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drummerdude1188
04-29-2008, 4:07 PM
Hey guys whats the situation with owning belt fed semi's? Can we own all types just not links over 10 rounds (unless you had them before the ban) or do we have the same resrtictions that AW have. ex: so you can have the links but no pistol grip below the action type of thing? 1919's are ok but pkm/mg42 types have to have the grip removed so they only have the one feature (links)? Any help is apreciated as the belt fed area is kinda a grey area for me

AJAX22
04-29-2008, 4:45 PM
it depends on what the batfe/doj has classified the weapon as.

1919's and M2's are considered to be crew served weapons, and as such are not rifles, pistols, or AOW's

They are simply irregular title 1 firearms

I don't know if the PKM/MG42 has had a determination made yet.

drclark
04-29-2008, 5:07 PM
My understanding is that linked belts are considered ammunition feeding devices. Belts > 10 rnds had to have been linked prior to the hi-cap ban. I would think that existing "high cap" linked belts are allowed to be repaired (i.e. re-linked) after being shot similar to how exisiting high cap mags can be repaired/rebuilt. What I don't know is if loose links are considered ammuntion feeding devices in and of themselves or if you had a bunch of loose links prior to the ban, could you use them to link up a belt > 10 rnds?

Now here's a related but slightly off topic question: Is offereing "bullet belts" for sale legal in CA. A bullet belt is a fashion accessory often worn by punk-rock types made of linked inert ammuntion. This company is located in CA and makes/sells bullet-belts (and linked-ammo gituar straps).

http://www.machinegunbelts.com/

If you check their "policies" page they even have a prop65 warning. Now from what I can tell, these belts are "high-cap" belts of inert ammo. Couldn't you simply replace each round of inert ammo with a live round and you're good to go? Or is there some loop hole where filling an ammuntion feeding device with inert rounds suddenly makes it transferable in this state :eek: ? Or is this company just ripe for a DOJ raid?

drc

drummerdude1188
04-29-2008, 7:45 PM
btt

AJAX22
04-29-2008, 7:54 PM
Good question.... I don't know

I have a number of linked belts of ammo... some of which is .308 blank rounds...

Because it is blank ammo does it not count?

It's a mystery to me.

50BMGBOB
04-29-2008, 8:09 PM
When I ordered links for my mini 1919 (22LR) the out of state distributor won't ship empty links to CA but the in state distributor would but only in packs of 10 or less to please the CADOJ. So I got 100 ten packs of 22LR links and he even gave me the bulk discount rate even thought he had to count and package them.

andrei
04-29-2008, 8:16 PM
Hey guys whats the situation with owning belt fed semi's? Can we own all types just not links over 10 rounds (unless you had them before the ban) or do we have the same resrtictions that AW have. ex: so you can have the links but no pistol grip below the action type of thing? 1919's are ok but pkm/mg42 types have to have the grip removed so they only have the one feature (links)? Any help is apreciated as the belt fed area is kinda a grey area for me


Well,looks like you did buy or won to buy a PKM kit.
I been looking to buy kit and reciever from guy in California for a month
and did not do it.It is verry grey aria.
The only two ways you can have PKM in California with no pistol grip,
or as a singl shot rifle.You have to permanently disable gas system in the rifle
not on the barrel.
The only one company produce legal PKM approved buy ATF is http://marcolmarfirearms.com/ .
They don't won to even tolke to costomers from California.
To build it with no 922r Semi Auto Compliance Parts
Striker, Bolt Drive Rod, Spring Package, Trigger, Sear, Disconnector
Remanufacture of the trigger lower for semi operation
Remanufacture of the bolt and carrier for Semi Auto operation
New design firing pin and spring will be a big problem.
Sorry,but this is a reality.

redcliff
04-29-2008, 8:18 PM
it depends on what the batfe/doj has classified the weapon as.

1919's and M2's are considered to be crew served weapons, and as such are not rifles, pistols, or AOW's

They are simply irregular title 1 firearms

I don't know if the PKM/MG42 has had a determination made yet.


Okay question on M60-D.. Can it have a flash suppresor? Or does the M60D get by on the featureless build definition of a rifle?

