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Rugerman
04-23-2008, 4:00 PM
I have a friend who has a registered semi-auto AK47 with registered pre-ban 30 round magazines.


This is from my friend:
Also, yes if it is registered as an assault weapon it is legal to posses and use 30 round magazines without a magazine locking device.


Is the above statement true? I know that new OLL builds must have a BB or similar temporary magazine device if you plan to use pre-ban 10+ round magazines, as they cannot be permanently attached to the rifle as stated under 12276.1 (2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

My question is, is it legal to use pre-ban 10+ round magazines in a registered pre-ban assault weapon that does not have a permanent/temporary magazine pinning device.

elSquid
04-23-2008, 4:02 PM
...with registered pre-ban 30 round magazines...

How does one register magazines?

-- Michael

Rugerman
04-23-2008, 4:04 PM
How does one register magazines?

-- Michael



My bad, just noticed that.

5150Marcelo
04-23-2008, 4:04 PM
you dont, you subscribe to them! :rofl::laugh:

rkt88edmo
04-23-2008, 4:07 PM
A CA registered AW has no restrictions on it as far as AW evil features are concerned.

Eric_Oh
04-23-2008, 4:09 PM
you dont, you subscribe to them! :rofl::laugh:

i see that i'm not the only one with a lame sense of humor. lol.

Mitch
04-23-2008, 4:16 PM
My question is, is it legal to use pre-ban 10+ round magazines in a registered pre-ban assault weapon that does not have a permanent/temporary magazine pinning device.

Of course. That's the point of having a registered assault weapon.

mymonkeyman
04-23-2008, 4:21 PM
People need to read the statute. The real question is, what statute could it violate? It can't violate the large-capacity magazine statute because that only bans manufacturing, importing, and transferring magazines, not possession or use.

Under the AW statutes, it's either an AW or not. It's either registered or not. If it's a registered AW then it doesn't matter what you do with it absent an SBS/SBR/MG violation.

redcliff
04-23-2008, 4:29 PM
You can even add a FAR-50 .50 bmg upper on a registerred AR-15 AW :)

bohoki
04-23-2008, 5:09 PM
You can even add a FAR-50 .50 bmg upper on a registerred AR-15 AW :)

i'm not to sure about that


but i registered a dpms vrs with my 50 bmg upper

i sure didn't want to batter my precious

Hunter
04-23-2008, 5:17 PM
..........This is from my friend:
Also, yes if it is registered as an assault weapon it is legal to posses and use 30 round magazines without a magazine locking device.


Is the above statement true?

YES IT IS. And since it is a Registered AW, it can use the locking magazine device...not that it would make any sense to do so.


..........
I know that new OLL builds must have a BB or similar temporary magazine device if you plan to use pre-ban 10+ round magazines,.......... :eek::eek::eek:

THIS IS NOT TRUE!

The whole point of the BB or similar device is to NOT have a detachable magazine. If the magazine is not detachable, then it CANNOT be over 10 rnds!

If you want to use magazines in a OLL that are +10 rnds, they need to be detachable. DONOT use a Bullet Button, Maglok, or any other device. Instead use a MMG to get away from AW territory and use the +10 rnds mags all you want.

redcliff
04-23-2008, 5:31 PM
i'm not to sure about that


but i registered a dpms vrs with my 50 bmg upper

i sure didn't want to batter my precious


I understand about your "precious" and havent orderred my FAR-50 yet for the same reason but heres some info:

"With all this confusion surrounding California's firearm laws, it is no wonder that many have overlooked a nuance that benefits registered "assault weapon" owners.
In California, there are three categories of "assault weapons" under California law. The first category is firearms listed on the original Roberti-Roos "assault weapons" list (Penal Code section 12276, subds (a), (b), and (c)). The second category of "assault weapons" is AK and AR-15 series (Penal Code sections 12276 (e) and (f)) rifles that have been added to the list of "assault weapons" by the California Department of Justice ("DOJ"). The third category of "assault weapons" is defined by specific generic characteristics (PC section 12276.1, SB 23). The "assault weapon" registration periods have ended and DOJ is no longer accepting "assault weapon" registration forms. But for those who properly registered their "assault weapons" during the registration period, an opportunity to convert their firearms into .50 BMG caliber rifles in California still remains.

