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IGOTDIRT4U
05-01-2008, 12:44 PM
I am new to this, so go easy.

I know of and have read the DOJ list of banned AR models. This is the loophole many are using for making AR's as new OLL's are being introduced.

Are there any new, complete AR rifles out there that are legal for sale in CA? I only can think of the Springfield SOCOM, but even that one I am not sure it is legal.

GenLee
05-01-2008, 12:54 PM
I am gonna chime in here before you get hammered. Re- read the penal code, Its not a LOOPHOLE its the law. A properly configured AR is just as legal as any other rifle.
Read it.
Learn it.
Then go build it.

5150Marcelo
05-01-2008, 12:54 PM
:xeno:

IGOTDIRT4U
05-01-2008, 1:00 PM
I am gonna chime in here before you get hammered. Re- read the penal code, Its not a LOOPHOLE its the law. A properly configured AR is just as legal as any other rifle.
Read it.
Learn it.
Then go build it.

You're missing the point. I am fully aware of how the OLL's are being bought to MAKE an AR model rifle. And I am fully aware that the AR models on the Penal Code list are banned. What I am asking for is in regard to fully built up AR models that are legal.

I did do a search. All I got was pages and pages of you guys discussing BUILDING up an AR from an OLL. I want to know if any fully built up factory models are legal. Such as the Springfield SOCOM.

pwall
05-01-2008, 1:01 PM
yes ammobros in cerritos has fully built ca compliant AR type rifles. Also I wouldn't call it a loophole. Unlike handguns, which have to be specifically approved by the doj to sell in CA, Long guns have no such list. Therefore any long gun is legal for sale in CA as long as it does not qualify as an assault weapon under CA law. To me thats not a loophole! The Springfield Socom is sold in gunshops everywhere across the state, perfectly legal. ;)

5150Marcelo
05-01-2008, 1:03 PM
Look at the site sponsors web sites like cold war shooters, rainier arms, and stuff. They got all that
:xeno:

trinydex
05-01-2008, 1:04 PM
http://calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=24575&highlight=vamint

look for the charles daly thread too, if they do indeed start importing to ca

IGOTDIRT4U
05-01-2008, 1:08 PM
Thanks, I just wanted a start into a fully factory built, and legal, AR. I knew we were just confusing terms. I admit to being an AR newb!

USN CHIEF
05-01-2008, 1:10 PM
Thanks, I just wanted a start into a fully factory built, and legal, AR. I knew we were just confusing terms. I admit to being an AR newb!

BTW, the SA SOCOM rifle is not an AR:eek: And it is legal in CA....

IGOTDIRT4U
05-01-2008, 1:12 PM
BTW, the SA SOCOM rifle is not an AR:eek: And it is legal in CA....


OK, more reading needed to get terms correct. And I have already been doing some reading here for several weeks!

BTW, nice gals and guns pics, USN Chief!

ty423
05-01-2008, 1:13 PM
yeah suprised nobody said anything till now. SA SOCOM is a M1A and not even close to a AR variant. Closest it'll ever probably come is a AR-10

USN CHIEF
05-01-2008, 1:16 PM
OK, more reading needed to get terms correct. And I have already been doing some reading here for several weeks!

BTW, nice gals and guns pics, USN Chief!

Thanks, just doing my Community Service:D

dfletcher
05-01-2008, 1:21 PM
Thanks, I just wanted a start into a fully factory built, and legal, AR. I knew we were just confusing terms. I admit to being an AR newb!

IIRC, Shotgun News carried an advert or two about selling fully assembled "CA Legal" ARs? Can't remeber the specific sellers.

As an aside, using the SOCOM anology might throw folks off a bit. Perhaps a better choice would be to reference DSA and their offerings of receivers only for those who want to do a build and their "CA Legal" fully assembled SA 58 FALs. Basically, it seems you want a fully assembled CA legal AR in the same vein as DSA offers their fully assembled CA legal FALs.

