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View Full Version : WHAT gun is Patty holding??


JPglee1
04-22-2008, 9:42 PM
http://www.geocities.com/spootnek/Eilbacher/TheOrdealOfPattyHearst.jpg

WHAT is the gun Mrs. Hearst is holding in her famous SLA propaganda photo??

Now I kinda know my way around rifles, but this one just isnt jumping out at me...

My guess is a M1 carbine cut down with a 15rd magazine...BUT Im not sure.

SOOO who knows what she's holding??


Anyone?



J

dwtt
04-22-2008, 9:51 PM
That looks like the german ww2 submachine gun, who's designation I forgot. MP-40 or something like that.

DWarner
04-22-2008, 9:55 PM
I think it is an FMP....

Knight
04-22-2008, 9:55 PM
Apparently it's a full-auto, cut-down M1 Carbine, at least according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Patty_Hearst.jpg). I have my doubts, but it's hard to tell with the quality of the picture.

JPglee1
04-22-2008, 10:04 PM
http://www.vn-amps.com.ar/sig510/images/pFMK3.jpg
FMK-3 Submachine gun

http://www.philaord.com/images/products/MP40A-mast.jpg
MP-40

http://www.precisionairsoft.com/usrimage/cat1030.jpg
M1 carbine "enforcer" pistol (airsoft, but looks correct)



I don't think the gun she has is any of these 3... if its an M1 carbine, it would have to be an M3 type with the scope mount, or some kinda aftermarket scope... also the mag looks WAY too long to be an M1 Carbine 15rd mag and M1C 30rd mags have a dogleg in them like AR mags do...


Any other ideas? Surely one of you old farts that was around when it happened should know hahaha (I love all the Calguns elders so settle down)


J

oaklander
04-22-2008, 10:06 PM
Apparently it's a full-auto, cut-down M1 Carbine, at least according to Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Patty_Hearst.jpg). I have my doubts, but it's hard to tell with the quality of the picture.

The mag would be curved, I think. . .

NeoWeird
04-22-2008, 10:10 PM
It's not an M1 carbine, you can tell because an M1 does not have a projected mag well and the top of the receiver, althought hard to make out, is NOT that of an M1 carbine.

It's also not a modified Mp40, because the mag well housing is quite different in deisgn.

I thought I recognized it, but the gun I THOUGHT it was wasn't quite right. This Star looks like a pretty good match and the folded stock looks fairly close to what she is holding in front. It just appears that it is missing the rear sight but appears to have a small ridge/hump where the rear sight WOULD be, so it was probably removed to accomodate the scope. You'll also note the shroud, venting holes, and barrel tip seem to match the photo.

http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg53-e.htm

ETA: Found one I could link.
http://www.star-firearms.com/firearms/guns/smg62/images/z70b-large.gif

Beatone
04-22-2008, 10:11 PM
http://www.geocities.com/spootnek/Eilbacher/TheOrdealOfPattyHearst.jpg

Is it the same one she used in the bank robbery?

JPglee1
04-22-2008, 10:15 PM
http://world.guns.ru/smg/smg53-e.htm

The Star Z62 submachine gun was developed by STAR Bonifacio Echeverria SA company of Spain circa 1962,

Hrmm..what year did the SLA stuff go down...seems to me it would be hard to acquire a relatively new, spanish submachine gun in the US... but I could be wrong. Criminals DO have a way of getting oddball stuff....

J

P.S. it does look closest so far :D

oaklander
04-22-2008, 10:23 PM
Beretta PM 12 ???

http://world.guns.ru/smg/beretta_pm12-1.jpg

NeoWeird
04-22-2008, 10:28 PM
According to Wikipedia, SLA was around from 1973-1975. The Star 70B entered into service in the early 1970s. I'd say 3-5 years is plenty of time for one to find it's way into anyone's hands, especially when it is coming from a country reltiavely known for it's corruption in the government.

harlot
04-22-2008, 10:50 PM
I see the resemblance but I don't think its either of those, look at the trigger guard. In the picture you can clearly see light reflecting off the front of a curved piece of metal which is not connected to the receiver, while it is on both the Beretta and the Spanish thing. That is one odd gun she's got.

