PDA

View Full Version : Arrested for no CCW permit


Builder
04-30-2008, 9:07 AM
http://www.palmbeachpost.com/treasurecoast/content/tcoast/epaper/2008/04/29/0429knivesinprothetic.html
Man Stashes Weapons In Prosthetic Leg
Homeless Man Had Been Robbed Before
4 knives found in fake leg lead to man's arrest in Fort Pierce
By ANA X. CERON
Palm Beach Post Staff Writer
Tuesday, April 29, 2008
FORT PIERCE A homeless man is in jail on a charge of possessing a weapon after he allegedly went to a hospital and handed over several weapons, including four knives hidden in the hollow of his prosthetic leg.
Two police officers were dispatched Saturday to Lawnwood Medical Center and Heart Institute regarding a patient with concealed weapons.
When they got there, a police report states, a nurse said he had removed a loaded revolver, 23 rounds of ammunition and four knives from patient Jerry Moody, 64.
Fire-rescue officials had picked up the man from a truck stop. When he arrived at the emergency room, Moody alerted staff that he was armed, the nurse said.
The knives - two pocket knives and two steak knives - were in the hollow of his prosthetic leg, the nurse told officers.
Moody said he was homeless and has been attacked before, police say. He said "he doesn't care what he has to do, he is going to protect himself," the report states.
Because he didn't have a concealed weapons permit and Moody is a convicted felon, he was arrested, police said.
Looks like he doesn't have a leg to stand on....

CCWFacts
04-30-2008, 10:03 AM
He has a right to bear legs!

EBWhite
04-30-2008, 10:11 AM
Too bad that he is not in the wrong.

dfletcher
04-30-2008, 10:12 AM
A hollowed out wooden leg? He should blame it on armed Keebler elves - someone's got to guard the cookie store.

Hopi
04-30-2008, 10:16 AM
Too bad that he is not in the wrong.

Whether 'right' or 'wrong' by your measure, a Felon in possession of a firearm in CA is breaking the law. He was arrested for, among the other listed offenses, breaking that law.

JPglee1
04-30-2008, 10:17 AM
Whether 'right' or 'wrong' by your measure, a Felon in possession of a firearm in CA is breaking the law. He was arrested for, among the other listed offenses, breaking that law.

In Palm Beach, florida...possessing knives.

Not really relevant to Cali much,


J

Hopi
04-30-2008, 10:24 AM
In Palm Beach, florida...possessing knives.

Not really relevant to Cali much,


J

Ooops, missed the state. But....
When they got there, a police report states, a nurse said he had removed a loaded revolver, 23 rounds of ammunition and four knives from patient Jerry Moody, 64.

and...

Felon's may not carry firearms in Florida. A Felon in Possession of a Firearm charge comes with a minimum 3 year sentence even if no crime is being committed.

Decoligny
04-30-2008, 10:43 AM
In Palm Beach, florida...possessing knives.

Not really relevant to Cali much,


J

The offense is relevant in California. Carrying a concealed firearm is a misdemeanor. Carrying a concealed "dagger", is a felony. And a dagger is simply any knife that is readily used for stabbing. An open folding knife, is a dagger, and if concealed, up to a year in jail. The steak knives he was carrying fall into the dagger definition.

12020. (a) Any person in this state who manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses any cane gun or wallet gun, any undetectable firearm, any firearm which is not immediately recognizable as a firearm, any camouflaging firearm container, any ammunition which contains or consists of any flechette dart, any bullet containing or carrying an explosive agent, any ballistic knife, any multiburst trigger activator, any nunchaku, any short-barreled shotgun, any short-barreled rifle, any metal knuckles, any belt buckle knife, any leaded cane, any zip gun, any shuriken, any unconventional pistol, any lipstick case knife, any cane sword, any shobi-zue, any air gauge knife, any writing pen knife, any metal military practice handgrenade or metal replica handgrenade, or any instrument or weapon of the kind commonly known as a blackjack, slungshot, billy, sandclub, sap, or sandbag, or who carries concealed upon his or her person any explosive substance, other than fixed ammunition, or who carries concealed upon his or her person any dirk or dagger is punishable by imprisonment in a county jail not exceeding one year or in the state prison...........

(24) As used in this section, a "dirk" or "dagger" means a knife or other instrument with or without a handguard that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death. A nonlocking folding knife, a folding knife that is not prohibited by Section 653k, or a pocketknife is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon that may inflict great bodily injury or death only if the blade of the knife is exposed and locked into position.
(d) Knives carried in sheaths which are worn openly suspended from the waist of the wearer are not concealed within the meaning of this section.