IGOTDIRT4U
05-01-2008, 1:25 PM
IIRC, Shotgun News carried an advert or two about selling fully assembled "CA Legal" ARs? Can't remeber the specific sellers.

As an aside, using the SOCOM anology might throw folks off a bit. Perhaps a better choice would be to reference DSA and their offerings of receivers only for those who want to do a build and their "CA Legal" fully assembled SA 58 FALs. Basically, it seems you want a fully assembled CA legal AR in the same vein as DSA offers their fully assembled CA legal FALs.

Correct, and I apologize for the SOCOM reference. I knew that, just was typing faster than my memory was working.

I saw some ads in Shotgun News. That is what got me started wondering which makes were legal in CA. I did not trust and advert.

In the past, I have seen the closed bottom CF lower Bushmaster at Turners. I don't care for that option, so I was probing the knowledge of this board for any other legal makes.

I got some leads. And one of the retailers in the ad banners above is near me.

-hanko
05-01-2008, 1:29 PM
IIRC, Shotgun News carried an advert or two about selling fully assembled "CA Legal" ARs? Can't remeber the specific sellers.

10 Per Cent Firearms in Taft;) One of THE pioneers w/ oll's.

-hanio

dfletcher
05-01-2008, 1:31 PM
Correct, and I apologize for the SOCOM reference. I knew that, just was typing faster than my memory was working.

I saw some ads in Shotgun News. That is what got me started wondering makes were legal in CA. I did not trust and advert.

In the past, I have seen the closed bottom CF lower Bushmaster at Turners. I don't care for that option, so I was probing the knowledge of this board for any other legal makes.

I got some leads. And one of the retailers in the ad banners above is near me.


Actually I did a quick search on the web under "ca legal ar 15" and that prompted me to come back with the admonition to NOT pick up the epoxied in or solid bottom ARs that are offered unless that is you desired choice. If you Google or Yahoo the web as I did you'll find quite a few offerings. You might want to focus on a few and return with questions about quality and such, but I would offer that you'll want to read critically how the mag is held in place and beware of any sale's hype that could lead one to conclude the seller's have something special - at a high price of course. A fully assembled CA legal lower should cost about the same as any other assembled AR lower.

USN CHIEF
05-01-2008, 1:39 PM
10 Per Cent Firearms in Taft;) One of THE pioneers w/ oll's.

-hanio

+10000.. You can buy them from fellow Cal Gun Members who make a living selling them... Buy from them instead...

aplinker
05-01-2008, 1:42 PM
You can buy fully assembled from any dealer who is willing to sell it that way.

I'd suggest contacting any of the Calguns sponsors. Since you're in SoCal:

Fort Courage Armory
Metroshot
Bright Spot Pawn
J&J Armory
Gunrunners
Ammo Bros
Cold War Shooters
etc.

The reason you're not getting a response is your question is coming from the wrong angle. Brands of "legal built rifle" isn't really the question, but rather "what dealers are willing to sell them."

You can buy any of the numerous OLLs fully built from any dealer who will do it. I'd suggest using a CG sponsor.

trinydex
05-01-2008, 2:13 PM
Thanks, I just wanted a start into a fully factory built, and legal, AR. I knew we were just confusing terms. I admit to being an AR newb!

i don't want to be misleading, but the models i showed you were not california legal, they were just off list.

in order to be california legal it has to have a monster man grip or a bullet button "configuration," in order to get that you need to go through a store that is willing to configure them before bringing into ca, or configure them from pieces IN ca.

and as a last note, don't forget the classifieds forum, buying a complete from another calgunner that needs money is a decent option as well and you don't have to pay tax.

IGOTDIRT4U
05-01-2008, 3:41 PM
+10000.. You can buy them from fellow Cal Gun Members who make a living selling them... Buy from them instead...


J&J is in my area. I'll go check them out.

IGOTDIRT4U
05-01-2008, 3:44 PM
I also checked the web for some more makes and ideas. Seems Lanworld will sell M&P15 to CA residents with the Prince 50 mag release system on it.

