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View Full Version : Kel-Tec SU-16 CA w/ pistol grip, CA legal


kitkat
04-29-2008, 12:28 AM
First of all this is my first post. I have been lurking for a while and finally had to ask for some advice.:)

I have a Kel-Tec SU-16 CA model. I recently acquired a pistol grip modification for it.

I was wondering if this will work to make the kel-tec su-16 CA legal after I install the pistol grip and a 6 position stock:

1) I put in one of Kel-Tec's standard 10 round mags in to the magazine slot.
2) I then drill through the magazine slot on the rifle and continue drilling straight through the magazine while still keeping the magazine's ability to function.
3) I put a bolt through the outside of the magazine slot right through the magazine.
4) I slip a star shaped nut to the end and lock down the magazine.

This would lock the magazine in and require a tool to undo the locked magazine block.

Would this set up be CA legal?

Guns R Tools
04-29-2008, 12:32 AM
No, the receiver started out as a rifle and cannot be converted to pistol.

duenor
04-29-2008, 12:37 AM
i dont think hes trying to make it into a pistol.
i would very much like to seee what this pistol grip and stock looks like as i cant figure out how you might mod it short of replacing major parts.

your mag modification likely will not work since that bolt is going to get in the way of your cartridges being able to rise up (or go down)

robitrocks
04-29-2008, 12:42 AM
Is this the mod you're talking about? I think Keltec had been even kicking around a bullet button type version for CA.
http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1192039100/135
http://www.owenatkins.com/su16/su16ecomp.jpg

mymonkeyman
04-29-2008, 1:17 AM
You'd have to be pretty dang sure you couldn't get that nut off with your fingers twisting the bolt and a lot of persistence.

Secondly, you would not want to do that "after" you put on the PG and collapsible stock, but rather before you put on them or any other evil features. Otherwise you have illegally (albeit temporarily) manufactured and been in possession of an unregistered AW.

The other main issue is: why would you want a fixed-magazine Kel-tec when you can have a fixed-magazine AR-type rifle? The whole point of the Kel-tec is the removable magazine + traditional grip & stock.

Crazed_SS
04-29-2008, 1:20 AM
First of all this is my first post. I have been lurking for a while and finally had to ask for some advice.:)

I have a Kel-Tec SU-16 CA model. I recently acquired a pistol grip modification for it.

I was wondering if this will work to make the kel-tec su-16 CA legal after I install the pistol grip and a 6 position stock:

1) I put in one of Kel-Tec's standard 10 round mags in to the magazine slot.
2) I then drill through the magazine slot on the rifle and continue drilling straight through the magazine while still keeping the magazine's ability to function.
3) I put a bolt through the outside of the magazine slot right through the magazine.
4) I slip a star shaped nut to the end and lock down the magazine.

This would lock the magazine in and require a tool to undo the locked magazine block.

Would this set up be CA legal?

It could work, but why ruin a perfectly good rifle just so you can have a pistol grip? I doubt it will add any functionality to the gun. If anything, you will be losing functionality

railroader
04-29-2008, 6:06 AM
Keltec bullet button. http://www.ktog.org/cgi-bin/yabb2/YaBB.pl?num=1192156597/0 Mark

http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/arstock-CAlegalproto.JPG

duenor
04-29-2008, 7:52 AM
If you go this route with your SU you will negate many of the benefits of the SU (fold ability, detach hi-cap mags, etc)

xr7boost
04-29-2008, 8:00 AM
Is it just me, or does that stock look like it's ready to fall off?

Why try to make a keltec something it's not? Buy an AR if you want the collapsible stock and pistol grip.

Keltec=slightly different mini-14.

shark92651
04-29-2008, 8:18 AM
1) I put in one of Kel-Tec's standard 10 round mags in to the magazine slot.
2) I then drill through the magazine slot on the rifle and continue drilling straight through the magazine while still keeping the magazine's ability to function.
3) I put a bolt through the outside of the magazine slot right through the magazine.
4) I slip a star shaped nut to the end and lock down the magazine.

This would lock the magazine in and require a tool to undo the locked magazine block.

Would this set up be CA legal?

Welcome to the forum! Keep posting and asking questions and I'm sure you will be steered in the right direction.

What you are describing sounds to me like the type of lock that would require loading through the ejection port, something which will be very difficult if not impossible to do on a Kel-Tec. The type of lock you describe could not be removed "with a tool" unless you first remove the pistol grip and any other banned features as it will not function like a bullet button.

Do you really like the look of the Kel-Tec pictured in this thread? I agree the stock looks very weak - Push up on the back of that stock and I'll bet some major stress occurs where it is bolted to the pistol grip. This reminds me of when I see a nice functional car like a Honda Civic with chrome spinner wheels and a carbon fiber spoiler bolted on the back :D

dfletcher
04-29-2008, 8:19 AM
Re the "BB" set up pictured on the KelTec - it's a fairly thin piece of aluminium and screwed in place at one point. I think it would be easy to fold that up by hand and have access to the mag release. Isn't that a problem and one that (should?) could be easily fixed by having the plate anchored by the 2nd screw.

Full Clip
04-29-2008, 9:35 AM
I'll agree: Why ruin a perfectly mediocre rifle?
(And I own a SU-16CA!)

chsk9
04-29-2008, 11:14 AM
I thought the SU-16CA's biggest draw was its ability to use legal, high cap magazines- why ruin that?

vega
04-29-2008, 2:29 PM
I thought the SU-16CA's biggest draw was its ability to use legal, high cap magazines- why ruin that?

