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-   -   Advantages of Registration???? For Citizens? Or our State Leaders? (http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=1364807)

meno377 08-09-2017 10:58 AM

Advantages of Registration???? For Citizens? Or our State Leaders?
 
Would someone like to explain in explicit details the advantage of registering? I keep reading the arguments for and against and I have my own opinion on the matter, but I have not read once any specific reason how registering would give us an advantage towards abolishing these ridiculous laws.

The only advantage at the moment for registering is to use your RAW the same way you purchased it. Other than that, I see no advantage towards the fight against our state leaders regarding the current laws in place. I have heard several times that registering is the challenge. Okay so can someone explain what the challenge is? Common use is not exclusive to registering. I don’t buy that argument. The DOJ has the numbers based on the DROS so registering doesn’t show any new numbers that an original DROS wouldn’t regarding long gun ownership.

There are some who are convinced that registering puts a burden on the DOJ. Whether it does or not, shouldn’t motivate anyone to cut their nose to spite their face IMO. Again the only reason I can see registration being an advantage is to allow you to use the rifle as configured when purchased. Other than that, I see no clear advantage towards registration.

Regarding De-registering: There is one user here who explained how difficult it was to de-register one of his rifles. It became so difficult he gave up on one of them. I have not heard yet from anyone saying they went through the de-registration process without problems.

There is the argument to hedge. The disadvantage to this IMO is registering your name with the DOJ regardless of how many rifles you choose to register vs featureless, new maglocks, disassembly etc.

I welcome a detailed explanation other than what I already mentioned on how registering will support our fight against future bans, and the possibility of abolishing these ridiculous laws.

UPDATED:

What I gather so far. No need to compare all the available options with not registering at the moment. Just the comparison between registering and not registering. This list may be updated.

Facts with Registering:

1) Registering enters your name and address into a separate database.
2) Registering puts a guaranteed lifetime limit on your rifle if you don’t decide to de-register anytime in the future.
3) Registering doesn’t allow you to pass down your rifle to future generations if you don’t decide to de-register anytime in the future.
4) If you have more than one rifle, registering one rifle gives you opportunity cost, (gives you one more option compared to not registering any rifles).
5) Registering doesn’t allow you to remove the bullet button in exchange for a regular magazine release as of this post dated: 8/17/2017. Pending litigation.
6) Registering allows you to use your rifle unaltered from the way you purchased it before 2017.
7) A RAW has transport and storage restrictions.
8) You agree to use your RAW with the bullet button as of this post by registering. Pending litigation.



Facts with not Registering:

1) Choices you have:
1. You must remove all evil features
2. Permanently install a magazine that requires you to open the action in order to remove it
3. Disassemble your rifle so it’s not functional
4. Convert to manual operation
5. Convert to rimfire
6. Store out of state.

2) Your name and address isn’t entered into a separate database with your consent.
3) Your aren’t knowingly supporting the registration process with your wallet.
4) You are not sending a message that tells DOJ that you agree using your rifle with a bullet button.
5) You will lose the opportunity to register after the period is up under this window.
6) You will never be able to own a non-featureless rifle with a bullet button if you do not register with the exception of a new maglock.

Theories:

1) There is no proof that registration challenges the state. With all the ridiculous laws that have passed it’s obvious the state’s agenda is to disarm all its citizens. The state leaders have grown up thinking they can make a difference by disarming law abiding citizens to save lives. ‘One child saved’ is the brand name.

2) By registering, you are telling the state that you are satisfied using the bullet button and whether or not pending litigation changes that, you agree to their terms.

3) By not registering, you are not giving consent for DOJ to know you have an Assault Weapon. They have no idea whether you modified it, stored it out of state or disassembled it. In addition you have the freedom to store it at a different address. The argument that it’s registered already doesn’t have veracity as it’s not giving them consent to their terms regarding the assault weapons registry.

4) By hedging your bets as some claim, it doesn’t go without the likelihood of consequences. 1. Agreeing to their terms regarding the bullet button. 2. Agreeing to allowing them to enter your name and address in a separate registry. Agreeing to limiting the lifeline of that rifle.

5) DOJ will claim victory either way. If the numbers are big, they are successful, but need to do more. If the numbers are low, they will claim an all out ban is the best solution. Either way an all out ban is more likely coming regardless whether you register or not. The thought of an all out ban without opening a window to register is absurd and misleading. If it were to come true, then registered rifles are affected also. Does anyone believe that they would create a separate class of citizens who registered before that would be allowed to keep their rifles vs people who didn’t register. That is absolutely ridiculous.


