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View Full Version : National College Empty Holster Protest Week - so ban empty holsters!


Liberty1
04-23-2008, 8:53 PM
http://www.unionleader.com/article.aspx?headline=Gun+rights+protest+puts+heat +on+UNH+prof&articleId=c53b45fb-faed-4dd2-8669-950ec16a481c


Gun rights protest puts heat on UNH prof
By CLYNTON NAMUO
New Hampshire Union Leader Correspondent
23 hours, 45 minutes ago


DURHAM – A University of New Hampshire student who was told by a professor that he could not wear an empty gun holster in her class as part of a protest responded by posting the correspondence on the Internet, which earned the professor several angry e-mail from strangers.

Senior Matt Ham, 22, is taking part in a nationwide demonstration this week in which participants wear empty gun holsters as a way to push for college students with permits to carry a concealed weapon to be able to bring guns onto campus. Those in favor of the move say that just one armed student could have prevented the massacre at Virginia Tech last year.

The protest is being sponsored by the group Students for Concealed Carry on Campus.

Ham, an active National Guardsman who works at Pease Air National Guard Base, said he told each of his four professors about the demonstration beforehand and asked to speak briefly with fellow students to explain what he was doing. All but one granted his request, while a fourth, sociology teacher Priscilla Reinertsen, sent him an email that specifically forbade him from wearing a holster.

Ham posted her e-mail, along with her email address, on a Facebook group sponsored by Students for Concealed Carry that has more than 28,000 members and added the message: "please keep it respectful for the sake of my grade."

As a result of the post, Reinertsen received several angry messages from strangers across the country criticizing her for trying to block the protest.

Reinertsen said she passed the emails along to the administration and allowed Ham to wear the holster in class because it was his right, but she did not let him speak.

"Those e-mails were belligerent," she said. "They weren't threatening, but they were angry. They were unpleasant."

UNH Deputy Police Chief Paul Dean said nothing in the emails constituted a threat, so Ham broke no laws or rules in posting Reinertsen's address, but he described the move as being "in poor taste" and "counterproductive."

"It's someone's desperate attempt to get their message out there and not be silenced," Dean said.

This is not the first time a university employee who moved against Students for Concealed Carry found his information on the Facebook group, according to Franklin Pierce University student Adam Broussard who, like Ham, is participating in the holster protest this week.

Broussard, 20, who studies at Franklin Pierce's Keene campus, said he saw a similar posting from a fellow student who was running into trouble with the demonstration on his campus. That post included the administrator's e-mail address as well, he said.

"Everything's public information; it all just depends on whether anyone wants to do it or not," Broussard said.

Ham said he did not intend for any negative messages to be sent to Reinertsen and was simply asking for support from fellow protestors.

"There's no need for that," he said of negative messages. "There's enough good points on both sides of this debate not to have to slander people, whether you agree or disagree."

Despite the hubbub over the e-mails, Ham said he has received scant attention for his protest this week. He said that to his knowledge he is the only student at UNH participating in the protest and received a permit from UNH police to do so. Police said Ham was the only one who had signed up to carry the empty holster.

Deputy Chief Dean said that although students are allowed to wear empty holsters on campus as a means of expression, guns are expressly forbidden by university policy. Students can register guns with UNH police and store them at the department, but cannot keep them on campus or in dorms. He said he would recommend expulsion for any student caught with a gun on campus.

Dean, who described himself as a lifelong gun user and a member of the National Rifle Association, said students with guns could create confusion in a school shooting situation because officers are trained to quickly find and take down shooters.

"If I enter a classroom and there are two people with a gun, who do you think is going to die," he asked. "Both people."

UNH officials work to prevent violent incidents before they happen by picking up on signs forewarning trouble, Dean said. He said such preventive efforts are much more effective at stopping school shootings than arming students. Despite the work, he said, a foolproof plan to prevent such shootings remains elusive.

"I just know that more guns aren't the answer," Dean said.

C.G.
04-23-2008, 9:11 PM
What I'd like to know is how the teacher can forbid him to wear a holster or keep him from speaking in the class.:confused:

JeffM
04-23-2008, 9:19 PM
Classrooms are for learning.

I'd be pretty pissed off if I missed out on information relevant to an upcoming test because another student wanted to spout off, even if it is pro-gun.

