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-   -   Pmag 10/20 - How To (https://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=125645)

NiteQwill 10-10-2008 5:49 PM

Pmag 10/20 - How To
 
I used the idea from the original post

Required materials:
20rd PMag
3/8" diameter rod, 6.20 cm long
2-part epoxy

Tools:
hacksaw or dremel to cut the rod

The original post gave me an idea. I originally was going to convert the Pmags to 10 rounders but thought I could convert them to 10/20's instead.

1. Epoxy a 6.20 cm 3/8" rod in the C on the follower.
http://www.sk8ng.com/dusty/wp-conten...0/img_3435.jpg
2. Assemble as necessary.
http://www.sk8ng.com/dusty/wp-conten...0/img_3437.jpg
3. The mag will hold exactly 10 rounds.
http://www.sk8ng.com/dusty/wp-conten...0/img_3438.jpg

*NOTE* The included feed lip cover will not fit with 10 rounds. Download to 9 and you should be fine. I did not want to overtrim the rod I would inadvertently fit an 11th round.

stphnman20 10-10-2008 5:53 PM

Good job man!!

sorensen440 10-10-2008 5:58 PM

Great idea I never thought about using a rod epoxied in.

Vinz 10-10-2008 6:03 PM

Nice job,

So you have to use a 30 round follower correct?


vinz

scfast 10-10-2008 7:18 PM

Nice and quick

NiteQwill 10-10-2008 7:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinz (Post 1606753)
Nice job,

So you have to use a 30 round follower correct?


vinz

Yes. It works best. I tried it with the 20 rd follower and it just didn't seem "right."

For 3/8" rod I went the inexpensive route: a clothes hanger :D

Vinz 10-10-2008 7:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by NiteQwill (Post 1606999)
Yes. It works best. I tried it with the 20 rd follower and it just didn't seem "right."

For 3/8" rod I went the inexpensive route: a clothes hanger :D

haaaa haaa, what ever works... but might not go over well with the wifes dresses on the closet floor. :rolleyes:
I guess one hanger can do a bunch of mag mods...so they are 6.2 cm long?
vinz

NiteQwill 10-10-2008 7:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinz (Post 1607015)
haaaa haaa, what ever works... but might not go over well with the wifes dresses on the closet floor. :rolleyes:
I guess one hanger can do a bunch of mag mods...so they are 6.2 cm long?
vinz

I'm sure you can make it up to the wife somehow...

Yup, just cut each rod to 6.2 cm. One standard clothes hanger can easily do 5-6 magazines. FWIW, I used a sturdy (hard to bend) clothes hanger not the ones that you can buy 25 for $5 at Target ;)

Forgot to mention, let the epoxy fully cure before moving stuff around. Don't ask me how I know... :sleeping:

Flat Broke 10-10-2008 10:14 PM

The hanger material was a nice touch. To be honest, I tried doing it with steel rod the first time around, and the disimliar materials didn't bond well with either JB or epoxy. Now plastic on plastic, epoxy or weldon should be good to go.

An idea though for added permanence; once the epoxy cures, take a drill and cross drill the follower and rod and use a pop rivet to pin the rod to the follower. That way the rivet will bear more of the load, and the epoxy is just there to stabilize the rod from swinging. I cut mine down to 10s after being less than entralled with the flimsy bond with steel rod. I might have to order a couple more 20s to give the plastic rod a shot.

Last question, what's gonna be the group concensus on whether or not these should have to be epoxied closed after they've been verified functional?

Thanks for posting the exact measurements on the 20s, I didn't bother to measure mine after I fit them and then chucked the rod.

Chris

Vinz 10-26-2008 7:13 PM

I found if you cut the rod a bit longer and angle the rod slightly towards the rear of the mag you can get the cover on and still hold just 10rounds. Just slowly trim rod to fit. Double checking the 10 round capacity.

I spoke to a Sheriffs officer about these at the range and said that if you epoxy over the button to remove the base plate that would provide enough permanency. He agrees the wording is vague but no access to the button removes the ability to reverse without ease. Much more than a rivet in the metal mag versions.

Vinz

marc4 02-15-2009 5:59 PM

Need to bump this to push it to the top of my subscribe list

glock_this 04-09-2009 8:47 AM

read all the posts on this conversion topic and have 2 questions still please:

1. how do you dissemble the pmag/remove the base plate to get to the follower? it looks like it just slides off.. but is that really the case and does it take a lot of force to pull it off? any tips?

"Yes. It works best. I tried it with the 20 rd follower and it just didn't seem "right."