Since January 1, 2005, the .50 Caliber BMG Regulation Act of 2004 regulates the ".50 BMG Rifles" in essentially the same manner as "assault weapons." The law generally prohibits the manufacturing, importation, sale and possession of ".50 BMG Rifles." A ".50 BMG Rifle" should not be confused with a rifle that can fire a .50 BMG Cartridge. California specifically defines ".50 BMG Rifle" as "a centerfire rifle that can fire a .50 BMG cartridge and is not already an 'assault weapon' pursuant to Penal Code sections 12276, 12276.1, or 12276.5 PC, or a machinegun as defined by Penal Code section 12200." (See Penal Code section 12278.) (These sections of law may be accessed on the DOJ's website: http://ag.ca.gov/firearms.) Thus, by definition an "assault weapon" cannot be a ".50 BMG Rifle."

What does this mean? Owners of properly "registered" AR-15 series "assault weapons" can configure their registered lower receiver with a .50 BMG upper receiver without being subject to the .50 BMG Rifle restrictions. It is important to note, however, that all "assault weapon" restrictions still apply. "

ar15barrels
04-23-2008, 5:35 PM
is it legal to use pre-ban 10+ round magazines in a registered pre-ban assault weapon
that does not have a permanent/temporary magazine pinning device.

Ladies and gentlemen, please take notice.
This is the new breed of gun owner (not only rugerman specifically, but everyone just like him).
He does not even realize that before the AW laws, that pistol grips, flash suppressors, collapsable stocks, open magwells and large capacity magazines were the normal deal.
He does not feel the pain of NOT having these features because he has never been able to have these features.
This unfortunate situation is caused by the anti-gun people incrementally winning. :mad:

elSquid
04-23-2008, 6:04 PM
He does not even realize that before the AW laws, that pistol grips, flash suppressors, collapsable stocks, open magwells and large capacity magazines were the normal deal.
He does not feel the pain of NOT having these features because he has never been able to have these features.

Well, he is a Rugerman, after all: that explains why he isn't used to pistol grips, flash suppressors, collapsible stocks, and large capacity magazines. [1]

:)

-- Michael

[1] Fine, AC556 then. Sheesh. :rolleyes:

bwiese
04-23-2008, 6:38 PM
Registered AWs do not have any restrictions regarding mag use or typical AW features.

If you have legit hicap mags you can use them in your registered AW.

A Bullet Button or Prince50 or other mag lock device is designed to ensure a firearm does NOT have a 'detachable magazine' so as to NOT be an assault weapon.

The only feature restrictions on Registered AWs:
even though a grenade launcher is an evil feature, and evil features
are allowed on reg'd AWs, the G/L is also intrinsically a "DD" (destructive
device) and is illegal on its own. Don't have one, even separated from the
gun - perfect example is the G/L on a Yugo M59/66.

a Registered AW cannot of course be an SBR, SBS, MG - that's a wholly
separate area of the law. Owning a Reg'd AW doesn't mean it's full auto, etc.

CSACANNONEER
04-23-2008, 8:31 PM
i'm not to sure about that


but i registered a dpms vrs with my 50 bmg upper

i sure didn't want to batter my precious

Uh, maybe I just don't understand something. How would a 50BMG upper "batter" your lower? I don't have much experience with FAR-50s. But, I have a bit of experience with 50BMG uppers that have been around for a while and I've never had or even heard of an upper damaging a lower. If you're ready to take the 50 plunge, don't forget to look at look at ALS or Ferret uppers. Both are proven to be capable of sub .6moa groups at 1000 yards.

ohsmily
04-23-2008, 11:09 PM
I have a friend who has a registered semi-auto AK47 with registered pre-ban 30 round magazines.


This is from my friend:
Also, yes if it is registered as an assault weapon it is legal to posses and use 30 round magazines without a magazine locking device.


Is the above statement true? I know that new OLL builds must have a BB or similar temporary magazine device if you plan to use pre-ban 10+ round magazines, as they cannot be permanently attached to the rifle as stated under 12276.1 (2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

My question is, is it legal to use pre-ban 10+ round magazines in a registered pre-ban assault weapon that does not have a permanent/temporary magazine pinning device.

*sigh* this was a painful post to read, especially this part:
I know that new OLL builds must have a BB or similar temporary magazine device if you plan to use pre-ban 10+ round magazines, as they cannot be permanently attached to the rifle as stated under 12276.1 (2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
You are so turned around it is kind of scary. READ THE NOOB THREADS and the FLOW CHART.
Going by what you "know" you would be creating an assault weapon by using a 10+ capacity magazine with a bullet button or other magazine fixing device. You can use 10+ round magazines in ANY gun you own as long as the magazine is NOT fixed and otherwise complies with 12276

Rugerman
04-24-2008, 6:03 PM
I'm talking about using PRE-BAN high capacity magazines in a BB build.

I understand that you cannot use 10+ round magazines if they were bought after 2001.

ar15barrels
04-24-2008, 6:17 PM
I'm talking about using PRE-BAN high capacity magazines in a BB build.

