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tronix
04-24-2008, 11:54 PM
Hey everyone. Wondering if you guys could help me out. I'm trying to scope my Socom II. I have received some great advise from some members, but I have a couple of questions regarding the mounts. I'm thinking on getting the Aimpoint M4 plus the 3X magnifier. UCLAPLINKER advised me to get the Sage EBR rear rail from fulton armory to mount the 3X magnifier, but I'm not sure that I want to fiddle around and remove the rear clip guide (which you have to do to put that rail on). I also don't feel confident enough to machine open the rail or file it to make it fit. In other words, that sounds like a project that is way beyond my knowledge (I'm new to all this and machine opening and filing makes me nervous. I don't even have the tools for that). My question is this: can I just put on an A.R.M.S. #18 M21/14 Scope Mount without having to remove the rear clip guide and all this other machine opening and/or filing? Am I correct in thinking that the A.R.M.S. #18 M21/14 Scope Mount can just be fitted on the rifle with minimum modifications, and that it would work with Aimpoint's 3X magnifier? Thanks.

harlot
04-25-2008, 12:37 AM
Great combo, I have an M3 and 3X which I'm going to mount on a Socom 16, so I'm basically in the same boat. Unfortunately any good M1A mount is going to mount to the clip guide, I don't think there's any way around it. I've settled on the Sadlak aluminum mount, I haven't ordered it yet but I can tell you in a couple weeks how easy/hard it was to mount.

SFFRONTMAN
04-25-2008, 1:16 AM
Removing the clip guide is not really a big deal. Ive installed 5 Sadlak mounts with no problems. Just follow the directions, they are pretty concise.

aplinker
04-25-2008, 2:54 AM
You missed the part where I said you CAN'T PUT A SCOPE MOUNT ON A SOCOM II.

The attachment point for the scope mount is taken by the rail.

All of the scope mounts replace the stripper clip guide, anyways.

What I said you might have to file is the picatinny rail spacing of the Sage scope mount because the LaRue didn't fit in mine without it.

Where are you located? I know people in NorCal and SoCal who would do the install for you if you order the parts through them.

tronix
04-30-2008, 9:10 PM
You missed the part where I said you CAN'T PUT A SCOPE MOUNT ON A SOCOM II.

The attachment point for the scope mount is taken by the rail.

All of the scope mounts replace the stripper clip guide, anyways.

What I said you might have to file is the picatinny rail spacing of the Sage scope mount because the LaRue didn't fit in mine without it.

Where are you located? I know people in NorCal and SoCal who would do the install for you if you order the parts through them.

O.K. now I'm really confused. You mean to tell me that I CAN"T PUT A SCOPE MOUNT ON A SOCOM II? Do you mean that I cannot do it without removing the rear clip guide, or that it cannot be done AT ALL. How do I then put on a scope if I can't put on a scope mount? Can't I put on one of those rear rails that replace the rear clip guide, then put on a scope mount on it, and the scope on that mount? Man, I'm really lost now. Please help.

aplinker
04-30-2008, 10:10 PM
O.K. now I'm really confused. You mean to tell me that I CAN"T PUT A SCOPE MOUNT ON A SOCOM II? Do you mean that I cannot do it without removing the rear clip guide, or that it cannot be done AT ALL. How do I then put on a scope if I can't put on a scope mount? Can't I put on one of those rear rails that replace the rear clip guide, then put on a scope mount on it, and the scope on that mount? Man, I'm really lost now. Please help.

You'd have to remove both the VLTOR rail and the clip guide. The scope mounts use the bolt where the rail is mounted, as well.

tronix
04-30-2008, 10:16 PM
You'd have to remove both the VLTOR rail and the clip guide. The scope mounts use the bolt where the rail is mounted, as well.

It just keeps getting prettier and prettier, doesn't it? :shrug:I may just end up throwing on an aimpoint m4 and call it a day.

aplinker
04-30-2008, 10:20 PM
It just keeps getting prettier and prettier, doesn't it? :shrug:I may just end up throwing on an aimpoint m4 and call it a day.

You have a few options...

You can send your rifle to Springfield to get the extended top rail mounted.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/springfield/spg_32596.jpg

The Sage/KAC small rail "nubs" don't have the same height as the Springfield top rail so you can't do the mount that way.

