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-   -   Can I legally buy a shotgun in Florida if I'm a California resident? (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1424510)

ysr_racer 02-12-2018 9:17 PM

Can I legally buy a shotgun in Florida if I'm a California resident?
 
I was in Florida for a few days, and saw a shotgun I wanted to buy. Can I legally just buy it, or does it have to go thru a CA FFL?

cyclopes85 02-12-2018 9:20 PM

Why not?

Sent from my SM-G955U using Tapatalk

P5Ret 02-12-2018 9:29 PM

You can buy it you just can't take delivery of it in Florida. Federal law requires all laws of the buyer's state to be followed, so for us in Ca that means ship to Ca FFL 10 day wait dealer transfer fee and all the rest.

Librarian 02-12-2018 10:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by P5Ret (Post 21277088)
You can buy it you just can't take delivery of it in Florida. Federal law requires all laws of the buyer's state to be followed, so for us in Ca that means ship to Ca FFL 10 day wait dealer transfer fee and all the rest.

Right.

If you lived in Real America, and your state of residence did not require using your-state-licensed FFLs, you could do it.

California, however, no.

ysr_racer 02-13-2018 4:56 AM

Thanks guys

bruss01 02-13-2018 7:45 AM

"I've got a mansion, forget the price,
Ain't never been there, they tell me it's nice..."

You can buy it (exchange money for right of ownership) anywhere.

You can only acquire it (take physical possession) through an FFL in your state of residence if your state requires that, and CA certainly does.

Chewy65 02-13-2018 2:52 PM

YSR, Just a thoughtk but look into taking possession in Florida but having it first imported into CA by having the FL seller send it to your CA FFL for DROS and delivery to you in CA. If that can't be done, give the dealer a hefty deposit (the sales price) and borrow it from the dealer until you are ready to return to CA. Then buy it and have the dealer send it to your CA FFL for DROS and delivery.

P5Ret 02-13-2018 3:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewy65 (Post 21279846)
YSR, Just a thoughtk but look into taking possession in Florida but having it first imported into CA by having the FL seller send it to your CA FFL for DROS and delivery to you in CA. If that can't be done, give the dealer a hefty deposit (the sales price) and borrow it from the dealer until you are ready to return to CA. Then buy it and have the dealer send it to your CA FFL for DROS and delivery.

I can't imagine the issues the FFL would face if a firearm was logged into his bound book, but not on the premise and no 4473 to document a sale existed. Whole lot of risk involved in that idea.

Chewy65 02-13-2018 6:02 PM

What about completing the sale and doing the 4473, and later having the gun shipped to the CA FFL before returning to the state?

P5Ret 02-13-2018 8:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewy65 (Post 21280623)
What about completing the sale and doing the 4473, and later having the gun shipped to the CA FFL before returning to the state?

So what part of him taking possession in Florida violates federal law for the FFL dealer are you not understanding? Remember this is how to do it legally and properly, not what can I get away with.

Chewy65 02-14-2018 12:37 AM

Please enlighten me as to what "Federal" law is violated by delivery of a long gun to the CA resident in FL?

Michael777 02-14-2018 12:49 AM

Itís Florida man. Do wtf you want

Librarian 02-14-2018 1:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Chewy65 (Post 21281939)
Please enlighten me as to what "Federal" law is violated by delivery of a long gun to the CA resident in FL?

18 USC 922 (b)(3)
Quote:

(b) It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver—
(1) ...;
(2) ...;
(3) any firearm to any person

who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe

does not reside in ... the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located,

except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States), and (B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
Not possible for a CA resident to "fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States" unless he/she uses a CA-licensed FFL.

18 USC 922 (a)(5) covers non-dealers
Quote:

(a) It shall be unlawful—
...
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person ... who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in ... the State in which the transferor resides;
ETA - I wrote this sticky - http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/s...d.php?t=503873 - in 2011. Catch up, please.

Librarian 02-14-2018 1:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael777 (Post 21281953)
Itís Florida man. Do wtf you want

Only if you like the risk of Federal prison for 5 years, or $10K fine, or both, as well as permanent loss of gun rights.

