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Mike-4
04-24-2008, 5:50 PM
Is there a legal AK-74 (5.45 x 39mm) clone available for sale in CA? I see the dealers selling the AK-47 clones such as Lancasters, Henderson's, etc, but there all in 7.62 x 39mm. Anyone have one that they can give an opinion on?

regards,

fireblast713
04-24-2008, 5:57 PM
search for a WASR-2

hoozaru
04-24-2008, 6:08 PM
the best are VEPR 5.45x39 and Arsenal 5.45 cal,they were probably gone by last year, next in line would be bulgarian AK74 parts kit which disappeared earlier this year.
if you dont want a WASR-2, maybe try a polish tantal in 5.45x39 or RPK-74 before those are gone too.

Rem1492
04-24-2008, 6:21 PM
http://www.gunbroker.com/Auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=98062060
this is yoru best best, A SAR-2 is the best, a WASR-2 might have problems to work out but will do ok.

if you can afford 8-900 for a Bulgarian AK (they were $400 just a year ago) in the 5.45 go for it.

the Tantals are made with US barrels if it is from centruy, they are a .224 barrel which is NOT milspec and as such a lot of people have keyholing at even short ranges from the rifling NOT touching the bullets.

hoozaru
04-24-2008, 6:27 PM
have you considered a Saiga 223?

Lateralus
04-24-2008, 9:57 PM
have you thought about building your own?

I built mine off an ORF kit and NDS-2SF. Turned out fantastic.

RedDawn
04-24-2008, 10:04 PM
Check out Ammo Brothers in Cerritos.
http://www.ammobros.com/
They will usually have a couple for you to take a closer look at.
Search the vendors on this forum for deals and availability.

Mike-4
04-25-2008, 1:37 AM
I thought about the Saiga's in 5.56 but want a true, or should I say, a more traditional AK variant. Just afraid I'll miss the boat entirely if I don't act soon. Thanks for all the info. Keep em coming!

aplinker
04-25-2008, 2:59 AM
I thought about the Saiga's in 5.56 but want a true, or should I say, a more traditional AK variant. Just afraid I'll miss the boat entirely if I don't act soon. Thanks for all the info. Keep em coming!

Saiga conversions (to be "true" AKs) are available in .223

hoozaru
04-25-2008, 7:48 AM
saigas are built in Izmash Russia, the same factory that makes all authentic AKs. IIRC, they manufacture AK 223 for Spetsnaz or some other special forces. Just love the hunting stock or convert it :D.

Ak47owner
04-25-2008, 10:45 AM
Stay with the 5.45x39 round instead of the 223 or 5.56 round the 5.45 is more powerfull, here is some proof for the non believers: http://youtube.com/watch?v=mqaeX2KigSc
the bullets are also pretty cheep iirc i remember seeing 1,080 rounds for $120-140
i built mine off a Nds-Sf2 reciever and orf parts kit.

Flogger23m
04-25-2008, 4:10 PM
I would also like to ask some questions.

1) Do any stores in the Bay Area, especially around Livermore, sell and kits or pre-built AK-74 variants?

2) Which is overall cheaper, buying a pre-built or a kit and receiver?

3) When buying a pre-built, would I have to buy the six USA made parts if it was imported , or would the pre-builts already have that done for me?

4) From what I have seen online, Bulgarians are out of my price range ($800 max, preferably $400-550). Is the next best option the Tantals? What would be next after that?

5) How much worse are the Romanians? Is the price difference worth it?

6) Does Saiga make 5.45s?


And no, I am not interested in a .223 AK.

aplinker
04-25-2008, 4:42 PM
I would also like to ask some questions.

1) Do any stores in the Bay Area, especially around Livermore, sell and kits or pre-built AK-74 variants?
Irvington arms is your best shot, but they won't "carry" them. I've yet to see anyone who has a 5.45 AK in stock. Order and pay the transfer fee
2) Which is overall cheaper, buying a pre-built or a kit and receiver?
Right now the AK world is in massive flux. All the parts kits are drying up and prices are headed through the roof. You might be able to swing a rifle for less, until they adjust their pricing.
3) When buying a pre-built, would I have to buy the six USA made parts if it was imported , or would the pre-builts already have that done for me?
Pre-builts will already have compliance parts installed (or the manufacturer would be hauled in for 922(r)
6) Does Saiga make 5.45s?
Not for US import

And no, I am not interested in a .223 AK.
in red

Flogger23m
04-25-2008, 5:08 PM
Thanks for the quick reply. :)

And if I have to order one, which site would be the best that ships to CA that has AK-74s?