You could use a LaRue extended eye relief mount in reverse.

You could remove the VLTOR rails and get a standard handguard.

tronix
04-30-2008, 10:35 PM
You have a few options...


You could use a LaRue extended eye relief mount in reverse.



Wow, that sounds interesting. So I could just use the LaRue extended eye relief mount in reverse? How would that work? What can I mount on it: the 3X magnifier + Aimpoint M4 set up, or just scopes such as IORs, Leupolds, or Accupoints? Thanks.

elenius
05-01-2008, 9:38 AM
You have a few options...

You can send your rifle to Springfield to get the extended top rail mounted.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/springfield/spg_32596.jpg

The Sage/KAC small rail "nubs" don't have the same height as the Springfield top rail so you can't do the mount that way.

You could use a LaRue extended eye relief mount in reverse.

You could remove the VLTOR rails and get a standard handguard.

I'll tag along; Is the Springfield extended rail any good? Compared to sadlak scope mount for instance?

Anyone have a pic of the LaRue in reverse? Sounds interesting.

I'm pretty happy with my iron sights for now, but there may be a scope for my M1A in the future.

trapshot68
05-01-2008, 10:00 AM
^^it's made by vltor, so it's decent. Only thing I don't like is it's heavy. So I went with the sadlak and mount what I want with quick detachs

aplinker
05-01-2008, 10:38 AM
I'll tag along; Is the Springfield extended rail any good? Compared to sadlak scope mount for instance?

Anyone have a pic of the LaRue in reverse? Sounds interesting.

I'm pretty happy with my iron sights for now, but there may be a scope for my M1A in the future.

I haven't used the extended rail, but it feels VERY solid and looks well designed. I would imagine it's just about ideal, given how well attached it is in the front. I'm willing to be it's more solid than the traditional mounts.

elenius
05-01-2008, 11:53 AM
I haven't used the extended rail, but it feels VERY solid and looks well designed. I would imagine it's just about ideal, given how well attached it is in the front. I'm willing to be it's more solid than the traditional mounts.

Does it clamp onto the barrel like the scout mount? Is it heavy?

uzigalil
05-01-2008, 12:00 PM
first i prefer the eotech on the socom and scout rifles

second, the ultimak rail is very good and better then the factory rail , it also sits lower making your cheek rest and optic alignment very good.

elenius
05-01-2008, 12:42 PM
According to this thread on ar15.com, the larue won't mount on the scout rail,

http://www.ar15.com/forums/topic.html?b=6&f=6&t=241015

(perhaps that was obvious to everyone else).

I did find some pics of backwards larue on a socom,

http://www.opticstalk.com/forum_posts.asp?TID=9549&PN=2

Now I'm thinking that a backwards larue mount on an ultimak rail would be the ideal setup! It would bring it down a bit lower than the socom rail. It would also let you detach the scope easily, and get access to the receiver with no scope in the way. It would be pretty pricey though.

aplinker
05-01-2008, 12:55 PM
The extended rail is a part of the VLTOR rail. I believe that's the only way Springfield will install it. The OP has a SOCOM II, so it would be a small change for him in weight (a couple ounces, tops). Adding the full rail is heavy.

I didn't realize you were considering the Scout/LaRue, but thought you were on the SOCOM, as well. Yeah, no way on a Scout rail/16 as it's far too forward.

Ultimak/LaRue would work. Ideally the LaRue would be lower, but there's not much you can do... ANY scope on the M1A pretty much requires a cheek rest, so how high that rest is matters little, if any...

uzigalil
05-01-2008, 1:03 PM
If you use a ultimak rail you shouldnt need a cheek rest

aplinker
05-01-2008, 1:08 PM
If you use a ultimak rail you shouldnt need a cheek rest

That's only true if you're using a red-dot. To clear a scope over the rail you'd be raising the line of sight up above what's comfortable (the sight height).

uzigalil
05-01-2008, 1:15 PM
True, but I thought this thread was about mount a red dot sight

aplinker
05-01-2008, 1:28 PM
Sorry, PM knowledge... he's looking at scopes now.

