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View Full Version : Whats the scoop on high end actions.


StraightShooter
05-01-2008, 3:03 PM
Hi guys, i was wondering how many of you are using high end actions like Stiller,Lawton,Surgeon, Nesika, etc with your rifles. I am looking to build up a precision-tactical rig and I really like Surgeon actions with the integral rail and recoil lug. Anyone here use a surgeon action? Anyone here think that high end actions are a waste of money and that a rem 700 is just as good? Over on snipershide there may be a group buy starting up and if the price is right I may pick up a short action but I wanted to get some feedback as to what you calgunners think. Ill be attending the Novice Rifle class at pala on the 25th of this month. Is anyone else attending that has a rig build on a custom action? Thanks ahead of time for the feedback.

Fjold
05-01-2008, 3:29 PM
The high end actions get you the all the bells and whistles that you would have to pay for seperately starting with a stock action. Closer tolerances, better alignment, truer surfaces, better finish, etc. You will hear people say that my X action trued by Gunsmith X is just as good but now days the precision built actions out do any of the stock actions made, no matter how much money that you spend on them.

Pascal
05-01-2008, 3:46 PM
Remington 700 action for my rifle. Don't think it was trued, just added a match barrel and muzzle break.

Just shot my son's savage today - also standard action, not trued. Pretty much 4 out of 5 in one inch dots at 100 yards.

So...no trued actions on my side amd I'm doing pretty OK in tactical precision matches.

Most of the tactical precision shooters I know use the REM 700 as basis, trued or not.

wildcard
05-01-2008, 3:50 PM
Hi guys, i was wondering how many of you are using high end actions like Stiller, Surgeon, Nesika, etc with your rifles. I am looking to build up a precision rig and I really like Surgeon actions with the integral rail and recoil lug. Anyone here use a surgeon action? Anyone here think that high end actions are a waste of money and that a rem 700 is just as good? Over on snipershide there may be a group buy starting up and if the price is right I may pick up a short action but I wanted to get some feedback as to what you calgunners think. Ill be attending the Novice Rifle class at pala on the 25th of this month. Is anyone else attending that has a rig build on a custom action? Thanks ahead of time for the feedback.

Get one if you can afford it. The cost of a factory action + action job will still come in quite a few hundred less than a custom action + barrel installation. You'd have a difficult time trying to find a difference in PERFORMANCE. They'll have their differences like the location of the bolt release and they'll certainly feel different if you're one of the more discriminating operators.. but you'll be able you use them all the same. You really can't go wrong with a custom and I have yet to hear somebody complain about one! Stiller is a fine choice and Surgeon a pretty darn nice too. The rest just costs more than i'm willing to pay.

With that said.. I think a factory 700P will serve you well for years to come. So if budget is even marginally an issue.. i'd go this route. Heck.. I use one with factory parts and no expensive action job. The thing you really need to think hard about is what optic you're going to mount!

Vu 308
05-01-2008, 5:00 PM
Personally after I have gone with a Borden action I will probably never build a rig on a M700 action or factory action again.

A Stiller Tac30 Action is around 725.00 to 750.00

Factory M700 action is around 400.00 and if you are left handed good luck finding a donor action.

A quality smith will true it up for about 200.00, which brings you to 650.00 for a trued factory action. Now you have an almost trued up straight action. I dunno about the rest of you guys but if I had a custom built rig and my screw holes for my base were off centered and I lose a ton of windage to one side I'd be pissed.

Or have to shim my base so things were straight.....had to do this to a factory M700 P 308win for a shooter last week. His factory action was so bad a Mark 4 with a 20MOA base didn't have enough come up to hit 1K.

And I have a 2,800.00 custom built but a very known outfit that has a M700 action that has off centered screw holes. I only have 15MOA of windage on a NXS!!!! My scope? Nah..tried 3. My base? Nah...tried 2. My rings? Nah..tried 3 sets. Does the gun shoot? Sure...but for that kind of money I want my rig straight.

