PDA

View Full Version : ATF approval for folded stock on a pistol!


Hopi
04-30-2008, 12:35 PM
I was browsing this months Shotgun News and came across an interesting little gem.

I.O. is selling a pistol copy of a submachine gun, the interesting part being is that the pistol is built with a 'permanently' folded stock. The marketing includes reference to an ATF letter of approval. Check out the link if you want.

http://ioinc.us/mm5/graphics/00000002/DITT0001sm.jpg

http://ioinc.us/mm5/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Store_Code=IO&Product_Code=DITT0001&Category_Code=Hand+Guns

If the ATF approves this pistol, they shouldn't have a problem with a permanently folded stock on a "Krinkov" style homebuilt pistol, right?


Does anybody know what defines the acceptable level of permanence?

Stanze
04-30-2008, 12:45 PM
$4K?:eek:

Hopi
04-30-2008, 12:51 PM
$4K?:eek:

Yeah. Pay not any attention to the absurd price.

I would like to focus on the implications behind the ATF approval of a stock on a pistol!

gose
04-30-2008, 12:57 PM
Yeah. Pay not any attention to the absurd price.
I would like to focus on the implications behind the ATF approval of a stock on a pistol!

Well, the difference between no stock and a permanently folded one is marginal, right?

It will make it heavier and bulkier, so why not? The only reason I can see would be for looks...

Hopi
04-30-2008, 1:01 PM
Well, the difference between no stock and a permanently folded one is marginal, right?
Yes, but this is the ATF we're talking about.
What is the acceptable level of 'permanence' in the eyes of the ATF? When assembling the gun, and before the 'permanent' alteration, how would one avoid manufacturing an SBR?


It will make it heavier and bulkier, so why not? The only reason I can see would be for looks...
I think it would be interesting to have an 'Osama Special', a Krink pistol with the stock permanently folded.

mymonkeyman
04-30-2008, 1:04 PM
The other problem is that CA has its own SBR law and the CA DOJ does not "approve" things like the ATF does.

gose
04-30-2008, 1:12 PM
Yes, but this is the ATF we're talking about.
What is the acceptable level of 'permanence' in the eyes of the ATF? When assembling the gun, and before the 'permanent' alteration, how would one avoid manufacturing an SBR?
I think it would be interesting to have an 'Osama Special', a Krink pistol with the stock permanently folded.

Might not be a very big problem for the right manufacturer, if they have a Class 2 SOT.

For a non-ffl you should be able to permanently fix the stock to the receiver/lower before putting it all together. Just make sure that you dont have the upper and lower anywhere near each other before the stock is permanently fixed, to avoid Federal constructive possession charges. This should apply in normal states, but since the fixed folding stock might not fly in CA, you're probably out of luck anyway.

Hopi
04-30-2008, 1:27 PM
The other problem is that CA has its own SBR law and the CA DOJ does not "approve" things like the ATF does.

Interesting. Would it be a question of effective 'permanence' with re: to CA law?

Hopi
04-30-2008, 1:28 PM
Might not be a very big problem for the right manufacturer, if they have a Class 2 SOT.

For a non-ffl you should be able to permanently fix the stock to the receiver/lower before putting it all together. Just make sure that you dont have the upper and lower anywhere near each other before the stock is permanently fixed, to avoid Federal constructive possession charges.

Of course. But AK receivers actually house the stock assembly. keeping the upper away from the lower would be irrelevant here, no?

gose
04-30-2008, 1:51 PM
Of course. But AK receivers actually house the stock assembly. keeping the upper away from the lower would be irrelevant here, no?

So for an AK I guess you would have to fix the stock in place before the barrel gets on there.