SOCOM Rail for red-dot + stripper clip guide rail for magnifier works. Someone posted a pic in another of the threads.

donger
05-01-2008, 1:33 PM
If you don't want to remove the rear clip guide, I believe you can use this Larue mount. Mounted backwards of course.

http://stores.homestead.com/Laruetactical/Detail.bok?no=40

ricknadine1111
05-01-2008, 7:09 PM
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn241/bellyscraper/rifleupdate005.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn241/bellyscraper/rifleupdate004.jpg
http://i306.photobucket.com/albums/nn241/bellyscraper/rifleupdate003.jpg

harlot
05-01-2008, 9:45 PM
The backwards Larue will definitely work, ejected rounds could hit the scope since the rail doesn't extend below it but that won't cause any problems for a good scope. Or you could just get an extended eye relief scope and be done with it, although that restricts the options (I wish there were more long eye relief models out there).

And Rick please stop cluttering up every thread with those pics, they aren't even relevant to this thread.

aplinker
05-01-2008, 11:11 PM
The backwards Larue will definitely work, ejected rounds could hit the scope since the rail doesn't extend below it but that won't cause any problems for a good scope. Or you could just get an extended eye relief scope and be done with it, although that restricts the options (I wish there were more long eye relief models out there).

And Rick please stop cluttering up every thread with those pics, they aren't even relevant to this thread.

It might be worth it to pick the SPR-E version. I'm pretty sure even without it the brass would have a hard time getting to the scope. If you're really worried about it, add the stripper clip rail to close the gap.

http://www.rancidkoolaid.com/images/millett2.jpg

swhatb
05-02-2008, 9:29 PM
tag

tronix
05-09-2008, 10:10 PM
I finally found a solution for my optics on the Socom II. I'm sticking with the iron sights, and I'm usnig the $1,500.00 that I was going to use on optics to buy my wife a Benelli M4 shotgun that she has been eyeing for a while. When I build my .308 caliber OLL AR 15, then I'll consider optics again since that setup gives me a lot more options for them, With it, I will be able to get what I really want with out any stupid compromises. ;) Thanks to all for your wonderful input and knowledgeable information.

USN CHIEF
05-09-2008, 10:25 PM
I finally found a solution for my optics on the Socom II. I'm sticking with the iron sights, and I'm usnig the $1,500.00 that I was going to use on optics to buy my wife a Benelli M4 shotgun that she has been eyeing for a while. When I build my .308 caliber OLL AR 15, then I'll consider optics again since that setup gives me a lot more options for them, With it, I will be able to get what I really want with out any stupid compromises. ;) Thanks to all for your wonderful input and knowledgeable information.

Oh man... I was honestly waiting for you to spend the big bucks before I commited on doing the same with my SOCOM II:( , I cannot remember where on which website it was that I saw a SOCOM II with the characteristics that you wanted, but I am still searching for it.

tronix
05-10-2008, 1:21 AM
Well, I see it here on this review. Here is the address (sorry, do not know how to add links yet)

http://springfield-armory.intermediaoutdoors.com/SPstory28.php

aplinker
05-10-2008, 2:13 AM
I think this is the one you're thinking of...

It's not the LaRue FTS though...


http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/socalhustle/leads.jpg

socalarmy
05-11-2008, 2:04 PM
which LaRue mount is this then? I need this mount to add a 3xmag to my eotech on my SOCOM II



I think this is the one you're thinking of...

It's not the LaRue FTS though...


http://i46.photobucket.com/albums/f120/socalhustle/leads.jpg

aplinker
05-11-2008, 11:30 PM
which LaRue mount is this then? I need this mount to add a 3xmag to my eotech on my SOCOM II

Why do you need that mount as opposed to one of their other magnifier mounts?

That looks like the LT-602

harlot
05-12-2008, 12:25 AM
I think what he means to ask is what base is the LT 602 attached to, I'm very curious as well. Most rail systems replace the clip guide with that special piece with a threaded hole to attach the mount the rear of the rail on. It looks like instead there is a little nub with 1 picatinny slot where the guide was, just enough to mount the LT 602 on. Could be a custom job, its a good solution for those with the socom II and no extended rail. If such a product exists I'd be very interested in trying it on my socom 16 with the M3 on the scout rail and see if they match up heightwise. It would be a lighter and simpler alternative, albeit not very versatile, to getting a traditional rail that goes across the whole receiver

aplinker
05-12-2008, 12:50 AM
Oh, that's either a Sage or KAC rear rail piece.