Wear the holster, fine, but don't disrupt the learning environment.

People need to know how to pick their battles.

dfletcher
04-23-2008, 9:21 PM
What I'd like to know is how the teacher can forbid him to wear a holster or keep him from speaking in the class.:confused:


Actually, I believe the he is a she.

Again, gun control tends to get a fairly chilly reception in New Hampshire.

tophatjones
04-23-2008, 9:31 PM
Chief Deputy Dean sounds like a real tool: "I just know more guns aren't the answer."

C.G.
04-23-2008, 10:02 PM
Classrooms are for learning.

I'd be pretty pissed off if I missed out on information relevant to an upcoming test because another student wanted to spout off, even if it is pro-gun.

Wear the holster, fine, but don't disrupt the learning environment.

People need to know how to pick their battles.

There was no mention in the article about him talking about anything gun related, it just said she would not allow him to speak. If he had anything to say about the subject at hand, how is that helping the learning process.

C.G.
04-23-2008, 10:03 PM
Actually, I believe the he is a she.


According to the article, the teacher is a she and the student is a he. I was referring to the student.

pnkssbtz
04-23-2008, 10:49 PM
There was no mention in the article about him talking about anything gun related, it just said she would not allow him to speak. If he had anything to say about the subject at hand, how is that helping the learning process.

Ham, an active National Guardsman who works at Pease Air National Guard Base, said he told each of his four professors about the demonstration beforehand and asked to speak briefly with fellow students to explain what he was doing.

Teacher was out of line for telling him he couldn't wear an empty holster.

Teacher was in line for declining to allow him to interrupt class time with his propaganda.



However, the fact that the Teacher is "outraged" that people would be irate with her for refusing to allow the student to even wear an empty holster is humorous.

Wouldn't she be outraged if she was refused to attend class if she wore a certain style of clothing item?

Matt C
04-23-2008, 10:53 PM
Classrooms are for learning.

I'd be pretty pissed off if I missed out on information relevant to an upcoming test because another student wanted to spout off, even if it is pro-gun.

Wear the holster, fine, but don't disrupt the learning environment.

People need to know how to pick their battles.

Well it is a sociology class... I have taken it a few times and it's basically socialism 101.

pullnshoot25
04-23-2008, 10:59 PM
Classrooms are for learning.

I'd be pretty pissed off if I missed out on information relevant to an upcoming test because another student wanted to spout off, even if it is pro-gun.

Wear the holster, fine, but don't disrupt the learning environment.

People need to know how to pick their battles.

And he was teaching people about what is going on.

pullnshoot25
04-23-2008, 11:00 PM
I've worn my holster this week on campus and I didn't have any issues. A couple guys asked me about it and I informed them of what I was doing but that was the extent of it.

DedEye
04-24-2008, 12:04 AM
Teacher was out of line for telling him he couldn't wear an empty holster.

Teacher was in line for declining to allow him to interrupt class time with his propaganda.



However, the fact that the Teacher is "outraged" that people would be irate with her for refusing to allow the student to even wear an empty holster is humorous.

Wouldn't she be outraged if she was refused to attend class if she wore a certain style of clothing item?

Agreed. Funny how the student's effective use of Facebook to post his teacher's information is characterized as a "desperate attempt."

Bizcuits
04-24-2008, 2:31 AM
Classrooms are for learning.

I'd be pretty pissed off if I missed out on information relevant to an upcoming test because another student wanted to spout off, even if it is pro-gun.

Wear the holster, fine, but don't disrupt the learning environment.

People need to know how to pick their battles.

+1

If this kids gets to speak on his pro-gun topic, then so will every other kid who has an Anti-Gun, Anti-Bush, Anti-whatever speech...

johnny_22
04-24-2008, 9:14 AM
This is settled law back then, with the SCOTUS deciding that unless the clothing disrupts the class, it is allowed. The holster would easily fit into the armband class of clothing.

Preventing him from talking about the subject during class time would be her right.

C.G.
04-24-2008, 9:18 AM
Quote:
Ham, an active National Guardsman who works at Pease Air National Guard Base, said he told each of his four professors about the demonstration beforehand and asked to speak briefly with fellow students to explain what he was doing.