Rem1492
04-25-2008, 10:14 PM
there are some sponsors on the site, henderson arms did an order a while ago.

A 74 is the way to go for sure! gunbroker sellers can ship to CA if you tell them to take the grip off.

I am a Mig23 fan as well :)

Flogger23m
04-25-2008, 10:31 PM
there are some sponsors on the site, henderson arms did an order a while ago.

A 74 is the way to go for sure! gunbroker sellers can ship to CA if you tell them to take the grip off.

I am a Mig23 fan as well :)

I'm a fan of most military aircraft, but the MiG-23 is definitely one of the more interesting ones.

Anyways, I'm interested in the -74 because of the lower recoil, I have weak arms. :p Plus the low price of the ammo.

So heres another question. Is 5.45 ammo often found in stores, or would I have to order that as well?

aplinker
04-25-2008, 10:46 PM
The problem with 5.45 ammo is that:

1.) not sold in stores
2.) it's all magnetic

If you shoot at a range that has rules about magnetic projectiles, you're SOL

FlyingPen
04-25-2008, 11:17 PM
Stay with the 5.45x39 round instead of the 223 or 5.56 round the 5.45 is more powerfull, here is some proof for the non believers: http://youtube.com/watch?v=mqaeX2KigSc


I think M193 is renown for lack of interior barrier penetration so I don't really see the point of this test.

Virtually any kind of ammo, with the exception of light bird shot, will easily penetrate typical wall construction (two layers of wall-board separated by 3 to 4 inches of space). Testing has shown, however, that after penetrating a typical interior wall, a 5.56mm projectile will have less wounding potential than most common handgun or buckshot loads. This is true because the low mass of the bullet sheds velocity quickly, and velocity is its key wounding component. This doesn't mean that 5.56mm ammo isn't still potentially deadly, but that the severity of an injury is likely to be less from a 5.56mm bullet than from a 9mm, .40, .45, or #00 buckshot round. What is important is not the degree to which these rounds penetrate, but their "ex post lethality" or their lethality AFTER encountering wallboard or other cover/concealment.

The difference is so significant that the FBI and other ballistic experts recommend that law enforcement transition to handguns to "dig suspects out" of cover because of the superior penetration and wounding ability of handgun rounds over 5.56 or .223.

This, along with the increasing number of lawsuits from "friendly fire" submachine gun victims and 5.56mm's ability to penetrate ballistic vests, are some of the reasons that many SWAT teams are transitioning away from the 9mm MP5 and selecting 5.56mm carbines instead.

This is understandable given the longer barrel length and therefore higher velocity and consequently higher penetration of handgun rounds in submachine guns.

If our experience on the forums are accurate, most shot gunners and submachine gun fans receive this news poorly. It does seem counterintuitive since 5.56mm is a "high powered round." All we can say to this is that the FBI FTU fired hundreds of rounds through carefully constructed wall sections and then into gel. Ignore these results at your own peril.

Flogger23m
04-26-2008, 9:48 AM
The problem with 5.45 ammo is that:

1.) not sold in stores
2.) it's all magnetic

If you shoot at a range that has rules about magnetic projectiles, you're SOL

Thanks for the info. If 5.45 is not sold in stores I'll reconsider buying a -74.

cackinthebox
04-26-2008, 11:18 AM
a .223 AK really does give you the best of both worlds, ammo's a plenty

Addax
04-26-2008, 11:35 PM
I would recommend the following:

Pick up a 74 Kit
Pick up a Nodak 74 receiver
Have one built by a qualified builder
5.45 is plentiful, but most of the Russian stuff is steel core, so local ranges like Angeles do not allow steel core ammo.

----OR-----

Depending on budget you can find a Romanian Wasr in 5.45 or 5.56 or if you can spend the $$ you can pick up an Arsenal SAM 5 (AK47 Milled Receiver in 5.56) best AK type rifles on the market (along with the Vepr).