Since I'd mentioned those a few times before I'd assumed he was asking about the mount, not the base.

The Sage's might not be Picatinny spec as my LaRue magnifier mount wouldn't fit without widening the rails.


http://www.fulton-armory.com/SageClipGuideScopeMount-350_50.jpg
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/kac_22121.jpg

socalarmy
05-12-2008, 3:45 PM
yes I am talking about the small rail as to allow me to mount a Magnifier and where i can find it


Oh, that's either a Sage or KAC rear rail piece.

Since I'd mentioned those a few times before I'd assumed he was asking about the mount, not the base.

The Sage's might not be Picatinny spec as my LaRue magnifier mount wouldn't fit without widening the rails.


http://www.fulton-armory.com/SageClipGuideScopeMount-350_50.jpg
http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/kac_22121.jpg

harlot
05-12-2008, 9:57 PM
Oh, that's either a Sage or KAC rear rail piece.

Since I'd mentioned those a few times before I'd assumed he was asking about the mount, not the base.

The Sage's might not be Picatinny spec as my LaRue magnifier mount wouldn't fit without widening the rails.



Thanks!! Rereading the beginning of the thread you did mention it before, but when you said rear rail I thought you were talking about the rear mount of the standard fullsize rail. socal, look at the images. Both Fulton and Impact are selling them, but Impact says there are out of stock. FA is selling them for $70. I might try one but I also have a LaRue LT 602 and I'm not sure widening the rail is worth it instead of just getting a full rail. Also I'm not sure that it will be the same height as the scout mount on the front of my socom 16

socalarmy
05-13-2008, 2:20 PM
well i found it at Fulton so i am going to go with that. now all i have to do is find a decent price on a Eotech 3X

aplinker
05-13-2008, 3:00 PM
well i found it at Fulton so i am going to go with that. now all i have to do is find a decent price on a Eotech 3X

The Aimpoint 3X has longer eye relief and more options in mount. I would HIGHLY recommend it over the 3X EOTech.

socalarmy
05-13-2008, 3:18 PM
will the aimpoint 3X work with the Eotech sight?

aplinker
05-13-2008, 3:43 PM
will the aimpoint 3X work with the Eotech sight?

Yes, of course. There's nothing special about the magnifiers - they're just magnifiers.

socalarmy
05-13-2008, 5:46 PM
ok cool. if you havent noticed i am new to rifles other then my issue M-4, and i appreciate all the help

Mickey D
05-13-2008, 7:45 PM
I finally found a solution for my optics on the Socom II. I'm sticking with the iron sights, and I'm usnig the $1,500.00 that I was going to use on optics to buy my wife a Benelli M4 shotgun that she has been eyeing for a while. When I build my .308 caliber OLL AR 15, then I'll consider optics again since that setup gives me a lot more options for them, With it, I will be able to get what I really want with out any stupid compromises. ;) Thanks to all for your wonderful input and knowledgeable information.


Good idea!! Great minds think alike. Here's my duo!

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w22/MickeyD1/SocomandM4.jpg

Just added a Stag Arms Stag15 Model-1 Bought a Bushnell Elite 3200 3x9-40 scope and mount. Need to snap a pic of that combination.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w22/MickeyD1/StagARM1.jpg

tronix
05-18-2008, 6:14 PM
Good idea!! Great minds think alike. Here's my duo!

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w22/MickeyD1/SocomandM4.jpg

Just added a Stag Arms Stag15 Model-1 Bought a Bushnell Elite 3200 3x9-40 scope and mount. Need to snap a pic of that combination.

http://i172.photobucket.com/albums/w22/MickeyD1/StagARM1.jpg

Oh man. That looks just like what I will have. They are beautiful. Congrats. I'm picking up the M4 this Tuesday. Those ten-days waiting period always seem to take forever. As for the AR 15 (are they called AR 15 if they are chambered in .308?), I'm waiting for the lowers to be available and the pocket to get a little fatter. I will post pictures of my little toys later. I have a Chinese SKS (I know, I know, I should have gotten the Eastern European model, but I was 18 at the time and did not even know where to rest the buttstock of the weapon when shooting:D), the SOCOM II, Benelli M4, and an HK P2000 pistol. I've been lucky to marry my wife, who REALLY loves guns. She won't get into learning about them or how to field strip them, but she loves to collect them and shoot them. I always have to clean them by myself as she wants nothing to do with that. Sweet deal for her, right? Anyway, I don't think we are anywhere near finished adding toys to our collection. Every time we buy a firearm, we find another that we MUST have. Take care guys. (OH eventually, I will put optics on the SOCOM, just not now)

beltfedboy
06-11-2008, 2:45 AM
SOLUTION TO SOCOM II SCOPE MOUNT PROBLEM...
I have been baffled at how to get a scope mount on my Socom II. After talking with a friend at sniper country, this solution was established.

