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justincredible
04-27-2008, 4:26 PM
If i go with a monsterman grip and my high cap mags do i have to remove my bullet button?

69Mach1
04-27-2008, 4:30 PM
You mean "can I remove my bullet button with a monster man and high cap mags". Yes, as long as there isn't a flash suppressor or forward grip installed also.

If you mean you also want a high cap that's locked into the rifle, than that's illegal. 10 rounds max for fixed mag rifles.

Ech0Sierra
04-27-2008, 4:31 PM
Yes you do, even w/ a MMG, hi-cap mags with a BB are illegal.

jamesob
04-27-2008, 4:32 PM
you don't have to but you can if you want.

jamesob
04-27-2008, 4:34 PM
Yes you do, even w/ a MMG, hi-cap mags with a BB are illegal.

huh? no pistol grip so he could use hi cap if he wants. as long as there is no flash suppresor or folding stock or the rest of aw stuff
i just read that section and you guys are right you do have to remove it. that makes no sense to me but that polititions for ya.

Ech0Sierra
04-27-2008, 4:36 PM
He HAS to remove anything that fixes the mag before inserting his high-capacity magazines.

justincredible
04-27-2008, 4:37 PM
good thing i asked, thanks!

thedrickel
04-27-2008, 5:36 PM
12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall
also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to
accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine
with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length
of less than 30 inches.
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that has the capacity to accept a
detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor,
forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely
encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon
without burning his or her hand, except a slide that encloses the
barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location
outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the
capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(6) A semiautomatic shotgun that has both of the following:
(A) A folding or telescoping stock.
(B) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action
of the weapon, thumbhole stock, or vertical handgrip.
(7) A semiautomatic shotgun that has the ability to accept a
detachable magazine.
(8) Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder.

jimx
04-27-2008, 6:20 PM
He HAS to remove anything that fixes the mag before inserting his high-capacity magazines.


+ one billion
It is not only can he remove his BB. He must remove it before using high caps!!!

rix
04-27-2008, 7:00 PM
Yes! Bullet-button = fixed mag rifle.

dfletcher
04-27-2008, 8:24 PM
Just so I'm clear on this. An AR with an MMG, fully functioning magazine release and hi cap (pre ban of course) mags are legal, but an AR with an MMG, fixed magazine release (BB) and hi cap (pre ban) mags are not legal?

In theory, would fixing a (pre ban) hi cap magazine to my M1A or M1 carbine or Remington 742 also be not legal? The act of fixing a hi cap (pre ban) mag on an otherwise compliant rifle that can legally accept a detachable magazine is not legal?

I think we can agree, if this is technically not legal, that this makes no sense as a practical matter and if the intent of the AW law is to limit firepower.

mecam
04-27-2008, 8:27 PM
Just so I'm clear on this. An AR with an MMG, fully functioning magazine release and hi cap (pre ban of course) mags are legal, but an AR with an MMG, fixed magazine release (BB) and hi cap (pre ban) mags are not legal?

In theory, would fixing a (pre ban) hi cap magazine to my M1A or M1 carbine also be not legal? The act of fixing a hi cap (pre ban) mag on an otherwise compliant rifle that can legally accept a detachable magazine is not legal?

I think we can agree, if this is technically not legal, that this makes no sense as a practical matter and if the intent of the AW law is to limit firepower.


I agree. Because there are no evil features installed, it doesn't matter if you use a BB or not with HI-Caps.

hoffmang
04-27-2008, 8:35 PM
No!

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a bullet button is a non-detachable magazine rifle which leads to the inescapable conclusion that it's a fixed magazine rifle. The Penal Code also defines AWs as:

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall
also mean any of the following:
...
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine
with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

You can not place a magazine of capacity larger than 10 rounds into a rifle with a bullet button on it!

-Gene

mecam
04-27-2008, 8:47 PM
No!

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a bullet button is a non-detachable magazine rifle which leads to the inescapable conclusion that it's a fixed magazine rifle. The Penal Code also defines AWs as:


You can not place a magazine of capacity larger than 10 rounds into a rifle with a bullet button on it!

-Gene

Thanks for the clarification Gene and I thought I knew the law. :o

dfletcher
04-27-2008, 8:54 PM
No!

A semiautomatic centerfire rifle with a bullet button is a non-detachable magazine rifle which leads to the inescapable conclusion that it's a fixed magazine rifle. The Penal Code also defines AWs as:
"12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall
also mean any of the following:
...
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine
with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds."

You can not place a magazine of capacity larger than 10 rounds into a rifle with a bullet button on it!

-Gene

So this puts the state as preferring that I can readily switch out my 20 round mags as opposed to having that 20 round mag fixed to the rifle, correct? I'm trying to find a reason why they would deliberately take that approach. If we presume the state considers hi cap detachable mags as bad because they can be quickly switched out, what would be their reason for allowing the use of hi cap detach mags but not allowing the use of hi cap fixed magazines.

I hesitate to try & make sense out of these things, or was this just a mistake by the state?

hoffmang
04-27-2008, 9:05 PM
LCAV wanted to try to limit all of america to 10 rounds or less. However, they couldn't afford nor was it constitutional to take away people's pre-existing magazines. Finally, from their point of view - it would have been worse to have non detachable 30 round magazines affixed with the features.

Remember that the other side doesn't understand much about guns.

-Gene

Kishfisser
04-28-2008, 5:56 AM
Along these lines, could you leave a Prince 50 installed with the set screw removed and be okay, or would you need to go back to the original mag release.

thank in advance.

mecam
04-28-2008, 6:06 AM
Along these lines, could you leave a Prince 50 installed with the set screw removed and be okay, or would you need to go back to the original mag release.

thank in advance.

I believe once you can detach the mag without using a tool, it's no longer a maglock. That's the reason many people go with the Prince 50 so when they go out of state, it's easier to make it normal.

aplinker
04-28-2008, 6:09 AM
Along these lines, could you leave a Prince 50 installed with the set screw removed and be okay, or would you need to go back to the original mag release.

thank in advance.

If you can activate the mag release without a tool it's not a fixed magazine. You'd be just fine.

motorhead
04-28-2008, 6:46 AM
go figure. it's the law, it doesn't have to make sense. besides, if our would-be keepers understood firearms we probably wouldn't have oll's in the first place.