That would be a big sick bird.
Illegal.

I understand that you cannot use 10+ round magazines if they were bought after 2001.

It appears that you don't understand that you cannot use high capacity magazines in a BB build. ;)

Harrison_Bergeron
04-24-2008, 6:32 PM
Being a laymen myself I might be able to word it right for another laymen.

BBs, or bullet buttons, are intended to re-classify a detachable magazine rifle into a fixed magazine rifle. SB23 says that fixed magazine rifles, excluding registered assault weapons, cannot have a fixed magazine capable of accepting more than 10 rounds, ever, no exceptions.

Also, there is no such thing as a registered pre-ban high capacity magazine, the only rules on magazines that accept more than 10 rounds are that they cannot be sold, manufactured, or imported, possession is specifically not regulated.

If you want to use a high capacity magazine on a semi-automatic, center fire rifle, the rifle must not have a fixed magazine and cannot have any evil features as described by SB23. This is commonly accomplished with the use of a riviera stock, a U-15 stock, or a Monster Man grip, depending on the type of rifle.

So, how is my CalGun Fu, did I pass?

DedEye
04-24-2008, 6:33 PM
I'm talking about using PRE-BAN high capacity magazines in a BB build.

I understand that you cannot use 10+ round magazines if they were bought after 2001.

You don't seem to understand at all...

As others said, read the flowchart.

M. Sage
04-24-2008, 6:38 PM
I have a friend who has a registered semi-auto AK47 with registered pre-ban 30 round magazines.

Can't register mags...

This is from my friend:
Also, yes if it is registered as an assault weapon it is legal to posses and use 30 round magazines without a magazine locking device.

You can have a "featureless" off-list rifle and use legally possessed 10+ round mags in it. Featureless rifles can use detachable magazines.

Is the above statement true?

Yep.

I know that new OLL builds must have a BB or similar temporary magazine device if you plan to use pre-ban 10+ round magazines, as they cannot be permanently attached to the rifle as stated under 12276.1 (2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

Woah woah! Stop right there! If you ahve a bullet button or similar magazine locking device you must not insert a magazine that holds more than 10 rounds into the rifle! A bullet button or other mag locking device removes the capability to accept a detachable magazine. A fixed magazine in a semi-auto centerfire rifle must not hold more than 10 rounds! If you do this, the rifle becomes an assault weapon.

My question is, is it legal to use pre-ban 10+ round magazines in a registered pre-ban assault weapon that does not have a permanent/temporary magazine pinning device.

Yes. It's only legal to use >10 round magazines in a rifle that does not have a magazine locking device!

Again: Do not use a >10 round magazine in any rifle that has a magazine locking device!!!!

CSACANNONEER
04-24-2008, 6:53 PM
I'm talking about using PRE-BAN high capacity magazines in a BB build.

I understand that you cannot use 10+ round magazines if they were bought after 2001.

I really would suggest rereading the laws and understanding them before you end up in jail!

The reason that most people use BBs is so that they can build a rifle with evil features and won't be considered an AW. If you use a BB on a gun with any evil feature and then install a +10 round magazine fixed in it, you will be manufacturing an AW! I could care less how long you owned the mag.

If you want to use +10 round mags in Ca., instead of building an evil feature build with a BB, you need to build a featureless rifle and you don't even need a BB on it. I have an AK an an AR with MM grips and detachable mags that are both completely legal to run normal +10 round mags in.

IF YOU STILL DON'T UNDERSTAND THIS, PLEASE GET HELP! I suggest that you post your location and maybe someone local can meet you somewhere and teach you about Ca. laws.

ar15barrels
04-24-2008, 6:54 PM
If you want to use a high capacity magazine on a semi-automatic, center fire rifle, the rifle must not be capable of accepting a detachable magazine and cannot have any evil features as described by SB23. This is commonly accomplished with the use of a riviera stock, a U-15 stock, or a Monster Man grip, depending on the type of rifle.

So, how is my CalGun Fu, did I pass?

Failed on the last paragraph.

It should read more like this:
If you want to use detatchable or large capacity magazines on a centerfire rifle, the rifle must not have any evil features as described by SB23.

Harrison_Bergeron
04-24-2008, 7:01 PM
Failed on the last paragraph.

It should read more like this:
If you want to use detatchable or large capacity magazines on a centerfire rifle, the rifle must not have any evil features as described by SB23.