Also, it appears that Wilson Combat may have a CA legal one, too.

EBR Works
05-01-2008, 4:36 PM
I also checked the web for some more makes and ideas. Seems Lanworld will sell M&P15 to CA residents with the Prince 50 mag release system on it.

Also, it appears that Wilson Combat may have a CA legal one, too.

+100 on LanWorld. Chris will take care of you. A great dealer.

aplinker
05-01-2008, 4:55 PM
I also checked the web for some more makes and ideas. Seems Lanworld will sell M&P15 to CA residents with the Prince 50 mag release system on it.

Also, it appears that Wilson Combat may have a CA legal one, too.

:confused:

You're combining two ideas together that you shouldn't.

There are only a couple rifles that can claim "California Approved" legality, due to the CA-DOJ issuing opinion letters to them.

You should keep in mind these letters have ZERO force of law and do nothing to prevent you from being arrested, any more than following the law on a built rifle and it might come with a warranty. If you want that, then ask your dealer if he's willing to order one of the many off-list rifle types.

You can buy fully assembled rifles from almost any OLL friendly dealer that's willing. ANY brand can be used. Which means you're back to the standard question of, "Which brand" etc... that everyone asks. Please read through the n00b builder thread I wrote.

LanWorld specializes in adding the CA compliance parts to rifles. Very nice people. You will still need a willing import dealer locally.

Again, you're looking at the problem from the wrong perspective. Find a dealer local to you that's willing to do the assembly for you, since that's really what this is about.

The only "advantage" to buying a rifle off the shelf is you don't have to "waste" two hours putting together your lower and learning the valuable operational lessons.

IGOTDIRT4U
05-01-2008, 5:40 PM
:confused:

You're combining two ideas together that you shouldn't.

There are only a couple rifles that can claim "California Approved" legality, due to the CA-DOJ issuing opinion letters to them.

You should keep in mind these letters have ZERO force of law and do nothing to prevent you from being arrested, any more than following the law on a built rifle and it might come with a warranty. If you want that, then ask your dealer if he's willing to order one of the many off-list rifle types.

You can buy fully assembled rifles from almost any OLL friendly dealer that's willing. ANY brand can be used. Which means you're back to the standard question of, "Which brand" etc... that everyone asks. Please read through the n00b builder thread I wrote.

LanWorld specializes in adding the CA compliance parts to rifles. Very nice people. You will still need a willing import dealer locally.

Again, you're looking at the problem from the wrong perspective. Find a dealer local to you that's willing to do the assembly for you, since that's really what this is about.

The only "advantage" to buying a rifle off the shelf is you don't have to "waste" two hours putting together your lower and learning the valuable operational lessons.


If I'm not mistaken, if the rifle is not already on the PC AW list, and it has an approved mag retention setup such as the Prince 50 mag release button system, or a BB system, then it shouldbe legal in CA, IF the mag mods were made under certain conditions. That is how Lanworld is getting M&P15's in CA.

I also note Wilson Combat OLL's are being sold in CA, and now it appears you can get a Wilson Combat fully factory built with a Prince 50 mag retention system and 10 rd mag through local CA source(s).

I agree, I should build one from the OLL up. I do not have the luxury of that avenue right now, but I will build a second one from an OLL when the time presents itself. Right now, I am looking for a built up AR.

I am not new to rifles and handguns, just the whole AR world. I did read the FAQ, too.

Hopi
05-01-2008, 5:49 PM
I saw some ads in Shotgun News. That is what got me started wondering which makes were legal in CA.




Way to go Wes!

IGOTDIRT4U
05-01-2008, 5:51 PM
Way to go Wes!

LOL. Can of worms, eh?

Hopi
05-01-2008, 5:55 PM
LOL. Can of worms, eh?

I don't remember hearing from Wes how effective his SGN ads were, I believe you are the first person to publicly mention those ads being responsible for the start of your BRD.

elSquid
05-01-2008, 6:18 PM
If I'm not mistaken, if the rifle is not already on the PC AW list, and it has an approved mag retention setup such as the Prince 50 mag release button system, or a BB system, then it shouldbe legal in CA, IF the mag mods were made under certain conditions.