JPglee1
04-30-2008, 7:08 AM
Imagine a CA legal Saiga stocked belt fed rifle/carbine..... If you search MG47 on Google or go look at Gunco, or Gunsnet you should find soem stuff. Its on weaponeer alsol....

http://img2.putfile.com/main/4/10903041611.jpg

http://aycu21.webshots.com/image/43500/2006372774669876972_rs.jpg
http://aycu04.webshots.com/image/43843/2001488947808135238_rs.jpg
http://aycu32.webshots.com/image/45671/2005310076154371869_rs.jpg
http://aycu10.webshots.com/image/50009/2001686738337943456_rs.jpg

drummerdude1188
04-30-2008, 8:52 AM
Now that I think about it, the PKM is a Kalashnikov design and most likely the grip is the same as on a regular AK, so in theory you could probably mount a MMG (with slight modification) on the PKM and be good to go. Im not sure about this but ill ask the guys on The AK Forum who have them and see if the way the grips mounted are the same as on an AK.

CSACANNONEER
04-30-2008, 4:13 PM
it depends on what the batfe/doj has classified the weapon as.

1919's and M2's are considered to be crew served weapons, and as such are not rifles, pistols, or AOW's

They are simply irregular title 1 firearms

I don't know if the PKM/MG42 has had a determination made yet.

I've never seen any official paperwork scalling either one a crew served weapon. It is my belief that since they simply are not "listed" and are configured to be SB23 compliant, they are legal. ***Warning*** It is possible to start with a 1919AK and manufacture an AW. While in Ca., never, put an A6 stock on it and install a flash hider. Also, never get the stupid kit that makes it shoudler fired and has a pistol grip that protrudes below the action.

Blue
04-30-2008, 4:35 PM
***Warning*** It is possible to start with a 1919AK and manufacture an AW. While in Ca., never, put an A6 stock on it and install a flash hider.

There was one just like that at a gunshow 2 years ago here in SJ and the guy said that since it's not a rifle it didn't matter :eek:

CSACANNONEER
04-30-2008, 4:37 PM
There was one just like that at a gunshow 2 years ago here in SJ and the guy said that since it's not a rifle it didn't matter :eek:

That's a chance I'm not willing to take.

Blue
04-30-2008, 4:38 PM
That's a chance I'm not willing to take.

Me neither. I thought it was really odd because when I asked if he had any links for sale the guy about filled his Depends up with a fresh load and said he wasn't interested in a felony :rolleyes:

m24armorer
04-30-2008, 5:50 PM
I have the DOJ letter. 1919A6 is ok. No letter but the M60 D is ok. So is a Vickers and a M2 50. So back to my belt fed M96 Stoner clone with spade grips.

Works for me.

BTW, the 1919A4/A6 is a firearm not a rifle.

drummerdude1188
04-30-2008, 6:06 PM
So is a PKM considered a firearm or a rifle? I started this thread to find out if there legal for us to own because I cant seem to find any other info, not interested in 1919's. So does anyone definitively know if PKM's are ok are not?

redcliff
04-30-2008, 6:20 PM
So is a PKM considered a firearm or a rifle? I started this thread to find out if there legal for us to own because I cant seem to find any other info, not interested in 1919's. So does anyone definitively know if PKM's are ok are not?

My best guess is no pistol grip or other evil features and only 10 round links unless you had greater than 10 rounds linked pre-ban.

Other than the 1919A6, which puzzles yet pleases me, the other weapons mentioned here are spade or rear of the receiver grip firearms that have no shoulder stock so they don't classify as rifles.

redcliff
04-30-2008, 6:21 PM
:threadjacked:

I have the DOJ letter. 1919A6 is ok. No letter but the M60 D is ok. So is a Vickers and a M2 50. So back to my belt fed M96 Stoner clone with spade grips.

Works for me.

BTW, the 1919A4/A6 is a firearm not a rifle.

Belt fed M96 Stoner clone with spade grips??


:useless:

1919_4_ME
04-30-2008, 6:28 PM
So is a PKM considered a firearm or a rifle? I started this thread to find out if there legal for us to own because I cant seem to find any other info, not interested in 1919's. So does anyone definitively know if PKM's are ok are not?



PKM's would work if you change out the flashider for a compesator and either machine off the lower grip part or make some sort of MMG grip adapter for it then it would legal.Also you would need to have someone cut you down 10 round belts unless you already have preban belts laying around.
The PKM's are very cool as I just got to shoot a F/A one the other day and they run like a raped ape.Theres nothin like shooting 7.62x54 at 650rpm...:TFH: