Ccw with "pre ban" mags
I am curious about this topic. Figuratively if I was in possession of glock 19 15 round magazines before 2000 could you legally use them in your ccw? If this is legal would and you used your weapon in self defense would the DA make a field day out of this? Just curious. Thanks for the info guys!
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Legal is legal. Non issue like useing hollow points instead of FMJ.
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If a DA wants to bust you, he will bust regardless. But as penal codes are concerned, there's nothing restricting you for using "pre ban" mags. But I would suggest asking your IA just to have their blessings.
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Now, if you legally posssessed the mags prior to 2000, and used them in your CCW weapon, you would not be in violation of the law. If you then used your weapon in self defense, presuming "legal" ammunition, you have done nothing for which the DA can bust you. (P.C. 32310). Your biggest initial problem may be with responding law enforcement. They may see the mag and take you in for further discussions. You may also be asked to show that you owned the weapon prior to Jan 1, 2000. If you didn't (and the OAG Registry records you didn't) your day will worsen. All that aside, if you empty your mag into and around the perp, I would expect you to be sued by the survivors, indicted by the DA for reckless endangerment and have your IA pull your LTC due to lack of gun control. Mitigate the issue--carry 10. Cheers, JR |
Surely your joking right ? " Black Talon Ammo" from the 90's is somehow illegal ?
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Check with IA.
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Black Talons were never outlawed, just "L.E. Only". Current Win Ranger SXT is a close second in design. Cheers. JR |
Legal yes, however I forsee the mags creating more problems with any LE contact.
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Fail :facepalm: Our legal system is supposed to be assumed innocent until proven otherwise. You do not have to (and should not even attempt to) prove that you owned the magazine prior to 2000. It is on them to prove you didn't. Get a lawyer & shut up. |
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Carry what you can, shoot only ten, unless you need to save your life with the extras. Back to the DVR for you. I am sure that is what you meant. |
Fud. I carry 17 round mags because it is legal.
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Agree ... In My G 19 I have and use Glock 17 mags that I bought back in 1998 ... Completely legal Period ! and yes I have A Sac County CCW ....:43: |
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Bring your A game. |
thanks for all the info guys! I was actually given the magazine in 1996 from my grandfather but it sounds like their may be some issues depending on who is interpreting the issue at hand. Ill stick with x2 10 round magazines instead :) and yes my 9'ers are going to the SB!
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If you legally own the magazines you should use them. I do.
-Gene |
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I own preban mags from back in 98'. Personally I carry my 13 rd mags because I figure, if in the slim chance I ever have to use my gun in self defense. I'd rather have too many rounds, than not enough. It's legal and if they want to go after me, than so be it. I'll be alive.
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I run pre-ban "high" caps in my all my CCW guns. They are legal to use, so what why sweat it? Supertac hit it pretty much on the head. If you end up popping someone with your gun, the capacity of your magazines is going to be the least of your issues.
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The only thing I am worried about is that the body of the magazine and the follower have been replaced ( floorplate and spring still original ) and to LEO it "looks" like a gen4 glock 19 magazine. But like many have stated no one has ever said they wished they had less rounds in a gun fight. If the weapon comes out the magazine probably wont be my top priority .
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I feel it's the day to day LEO contact that could be the bad part, not the defensive shooting with it. In a defensive situation, like others have said, that mag is going to be the least of your worries. Now a regular LEO contact could become an issue quick, it just takes the wrong cop and you have yourself in a legal situation. I feel like that legal situation could lead to your IA revoking your permit (temporarily or permanently) and maybe even confiscating your firearm (temporarily). Yes the extra 5 rounds would be really nice peace of mind, but not losing your permit is also equally important. I'd hate to be the one to test the situation, since it's uncharted territory it's hard to say what would happen.
Technically it's legal as its been pointed out, there's nothing saying you can't, but your definitely risking a possible situation. Whether you want to risk that as a trade off for possibly saving your life is your choice. I'm not the kind of guy to blaze trails so I wouldn't. I like to stay under the radar, my firearm and my permit is far too important to me to risk it. To me being able to carry only 10 rounds is way better than going back to being able to carry 0. |
http://wiki.calgunsfoundation.org/La...e_restrictions
9. If I have a large-capacity magazine, do I need to get rid of it? No. Continued possession of large-capacity magazines (able to accept more than 10 rounds) that you owned in California before January 1, 2000, is not prohibited. However as of January 1, 2000, it is illegal to buy, manufacture, import, keep for sale, expose for sale, give or lend any large-capacity magazine in California except by law enforcement agencies, California peace officers, or licensed dealers. (PC Section 12020 (b)(19-29)) |
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I understand that it is not illegal to purchase/buy. The seller is the person breaking the law, no? So, if there is a transaction between you and me, you the seller, me the purchaser, you the seller is breaking the law, not me the purchaser. |
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I think age may become a factor in the event they decide to prosecute or you have a LEO encounter. If you say that you bought them back in 99' before the ban and your currently 22 years old. Might be a little difficult to say under Oath or for them to believe you that you road your bicycle to a local gun store and bought some mags with your lunch money. Again, they'll have to prove it and as in all laws it's gauged on the Reasonable Person doctrine. Would a reasonable person believe that to be true? |
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If you get a parts kit after 2000, and re-assemble it inside CA as a 11+ magazine, that part is a crime. Using it thereafter is not, just as using a legally obtained 11+ mag is legal (e.g. retired LEO or had in state prior to 2000). |
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Thanks again |
So, is it against the law for a individual to purchase a complete magazine?
Yes or No? I read this whole article and saw nowhere where it is? |
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So, the short answer is, "yes". |
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And no criminal suspect/defendant should ever say anything about how old a magazine is or where it came from other than "I don't want to answer questions and I want to talk to my lawyer." |
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Suppose your cousin Cletus drops an axe on one of your 30-round AR mags, puncturing the body and preventing the follower from rising more than half way. Certainly, you can pull the baseplate, spring and follower off the damaged body, and install those in a new body. Later on, the baseplate drops off and the spring escapes with it into the snow; certainly you can replace those pieces, leaving just the follower from the original mag. Later, you get a bad reload that does a case rupture down through the mag - follower gets trashed. You can replace the follower. Now there are no original parts. All legal. And yet, it appears to be wrong to run over an existing legal mag, completely destroying it, and then assemble a kit into a complete mag. Such clarity of thought went into the law! |
I think a good rule of thumb is:
if you legally own X number of 10+ rounds mag before 2000, then you can do whatever you want to do with them as long as in the end, you dont end up with more mags then what you started with. |
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And within the last 3 years. It is my understanding that there is a 3 year statute of limitations on this confounded ignorant law. Sooo... it may be possible for a 22 year old to currently be "legal" with a standard capacity magazine. |
In 2005, the CA AG provided the informal guidance in the letter located here:
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ...2005-11-10.pdf From this, all magazine parts (including bodies) can be replaced. Note the cautions in some of the responses. Local DAs have power to interpret and prosecute. It would be prudent to keep records of changes. You don't have to prove your innocence, and I agree with not talking freely to the police, as you might inadvertently admit to a crime. But this letter rides in my range bag along with other documentation. While it's not something I would immediately offer in a discussion with LEOs, it is somewhat comforting to know I have something with me which may help mitigate the issue, if needed. NOTE: THIS IS NOT A "GET OUT OF JAIL FREE CARD". California has changed Attorney Generals since the issuance of this letter (the AG in place in 2005 (Lockyer) is now the State Treasurer, and the AG after him (Brown) is now the Governor), and the new AG (Harris) does not appear to have specifically endorsed (or refuted) the 2005 letter. Cheers, JR |
Curious if anyone has any first hand experience with any LEOs while CCWing a 10+ round magazine. Some LEOs, upon being notified that you are indeed legally conceal carrying, may want to take temporary possession of the firearm and unload it for officer safety, etc. At that time they would undoubtedly realize that you are in possession of a 10+ round magazine. I completely understand that if you are in legal possession of the said 10+ round magazine, it is perfectly legal. Just wondering if any LEOs have tried questioning anyone about it or anything of the sort and if they did, what did you tell them? Would you simply just tell them to talk to your lawyer and that would be the end of it?
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Just a rumor that someone was arrested a few months ago in San Diego for posession of a large cap mag. This info came from my FFL dealer who is a reliable source. There may not be a law about posession. Not all of the details here. If a magazine was produced after a ban and was never manufactured before a ban of sale, prosecutors might try to show purchase of the mag. We are trying to get more info on how things play out. Call ca doj. I am not an attorney but if someone is convicted I am concerned that it could become common law after appeals process.
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You don't even know if someone was arrested and you're worried about a conviction? ("Common Law" or "case law"? -- There is a difference). BTW: CA DOJ doesn't make local prosecution decisions--the (city/county) DA does. It would be helpful if you could get back in touch with your reliable source dealer and obtain some facts. Best, JR |
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