More info may be added.

teflondog 08-09-2017 11:08 AM

If I acquired my rifles prior to 2014, I would go the featureless route. If I acquired them after, I would probably go the registration route since they're already registered anyway and I'd like to keep my features.

porcupineballs 08-09-2017 11:52 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by teflondog (Post 20485169)
If I acquired my rifles prior to 2014, I would go the featureless route. If I acquired them after, I would probably go the registration route since they're already registered anyway and I'd like to keep my features.

This is my sentiment as well, but you also have to factor in all the harsher rules with transporting and storing a RAW once its registered.

cdtx2001 08-09-2017 12:01 PM

There is no advantage. Once you register your "assault weapon", you cease to own it and are merely borrowing it from the state.

kustomkat1950 08-09-2017 12:05 PM

Being a good subject?

Sorry, I am a citizen (who happens to be stuck in KA)

naeco81 08-09-2017 12:05 PM

Other than what's already listed, advantage depends on the outcome of CRPA lawsuit against latest regulation. If it prevails, as it should since the regulations were only supposed to govern the process & fees of registration - not create new law - then registering would mean standard mag release like all other RAWs.

mschn99 08-09-2017 12:15 PM

For me, registration is not an option. I have 2 kids that love to shoot. Registration would have me violating the law of they touched the firearm.

billvau 08-09-2017 12:19 PM

Just wait until close to the June 30, 2018 deadline. Much can change between now and then.

lost.in.cali. 08-09-2017 12:23 PM

ok..I'll say it... what rifle?

unusedusername 08-09-2017 12:26 PM

If it's an AR, then the lower is cheap.

Pre 2014 lowers are not in the DOJ database. I feel no need to tell them about what they don't know. Those would go featureless if I had any.

Post-2014 lowers are in the DOJ database by make and model. Those can be registered without losing anything. If we win the upcoming lawsuit over bullet buttons (in ~5 years when the appeals are over) then maybe they can become real fully equipped rifles.

If you want a post-2017 rifle then buying another lower is like $50+DROS and some time to transfer the stock/grip/and LPK.

desert dog 08-09-2017 12:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by billvau (Post 20485536)
Just wait until close to the June 30, 2018 deadline. Much can change between now and then.

Yep, wait & see.

As of right now, there are FAR, FAR more disadvantages to registering. The only advantage to registering at this point, is that you will have a rifle in your safe that is aesthetically more pleasing to look at.

There is a small chance the current state of things could change. So it would be unwise to dump $$$$ into going featureless with your rifles right now if you really don't want to go featureless.

BluNorthern 08-09-2017 12:33 PM

Not getting called names by the pro registration fanbois here?

MrFancyPants 08-09-2017 12:52 PM

In my humble opinion, registering your rifles as "assault weapons" is akin to our revolutionary forefathers throwing up their hands and telling King George "OK we'll pay your taxes, just let us know when you want more." The "good fight" has left this state, if it was ever here to begin with. It's just a vastly different political and moral landscape than most of the rest of the country, no two ways about it.

Sent from my SM-G935P using Tapatalk

Jedediah Munroe 08-09-2017 1:00 PM

Other potential benefits I suppose there is small risk of future outright ban without option of registering

Potential to diffuse/avoid drama if LE contact and you have documentation to support you gun is legal

I have one other potential benefit which I will expound upon after mine is approved (opsec)

meno377 08-09-2017 1:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naeco81 (Post 20485452)
Other than what's already listed, advantage depends on the outcome of CRPA lawsuit against latest regulation. If it prevails, as it should since the regulations were only supposed to govern the process & fees of registration - not create new law - then registering would mean standard mag release like all other RAWs.

Good point, but it doesn't address the big picture. It bothers me that some would register knowing that they have to sacrifice their privacy for the advantage of using a regular magazine release and this is not guaranteed.

Featureless solves the same issue without registering at the cost of a non featured grip, flash hider and a collapsible stock. New maglocks solve the issue at the expense of a fixed magazine. I really don't understand anyone who volunteers to register at the expense of DOJ knowing your business.

mshill 08-09-2017 1:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jedediah Munroe (Post 20485714)
I have one other potential benefit which I will expound upon after mine is approved (opsec)

No advantage for pre-2014 lowers or rifles. As for post-2014 lowers and rifles its a mixed bag...

