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stag1500
04-22-2008, 10:23 AM
This article paints a very accurate picture of the elitist attitude among the rulers of our state.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/greenhut/greenhut54.html

Out of the Way, Peasants

by Steven Greenhut

DIGG THIS

Readers have been shocked to learn that California has about 1 million citizens who are literally above the law. Members of this group, as a Register front-page article April 6 detailed, can drive their cars as fast as they choose. They can drink a six-pack of beer at a bar and then get behind the wheel and weave their way home. They can zoom in and out of traffic, run traffic lights, roll through stop signs and ignore school crossing zones. They can ride on toll roads for free, park in illegal spots and drive on High Occupancy Vehicle lanes even if they have no passengers in the car with them. Chances are they will never have to pay a fine or get a traffic citation.

They are a special class of people, basically exempt from the laws the rest of us must follow. This isn't a small number, either. Drivers of one of every 22 California cars and light trucks on the road have this special immunity, which should cause our government leaders and law enforcement authorities – always eager to protect us from any perceived problem – to demand a fix to this real public safety threat. Think about what this means: a million drivers who can endanger our lives with near impunity. I can hear it now: "There ought to be a law!"

But instead of pushing for a fix, most legislators are trying to expand the program so that even more people can have the special "we're above the law" license plates. What gives? The answer is sickeningly obvious. The Special People are those who work for law enforcement or other government agencies or are their family members.

Now you get it. Government officials are zealous about dealing with problems caused by average citizens, but they are far less interested in dealing with the excesses of fellow members of the privileged, government elite. There are rules for "us" and rules for "them" – us being the subjects and them being the rulers. Feel free to pound the table in anger now!

How did we get to this sorry place?

In 1978, the state started a program to protect the confidentiality of peace officers so members of the public couldn't find their addresses on Department of Motor Vehicle databases. Over the years, the program has been expanded from one set of government workers to another. It now applies to corrections employees, social workers, nonsworn personnel who work in juvenile halls, parole officers, parking enforcement employees and on and on. Even county supervisors, city attorneys and city council members can be exempt from the state's traffic laws.

Even after the Register article exposed this outrageous situation, an Assembly committee voted to expand this special privilege to firefighters, animal control officers and veterinarians. Assemblyman Mike Duvall, R-Yorba Linda, explained his vote to the Register in this way: "I don't want to say no to the firefighters and veterinarians that are doing these things that need to be protected." That attitude explains why our society is moving in this direction. No one – not even a self-proclaimed believer in limited government – will stand up to groups of workers who have become as demanding, self-righteous and arrogant as those found in the French bureaucracy.

Americans used to be better schooled in the views of our nation's founders, who believed that government should be strictly limited and highly accountable. The Constitution, after all, is designed to protect the People from their rulers. These days, and especially after 9/11, Americans have become compliant and dangerously obedient to the authorities. Hence, they keep getting rolled. You know something's amiss when museum security guards, court workers, DMV employees and retired parking officers are part of the special-license caste.

The special-plate program works this way: The addresses are kept secret, so toll-road operators and parking enforcement cannot easily track down violators. The Transportation Corridor Agencies, which runs the toll roads, does not legally have access to the confidential addresses. The Orange County Transportation Authority has to go through additional hoops to get the addresses and admittedly doesn't pursue toll violations too zealously.

In one instance reported by the Register, one couple had racked up almost $35,000 in penalties from OCTA for driving on toll roads without paying. Regarding moving violations, when police see these special plates they either don't pull the drivers over or they don't ticket them if they do. The cops call this "professional courtesy." Officers know that those with the special plates are "their own," and officers are quite open about refusing to ticket other members of the Brotherhood. They scratch each other's back. "It's a courtesy, law enforcement to law enforcement," Sgt. Tom Lee of the San Francisco Police Department, told the Register. "We let it go."

Well, such "courtesies" are functions of police states, not free societies. In a free society, the government serves the people. No one is supposed to be above the law, not even animal control officers and their spouses. Assemblyman Todd Spitzer, R-Orange, calls the situation immoral, unfair and unethical. He has proposed legislation that would limit the practice. Spitzer deserves kudos for this effort, but I wouldn't expect the legislation to go far given the deference afforded public-sector union members and law enforcement in the state Capitol.