Or spend a few more bucks and know for a fact your action is straight (or as close as can be) and CNC machined from the ground up.

I have another Borden Alpine SA and Stiller enroute...may take me 2 years to get those built up but I know when they are done there isn't much I can blame on hardware. Just the jerk behind the trigger.

If you got the cash..go custom man...you won't regret it. The resale value is also better IMO.

Vu

rksimple
05-01-2008, 5:23 PM
As has been said, if you have the extra few hundred, get the custom. I'll probably get in on that group buy and set up a switch barrel on that action. The customs just offer all the little (or not so little) extras that you may or may not ever need. You have to make that decision.

Cypriss32
05-01-2008, 5:27 PM
If you can afford it get a custom. But then again how can you beat buying a rifle for 650.00 selling all the parts off of it for 525.00 and ending up with a 125.00 rem700 S/A. OR getting another for 100.00 by the time rest of parts are gone.

If I build something else It will be on the new GAP action, Templar action rocks. A nice 6.5x47L is in order!

StraightShooter
05-01-2008, 6:29 PM
As has been said, if you have the extra few hundred, get the custom. I'll probably get in on that group buy and set up a switch barrel on that action. The customs just offer all the little (or not so little) extras that you may or may not ever need. You have to make that decision.

Can you do a switch barrel on a surgeon because of the integral recoil lug? Im not really familiar with how a switch barrel works. Also, does anyone happen to know when Randy at R&D will start taking work again? I think im gonna go the high end route because im planning on only owning one precision rifle and I want it to be a good one. Thanks for the info so far guys.

PS: I had a question on how that group buy would work over on the hide. How does a group buy work when you have to deal with the DROS? Anyone know?

PPS: Is nightforce making a FFP scope yet? Ive heard rumors.

rksimple
05-01-2008, 6:31 PM
Can you do a switch barrel on a surgeon because of the integral recoil lug? Im not really familiar with how a switch barrel works. Also, does anyone happen to know when Randy at R&D will start taking work again?

Yes. You should be able to do it with a pinned recoil lug as well. The smith will keep the specs of your rifle and when you need a barrel, you can call him up, have one chambered and threaded and sent to your door. You can change it yourself. You can also have multiple barrels in different calibers and change them at will.

Cypriss32
05-01-2008, 6:35 PM
Randy wont be taking work for awhile im told. Hes still super backed up!

PistolPete75
05-02-2008, 10:13 AM
custom actions are good if your want a trued action from the factory, built in rail, or a fluted bolt. accuracy wise, a properly trued remington 700 action and a custom tactical action will perform the same.

Cypriss32
05-02-2008, 5:09 PM
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=569813&fpart=4

Lets get our actions ordered up!
Thinking hard about blowing the summer budget for a 6.5x47L action.

Prc329
05-02-2008, 6:04 PM
http://www.snipershide.com/forum/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=569813&fpart=4

Lets get our actions ordered up!
Thinking hard about blowing the summer budget for a 6.5x47L action.

I have to many incomplete projects I need to finish first.

ar15barrels
05-02-2008, 6:06 PM
Thinking hard about blowing the summer budget for a 6.5x47L action.

You have enough guns already.
Go shoot some matches.
Big matches are even better because you get to shoot with better shooters.
Do whatever you can to squad with the fastest/best guys there.
This will maximize what you get out of the match.
I love to walk stages with Jerry Miculek, Taran Butler or Mike Voight and pick their brains about how/why they are going to shoot it a certain way.
You can rarely get experience like this for free.

Cypriss32
05-02-2008, 8:19 PM
I think I will do what pleases me. Its not all about shooting matchs anymore. I am doing what I want to do.

ar15barrels
05-03-2008, 3:03 AM
I think I will do what pleases me. Its not all about shooting matchs anymore. I am doing what I want to do.

Gun collecting is fine too. ;)

Cypriss32
05-03-2008, 6:13 AM
Gun collecting is fine too. ;)

Shure, Right now I might now have time to do all the shooting matchs you do. I work a full time work week and take a full load of classes. Once again, That is out of your understanding isnt it?

Mute
05-03-2008, 1:42 PM
Having gone different routes, now that I've tried a custom action (Surgeon), I'll never go back to stock, unless it's an AI AW or something similar. The features I get with the custom action are worth the extra to me. If I put the same features onto a factory action, it'll cost me almost as much money.

I've thrashed rifles in the past, and I firmly believe that had I had a custom action in those cases, the action might have survived. This isn't a fault of the factory action. Just sometimes I'm a clumsy idiot. The action needs to survive me.

Vu 308
05-03-2008, 7:49 PM
Shure, Right now I might now have time to do all the shooting matchs you do. I work a full time work week and take a full load of classes. Once again, That is out of your understanding isnt it?

Eh man...we are all busy. I am sure Randall works full time to support his shooting habits as well.

You may take classes but I am sure the rest of us have stuff that either takes as much time or as much effort. i.e. family...kids...gfs...blah blah blah.

Edited: to be a nice guy. lol

ghostwong
05-03-2008, 8:01 PM
Hey Mute, if you stop eating and shooting at the same time I think your rifle will last longer.:D

Having gone different routes, now that I've tried a custom action (Surgeon), I'll never go back to stock, unless it's an AI AW or something similar. The features I get with the custom action are worth the extra to me. If I put the same features onto a factory action, it'll cost me almost as much money.

I've thrashed rifles in the past, and I firmly believe that had I had a custom action in those cases, the action might have survived. This isn't a fault of the factory action. Just sometimes I'm a clumsy idiot. The action needs to survive me.

Prc329
05-03-2008, 10:37 PM
Shure, Right now I might now have time to do all the shooting matchs you do. I work a full time work week and take a full load of classes. Once again, That is out of your understanding isnt it?

You are not the only one with a busy life. Try working 2 jobs, going to school full time and being married with a 3 and 1 year old.

StraightShooter
05-03-2008, 10:45 PM
Shure, Right now I might now have time to do all the shooting matchs you do. I work a full time work week and take a full load of classes. Once again, That is out of your understanding isnt it?

I know what you mean man. I go to school and have to work my butt off to stay ahead. I have been shooting action pistol matches for a little while and while matches are fun and all sometimes i just want to take my girlfriend out and have fun shooting at my own pace. Just because you have expensive toys doesnt mean you have to commit to a career in shooting to justify it. Some people are really into fast cars but the majority of them dont race them even when they have thousands of dollars into them. Like you said, do what pleases you.

CHIGGA73
05-21-2008, 12:45 PM
do the stiller and surgeon actions fit all stocks the same as a rem700? i've heard that some of them don't fit.

i'm thinking about a trued rem700 in a AICS stock. but if i can get a stiller or surgeon at a good price i will...unless it doesn't fit the AICS stock

(AICS cause of the DBM system)

wildcard
05-21-2008, 12:51 PM
do the stiller and surgeon actions fit all stocks the same as a rem700? i've heard that some of them don't fit.

i'm thinking about a trued rem700 in a AICS stock. but if i can get a stiller or surgeon at a good price i will...unless it doesn't fit the AICS stock

(AICS cause of the DBM system)

The answer is YES if you're talking about either long action and short action.

Exceptions are that the Stiller TAC338 will require the recoil lug area be moved up on the AICS and the skins will need to be opened up a bit to accomadate the larger circumference action. The Surgeon XL will not fit.

Either way, the major stock makers can inlet for whichever action you choose to get anyways.

Oh yeah, you can get a DBM system for whichever stock. Badger bottom metal + AI mags and you're ready to go.

CHIGGA73
05-21-2008, 12:58 PM
thanks

i appreciate the quick answer.