Chewy65 02-14-2018 8:49 AM

Thanks, Librarian. These were sporting guns (specifically skeet guns) that the FL dealer would loan/rent to vetted prospective purchasers for as long as a month.

Quote:

this paragraph . . .(B) shall not apply to the loan or rental of a firearm to any person for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes;
Not that I look at the statute, I agree that the FL FFL could not sell and deliver to one who is known or the dealer has reasonable cause to know they are not a resident of FL. I may have been thinking about the person with another home in FL who that dealer would not reasonably believe to be a resident of another state, were they to have a FL DL. However, they may loan/rent it and upon conclusion of the loan/rental then sell it as long as it is then shipped by that dealer to the CA FLL for DROS and delivery.

Revhendo 02-25-2018 11:02 AM

So, if you're out of state, decide to go skeet shooting with friends and find a shotgun you like, you can't purchase it, compete with it, then send it to your FFL? I'm assuming the same applies to picking up, say a levergun, to go hunting?

Quiet 02-25-2018 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revhendo (Post 21328894)
So, if you're out of state, decide to go skeet shooting with friends and find a shotgun you like, you can't purchase it, compete with it, then send it to your FFL? I'm assuming the same applies to picking up, say a levergun, to go hunting?

Under Federal laws... [18 USC 922(a)(3)&(5)]

You (CA resident) can purchase it, but the seller will need to ship it to a CA FFL dealer.

However, someone can loan/rent you a firearm for temporary sporting purpose use in that State.
After the loan/rent, you could then buy it and the seller would then ship it to a CA FFL dealer.

You (CA resident) can't take possession of it while out-of-state, unless it's due to a bequeath [18 USC 922(a)(5)(A)] or it's due to a loan/rental for temporary sporting use [18 USC 922(a)(5)(B)].

Revhendo 02-25-2018 1:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Quiet (Post 21329194)
Under Federal laws... [18 USC 922(a)(3)&(5)]

You (CA resident) can purchase it, but the seller will need to ship it to a CA FFL dealer.

However, someone can loan/rent you a firearm for temporary sporting purpose use in that State.
After the loan/rent, you could then buy it and the seller would then ship it to a CA FFL dealer.

You (CA resident) can't take possession of it while out-of-state, unless it's due to a bequeath [18 USC 922(a)(5)(A)] or it's due to a loan/rental for temporary sporting use [18 USC 922(a)(5)(B)].

With the complete understanding that I am not trying to get around anything, and maybe I've been beat up by confusing California laws too much, but,
My son in law could buy a Winchester 94 in New Mexico, loan it to me to go hunting and then sell it to me to send to an FFL and we're all cool? Technically that is what I'm getting out of this, but I thought that seemed like a bit of a straw purchase.

And yes, I've been reading stickies and searches till my eyes bleed and think I've over done it.

Librarian 02-25-2018 1:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Revhendo (Post 21329539)
My son in law could buy a Winchester 94 in New Mexico,

loan it to me to go hunting

and then sell it to me to send to an FFL and we're all cool?

Technically that is what I'm getting out of this, but I thought that seemed like a bit of a straw purchase.

Yes.

He could bring it here, lend it to you to hunt, and both go to a CA FFL,
or
you could go to NM, hunt with it, and then send it to a CA FFL.

In both cases, talk to the CA FFL first, to discover whether they understand the law and whether they will accept a 'walk-in' in the first case, or they want the gun shipped from another (NM) FFL in the second case.

Revhendo 02-25-2018 1:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Librarian (Post 21329571)
Yes.

He could bring it here, lend it to you to hunt, and both go to a CA FFL,
or
you could go to NM, hunt with it, and then send it to a CA FFL.

In both cases, talk to the CA FFL first, to discover whether they understand the law and whether they will accept a 'walk-in' in the first case, or they want the gun shipped from another (NM) FFL in the second case.

Thank you.

Flying Sig 02-28-2018 8:57 PM

Just buy it, bring it home and STFU

OlderThanDirt 02-28-2018 9:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Flying Sig (Post 21344969)
Just buy it, bring it home and STFU

Quote:

Originally Posted by Librarian (Post 21281976)
Only if you like the risk of Federal prison for 5 years, or $10K fine, or both, as well as permanent loss of gun rights.

Because we know the BATFE could never trace the firearm...;)


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