Ready every one here it is...

Purchase an ARMS #36 S-EX
This mount is made to extend the 1913 rail of an ar15 m16 flat top over the standard hand guard.

mount it on top of you existing Socom II Rail with no modifications.

Simply remove the front sight with an alen wrench to slide this rail on back wards from the direction it goes on an ar15. The candalivered rail extends over the bolt and puts the rail all the way over the rear sight. Plenty of room to put any type of optics you want on your Socom II.

Credit to Sniper Country for this Idea.

Mike aka Belt fed boy

SgtWaggoner
08-06-2009, 11:05 PM
You have a few options...

You can send your rifle to Springfield to get the extended top rail mounted.

http://www.impactguns.com/store/media/springfield/spg_32596.jpg

The Sage/KAC small rail "nubs" don't have the same height as the Springfield top rail so you can't do the mount that way.

You could use a LaRue extended eye relief mount in reverse.

You could remove the VLTOR rails and get a standard handguard.



You may have answered this question but this forum is so long...I am picking up my M1A Socom 16 saturday, brand new in the box, not the socom 2, the previous one, mine doesn't have all the rails. Mine has a little picatanny rail on the top of the grips, but you mentioned that a previous poster could send his socom 2 to Springfield to have the extended rails put on it, would they do that for a Socom 16 1st generation?

Will a regular springfield armory M14/M1A scope mount work on my rifle if they won't...It has the hole in the receiver...I am sure you know that...


Thanks,

SgtWaggoner
08-06-2009, 11:13 PM
Oh man. That looks just like what I will have. They are beautiful. Congrats. I'm picking up the M4 this Tuesday. Those ten-days waiting period always seem to take forever. As for the AR 15 (are they called AR 15 if they are chambered in .308?), I'm waiting for the lowers to be available and the pocket to get a little fatter. I will post pictures of my little toys later. I have a Chinese SKS (I know, I know, I should have gotten the Eastern European model, but I was 18 at the time and did not even know where to rest the buttstock of the weapon when shooting:D), the SOCOM II, Benelli M4, and an HK P2000 pistol. I've been lucky to marry my wife, who REALLY loves guns. She won't get into learning about them or how to field strip them, but she loves to collect them and shoot them. I always have to clean them by myself as she wants nothing to do with that. Sweet deal for her, right? Anyway, I don't think we are anywhere near finished adding toys to our collection. Every time we buy a firearm, we find another that we MUST have. Take care guys. (OH eventually, I will put optics on the SOCOM, just not now)



My M1A Socom 16 looks just like yours and I had just bought a STAG AR-15, 3 months ago...Hoo-Ah! Don't have a shotgun though. But instead of buying this Romanian WASR AK47 that I had been watching on g'broker, I saw this Socom I, for sale and the guy was willing to ship to CA. $1595 + plus shipping to my FFL, Brand New in the Box:43:, pickup day is saturday, so glad I didn't buy the AK now...But spent about $800 more than planned. But to me, I have purchased the ultimate in rifles, bar none. :o


Cheers,

skkeeter
08-07-2009, 12:27 AM
SOLUTION TO SOCOM II SCOPE MOUNT PROBLEM...
I have been baffled at how to get a scope mount on my Socom II. After talking with a friend at sniper country, this solution was established.

Ready every one here it is...

Purchase an ARMS #36 S-EX
This mount is made to extend the 1913 rail of an ar15 m16 flat top over the standard hand guard.

mount it on top of you existing Socom II Rail with no modifications.

Simply remove the front sight with an alen wrench to slide this rail on back wards from the direction it goes on an ar15. The candalivered rail extends over the bolt and puts the rail all the way over the rear sight. Plenty of room to put any type of optics you want on your Socom II.