Post-2014 acquired lowers/rifles there is really no downside to registering since they are already registered via DROS. I have two rifles that were acquired post-2014 specifically to register, one of which also falls into the potential benefit category (opsec) mentioned above.

The other is an IWI Tavor SAR, with a very detestable bullet button. There is no way I will register the Tavor unless the bullet button can come off (not likely) so it may remain featureless while it is in CA. The Tavor also suffers from the 30" overall length and pinned/welded muzzle extension issue. If it wasn't such a fun gun to shoot (especially in free states) I would say it wasn't worth the hassle it is becoming.

Sousuke 08-09-2017 1:41 PM

If you register, you may also be able to take advantage of workarounds to some of the more egregious regs.

meno377 08-09-2017 1:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sousuke (Post 20485898)
If you register, you may also be able to take advantage of workarounds to some of the more egregious regs.

There are no guarantees at this moment.

dreyna14 08-09-2017 1:53 PM

It was previously assumed that we would be able to put on a standard mag release once it was registered but the DOJ draft regs released shot that down. I will be going featureless on all of mine.

IrishJoe3 08-09-2017 2:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meno377 (Post 20485125)
Would someone like to explain in explicit details the advantage of registering? I keep reading the arguments for and against and I have my own opinion on the matter, but I have not read once any specific reason how registering would give us an advantage towards abolishing these ridiculous laws.

To each their own. Personally, its foolish to put all your eggs in one basket (ie featureless), especially since we all know those will be on the chopping block next, and we have no idea how thorough that law will be. IMO by going featureless, you're painting yourself into an ever shrinking corner.

When all this garbage started coming down the pike, I stocked up on lowers. Some I'll register. Some I'll go featureless. I has a feeling that the Cal DOJ threw everything at the wall (regarding regulations) to see how much they can make stick but knowing that some crap will fall. We have lawsuits in the works, and there will be case law established. Lets say a lawsuit forces the DOJ to change the current regulations that prohibit removal of the bullet button. If the registration window has already passed and all your guns are featureless, you missed that opportunity.

And the argument "but the guvment will know you have gunz". Good. I have guns. I have a lot of guns. They already know that. I want them to know that. Then again, I also have an NRA sticker on my truck for all to see unlike a lot of gun owners who are terrified at the thought of that.

naeco81 08-09-2017 2:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meno377 (Post 20485827)
Good point, but it doesn't address the big picture. It bothers me that some would register knowing that they have to sacrifice their privacy for the advantage of using a regular magazine release and this is not guaranteed.

Featureless solves the same issue without registering at the cost of a non featured grip, flash hider and a collapsible stock. New maglocks solve the issue at the expense of a fixed magazine. I really don't understand anyone who volunteers to register at the expense of DOJ knowing your business.

It's a fair argument and I agree principally I'd prefer more privacy, but I think it all depends on how much you weigh the marginal utility of privacy non-registration affords you. If you believe it affords greater protection, your position makes perfect sense. I think in practice our privacy has already been diluted by other measures and I value personally benefiting from the lawsuit victory. It's also not a choice of register or featureless for me. I'll take (d) all of the above please.

Whiskey_Tango 08-09-2017 2:43 PM

You get to keep your bullet button! What's not to like?

BBRAW is a joke IMHO.

nedro 08-09-2017 2:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mschn99 (Post 20485515)
For me, registration is not an option. I have 2 kids that love to shoot. Registration would have me violating the law of they touched the firearm.

What happens if they get caught touching an illegal RAW in your presence? :facepalm:

E92335i 08-09-2017 2:56 PM

jail time lol

SPUTTER 08-09-2017 3:37 PM

No real advantages at all. I considered it but after looking at the application process, its a very very bad idea.

AGGRO 08-09-2017 3:43 PM

Why would you register even one? If you register one then the peril is there for the others you own.

I'm the guy that got suckered into RAW the first time around and my gun wasn't even on the list of named rifles. They still allowed me to register it. I'm the guy that took 2 years to get it de-listed and the only reason they finally did was it came after this last BS ban deadline.

There is absolutely NO reason to register. This is round three. Just don't do it. They absolutely want to build their database and we all know the only reason for it in the first place is a possible confiscation some day.

Do whatever you gotta do to stay off a registration.

