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View Full Version : Does bullet guide and mag catch mod on Saiga violate 922r?


TopGun2000
05-01-2008, 6:08 PM
After the mod If I will only be using standard AK47 US 10rd mags, do I still have to play the 922r game for Saiga 7.62? :rolleyes:

http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_762x39/large/x39_bg_round_inst.jpg

69Mach1
05-01-2008, 6:10 PM
Yes, because it now has the ability to accept those 30 round "military" magazines. Even if you have a 10 rounder locked in there.

TopGun2000
05-01-2008, 6:15 PM
Thanks. But I am still a bit confused considering it already has the ability to accept hi-cap mags from Surefire or FBMG even w/o the mod... :confused:

Harrison_Bergeron
05-01-2008, 6:24 PM
I read a letter form ATF that said something to the affect of "ability to accept high capacity magazines intended for military rifles", may be the actual wording of 922(r), not sure. Either way a Saiga is not a military rifle, therefore mags intended for a Saiga should not fall under that category, capacity probably still matters though. My interpretation.

MrTuffPaws
05-01-2008, 7:58 PM
Yes, because it now has the ability to accept those 30 round "military" magazines. Even if you have a 10 rounder locked in there.

I would have to disagree with you.

Please show me where were in 922r it states capacity to accept. 922r only deals with the parts on the rifle. If you have a 10 round mag, it is legal. If you where to put a 30 round mag in it, then you would run afoul.

There are mags already out there that have been known to work in a Saiga without the bullet guide. By this reasoning, the rifle would already be non compliant from the get go.

Harrison_Bergeron
05-01-2008, 10:55 PM
ATF Letter (http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=19536)

3. Rifles that have the ability to accept a detachable large capacity magazine
originally designed and produced for a military assault rifle or be easily
modified to accept such a magazine with only minor adjustments to the rifle.

aplinker
05-01-2008, 11:01 PM
ATF Letter (http://forum.saiga-12.com/index.php?showtopic=19536)

ummmm then how is the Saiga getting in? :confused:

mrChiBai
05-02-2008, 5:07 PM
I've researched the saiga a ton because I want to get one. I've even read the guy's site where that bullet guide pic came from. Click here for it. (http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_762x39/x39ftk.html) He and others say that by making this mod, you still have to replace at least one more part to be 922 compliant. In my opinion, the easiest mod to make for the one extra part is the gas tube replacement. You can see it by clicking here (http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_762x39/akgt1.html).

I think it's worth spending the 31 bucks for the gas tube to make it 922 compliant. I know if I was sitting in jail because of the rifle mods I would be hella kicking myself for not spending the 31 bucks. I'm sure u can save on shipping if u get the bullet guide you need from dinzagarms also. I plan to make these mods too when I get a saiga.

Harrison_Bergeron
05-02-2008, 5:38 PM
Pretty sure those gas tubes are imported, almost positive that they aren't on the list of 922(r) parts either. What would seem to work would be to use that gas tube setup to put on a US made AK hand guard in addition to a full US made magazine. That is probably the route I will go if I end up with a Saiga.

JPglee1
05-02-2008, 5:44 PM
What would seem to work would be to use that gas tube setup to put on a US made AK hand guard in addition to a full US made magazine. That is probably the route I will go if I end up with a Saiga.

Yah, thats the point...its not to get a "US" gas tube, as that doesn't matter... its so you can add a US made handguard/furniture.


Good thread.


J

mike_w
05-03-2008, 10:21 AM
and its not just 31$ for the gas tube maybe but then you have to get a hand gaurd retainer which is 80$ for the right one or press one of then the handgaurds

tombinghamthegreat
05-03-2008, 10:48 AM
I've researched the saiga a ton because I want to get one. I've even read the guy's site where that bullet guide pic came from. Click here for it. (http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_762x39/x39ftk.html) He and others say that by making this mod, you still have to replace at least one more part to be 922 compliant. In my opinion, the easiest mod to make for the one extra part is the gas tube replacement. You can see it by clicking here (http://www.dinzagarms.com/saiga_762x39/akgt1.html).

I think it's worth spending the 31 bucks for the gas tube to make it 922 compliant. I know if I was sitting in jail because of the rifle mods I would be hella kicking myself for not spending the 31 bucks. I'm sure u can save on shipping if u get the bullet guide you need from dinzagarms also. I plan to make these mods too when I get a saiga.

So if you buy a bullet guide then buy a gas tube so there is are more US made parts so its legal? Any benefits to adding a new gas tube? I don't see how that is possible because the saiga already can already fit high capacity mags without any mods.

mrChiBai
05-03-2008, 11:01 AM
So if you buy a bullet guide then buy a gas tube so there is are more US made parts so its legal? Any benefits to adding a new gas tube? I don't see how that is possible because the saiga already can already fit high capacity mags without any mods.

The bullet guide is to accept regular AK47 hc mags. You install the bullet guide and file down another piece because its too big. Why use saiga hc mags when you can use ak47 mags? AK47 hc mags are 10x more available than saiga hc mags. That includes the obscene 90 round ak mags you can use too.

If you do the gas tube mod, I believe it will allow you to add a regular US made ak gas piston too. It puts you on the road to really having a regular ak with the cali legal saiga stock.

Harrison_Bergeron
05-03-2008, 12:46 PM
So if you buy a bullet guide then buy a gas tube so there is are more US made parts so its legal? Any benefits to adding a new gas tube? I don't see how that is possible because the saiga already can already fit high capacity mags without any mods.

It is not the gas tube that makes it compliant, it is the new hand guard that will be necessary with the new gas tube that will make the rifle compliant. The thing about only needing one more US made part only applies if using a full US made mag, if using an imported mag you will need even more US parts. You need 4 listed parts to make a modified Saiga 922(r) compliant.

Can someone link to the official text of 922(r)? From responses above it sounds like the bit about not being able to accept military magazines without major modification is not part of the actual text, but everything I read has that part in it.

jacques
05-03-2008, 2:33 PM
If you modify your imported rifle into a "NON-SPORTING" configuration, you can only have 10-foreign parts on your rifle. There is a list of the compliance parts for Saiga on the Saiga forum if you search there for it. The second link has the list.

Bottom line is, if you start modifying your Saiga, you will need to be sure you install all the compliance parts required so you do not have more that 10-foreign parts.

You can buy all kinds of Mags for the Saiga now. Just use them if you don't want to have to go through the hassle of replacing all the other pieces.

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/newsletter/0205fflnewsletter.pdf

http://www.atf.gov/firearms/building_a_firearm.pdf