PM me for more info...

I am known as an AK lover in these parts...:43:

Rem1492
04-27-2008, 5:11 AM
for those considering 5.45, the reason I love it is because of the very low recoil that is just like the 5.56.

The other attraction is that 5.56 is
.38-44cents a round shipped right now whereas
5.45 mil spec is 9cents a round shippped to my doorstep.

so when you buy 1000rds for your AR, I buy 4000 of 74 for the same price. Thats a lot of blastin' to be done at the range and with several 74 types, I take a lot of coworkers to the range and dont have to wince at them burning up mags of ammo.

More 74 ammo is hitting the shores right now. Just stay away from the Century built Tantals.

motorhead
04-27-2008, 6:58 AM
tantal kit is the cheapest route. there are still some out there. orf still has bulgy 74 kits. cheap 5.45 is drying up. stock up now if you go this route.

Addax
04-27-2008, 9:37 AM
Tantal Kits require a little more work at the barrel end if you want to go with the AK74 style muzzlebrake since the barrel protrudes out approx. 2 inches from the front sight base. An AK builder can easily cut this down, recrown and tap the front end of the barrel so you can install a AK74 style muzzle brake (14x1mm left hand thread size).

If you decide not to get this extra work down, you can find a US mfg. Tantal muzzle brake (which I carry in stock)....

The original muzzlebrake on the Tantal is also the Grenade Launching Spigot, so you have to change this out with either a new US mfg'd Tantal muzzle brake (which made over diameter from the original Tantal muzzle brake so you cannot fit a Rifle Grenade on it).

hoozaru
04-27-2008, 9:49 AM
bulgarian AK74 parts kit with fixed stock is history.
Ohio Rapid Fire still have some with side-folding stock, either replace with a fixed stock rear trunion (if could find one) or pine the S-Folding buttstock and go with fixed mag.

Flogger23m
04-27-2008, 11:07 AM
The reason I am not interested in a .223 AK is two reasons.

1) As already mentioned, it costs a lot more.

2) I don't want an AK that uses American/NATO ammo, like .223 or .308.



So overall, the cheapest AK-74 clone/variant I can get would be the WASR 5.45? Is the quality difference between the Blug. and Tantals compared with the WASRs very noticeable? I've been interested in the Tantals because they seem to be the next best -74 for the price.

cackinthebox
04-27-2008, 11:19 AM
Atlantic Firearms has a bunch of AK74 variants, some made from bulgarian kits, some polish, check them out

cackinthebox
04-27-2008, 11:22 AM
the gun exchange in san jose has a few WASR-2 5.45. $550 ready to shoot.

I would also like to ask some questions.

1) Do any stores in the Bay Area, especially around Livermore, sell and kits or pre-built AK-74 variants?

2) Which is overall cheaper, buying a pre-built or a kit and receiver?

3) When buying a pre-built, would I have to buy the six USA made parts if it was imported , or would the pre-builts already have that done for me?

4) From what I have seen online, Bulgarians are out of my price range ($800 max, preferably $400-550). Is the next best option the Tantals? What would be next after that?

5) How much worse are the Romanians? Is the price difference worth it?

6) Does Saiga make 5.45s?


And no, I am not interested in a .223 AK.

Flogger23m
04-27-2008, 5:59 PM
Atlantic Firearms has a bunch of AK74 variants, some made from bulgarian kits, some polish, check them out

I though Atlantic Firearms didn't ship those rifles to CA. Thanks for the info.


And those WSAR-2s, do they come with a Raddlock (included in the $550 price) or something similar?

Dump1567
04-27-2008, 6:04 PM
Ade's Gun Shop in Orange had a real nice gripless AK74 for sale last Monday. Don't know if it's still their?

RedDawn
04-27-2008, 11:17 PM
+1 Ade's, nice shop, nice people.
Can get really crowded though.:D

Addax
04-28-2008, 1:18 AM
Oh, I would not say that the fixed stock Bulgarian AK74 kits are history yet... :43:




bulgarian AK74 parts kit with fixed stock is history.
Ohio Rapid Fire still have some with side-folding stock, either replace with a fixed stock rear trunion (if could find one) or pine the S-Folding buttstock and go with fixed mag.