RedDawn
04-22-2008, 10:54 PM
If anything, I'm leaning towards the Beretta M12

chsk9
04-22-2008, 11:21 PM
Is that a scope mounted on top? Tacticool 70's stlyle :cool2:

http://www.geocities.com/spootnek/Eilbacher/TheOrdealOfPattyHearst.jpg

WHAT is the gun Mrs. Hearst is holding in her famous SLA propaganda photo??

Now I kinda know my way around rifles, but this one just isnt jumping out at me...

My guess is a M1 carbine cut down with a 15rd magazine...BUT Im not sure.

SOOO who knows what she's holding??


Anyone?



J

randy
04-23-2008, 4:02 AM
Are you sure that's her? I thought she was uglier than the photo. I did a google for patty hurst pictures that doesn't look like her. I think what you are looking at is Cinematic immunity. I think that is an actress and a Hollywood gun.

Waingro
04-23-2008, 4:47 AM
Are you sure that's her? I thought she was uglier than the photo. I did a google for patty hurst pictures that doesn't look like her. I think what you are looking at is Cinematic immunity. I think that is an actress and a Hollywood gun.

I am leaning with this guy just because the CalGuns community can identify ANY gun in less then 5 min and normally within 3 posts. This has gone on for 2 pages.

rgs1975
04-23-2008, 4:55 AM
That is not Patty Hearst. No idea who it is and no idea what the gun is, or even if it is a real gun. See below for the real Patty Hearst photo.

http://img403.imageshack.us/img403/9387/hearst1hi2.jpg

Booshanky
04-23-2008, 4:58 AM
I lightened the photo up a bit.

http://lh3.ggpht.com/matich/SA8yNkV1caI/AAAAAAAATxo/aPm8qw2OSzk/s800/hearst.jpg

hellaguy
04-23-2008, 5:05 AM
Is that a flashlight?

viras
04-23-2008, 5:53 AM
Those are different women, and they're both "70's hot". Ya gotta love the beret!

EDIT: Many google searches later, I find that her daughter is also pretty hot:

http://www.tifaux.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/young%20patty.jpg

But no info about the infamous rifle...

pc_city
04-23-2008, 5:55 AM
That's Lisa Eilbacher from a TV movie the "Ordeal Of Patty Hearst".
http://www.geocities.com/spootnek/Eilbacher/Filmography.html
http://www.geocities.com/spootnek/Eilbacher/TheOrdealOfPattyHearst.jpg

TregoMark
04-23-2008, 9:29 AM
Then what is the REAL Patty Hearst holding on the Newsweek cover?

JPglee1
04-23-2008, 11:08 AM
Then what is the REAL Patty Hearst holding on the Newsweek cover?


Here's the newsweek cover:

http://www.boingboing.net/images/_blog_images_hearst1.jpg
http://www.geocities.com/spootnek/Eilbacher/TheOrdealOfPattyHearst.jpg

I guess the first pic I posted IS NOT Patty, but damn it looks like the SAME gun.....

EITHER WAY....WTF kinda gun is that chick holding??? lol :D


J

viras
04-23-2008, 11:22 AM
OK, so I was talking to one of the older shooters I work with, and he said that based on the pic of the Newsweek Cover (a.k.a. the real Patty Hearst), she is NOT holding an M1. The reason he gave is because the magazine does not look like it's big enough to hold 30-06 rounds. He said "I mean, look at it - she's a fairly small woman, and there's no way that's a 30-06 magazine - compare it to the size of her hand" - to which I said "look at the angle she's holding it at"... He's still not convinced it's an M1...

Anyhow, after reading some more, I found this in a TIME Magazine article (CLICK ME (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,913456,00.html)):

Then, as city police cars closed off both ends of the block, some agents hurried into the apartment; while others, guns drawn, burst into a few of the neighboring houses to look unsuccessfully for Patty Hearst. In the Harrises' apartment, the FBI found 40 pounds of black explosive powder, three .30-cal., fully automatic carbines, two shotguns, two pistols and a substantial amount of ammunition.

So... the plot thickens...

JPglee1
04-23-2008, 11:36 AM
. In the Harrises' apartment, the FBI found 40 pounds of black explosive powder, three .30-cal., fully automatic carbines, two shotguns, two pistols and a substantial amount of ammunition. [/I]

So... the plot thickens...

Well in the Hybernia Bank robbery, Patty and 2 others are 100% for sure holding/using M1 Carbine-type weapons (meaning they might be Enforcers, or cut down M1s)

Im positive they DID have M1Cs, but she is NOT holding one of THOSE in the propaganda photo....