For tacticool look.
I prefer my SU-16CA just the way it is.
I'll use my ARs for tacticool.

kitkat
05-01-2008, 1:01 AM
Thanks for all the replies.

The reason I want the pistol grip is so that I have something different than usual. Since I already own the pistol grip and the stock, my goal is to make this CA legal. There are no AR15s among my collection of firearms so I figure this will make a nice cheap replacement that I can beat upon. However, I do not want to break the law so I must find a solution to keep it legal.

I remember reading somewhere that if the rifle has a locked mag that can only be removed with a tool, then many of the evil features do not matter. Correct me if I am wrong please, but if I get the mag locked in and only able to open with a tool then is it CA legal? I thought this was true.

Thanks for the heads up on the bullet button.

redcliff
05-01-2008, 9:23 AM
Kitkat if you follow the flowchart:

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

you'll be able to tell whats legal and what isn't. It's an excellent tool and worth printing out and studying.

I have no problem with the pistol grip/fixed mag Kel-tec. What ever you like is all that matters. I'm just curious as to how sturdy the buttstock adapter is, does the butt stock flex in the adapter? It doesn't look overly strong but hard to tell without seeing one in person.

kitkat
05-01-2008, 2:23 PM
Kitkat if you follow the flowchart:

http://www.calguns.net/caawid/flowchart.pdf

you'll be able to tell whats legal and what isn't. It's an excellent tool and worth printing out and studying.

I have no problem with the pistol grip/fixed mag Kel-tec. What ever you like is all that matters. I'm just curious as to how sturdy the buttstock adapter is, does the butt stock flex in the adapter? It doesn't look overly strong but hard to tell without seeing one in person.

Thanks for the flow chart.

The pistol stock adapter is rock solid. It installs to the grip with numerous bolts and the stock adapter block rests flush against the pistol grip (its not just hanging in the air).

Now granted, it probably is not (in fact it definitely is not) as solid as an AR15 fixture but unless one plans on slamming the but to open locked doors, it will do just fine for hard impact drops. Human strength is not enough to even bend it.

I really like this rifle. It never misfires on me. I clean it minimally. In fact I down right abuse it. The EOTech on it is probably worth more than the whole package. But I gotta say, this thing really can take a beating. More importantly, every-time I pull the trigger it goes 'bang'. The fact that it is much lighter than a AR15 and fires the same ammo is a huge bonus.

LECTRIKHED
05-01-2008, 8:20 PM
A couple of points that you may want to pay attention to:


1. The Kel-Tec pistol grip stock is not for sale. The pictures you see are of the beta testers.

2. Once the pistol grip becomes available it will not be for sale to Californians, unless an out of state company buys them and resells them to CA.

3. Further in the future Kel-Tec is coming out with the SU-22. This is a 22lr version of the SU-16. Owners of this will be able to buy the pistol grip. Theoretically you could install it on a SU-16.

4. The bullet button could be easily made out of sheet metal and tin snips. You could drill a second hole in the receiver if you were worried about being able to bend it back. Also you would need a second mag release. Then you would need to take about 1/8 - 1/4 of an inch off it so that it would be flush with the receiver.


I have a SU-16CA. It's a great rifle. No need to worry about it at the range etc. and LEOs. If you want a non AR, with a pistol grip, save up for an XCR. It is a much better rifle. In the end it will only cost you a little bit more than a SU-16 with PG ($600.00 rifle and $180.00+ for the PG kit). Plus you won't have to wait until it comes out. Like many gun companies KT seems to take their time when releasing new products.

kitkat
05-01-2008, 8:38 PM
I am at the airport on my iPhone so I will keep this short.

1.) I already own the pistol grip. Kel-Tec is selling them. All I did was call and ask for it. No beta thing was mentioned.
2.) I am aware that the su22 is coming out and that the pistol grip is interchangable with the su16. However, I have seen pictures of kel-tec's California legal version of the su16 with pistol grip.

Thanks for for the extra info.

Quiet
05-01-2008, 10:59 PM
However, I have seen pictures of kel-tec's California legal version of the su16 with pistol grip.
Like this one posted on KTOG.

http://www.kel-tec-cnc.com/images/arstock-CAlegalproto.JPG
Kel-Tec factory pistol griped extending stock and bullet button installed on a SU-16CA.

iridesportbikes
05-02-2008, 3:11 AM
I am at the airport on my iPhone so I will keep this short.

1.) I already own the pistol grip. Kel-Tec is selling them. All I did was call and ask for it. No beta thing was mentioned.
2.) I am aware that the su22 is coming out and that the pistol grip is interchangable with the su16. However, I have seen pictures of kel-tec's California legal version of the su16 with pistol grip.

Thanks for for the extra info.


How much is KT selling the stock conversion for?

DedEye
05-02-2008, 3:20 AM
A big +1 in the "why" department?

zeus45c
05-02-2008, 4:08 AM
If you want a non AR, with a pistol grip, save up for an XCR. It is a much better rifle. In the end it will only cost you a little bit more than a SU-16 with PG ($600.00 rifle and $180.00+ for the PG kit).

I don't mean to jack this thread away from the Kel Tec but where can you get a Robinson Arms XCR for a little over 780.00? From what I have seen they retail for about double that. I'll buy one in a heartbeat for that much. :D

kitkat
05-13-2008, 12:02 PM
How much is KT selling the stock conversion for?

I called and ordered just the pistol grip. It was $94.95 I believe (I cant rem. exactly since it was over the phone and not an online purchase with email confirmation). But I was also told they have it with the 6 position stock for a total of $120 (but that was out of stock).

I ordered it from CA and had it shipped to VA. I brought it back with me on a trip out to VA to visit a friend.