Note: the BB and Prince 50 have not been officially approved by the DOJ. So if that is what you are looking for, you won't find it.

You can build one so equipped, and a dealer can build one for you, but so far you can't get one from "the factory".

AFAIK, the only factory AR in CA legal config is the Bushmaster with the sealed magwell.

It sounds like Charles Daly is going to have a CA variant (http://www.charlesdalydefense.com/) available soon, but we don't know what form it will take.



I also note Wilson Combat OLL's are being sold in CA, and now it appears you can get a Wilson Combat fully factory built with a Prince 50 mag retention system and 10 rd mag through local CA source(s).


Is Wilson offering this, or is this being done by a dealer?

I agree, I should build one from the OLL up. I do not have the luxury of that avenue right now, but I will build a second one from an OLL when the time presents itself. Right now, I am looking for a built up AR.

I know you want a prebuilt one, but assembling a lower really is pretty easy and it doesn't take all that long.

If the reason you want a factory AR with a BB is for legal ( ie "CYA") reasons, currently you are SOL.

-- Michael

River Jack
05-01-2008, 6:57 PM
Cold War Shooters in Highland has all kinds of completely built AR & AK patterned rifles for you to look at, handle, drool over, and buy. Stop in and check them out; they are very knowledgeable, helpful, and friendly.

River Jack

domokun
05-01-2008, 7:54 PM
+10000.. You can buy them from fellow Cal Gun Members who make a living selling them... Buy from them instead...

If you do not have the luxury of the couple of hours it takes to assemble a complete rifle on your own with the provided instrucitons that can be found on this website, many of the shops that sponsor the Calguns forum located in SoCal can probably put together a "fully assembled" CA legal "AR" for a small fee. Just show them a picture or a specification list from an ad or and they'll be able to deliver to you something simlar or very close to it, fully assembled.

The dealer assembled OLL based CA legal "AR" will function, look and feel just like any "AR" that you could have purchased completely assembled from the manufacturer. Additionally it will have the "bonus" of not having to have a sealed magazine well prior to it arriving in CA.

aplinker
05-01-2008, 11:55 PM
Again, it's dealers who are doing this. They're getting rifles broken down (separated from the uppers) and installing mag locks or having their supplier ship them in with the BB or P50 in place. As such, "brand" is really irrelevant.

I know you understand what's required to make it legal, but what you're not getting is that the manufacturer doing it isn't really relevant - as the ones you listed are not the manufacturer, but a dealer/supplier.

Here's my suggestion to you. Get a complete LMT lower with SOPMOD/2-stage trigger, install the bullet button (5 minutes) and put on a complete LMT upper (30 seconds).

Any dealer will be able to help you with this.

If I'm not mistaken, if the rifle is not already on the PC AW list, and it has an approved mag retention setup such as the Prince 50 mag release button system, or a BB system, then it shouldbe legal in CA, IF the mag mods were made under certain conditions. That is how Lanworld is getting M&P15's in CA.

I also note Wilson Combat OLL's are being sold in CA, and now it appears you can get a Wilson Combat fully factory built with a Prince 50 mag retention system and 10 rd mag through local CA source(s).

I agree, I should build one from the OLL up. I do not have the luxury of that avenue right now, but I will build a second one from an OLL when the time presents itself. Right now, I am looking for a built up AR.

I am not new to rifles and handguns, just the whole AR world. I did read the FAQ, too.

IGOTDIRT4U
05-02-2008, 7:45 AM
Here's my suggestion to you. Get a complete LMT lower with SOPMOD/2-stage trigger, install the bullet button (5 minutes) and put on a complete LMT upper (30 seconds).


I like that idea. Time to shop. Thanks again.

aplinker
05-02-2008, 4:14 PM
Or call up LanWorld or CWS and have them pre-install a BB in a Noveske (I'm extremely partial to the N4 RECCE :) )