Also there is no way its an M1 Garand... (1) M1s dont use magazines, (2) its way too small to be an M1G.... There is also no possibility of it being an M14 as the mag is way too small for .308....


Any more guesses??? lol


J

Hoop
04-23-2008, 11:39 AM
The more I screw around in photoshop the more I think it's an m1 carbine, cut down with a pair of ~15 (12 rounders or whatever the hell they were) round mags taped together and a scope stuck on top.

mothergreen
04-23-2008, 12:25 PM
I have no idea theres a few smgs on world guns that sort of look like it but nothing definitive. its definatly not a carbine or anything else american.

Heatseeker
04-23-2008, 12:37 PM
You can't tell in the above photo, but when I bumped into Patty Hearst(I was erecting a press for the SF Chronicle & Examiner when she and a bunch of suits 'toured' the new plant) in the late 80's, she was quite the porker. Maybe she's found Jenny Craig since then.

Isn't it kind of odd that both the real Patty and the actress Patty are posing with the same weapon and nobody can figure out what it is? Maybe we should call the production studio :D !

Hoop
04-23-2008, 12:40 PM
Isn't it kind of odd that both the real Patty and the actress Patty are posing with the same weapon and nobody can figure out what it is? Maybe we should call the production studio :D !

It's pretty obvious they aren't the same gun.

The real pic is a sawed-off M1 carbine with a couple mags together, made-for-tv movie pic is probably a prop gun with **** taped on it to add to the cool factor.

voodoo
04-23-2008, 12:49 PM
I read an article on it in an old out-of-print book called the Poor Man's Armorer. I believe it was a .223 bullpup design manufactured by Bushmaster, and predecessor to the current M17S.

Californio
04-23-2008, 1:02 PM
That's Lisa Eilbacher from a TV movie the "Ordeal Of Patty Hearst".
http://www.geocities.com/spootnek/Eilbacher/Filmography.html
http://www.geocities.com/spootnek/Eilbacher/TheOrdealOfPattyHearst.jpg

Hey I know Lisa and Bradford (husband), small world:)

Bucc
04-23-2008, 1:03 PM
Those are different women, and they're both "70's hot". Ya gotta love the beret!

EDIT: Many google searches later, I find that her daughter is also pretty hot:

http://www.tifaux.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/young%20patty.jpg

But no info about the infamous rifle...

I dunno where you got that Kristen Bell is Patty Hearst's daughter but she isn't. link (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristen_Bell)

Kirstens mothers name is Loreli and she was born in Michigan about the same time Patty Hearst's sentence was being commuted by Jimmy Carter.

The thing in the original photo was a construct for a publicity pic for a movie.
It was made of several different firearms and fabricated bits.
The gun she used in the robbery was a cut down carbine.
I'm not sure if it's the same as the real publicity photo the SLA used her for.

viras
04-23-2008, 1:10 PM
I dunno where you got that Kristen Bell is Patty Hearst's daughter but she isn't. link (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristen_Bell)

Kirstens mothers name is Loreli and she was born in Michigan about the same time Patty Hearst's sentence was being commuted by Jimmy Carter.

The thing in the original photo was a construct for a publicity pic for a movie.
It was made of several different firearms and fabricated bits.
The gun she used in the robbery was a cut down carbine.
I'm not sure if it's the same as the real publicity photo the SLA used her for.

Ah, my google-fu is weak. :( My bad. The article I got that pic from was in Italian. Upon re-reading it, I found that Hearst played someones mother in the TV show that Bell stars in... Damn BabelFish and my poor translation skills.

Lon Moer
04-23-2008, 1:30 PM
Bank robbery was clearly(box magazine) a shorty M1Carbine.

http://www.famouspictures.org/mag/images/thumb/0/02/PattyHearstRobsBank.jpg/280px-PattyHearstRobsBank.jpg

ohsmily
04-23-2008, 1:54 PM
OK, so I was talking to one of the older shooters I work with, and he said that based on the pic of the Newsweek Cover (a.k.a. the real Patty Hearst), she is NOT holding an M1. The reason he gave is because the magazine does not look like it's big enough to hold 30-06 rounds. He said "I mean, look at it - she's a fairly small woman, and there's no way that's a 30-06 magazine - compare it to the size of her hand" - to which I said "look at the angle she's holding it at"... He's still not convinced it's an M1...