Damnit, that was just a typo, I proof read it three time too. Edited it to:

If you want to use a high capacity magazine on a semi-automatic, center fire rifle, the rifle must not have a fixed magazine and cannot have any evil features as described by SB23. This is commonly accomplished with the use of a riviera stock, a U-15 stock, or a Monster Man grip, depending on the type of rifle.

rkt88edmo
04-24-2008, 11:36 PM
Damnit, that was just a typo, I proof read it three time too. Edited it to:


better proof read it three time more!

ohsmily
04-25-2008, 10:03 AM
I'm talking about using PRE-BAN high capacity magazines in a BB build.

I understand that you cannot use 10+ round magazines if they were bought after 2001.
No, you don't understand.
:banghead:

You have been here since 2005 and have over 300 posts and still can't make the easy distinction between a fixed magazine build and a featureless detachable magazine build. You don't get it. What you suggest above would be manufacturing an assault weapon.

Read the n00b threads and the flow chart like the new members do.

P.S. the cut-off for magazines was 12/31/99, so on 1/1/2000 it was illegal to import/manufacture, etc high capacity magazines, not 2001.

AJAX22
04-25-2008, 10:09 AM
This thread makes my head hurt.

how can you get that turned around on the laws?

Harrison_Bergeron
04-25-2008, 12:05 PM
better proof read it three time more!

Are you saying it is still wrong? How?

rkt88edmo
04-25-2008, 12:21 PM
Are you saying it is still wrong? How?


No, was just making fun of the fact that you said "three time" instead of "three times" :p

Harrison_Bergeron
04-25-2008, 12:41 PM
Yeah, it took me about 10 minutes to figure that out, you know it's not polite to make fun of the mentally slow.

ar15barrels
04-25-2008, 3:33 PM
you know it's not polite to make fun of the mentally slow.

It might not be funny, but it is fun. ;)

Yankee Clipper
04-25-2008, 5:03 PM
Are you saying it is still wrong? How?

My problem Harrison_Bergeron is this part of your statement: "the rifle must not have a fixed magazine". I haven't seen any laws that precludes having a fixed magazine on any firearm - it wouldn't make sense. But other than that you-done-good.

ohsmily
04-25-2008, 5:20 PM
My problem Harrison_Bergeron is this part of your statement: "the rifle must not have a fixed magazine". I haven't seen any laws that precludes having a fixed magazine on any firearm - it wouldn't make sense. But other than that you-done-good.

Nice work taking his post out of context. :rolleyes: His original statement essentially said that if the magazine holds more than 10 rounds, it can't have a fixed magazine. He is correct. I am not sure why only pulled out that small section without using the whole sentence; maybe it was to stay in keeping with the painfulness of this thread.

This is the original statement he made:
If you want to use a high capacity magazine on a semi-automatic, center fire rifle, the rifle must not have a fixed magazine and cannot have any evil features as described by SB23.

Harrison_Bergeron
04-25-2008, 6:59 PM
My problem Harrison_Bergeron is this part of your statement: "the rifle must not have a fixed magazine". I haven't seen any laws that precludes having a fixed magazine on any firearm - it wouldn't make sense. But other than that you-done-good.

12276.1. (a) Notwithstanding Section 12276, "assault weapon" shall also mean any of the following:
(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has the capacity to accept a detachable magazine and any one of the following:
(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.
(B) A thumbhole stock.
(C) A folding or telescoping stock.
(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.
(E) A flash suppressor.
(F) A forward pistol grip.
(2) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.
(3) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle that has an overall length of less than 30 inches.

Roccobro
04-25-2008, 7:00 PM
My problem Harrison_Bergeron is this part of your statement: "the rifle must not have a fixed magazine". I haven't seen any laws that precludes having a fixed magazine on any firearm - it wouldn't make sense. But other than that you-done-good.


Nice work taking his post out of context. :rolleyes: His original statement essentially said that if the magazine holds more than 10 rounds, it can't have a fixed magazine. He is correct. I am not sure why only pulled out that small section without using the whole sentence; maybe it was to stay in keeping with the painfulness of this thread.


I see what Yankee Clipper was trying to say. The short quip he used was to point out the fallacy that was trying to say that that I CANNOT put a fixed magazine on my AW. That is FALSE I can do almost ANYTHING regarding mags to my registered AW's- even if that means putting a BB or maglock on it (for whatever asinine reason I might have)

But you also forgot that he said:
But other than that you-done-good.


I think the OP has a handle on the issues now. Small mix-ups in wording can make a HUGE impact on one's freedom.

Justin

Harrison_Bergeron
04-25-2008, 7:17 PM
In the first paragraph I specifically stated that the rules do not apply to registered AWs.

I don't mind pointing out actual mistakes, like rkt88 did, it is important that you be able to breeze through the explanation, I imagine that if a LEO trying to take me in for an OLL caught the initial mistake I made in my explanation I would be SOL, but don't make them up.

OP hasn't come back yet.