Teacher was in line for declining to allow him to interrupt class time with his propaganda.

My bad, missed that somehow, thanks. In that case, I do agree with your statement.

Quake0
04-24-2008, 11:05 AM
Well it is a sociology class... I have taken it a few times and it's basically socialism 101.

I still remember the time that sociology teacher started preaching Carol Marx to us in your office.

razorx
04-24-2008, 11:42 AM
Chief Dean (Master mall ninja has spoken)

"If I enter a classroom and there are two people with a gun, who do you think is going to die," he asked. "Both people."

I wonder how many shootouts he has personally been responsible for ending? Has he even taken the most basic training in gun fighting? What a complete and utter moronic statement to make. Average gun fight over in two-three seconds once it starts. By the time he gets there (only minutes away), there will only be one or none standing, not two.

Of course, if I am a campus officer, I am certainly willing to sacrifice the lives of 30 or so people to be killed just so that I can be sure who the bad guy is when I make my grand entrance. After all, I certainly do not want there to be a chance of me being responsible for a wrongful death, it would be very inconveniencing personally. Much better to remove any possibility of an error in judgement by not allowing the situation to exist.

Maybe Dean has the right view of it after all...

aileron
04-25-2008, 6:30 AM
Agreed. Funny how the student's effective use of Facebook to post his teacher's information is characterized as a "desperate attempt."

My favorite part of the article. Sad that they couldn't keep opinion out of it with that statement. He did the right thing, because she effectively blocked his protest in a sociology class no less. There is a lesson for the students. +1 for him, more impact for the quick witted in the class. Also I agree with everyone else, he has no right to disrupt class to spout off his views. Even though I agree with them, your there to learn.



Of course, if I am a campus officer, I am certainly willing to sacrifice the lives of 30 or so people to be killed just so that I can be sure who the bad guy is when I make my grand entrance. After all, I certainly do not want there to be a chance of me being responsible for a wrongful death, it would be very inconveniencing personally. Much better to remove any possibility of an error in judgement by not allowing the situation to exist.

Maybe Dean has the right view of it after all...

That is their current stance, they just don't put it as eloquently as you.

outersquare
04-25-2008, 7:21 AM
"If I enter a classroom and there are two people with a gun, who do you think is going to die," he asked. "Both people."

nice police work, shoot first, ask questions later :mad:

Decoligny
04-25-2008, 8:15 AM
I still remember the time that sociology teacher started preaching Carol Marx to us in your office.

Is that Groucho's sister?:D

Glock22Fan
04-25-2008, 8:28 AM
"If I enter a classroom and there are two people with a gun, who do you think is going to die," he asked. "Both people."


He must be a better gun fighter than many Police Officers, I think.

AngelDecoys
04-25-2008, 8:30 AM
Well it is a sociology class... I have taken it a few times and it's basically socialism 101.

That's pretty much what I took away from the one class in sociology I took almost 20 years ago. Guess things never change. Are those classes still populated with lots of pretty girls?

I recall one discussion on prison over-population and remedies. I raised my hand, and told the class "bullets are cheap". The intake of breath around the room was something else. Brought a smile to the Professor's face as that class often resembled an echo chamber of the leftist, socialist, mantra. Made for an interesting day.

SCOTUS has already ruled arm bands, or other such displays are under freedom of expression (so long as they don't cause disruption or are drug related).

No problem wearing an empty holster. Teacher was right not to allow time in class to be used for explanation. That being said, Prof could have offered the lectern after class ended for those interested.

Matt C
04-25-2008, 11:17 AM
Met my current GF in that class lol.

That's pretty much what I took away from the one class in sociology I took almost 20 years ago. Guess things never change. Are those classes still populated with lots of pretty girls?

I recall one discussion on prison over-population and remedies. I raised my hand, and told the class "bullets are cheap". The intake of breath around the room was something else. Brought a smile to the Professor's face as that class often resembled an echo chamber of the leftist, socialist, mantra. Made for an interesting day.

SCOTUS has already ruled arm bands, or other such displays are under freedom of expression (so long as they don't cause disruption or are drug related).

No problem wearing an empty holster. Teacher was right not to allow time in class to be used for explanation. That being said, Prof could have offered the lectern after class ended for those interested.