Anyhow, after reading some more, I found this in a TIME Magazine article (CLICK ME (http://www.time.com/time/magazine/printout/0,8816,913456,00.html)):

Then, as city police cars closed off both ends of the block, some agents hurried into the apartment; while others, guns drawn, burst into a few of the neighboring houses to look unsuccessfully for Patty Hearst. In the Harrises' apartment, the FBI found 40 pounds of black explosive powder, three .30-cal., fully automatic carbines, two shotguns, two pistols and a substantial amount of ammunition.

So... the plot thickens...

You are confused: M1 Carbine (caliber: 30 carbine) is a VERY different rifle than an M1 Garand (caliber: 30-06).

tgriffin
04-23-2008, 2:12 PM
This has been driving me nuts all day. I can't find a gun that looks like that. Grrr.

What we know about the gun in picture:

Rear pistol grip
Most likely a rimless, straight-cased pistol caliber carbine (long straight mag): 9mm, .45, .30 are the most likely suspects.

Anyhow, interesting historical note... when the SLA robbed the Crocker National Bank in Carichael, the stolen license plate on the getaway car was from my half-brothers car. He still gets calls from FBI every once in awhile, last time that I know of was about 5 years ago. He was attending UCD when the plate was stolen.

EDIT: just found this pic: http://www.leadpipeposters.com/images/0351.jpg

I would say that pretty diffinitively shows the original gun is indeed a shorty M1 carbine.

viras
04-23-2008, 3:05 PM
You are confused: M1 Carbine (caliber: 30 carbine) is a VERY different rifle than an M1 Garand (caliber: 30-06).

Yes yes, that has been pointed out to me in a few PM's. Sheesh :p MY BAD! I know nothing about older rifles.

Thanks though. Without you guys always correcting me, I'd be lost. :D I learned something new!

hawk1
04-23-2008, 3:14 PM
Anyhow, interesting historical note... when the SLA robbed the Crocker National Bank in Carichael, the stolen license plate on the getaway car was from my half-brothers car. He still gets calls from FBI every once in awhile, last time that I know of was about 5 years ago. He was attending UCD when the plate was stolen.



FBI calls? Are they still trying to solve that case?...:p

Cool story though.

tgriffin
04-23-2008, 3:44 PM
FBI calls? Are they still trying to solve that case?...:p

Cool story though.

I have no idea what the calls were about, I actually got one of the calls, and it was a female agent asking for my half-brother Robert. I told her he hadnt lived with us in years. I had no idea at the time what was going on, so I told her I didnt have his number handy. Took her info, called my brother and he just laughed about it and called her back. :confused:

RedDawn
04-23-2008, 5:55 PM
Still no concensus on the pictured firearm?

cope113
04-23-2008, 6:20 PM
is that a forward hand grip folded forward?

RedDawn
04-23-2008, 6:22 PM
is that a forward hand grip folded forward?

It does look like one.

quagmiles
04-23-2008, 6:32 PM
Very interesting topic but whats really importaint is, Would you hit it?

daskraut
04-23-2008, 6:36 PM
I would love to just stare at that actress chick for a while....nekkid of course, then dinner time!. That actress gal is a babe, kinda karen allen cute without the E.T. eyespread thing...

JPglee1
04-23-2008, 6:44 PM
I would love to just stare at that actress chick for a while....nekkid of course, then dinner time!. That actress gal is a babe, kinda karen allen cute without the E.T. eyespread thing...

Well different strokes for different folks I suppose...lol

I think Patty was OK lookin back in her youth, a bit portly now tho haha.

Well I guess the gun IS an M1 Carbine...I still can't say for sure 100% but I know the bank robbery weapon was a Carbine so it makes sense the pic would also be a carbine.

Cool thread IMHO..."stump the Calgunners" only took 5 pages haha :D


J

mothergreen
04-23-2008, 6:45 PM
from the op rod handle and rear sight yeah it is but what bothers me is the front profile doesn't look right.

jacques
04-23-2008, 7:20 PM
I this the only girls with gun photo USN Chief didn't find and Post?:eek:

pc_city
04-23-2008, 7:37 PM
I this the only girls with gun photo USN Chief didn't find and Post?:eek:

Did he miss this one?
http://i23.photobucket.com/albums/b381/cntrtop/LittleGirlWithMachineGun.jpg]

dwtt
04-23-2008, 8:16 PM
The thing in the original photo was a construct for a publicity pic for a movie.
It was made of several different firearms and fabricated bits.
The gun she used in the robbery was a cut down carbine.
I'm not sure if it's the same as the real publicity photo the SLA used her for.
So Bucc is saying the gun in the original picture JP posted wasn't a real production gun, just something made up for a publicity shot. Now it makes sense why none of us can ID it.
That's my excuse and I'm taking it. :D

jacques
04-23-2008, 8:22 PM
Did he miss this one?


