection and avowing to do the Constitutional think, in the next breath the good sheriff says he is going to set higher GMC standards. Recognizing the proper standard for good cause shouldn't affect GMC. Then the good sheriff announces that if you apply we are going to tell everyone, including co-workers that may be very anti gun, that you are applying AND YOU MIGHT LOSE YOUR JOB. The mafia was more honorable than this county Chief LEO.

e90bmw 07-31-2015 2:55 PM

California has a definition of GMC and it does not involve calling neighbors.
I can't get a CCW in Alameda County, but having to ask your neighbors if you can exercise a basic right is just wrong.

What part of concealed have they forgotten.
You may as well wear it on your belt if everyone knows you have it..........

Brian1833 07-31-2015 3:27 PM

A friend of mine pulled out of the process once they said they will speak to the neighbors. Neighbors happen to be gangsters.. Friend told investigators you can talk to my other neighbors but not them. They told her no we will talk to everyone. Why would you want to tell a bunch of gangsters one of their neighbors will carry a gun all the time. It just lets them know that person has guns in their house for sure and makes it a burglary target now

Paladin 07-31-2015 5:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewy65 (Post 16689360)
This boob's cute little move may be legal, but WTF! While recognizing that good cause equals self protection and avowing to do the Constitutional think, in the next breath the good sheriff says he is going to set higher GMC standards. Recognizing the proper standard for good cause shouldn't affect GMC. Then the good sheriff announces that if you apply we are going to tell everyone, including co-workers that may be very anti gun, that you are applying AND YOU MIGHT LOSE YOUR JOB. The mafia was more honorable than this county Chief LEO.

Insulting a sheriff that is slowly going in the direction we want him to is not wise. :oji:

He accepts SD = GC.
He's gotten rid of the psych eval.
He doesn't ask your references/employer/neighbors when you renew. See the above and also: http://www.calccw.com/Forums/announc...y-no-pain.html

These are all "good things" that Sheriff Bernal's done w/o being forced to by the courts.

Hopefully, in time, he'll get more comfortable w/issuing CCWs and skip your employer and neighbors and just ask for 3 non-family, in county references.

Patience, Weedhopper.

Quote:

Originally Posted by e90bmw (Post 16700550)
California has a definition of GMC and it does not involve calling neighbors.

Really? What is it? Link?

I know about the CA AG's opinion letter from back in the 1970s, but that was in re. GC, not GMC.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brian1833 (Post 16700709)
A friend of mine pulled out of the process once they said they will speak to the neighbors. Neighbors happen to be gangsters.. Friend told investigators you can talk to my other neighbors but not them. They told her no we will talk to everyone. Why would you want to tell a bunch of gangsters one of their neighbors will carry a gun all the time. It just lets them know that person has guns in their house for sure and makes it a burglary target now

Probably better would be to tell the SO that they are gangmembers and ask the SO if when they talk to them to: (1) take all the names of whom they talk with and run them by their database, and (2) as them not to tell those neighbors why they're asking about your "friend": not tell them (and, ideally, not tell your other neighbors who may talk w/them) your "friend" is applying for a CCW.

Again: hopefully, after a couple of years experience (assuming we don't win SD = GC and "can own" = "can carry"/GMC via the federal courts), Sheriff Bernal will voluntarily drop some of these unwise policies.

Iguanadon 02-07-2016 6:44 AM

Three weeks ago I called for an appointment and got one in August, a six month wait. A conflict developed and I called to see if I could change it. I was told that they were now into November, a nine month wait!

Tripper 02-07-2016 7:49 AM

Monterey *** TIME TO APPLY!!! (w/caveat) ***
 
Monterey did remove the psych evaluation it was not really by choice, paladin if you have questions about that feel free to pm me
They are getting further out on appointments, I've been telling everyone to apply, and word is getting out, convincing not to do the neighbor thing is tough, trying to drop the 3 gun limit is tough, work in progress
There is only 3 investigators I think, DOJ is responding slower than before.
On the plus side, renewal is easy, my suggestion on that is copy your original, keep it handy to turn in again, changing only what is necessary to be accurate. It is the same app. But be aware, they are processing renewals as well as taking new apps, they are getting behind on that and there is a tendency to notify a person of their renewal too late, making your ccw actually expire before your renewal is approved, call them maybe 6 months out to see when you can make an appointment for renewal, have you qualification ready, quals are good for a year.
Oh, if you did some SSE that changed your caliber in DROS, get it back to the caliber it is suppose to be, or the gun will be denied, they are fine with off roster as long as the caliber is correct, ie qualified with the serial, model and caliber, then DROS shows as 9" barrel at .52 caliber.. the DROS caliber needs to match what is on the gun and what you qualified with
PM any questions you might have

anyracoon 03-15-2016 4:43 PM

Talked with one of the investigators for Monterey County Sheriff today and was told it now takes a least 3 months for the DOJ to respond back once fingerprints are taken.

anyracoon 03-31-2016 5:07 AM

Appears that Monterey County has added one more investigator for doing background checks on CCW applicants.

Iguanadon 04-21-2016 11:24 AM

My appointment just got moved up three months sooner.

carmelguy 06-11-2016 7:16 AM

It took almost 4 months from the 1st interview to the issuance of the CCW. Process was fairly simple.

02Caltaco 07-04-2016 7:19 PM

To those of you that successfully got your ccw. Without getting too personal, was your reason given, work related? Do you live in an area where your friendly with the niehbors?