In order I recommend:

1. Fixed mag
2. Featureless
3. Hide em/take apart/remove from the State and wait for sane times again. I'll hunt with my bolt guns

There is no register option on my list.

rm1911 08-09-2017 3:57 PM

I'm guessing a potential disadvantage is that it means you won't be able to put a tattoo on your forearm.

GM4spd 08-09-2017 4:05 PM

Geez with all these good reasons not to register,I wonder why it's so hard to get
into the website? I mean with all these people not registering it should be
a real simple process to get registered.:confused:

Guns and guitars 08-09-2017 4:07 PM

So far the ONLY good reason to register is the Calguns members will accept you.

curtisfong 08-09-2017 4:08 PM

Not again. Please. There is zero reason to re-beat this re-dead horse yet again. I really don't understand what you're thinking, OP, other than you are actually looking to start yet another flame war.

Inexcusable behavior, IMO.

AGGRO 08-09-2017 4:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rm1911 (Post 20486534)
I'm guessing a potential disadvantage is that it means you won't be able to put a tattoo on your forearm.

Tattoo of featureless ...ewwww

meno377 08-09-2017 4:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by curtisfong (Post 20486583)
Not again. Please. There is zero reason to re-beat this re-dead horse yet again. I really don't understand what you're thinking, OP, other than you are actually looking to start yet another flame war.

Inexcusable behavior, IMO.

Curtisfong. I have the right to express my opinion about this just as you do. If you don't agree that's fine. If you have something to contribute why we SHOULD register, I am all ears, but I haven't heard one argument for registration YET that convinces me. I mentioned all the reasons in my OP. If I have missed something, please let me know.

Mayor McRifle 08-09-2017 4:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meno377 (Post 20485125)
I have not read once any specific reason how registering would give us an advantage towards abolishing these ridiculous laws.

In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Supreme Court specifically held that the ruling in United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174, does not limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes.

Every rifle voluntarily converted to a California Compliant rifle is one less "assault weapon" in "common use." When this current ban finally makes its way to the Supreme Court, we will need enough California-defined "assault weapons" still in "common use" within the state to justify the Supreme Court striking down the ban. By voluntarily removing "assault weapons" from "common use," we are ultimately helping the State of California's ban withstand a constitutional challenge. The State knows this, of course, which is why the DOJ's registration regulations specifically prohibit the registering of featureless rifles as "assault weapons." For the State of California's ban to pass constitutional muster, the less registered "assault weapons" the better.

meno377 08-09-2017 4:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mayor McRifle (Post 20486790)
In District of Columbia v. Heller, 554 U.S. 570 (2008), the Supreme Court specifically held that the ruling in United States v. Miller, 307 U. S. 174, does not limit the right to keep and bear arms to militia purposes, but rather limits the type of weapon to which the right applies to those used by the militia, i.e., those in common use for lawful purposes.

Every rifle voluntarily converted to a California Compliant rifle is one less "assault weapon" in "common use." When this current ban finally makes its way to the Supreme Court, we will need enough California-defined "assault weapons" still in "common use" within the state to justify the Supreme Court striking down the ban. By voluntarily removing "assault weapons" from "common use," we are ultimately helping the State of California's ban withstand a constitutional challenge. The State knows this, of course, which is why the DOJ's registration regulations specifically prohibit the registering of featureless rifles as "assault weapons." For the State of California's ban to pass constitutional muster, the less registered "assault weapons" the better.

Under the new law we purchased an assault weapon. How would that change under the DROS?

Quote:

3. The handgun ban and the trigger-lock requirement (as applied to self-defense) violate the Second Amendment . The District’s total ban on handgun possession in the home amounts to a prohibition on an entire class of “arms” that Americans overwhelmingly choose for the lawful purpose of self-defense. Under any of the standards of scrutiny the Court has applied to enumerated constitutional rights, this prohibition—in the place where the importance of the lawful defense of self, family, and property is most acute—would fail constitutional muster. Similarly, the requirement that any lawful firearm in the home be disassembled or bound by a trigger lock makes it impossible for citizens to use arms for the core lawful purpose of self-defense and is hence unconstitutional. Because Heller conceded at oral argument that the D. C. licensing law is permissible if it is not enforced arbitrarily and capriciously, the Court assumes that a license will satisfy his prayer for relief and does not address the licensing requirement. Assuming he is not disqualified from exercising Second Amendment rights, the District must permit Heller to register his handgun and must issue him a license to carry it in the home. Pp. 56–64.
https://www.law.cornell.edu/supct/html/07-290.ZS.html

curtisfong 08-09-2017 5:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meno377 (Post 20486789)
If you have something to contribute why we SHOULD register, I am all ears, but I haven't heard one argument for registration YET that convinces me. I mentioned all the reasons in my OP. If I have missed something, please let me know.