The whole thing is a scam. This confidentiality of plates is defended on grounds of safety – even though there's no example of anyone's safety having been jeopardized and even though so many of the workers who receive the protections are not in even remotely dangerous professions. Plus, the original rationale for the protection has evaporated. As the Register noted, "updated laws have made all DMV information confidential to the public."

Pound that table again!

Wouldn't it be nice if the government, for once, put the public's safety above the concerns of its own workers and its own bureaucratic prerogatives? These days, the focus always seems to be on the safety of the government workers (FYI, no government job is in the top 10 list of most-dangerous occupations), even though the government's entire raison d'être (hey, French is appropriate, given the subject matter) is to protect us. Public-choice theory is correct – government workers function mainly to promote their own self-interest, and not to promote what some naïvely believe to be the public good.

Sadly, as the government expands, America is becoming a society where the public "servants" are now the masters. Government workers earn higher salaries than their cohorts in the private sector and far higher benefits – with a massive public unfunded liability (debt) as a result. The taxpayer eventually will be forced to clean up the fiscal mess. These same government employees have special protections from accountability. There's the Peace Officers' Bill of Rights, civil service protections and government unions, the last of which instill fear and trepidation into the hearts of politicians.

And now we learn that members of this coddled and powerful group (and their family members) don't even need to follow the basic traffic laws that apply to the rest of us. If you're not angry, then you must be a member of the special caste.

April 22, 2008

Steven Greenhut (send him mail) is a senior editorial writer and columnist for the Orange County Register. He is the author of the book, Abuse of Power. Visit his blog.

Copyright © 2008 Orange County Register

PatriotnMore
04-22-2008, 10:48 AM
Good article. I feel the same way he does, and have felt this way for a long time, the old wink and a nod attitude prevalent within Law Enforcement and Government has gotten out of control. The Fox watching the Hen house has become the accepted norm.
The ones who scream the loudest against articles such as this, are those who have something to lose. There is not a good reason why the Law should not be enforced equally, regarless of what side of the bagdge, or Governmental agency your on.
You take the oath to serve and protect, then you serve within the frame of the of the Law, not above or below it.
Abuse is abuse, don't show me blue skies and tell me their grey.
Of course, this is just MHO, I am sure someone will be along to tell me how wrong I am.

Liberty1
04-22-2008, 10:53 AM
Not quite true. I have confidential plates and I have gotten a parking ticket and a toll road violation mailed to my department and placed in my mailbox there. The toll road violation was later rescinded because for some reason the sensors didn't read my "box". I paid the $42 parking meter violation (my wife got :mad:).

Now whether or not my plates or ID would get me out of a moving violation I'm not sure. I haven't been pulled over. And will not be showing my badge looking for a favor - I value my career too much for that. There are guys in my dept who have gotten tickets from CHP. I know of cops who have been arrested for DUI. So although I'm sure many are given special treatment often, it's not certain and the officer who assumes this is setting himself up for off duty trouble and the possible loss of a career.

But, I'd say there certainly are abuses that occure. The way to counter that is through some high profile stings. Everyones home address should be confindential. Better yet repeal CVC12500 (DLs) and 4000a1 (registration) and let a free people travel freely.

code33
04-22-2008, 10:54 AM
This article paints a very accurate picture of the elitist attitude among the rulers of our state.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/greenhut/greenhut54.html

Not really... It is biased.
The article refers to California Vehicle Section 1808.4.

As Liberty mentioned, some abuses will occur. Don't assume that the folks that have confidentiality are going around disregarding laws. It's like saying that all cops are bad. Getting written up by the employer for this can be worse than actually getting the cite.

dustoff31
04-22-2008, 10:54 AM
This is what happens when voters pay more attention to what politicians say, than what they do. If they pay attention at all.