Credit to Sniper Country for this Idea.

Mike aka Belt fed boy

You mean like this,
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq65/pablo4surf/IMGP0996.jpg

I tried this last fall and wasn't impressed. You would need a cheek riser somewhere in the vicinity of 4-5" to attain a decent cheek weld, and even then it wasn't so great. My socom II now sits with just it's irons as I gave up the quest long ago.





:mad:

aplinker
08-07-2009, 12:51 AM
You would need the full rail system to get the extended top added.

Yes, without the rail system you can use the standard scope mount.

There really is no way to scope an M1A and not need a cheek riser. The Karsten is the best choice, unless you want to upgrade the stock.

Really, though, the scouts and socoms are best with irons, an RDS, or a scout scope.

You may have answered this question but this forum is so long...I am picking up my M1A Socom 16 saturday, brand new in the box, not the socom 2, the previous one, mine doesn't have all the rails. Mine has a little picatanny rail on the top of the grips, but you mentioned that a previous poster could send his socom 2 to Springfield to have the extended rails put on it, would they do that for a Socom 16 1st generation?

Will a regular springfield armory M14/M1A scope mount work on my rifle if they won't...It has the hole in the receiver...I am sure you know that...


Thanks,

Crazed_SS
08-07-2009, 9:28 AM
You would need the full rail system to get the extended top added.

Yes, without the rail system you can use the standard scope mount.

There really is no way to scope an M1A and not need a cheek riser. The Karsten is the best choice, unless you want to upgrade the stock.

Really, though, the scouts and socoms are best with irons, an RDS, or a scout scope.

Agreed.

I think the SOCOM needs a red dot. The front sight post is just too huge. I took my SOCOM out along with my buddy's Scout awhile ago and at 100yds w/ iron sights I couldnt hit anything with the SOCOM. With the Scout's iron sights, 2" groups were no problem though.

Putting the Bushnell Holosight on the SOCOM really made it a lot more satisfying :)

ava8harrierusmc1
03-04-2010, 9:51 PM
Ok you can call springfield and they will tell you to send the rifle in and they will put aqn extended rail on for you for $545.00 the thing is Springfield has a contract with Troy the guys who make the rail and Sprield is the only guys who is allwed to sell the not even Troy can sell the extended rail so don't ask them to do so I know I tried to they told me to contact Springfield.


CAS-14/Cluster Rail handguard
We offer the installation of the standard for $474 and the extended for $544.
Trisha Kuster Customer Service Representative
tkuster@springfield-armory.com
1-800-680-6866

aplinker
03-05-2010, 7:30 AM
I'm pretty sure you mean VLTOR. ;)

Ok you can call springfield and they will tell you to send the rifle in and they will put aqn extended rail on for you for $545.00 the thing is Springfield has a contract with Troy the guys who make the rail and Sprield is the only guys who is allwed to sell the not even Troy can sell the extended rail so don't ask them to do so I know I tried to they told me to contact Springfield.


CAS-14/Cluster Rail handguard
We offer the installation of the standard for $474 and the extended for $544.
Trisha Kuster Customer Service Representative
tkuster@springfield-armory.com
1-800-680-6866

The DRis
03-05-2010, 9:26 AM
Wow. $544? Maybe my memory is bad. Or they lowered the price. I thought it was like $800 when I called. I've hears rumera over on M14TFL that Socom II's with the extended rail have issues extracting. My guess was due to the brass deflecting off the rail back into the bolt?any validity to those rumers?

Also I've been looking into that rear mount for the stripper clip as well. Was thinking of a NF 1-4x... Although that Larue reversed is a really good idea. How's the eye relief?

socomIInato
03-05-2010, 9:43 AM
You mean like this,
http://i434.photobucket.com/albums/qq65/pablo4surf/IMGP0996.jpg

I tried this last fall and wasn't impressed. You would need a cheek riser somewhere in the vicinity of 4-5" to attain a decent cheek weld, and even then it wasn't so great. My socom II now sits with just it's irons as I gave up the quest long ago.





:mad:

Sadly I have to agree.:( Gone back at this point to iron sights. Took my Eo tech and magn. and put them on my FM para. I had purchased a tripower for my SA socomII, It now sits on my AR.