IOW "I want to re-argue this yet again, and prove that I'm right and you're wrong"

Enough already. I'm not contributing to this thread.

Wallabing 08-09-2017 5:26 PM

Register, and you have the privilege of openly shooting your guns at the range. Police/chp/rangers will still try to search and harrass you.

The huge problem is when confiscation happens in the future, when Newsome becomes governer

MaHoTex 08-09-2017 5:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by meno377 (Post 20485125)
Would someone like to explain in explicit details the advantage of registering?

With this question, there should be exactly zero replies to this thread. ;)

curtisfong 08-09-2017 5:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaHoTex (Post 20486964)
With this question, there should be exactly zero replies to this thread. ;)

No, it was already argued at length in another thread. Stop falling for it.

Discogodfather 08-09-2017 5:33 PM

There are less advantages to register than we originally hoped for, and if the reg period was opened the way it had been in past periods it would have been a no brainer. I have used my standard AR-15 rifle with high caps (pending the injunction result) for 20 years without any problems or issues. Obviously now it's no where near a no-brainer, and it has serious implications and disadvantages because of illegal underground regulation and underground law.

Here are the advantages of registering given the horrible regulations:

1) Using the last 30 years of history of the AWCA, no registered firearm has had further restrictions or reclassification put on it. This is not true of all other firearms, and "featureless" has no guarantee of not being targeted next

2) If they choose to mandate fixed mags like the failed SB 374 legislation of 2013 next, they might not open another reg period. Counting on another reg period being opened is not being conservative.

3) They have made this reg period as hard and frustrating as possible. The main question here is why? If they are doing it to get as few regs as possible, then they don't want people to register. Why is that? If they are pushing people to go featureless do they have a plan to attack those rifles next?

4) The de-registration process has not been proved to be really hard or impossible. 1 member had a story about it taking a year and a half. That's hardly a case study. Another member said it took 6 weeks. Two experiences mean relatively nothing, and this period could be different.

5) Legally speaking DOJ and CA have stepped way out on a limb with their legislation, their underground regulation, and their underground law. Hopefully all of it will be nullified by Rupp, but there are good chances the mandate for the BB to stay on will be struct down at some point. There is going to be an avalanche of litigation on several issues and plenty of court cases to back it up.

6) You do not have to de-register to sell the rifle. RAW licencee FFL01's can transfer the rifle and sell the rifle directly to buyers out of state.

7) Any expectation that the State of CA does not know what you have is laughable post 2014, and pre 2014. Since this is the information age, those that advocate that they do not know what you have are stuck in the 1970's when such ideas had some merit. They know all kinds of things, and it is the will (which they have demonstrated they have an unlimited amount of) and the ability (which they have demonstrated they have the power to) that prevents them from following through. Assuming that they know what you have is conservative thinking.

8) Not knowing where anything is going next, which is where we find ourselves (ALL OF US) means more options are better than fewer, and one might turn out to be the best way. It turned out in 2000 that registration was the best option, by far. This time it could be featureless, disassembly, or registration, etc. Basic math and probability tells us to hedge our bets.

9) When we register, we build common law arguments. Heller looked so promising in the begining, and despite the concept not yielding results elsewhere there is still a very good chance it will be brought back into the spotlight soon. If there are millions of rifles in CA that are standard or almost standard, it helps the Heller arguments. If the new reg period is a failure, and there are millions more featureless rifles or disassembled, fixed mag, etc. it weakens the common law Heller argument.


The concept of registration has diminished over the last 7 months, for sure. It's no longer a no-brainer and it's a tough choice. But spreading the risk around and diversifying the approach is the best chance to retain gun rights. People are going to be deeply ideologically opposed to registration with all kinds of rhetorical arguments. They tend to be people on this board that don't argue well and don't change their minds, ever.