CCWFacts
04-30-2008, 11:31 AM
Whether 'right' or 'wrong' by your measure, a Felon in possession of a firearm in CA is breaking the law. He was arrested for, among the other listed offenses, breaking that law.

It's in Florida, not California. In FL, carrying any type of weapon without a permit is a felony apparently.

Here in CA, we have an unofficial "some people can carry guns" system in the form of unauthorized CCW is a misdemeanor. In most other states, they have ordinary permit systems and unauthorized carry is much more serious. Obviously, my opinion is that permits should be available in a shall-issue manner, and carrying without a permit should be a serious offense.

Fate
04-30-2008, 11:33 AM
Guy gets 3 years of free room, board and medical. Almost a step up for a homeless, disabled person.

Hopi
04-30-2008, 11:51 AM
It's in Florida, not California. In FL, carrying any type of weapon without a permit is a felony apparently.

Here in CA, we have an unofficial "some people can carry guns" system in the form of unauthorized CCW is a misdemeanor. In most other states, they have ordinary permit systems and unauthorized carry is much more serious. Obviously, my opinion is that permits should be available in a shall-issue manner, and carrying without a permit should be a serious offense.

Yes, see post #7. Thanks!

MrTuffPaws
04-30-2008, 1:12 PM
Guy gets 3 years of free room, board and medical. Almost a step up for a homeless, disabled person.

Sadly, you missed the point of it being prison.

Piper
04-30-2008, 1:44 PM
Sadly, you missed the point of it being prison.

A roof, 4 walls and 3 squares is a step up for a homeless guy, even if it is prison.

Hopi
04-30-2008, 1:58 PM
A roof, 4 walls and 3 squares is a step up for a homeless guy, even if it is prison.

Freedom is worth more than you value it.

MrTuffPaws
04-30-2008, 2:50 PM
Freedom is worth more than you value it.

Thanks. You saved me a reply.

Linh
04-30-2008, 3:11 PM
One of the city in cali gave a homeless guy a month to stay at a hotel. Free.....but the guy left after 3 days, he couldn't take it. Living there was too hard for him. He would rather be on the street.

I would at least hope that most of us agreed that convicted felons should not be allowed to own a weapon. THat's the only anti gun thing about me is that I don't believe criminals should be allowed to own guns.

Hopi
04-30-2008, 3:20 PM
I would at least hope that most of us agreed that convicted felons should not be allowed to own a weapon. THat's the only anti gun thing about me is that I don't believe criminals should be allowed to own guns.

You shouldn't give wholesale trust to those that write and/or enforce our laws. A felony conviction implies a wide-range of offenses, some of which shouldn't be punishable by a lifetime ban on constitutional protections. There are intricacies here that are painted with many shades of gray, and this reality is influenced by folks that aren't looking out for your best interests......

5968
04-30-2008, 3:54 PM
I think he should go to jail. Convicted felon carrying a concealed weapons. :nono:

FreedomIsNotFree
04-30-2008, 4:42 PM
Well, he should have just setup the fake leg to accept a lock of some sort....issue resolved. :eek:

Linh
04-30-2008, 4:53 PM
Well, he should have just setup the fake leg to accept a lock of some sort....issue resolved. :eek:

A leg button? Where he could use a tip of a bullet or a pen to unlock the opening to his leg.



Hopi,

I agree with what you said. It's just some pro gun people in an earlier thread stated that there should not be a single rule on gun ownership and stated that those that shouldn't be allowed to own one should be in jail. Well in a perfect world sure no rules but this isn't a perfect world, and there are lots of criminals that should be in jail longer but the system let them out.

Take California they are letting some criminals out early due to the budget lol.

HowardW56
04-30-2008, 6:04 PM
Freedom is worth more than you value it.


I agree

Shotgun Man
04-30-2008, 6:05 PM
Carrying a concealed "dagger", is a felony. And a dagger is simply any knife that is readily used for stabbing. An open folding knife, is a dagger, and if concealed, up to a year in jail. The steak knives he was carrying fall into the dagger definition.



The case law (in California) is actually more broad and sweeping than your post suggests. Your grandmother could put her knitting needles inside her breast pocket (she's doing jury service, so she wore a jacket.) That is a felony. It is a felony to conceal on your person any device that is capable of stabbing, be it a knife, screwdriver, knitting needles, (or even keys?).