Leave that poor girl out of that vile thread!!

So then in the real picture, what gun is that?

RedDawn
04-23-2008, 8:25 PM
So Bucc is saying the gun in the original picture JP posted wasn't a real production gun, just something made up for a publicity shot. Now it makes sense why none of us can ID it.
That's my excuse and I'm taking it. :D

Ditto
:shifty:

JagerTroop
04-23-2008, 8:37 PM
I dunno where you got that Kristen Bell is Patty Hearst's daughter but she isn't. link (http://http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kristen_Bell)

Kirstens mothers name is Loreli and she was born in Michigan about the same time Patty Hearst's sentence was being commuted by Jimmy Carter.

The thing in the original photo was a construct for a publicity pic for a movie.
It was made of several different firearms and fabricated bits.
The gun she used in the robbery was a cut down carbine.
I'm not sure if it's the same as the real publicity photo the SLA used her for.

Here is Patty's niece Amanda... Hot!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r189/SiksPak88/amandahearst.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r189/SiksPak88/amandahearst2.jpg

Link to story (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-11/19/xinsrc_38211041914304532704116.jpg&imgrefurl=http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-11/19/content_7104983_6.htm&h=340&w=280&sz=29&hl=en&start=37&tbnid=85Dx6p9xG3mHcM:&tbnh=119&tbnw=98&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpatty%2Bhearst%26start%3D36%26gbv%3D2 %26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN)

Ugly Dwarf
04-23-2008, 9:58 PM
So Bucc is saying the gun in the original picture JP posted wasn't a real production gun, just something made up for a publicity shot. Now it makes sense why none of us can ID it.
That's my excuse and I'm taking it. :D

Warren Zevon said it was a Thompson SMG.

RedDawn
04-23-2008, 10:19 PM
Here is Patty's niece Amanda... Hot!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r189/SiksPak88/amandahearst.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r189/SiksPak88/amandahearst2.jpg

Link to story (http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-11/19/xinsrc_38211041914304532704116.jpg&imgrefurl=http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2007-11/19/content_7104983_6.htm&h=340&w=280&sz=29&hl=en&start=37&tbnid=85Dx6p9xG3mHcM:&tbnh=119&tbnw=98&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dpatty%2Bhearst%26start%3D36%26gbv%3D2 %26ndsp%3D18%26hl%3Den%26sa%3DN)

Wow! Agreed, she is definitely HOT!

crob241
04-24-2008, 3:38 AM
Patty had a m2, willy wolf used a m3 and a bar.

Paradiddle
04-24-2008, 9:38 AM
Warren Zevon said it was a Thompson SMG.

Roland the headless Thompson gunner..... :D

redcliff
04-24-2008, 9:57 AM
Warren Zevon said it was a Thompson SMG.

Rear grip location and magazine well are wrong for a Thompson. Thompsons have the receiver extending to the rear of the pistol grip 6 or 7" and there is no mag well to speak of, just a cut in the frame.

Im inclined to think it was just a cobbed together prop gun.

Heatseeker
04-24-2008, 11:18 AM
Here is Patty's niece Amanda... Hot!

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r189/SiksPak88/amandahearst.jpg

http://i144.photobucket.com/albums/r189/SiksPak88/amandahearst2.jpg


Hot and $loaded$! Hearst is one of the largest privately owned media conglomerates(not to mention their mining and huge property interests) in the world! And it all started right here in NorCal...

Heatseeker
04-24-2008, 11:22 AM
It's pretty obvious they aren't the same gun.

The real pic is a sawed-off M1 carbine with a couple mags together, made-for-tv movie pic is probably a prop gun with **** taped on it to add to the cool factor.

My mistake :confused: . The magazine cover photo is dark to the point that I couldn't make out much detail, so both guns appeared similar to me. But then again, I am vision challenged :D .

LECTRIKHED
04-24-2008, 5:36 PM
Modified m1-carbine.