I have not seen one anti-registration advocate come around and say "well, I see your point". I know of absolutely no blind advocates of registration that are goading or otherwise falsely representing registration as "the thing" to do with no caveats. My position has changed as the regulation fiasco played out, and I do not advocate for registration without fully disclosing the problems it could entail, including self-incrimination, no way to remove BB, travel restrictions, giving the government even more info or making that info more available to them, etc. It's a crap sandwich for sure. There are still advantages, as there are pros and cons to featureless, disassembly, fixed mag, etc.

Pick your poison, my counsel is to pick them all and see if one turns out to be better than the rest.

meno377 08-09-2017 5:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Discogodfather (Post 20486993)
There are less advantages to register than we originally hoped for, and if the reg period was opened the way it had been in past periods it would have been a no brainer. I have used my standard AR-15 rifle with high caps (pending the injunction result) for 20 years without any problems or issues. Obviously now it's no where near a no-brainer, and it has serious implications and disadvantages because of illegal underground regulation and underground law.

Here are the advantages of registering given the horrible regulations:

1) Using the last 30 years of history of the AWCA, no registered firearm has had further restrictions or reclassification put on it. This is not true of all other firearms, and "featureless" has no guarantee of not being targeted next

2) If they choose to mandate fixed mags like the failed SB 374 legislation of 2013 next, they might not open another reg period. Counting on another reg period being opened is not being conservative.

3) They have made this reg period as hard and frustrating as possible. The main question here is why? If they are doing it to get as few regs as possible, then they don't want people to register. Why is that? If they are pushing people to go featureless do they have a plan to attack those rifles next?

4) The de-registration process has not been proved to be really hard or impossible. 1 member had a story about it taking a year and a half. That's hardly a case study. Another member said it took 6 weeks. Two experiences mean relatively nothing, and this period could be different.

5) Legally speaking DOJ and CA have stepped way out on a limb with their legislation, their underground regulation, and their underground law. Hopefully all of it will be nullified by Rupp, but there are good chances the mandate for the BB to stay on will be struct down at some point. There is going to be an avalanche of litigation on several issues and plenty of court cases to back it up.

6) You do not have to de-register to sell the rifle. RAW licencee FFL01's can transfer the rifle and sell the rifle directly to buyers out of state.

7) Any expectation that the State of CA does not know what you have is laughable post 2014, and pre 2014. Since this is the information age, those that advocate that they do not know what you have are stuck in the 1970's when such ideas had some merit. They know all kinds of things, and it is the will (which they have demonstrated they have an unlimited amount of) and the ability (which they have demonstrated they have the power to) that prevents them from following through. Assuming that they know what you have is conservative thinking.

8) Not knowing where anything is going next, which is where we find ourselves (ALL OF US) means more options are better than fewer, and one might turn out to be the best way. It turned out in 2000 that registration was the best option, by far. This time it could be featureless, disassembly, or registration, etc. Basic math and probability tells us to hedge our bets.

9) When we register, we build common law arguments. Heller looked so promising in the begining, and despite the concept not yielding results elsewhere there is still a very good chance it will be brought back into the spotlight soon. If there are millions of rifles in CA that are standard or almost standard, it helps the Heller arguments. If the new reg period is a failure, and there are millions more featureless rifles or disassembled, fixed mag, etc. it weakens the common law Heller argument.


The concept of registration has diminished over the last 7 months, for sure. It's no longer a no-brainer and it's a tough choice. But spreading the risk around and diversifying the approach is the best chance to retain gun rights. People are going to be deeply ideologically opposed to registration with all kinds of rhetorical arguments. They tend to be people on this board that don't argue well and don't change their minds, ever.

I have not seen one anti-registration advocate come around and say "well, I see your point". I know of absolutely no blind advocates of registration that are goading or otherwise falsely representing registration as "the thing" to do with no caveats. My position has changed as the regulation fiasco played out, and I do not advocate for registration without fully disclosing the problems it could entail, including self-incrimination, no way to remove BB, travel restrictions, giving the government even more info or making that info more available to them, etc. It's a crap sandwich for sure. There are still advantages, as there are pros and cons to featureless, disassembly, fixed mag, etc.

Pick your poison, my counsel is to pick them all and see if one turns out to be better than the rest.

Emphasis added. Registering won't change that. 'Assault Weapons' is a made up term. Taking this to the SCOTUS would not differentiate types of semi auto rifles. Please show me some documentation that shows the type of pistol grip, flash hider, collapsible stock that makes that rifle completely different to the supreme court that is considered a valid difference, not simply a made up term?


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