See People v. Rubalcava, 23 Cal. 4th 322. It's crazy. You are not allowed to carry concealed upon your person a device capable of stabbing irrespective of your intent.

California Supreme Court-- what a bunch of yahoos.

Obviously they do not have a high regard for personal liberty. They should have said the law does not intend absurd results. The legislature could not have intended to prohibit the garage mechanic from placing a screwdriver in the pocket of his dickeys which are in fact designed to hold screwdrivers to facilitate the mechanics work... (etc.).

But in fact they held the exact opposite.


SUMMARY:


CALIFORNIA OFFICIAL REPORTS SUMMARY


A jury found defendant guilty of carrying a concealed dirk or dagger (Pen. Code, 12020, subd. (a)). At trial, defendant claimed the knife was a letter opener, not a weapon. At the close of testimony, the trial court instructed the jury on the elements of the crime by reading modified versions of CALJIC Nos. 12.41 and 3.30, which defined the offense as a general intent crime. Defendant did not request CALJIC No. 12.42, which states that the jury may consider the defendant's intended use of the instrument when determining whether it is a dirk or dagger. (Superior Court of San Diego County, No. SCD130368, Richard M. Murphy, Judge.) The Court of Appeal, Fourth Dist., Div. One, No. D030483, affirmed.

The Supreme Court affirmed the judgment of the Court of Appeal. The court held that the unlawful carrying of a concealed dirk or dagger is not a specific intent crime that imposes a sua sponte duty on trial courts to instruct the jury according to CALJIC No. 12.42. Intent to use the concealed instrument as a stabbing weapon is not an element of the crime. The relevant language of Pen. Code, 12020, is unambiguous in this regard. The legislative history is also clear and unequivocal on this point. Further, the potentially broad reach of Pen. Code, 12020, in the absence of a specific intent element does not render the statute unconstitutional. To commit the offense, the defendant must have the requisite mens rea, that is, he or she must knowingly and intentionally carry, concealed upon his or her person, an instrument that is capable of ready use as a stabbing weapon (Pen. Code, 12020, subds. (a), (c)(24)). Finally, since there are no vague terms in the statute that might be open to multiple interpretations, and since it does not impair constitutionally protected conduct, Pen. Code, 12020, is not unconstitutionally vague or overbroad despite the absence of a specific intent element. (Opinion by Brown, J., with George, C. J., Kennard, Baxter, Werdegar, and Chin, JJ., concurring. Concurring opinion by Mosk, J. (see p. 334). Concurring opinion by Werdegar, J. (see p. 336).)


ETA: And let's not forget-- doesn't the RKBA include so-called stabbing devices? Heller might provide some relief from those knitting needle grabbers in Sacramento!

HowardW56
04-30-2008, 6:05 PM
One of the city in cali gave a homeless guy a month to stay at a hotel. Free.....but the guy left after 3 days, he couldn't take it. Living there was too hard for him. He would rather be on the street.

I would at least hope that most of us agreed that convicted felons should not be allowed to own a weapon. THat's the only anti gun thing about me is that I don't believe criminals should be allowed to own guns.


I agree....

Decoligny
04-30-2008, 6:30 PM
Guy gets 3 years of free room, board and medical. Almost a step up for a homeless, disabled person.

Reminds me of my Great Uncle Dutch. He was a bum. At the first snow of the year each year during the depression he used to throw a trash can through a store window and wait for the cops to come arrest him. He would get two or three months in county lockup. Warm place to sleep, and three squares a day.

Fate
04-30-2008, 7:21 PM
Sadly, you missed the point of it being prison.

Sadly, in your haste to show some righteous indignation, you missed my inclusion of the word "almost."

MrTuffPaws
04-30-2008, 8:55 PM
Sadly, in your haste to show some righteous indignation, you missed my inclusion of the word "almost."

The word almost doesn't even apply to freedom.

Fate
05-01-2008, 10:23 AM
So you believe he should be released and no charges filed?

duenor
05-01-2008, 2:49 PM
depends what his felony is.

Solidmch
05-01-2008, 10:28 PM
I hope he rots!

ibanezfoo
05-02-2008, 9:42 AM
So we are allowed to keep weapons in our homes, but this man has no home... he is not entitled to the same protection as the rest of us? I hate bums, but come on...

-Bryan

Edit: Missed the felon part. I agree with felons not owning weapons (err, well most of them anyway... its becoming easier and easier to be labeled a felon these days) but not with homeless not being able to defend themselves.