I like the idea of ccw, although I don't have a dangerous job where a gun could possibly be needed, I do think that most of us, are potentially faced with the possibility of being in a situation where a firearm could save a life.

My biggest deterrent in this county , if it even got that far, is the talking with my niehbors. It seems rediculas to actually have that as a determining factor in the process. I live in a neighborhood where I do not choose to talk with or associate with certain niehbors. One being a ghetto loser, drug dealer, living at his senior mom's house, who's teenage kid is taking after him. Another niehbor being multiple families, living in a small house, almost guarantee they are not legal citizens.

Sure, there are a couple niehbors that I am friendly with. Even then, who.knows if they are against guns in general. No matter how much they like me or anyone else they might not like the thought of someone carrying. This is why I'm curious about the situation and process for some of you the carry in monterey county.

Tripper 07-05-2016 4:58 PM

Monterey *** TIME TO APPLY!!! (w/caveat) ***
 
Personal protection is sufficient for Monterey


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RPetty 07-06-2016 8:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripper (Post 18446173)
Personal protection is sufficient for Monterey


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^^^^
This....



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02Caltaco 07-06-2016 7:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPetty (Post 18449605)
^^^^
This....



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Good to know, now how about the niehbor issue. I imagine there are others with crappy niehbors. What was your experience.

Tripper 07-08-2016 10:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 02Caltaco (Post 18453570)
Good to know, now how about the niehbor issue. I imagine there are others with crappy niehbors. What was your experience.



Advise your Investigator of your concerns, no promise it will change anything though


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RPetty 07-10-2016 1:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 02Caltaco (Post 18453570)
Good to know, now how about the niehbor issue. I imagine there are others with crappy niehbors. What was your experience.



I believe they stopped that too...


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Tripper 07-10-2016 6:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by RPetty (Post 18475063)
I believe they stopped that too...


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Not that I've heard, I can inquire about it


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RPetty 07-10-2016 6:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripper (Post 18476544)
Not that I've heard, I can inquire about it


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My nephew. Think was telling me...


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Tripper 07-12-2016 5:45 AM

CCW background checks no longer have home visit or neighborhood checks, appointments are out to about October/November right now


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02Caltaco 07-13-2016 6:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripper (Post 18484507)
CCW background checks no longer have home visit or neighborhood checks, appointments are out to about October/November right now


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How did you find that out? I might have to try.

Tripper 07-14-2016 8:51 AM

Called


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02Caltaco 07-18-2016 7:24 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tripper (Post 18446173)
Personal protection is sufficient for Monterey


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I downloaded the aplication and read through it.

After rrading the part regarding reason for ccw permit, I dont think stating just "Personal protection" as the reason would be enough.

"If the CCW license is desired for self-protection, the protection of others, or for the protection of large sums of money or
valuable property, you are required to explain and provide good cause for issuance of the license. For example, has your life
or property been threatened or jeopardized? Explain incidents and include dates, times, locations, and names of police
agencies to which these incidents were reported.

Details of Reason for Applicant Desiring a CCW license. Use additional pages if necessary."

Tripper 07-18-2016 7:44 PM

Just put Personal Protection, really, they still accept that

RamonSJC 07-18-2016 7:52 PM

Can I just put Salinas, Towt and Cortez?

Tripper 07-18-2016 9:27 PM

That might work


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sbcfd 12-07-2016 2:25 PM

So I live in Santa Cruz county but work 72 plus hours a week in Monterey county. If I read the Monterey application process correctly I can apply in Monterey county. Is this correct? Or am I interpreting it incorrectly?

Tripper 12-07-2016 9:00 PM

That should work, doesn't hurt to get the process started


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Iguanadon 12-08-2016 11:56 AM

See Penal Code Section 26150. If your principle place of business is within the county and the applicant spends a substantial amount of time in the business location, the Sheriff may issue.

But I would ask before paying the $138 non-refundable fee.

Paladin 12-08-2016 5:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sbcfd (Post 19287021)
So I live in Santa Cruz county but work 72 plus hours a week in Monterey county. If I read the Monterey application process correctly I can apply in Monterey county. Is this correct? Or am I interpreting it incorrectly?

"Normal" CA CCWs are based upon your primary residence and you'll be required to provide evidence of such (mortgage/rental lease contract; driver's license address; a few months utility bills in your name w/that address, etc). If you are basing it off of your business/employment location, then that's a 90-day Employment CCW. Yes, you read that right: you go thru all that expense and hassle for a CCW that is good for only 90 days....

Quote:

Originally Posted by Iguanadon (Post 19292614)
See Penal Code Section 26150. If your principle place of business is within the county and the applicant spends a substantial amount of time in the business location, the Sheriff may issue.

But I would ask before paying the $138 non-refundable fee.

Is that one of those 90-day "Employment" CCWs? If so, the fee is $118, not $138: https://www.montereysheriff.org/ccw/ccw-fee-schedule/

Since it is an employment based CCW, the sheriff may restrict it to coming and going from work and while on the job.

But, if sbcfd is cool with that, far be it for me to disagree....

Iguanadon 01-06-2017 3:54 PM

New Online CCW Application
 
The Sheriff’s office now has an online process for initial and renewal applicants, and for a modification to your permit. If you go through the web site and click own the "CCW Application Form" link it takes you to the URL below. The new online system requires that you submit your renewal application online, within 30 days of the permit expiration date. If you miss the deadline the online system will not let you apply as a renewal and will charge you the fees associated with a new application.

https://montereyso.permitium.com/ccw/start


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