2. still not clear why you 'need' a 30 rnd follower? if you just make the rod the right length, what does the follower have to do with it - that is, why would the 20 rnd follower from a 20 rnd mag not work?

xxdabroxx 04-09-2009 10:24 AM

There is a detent in the middle you have to depress, rectangular shaped.

i think the 30rnd follower has the longer tails, so it is less likely to tilt???

glock_this 05-01-2009 4:37 PM

thanks for this thread, and read this as well, with the help of it I just converted 5 10/20 pmag kits. I did not use the 30rnd follower.. guess we will see if it 'really' matters :o

my feed lip covers still fit as well even with 10

could post photos if necessary, I also used a plastic 3/8 coat hanger as the rod & I used JB weld epoxy on rod and floor plate

Turbinator 05-01-2009 5:29 PM

Thank you, I have now "sticky'ed" your thread into infamy.

Turby

WebMoskal 05-02-2009 7:30 AM

I could not find plastic rods anywhere near me, so I just used 3/8 nylon bolt
http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/o...7/IMG_2343.jpg

glock_this 05-02-2009 7:11 PM

I want to give a quick idea that I accidentally came up with while just doing 5 10/20 conversions. One 1 of my conversions, some how I accidentally cut the coat hanger 3/8" plastic rod a bit short. I had checked them all before epoxy but on 1, at the final assembly, I realized you could not fit more than 10 BUT it made me a little uncomfortable as maybe IF you pushed REAL hard, you might be able to. Just a little bit more tolerance than I felt cool with.

so, now that it was epoxied in I was like WTF! So, it dawned on me... I drilled a small hole down the center of the plastic rod about 1-2 cm and put in a nice 3/8 head sized screw into said hole. This allowed me to adjust perfectly the tolerance I wanted for the follower for that 10th round. I then epoxied that in place after a few trial and error screw in screw out settings.

I took a ton of photos, but of this piece, since it kind of happened on the fly, I did not. But it worked like a charm and I am sure you can follow the description.

POINT: It will be a going forward method for me, and one you might consider, that maybe you cut the rod the mentioned size here - or a tad short - and then do this screw in the top so you can exactly adjust the tolerance you seek. once you get it adjusted, just epoxy the screw. this way, if your a little off in your rod length or wish to have a little more, or less, follower travel after that 10th round, the screw allows for perfect personal adjustment (a little in or back it out a little) and then once that is done, epoxy into place.

DJBSR 05-04-2009 3:13 PM

I have used 3/8 hardwood dowel (yea it was the one that used to lock the bathroom window). I glue it up slightly long and trim it on the belt sander until the 10th round just goes in nicely however the 11th doesn't even come close. Finish if off with a little flat black good to go.

Ivanhoe 05-06-2009 3:30 PM

Anyone selling 20 round pmag rebuild kits to do this or are you guys using stock on hand?

glock_this 05-06-2009 8:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ivanhoe (Post 2436123)
Anyone selling 20 round pmag rebuild kits to do this or are you guys using stock on hand?

oh yeah.. look here in the market, there are 20rnd recently. I just picked up 5 last week.

cyphr02 05-07-2009 11:25 AM

Is the follower the same "Enhanced Self Leveling Follower Gen III 5.56 NATO" offered from MAGPUL?
Or is it a different follower for the PMAG?

WebMoskal 05-07-2009 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cyphr02 (Post 2441022)
Is the follower the same "Enhanced Self Leveling Follower Gen III 5.56 NATO" offered from MAGPUL?
Or is it a different follower for the PMAG?

Those would not work in PMAG. The Magpul Gen III Self Leveling Follower is a drop in replacement for the current issue USGI 30 round magazine follower.

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/o...h_IMG_3106.jpg

cyphr02 05-07-2009 12:07 PM

Thank you for clearing that up! Is there any way to get bare 30rnd PMAG followers?

AdiosKali 05-11-2009 4:10 PM

For you guys into archery, consider using an arrow that you no longer need and trim to proper length. Seems like carbon would work good.

gunzor 05-11-2009 5:16 PM

This is pretty much how I did mine, except I used 3/8" thin-walled brass tubing and JB Weld.

I was toying around with a spent .223 and realized it was close to the right diameter for that area in the follower. I walked to the local hobby shop and picked up a pair of 2' lengths of brass tube, went to the auto shop and got a package of JB Weld and then to the plumbing store for a tiny little pocket-sized pipe cutter. I think I spent $8 total, which is just about enough for 10 20-rd magazines.

After a week of curing (I was in New York), them things are rock solid. The brass doesn't add much mass at all to the follower, so I'm happy with the result.

Now I guess I have to get 5 more mags to use up all this pipe and JB Weld...

anamericanstandard 05-12-2009 5:27 PM

New Idea
 
Hi , just thought would throw my 2 cents in. I built two 10/20 Pmags this morning. I used a Nylon bolt made to hold on a toilet seat. I put the threaded end on the follower and it fit 9 almost 10. So I sanded the threaded end a bit and fit 10 perfectly. Just thought I would mention it. :43: oh by the way... $1.50 for two bolts and $3.50 for the epoxy ...So 5bucks for two mags.

Nate74 05-13-2009 7:49 PM

Very cool. So I just ordered a couple 20 rounders and will be trying this soon. So where does one find 30 round followers?

Toilet seat bolts...nice!

BTW, has anybody ever been using one of these in public and been question? They do say 20 Rounds right on them...

Jimmy Deuce 06-05-2009 10:05 AM

Not to steal the threads thunder but here is what I did.

I used a 2 1/2 inch 10-24 flat head bolt with a nut and wing nut on top. One more nut at the bottom to lock it the bolt to the inside floor plate. I Red locktited all bolts and epoxyed them. They worked just fine very little mess no cuttig of any kind.

ddimick 06-13-2009 11:40 AM

I'm unclear on why we should use 30-round followers instead of 20-round. I went ahead with the 20-round followers that came with my parts kits and it appears to work just fine. Can anyone elaborate on why 30-round followers would work better?

WebMoskal 06-13-2009 1:20 PM

Maybe older version followers were different, on mine area for building 10 rounders is pretty much the same between 20 and 30

http://i377.photobucket.com/albums/o...h_IMG_3136.jpg

Vinz 06-21-2009 8:25 PM

nice boink, one thing. You should drill and pin them just incase the epoxy cracks loose. I wouldn't goink them too much. LOL j/k


love the avatar too...big fan


vinz

problemchild 06-23-2009 7:19 AM

Couldn't a person take the mag apart and cut the the tiny plastic rod? Then you could insert more then 10rds. Am I missing something or does this not seem very permanent?

Merc1138 06-23-2009 7:26 AM

Nothing is permanent, there's a tool for everything.

boink 06-23-2009 4:08 PM

So I figured something out here. Though they both held exactly 10 rounds, neither of them would actually lock into the receiver and load because they were too tight :(

I trimmed them both down a bit. One came out perfect! just locks in and feeds, but no chance of installing an 11th round.

The other got epoxied on a slight angle, and after trimming, it's capable of feeding slightly sideways and jamming in an 11th round! ****! It won't actually lock into the gun so there is no chance of loading that extra round, but it's a problem none the less. So I had to pull it apart again and add a layer of plastic weld to the top of it. Back to the 24 hour waiting period. :sleeping:

Vinz 06-23-2009 6:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by problemchild (Post 2673748)
Couldn't a person take the mag apart and cut the the tiny plastic rod? Then you could insert more then 10rds. Am I missing something or does this not seem very permanent?

If you epoxy the base plate to the spring plate and mag base it is permanent enought as to not be easily removed without damaging the mag itself. I have tested a few with the epoxy base and after removing the base plate it was not usable.

Have you ever taken a factory 10 round mag apart? It is not sealed/riveted and it is not scrutinized. If you ever have you can actually bend a simple tab and end up with a 12 round mag. Which would make it non compliant.

Quote:

Originally Posted by boink (Post 2676406)
So I figured something out here. Though they both held exactly 10 rounds, neither of them would actually lock into the receiver and load because they were too tight :(

I trimmed them both down a bit. One came out perfect! just locks in and feeds, but no chance of installing an 11th round.

The other got epoxied on a slight angle, and after trimming, it's capable of feeding slightly sideways and jamming in an 11th round! ****! It won't actually lock into the gun so there is no chance of loading that extra round, but it's a problem none the less. So I had to pull it apart again and add a layer of plastic weld to the top of it. Back to the 24 hour waiting period. :sleeping:

I make them a tight 10 rounder. Just load them into your rifle with the bolt open. No worth to accidently get caught using an 11 round mag in a CA compliant rifle.

vinz

krypt0 06-30-2009 10:00 PM

Acquiring 20 or 30 round mags
 
So, I have a question about these modifications.

The law states that possession is not controlled, but the sale, trade and importation of > 10 round mags into California is controlled.

Also, the modification of these mags is perfectly legal.

So, how does one obtain the mags to modify? And who is the restriction on, the buyer or the seller?

Thanks,
KrYPt0

glock_this 07-01-2009 7:19 AM

Just got a chance to test all my recent 10/20 conversions (5) using the stated epoxy+coat hanger mod and they worked great. Held up and would not take an 11th round.

http://socalfj40.com/images/forums/pmag.jpg

Darklyte27 07-01-2009 7:45 AM

plastic hangers? nice

Luna 07-24-2009 1:16 PM

I couldnt find a clear answer yet. Do the magazines have to be permanently epoxied or rivited shut for it to be legal. I would think if they could be opened for cleaning they could also be easily converted back to higher capacity mags.

WebMoskal 07-24-2009 1:27 PM

I'm still looking for the thread, but in short converting to 30 will be manufacturing and that is illegal.


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