I can see some justification for confidential plates for LEOs and maybe firemen. But politicians? They don't seem to mind you knowing who they are when they want your money or your vote.

hawk1
04-22-2008, 11:01 AM
Come on guys, look at his homepage. It's not an "article" its a blog and a biased one at that. Anyone with a computer and a webpage could put this type of crap out there...
Here let me write an "article" on how dogs are really cats in disguise. Doesn't make it true...

Matt C
04-22-2008, 11:05 AM
Better yet repeal CVC12500 (DLs) and 4000a1 (registration) and let a free people travel freely.

This is why you are my favorite cop ever.

PatriotnMore
04-22-2008, 11:11 AM
I applaud and stand behind ALL of the LEO's and Governemt officials who do not abuse their positions, and would have their back if they needed it in a bad sutuation. Furthermore, I would say there are FAR MORE good ones then bad.

Liberty1
04-22-2008, 11:15 AM
Is there an exemption in the CVC for "official" vehicles in HOV lanes?

PatriotnMore
04-22-2008, 11:22 AM
I may be wrong, but only for vehicles in emergency situations. However, I have seen agency cars from various agencies travelling in the carpool lanes with no lights, or siren, as a single passenger.

Liberty1
04-22-2008, 11:25 AM
This is why you are my favorite cop ever.

There are MANY arrestees and ticketed drivers who would disagree with you.:p In my past I held a few records. Not so any more. You temper your outlook when able to view things from the outside looking in. Your arrest did a lot to push me to where I am now. As well as remembering who I was and what I believed in before taking this job.

PatriotnMore
04-22-2008, 11:42 AM
Not discounting that story but I think the officer you were riding with was telling tales out of school. Driving unauthorized code will get the dept in MORE trouble with MORE liability as any injury occurring in a TC with a emergency vehicle will be litigated. The false code will be discovered and many careers will be in jeopardy.

Not to be argumentative(I mean that sincerely), can you say with 100% confidence that the Officer caught driving unauthorized code actions will not be covered up to appear they were driving authorized, as to cover it up, and avoid any liability, especially if this was a high ranking officer?

In an other example, isn't the ex-Sheriff of OCSD a good example of the fox watching the hen house? It took the Feds to bring this out in the open.

aileron
04-22-2008, 11:47 AM
This is why you are my favorite cop ever.

I agree.

DrunkSkunk
04-22-2008, 11:52 AM
I've got a bunch of buddies that are officers or deputies.

few years ago it's 3am and a buddy was on duty - he was chasing us code down rosecrans doing 80 because he wanted to see how fast my buddies new 745 was.

another buddy driving home plastered one day hits a fire hydrant! responding officer tells him to get the hell out of there.

another buddy works gang unit, he's notorious for speeding and blowing through stop signs in his pov, doesn't hang plates on it either so he gets pulled over and let go all the time.

me i drive the speed limit and don't violate any rules, so don't get pulled over.

Matt C
04-22-2008, 12:04 PM
There are MANY arrestees and ticketed drivers who would disagree with you.:p In my past I held a few records. Not so any more. You temper your outlook when able to view things from the outside looking in. Your arrest did a lot to push me to where I am now. As well as remembering who I was and what I believed in before taking this job.

Same here, I was a ticket/DUI Nazi at one point. It's easy to forget what's right sometimes when you are dealing with all that comes with wearing a badge. Honestly I don't think I could be a cop anymore, even in 10 years, but it's good to know there are guys like you out there.

tyrist
04-22-2008, 12:19 PM
This "article" is bogus. My plates are private and it has not stopped me from getting parking tickets or my vehicle towed. All it does is stop some chick at the dmv from giving her gangsta boyfriend our personal information.

I know of plenty of cops who have been placed on department probation for being duece (DUI) and if they continued to drink any alcohol they were fired whether driving or not.

Fate
04-22-2008, 12:24 PM
CNN ran a story this morning of a citizen bringing a formal complaint/citation against an officer who parked in a no parking zone. Not sure of the location (might've been Pennsylvania). Apparently, the on duty officer was just at the restaurant watching the basketball game. As much as his superiors dismissed the complaint on TV as "ridiculous" and "an officer shouldn't have to drive a long way from where he wants to go to find parking"...they were having to formally deal with the complaint. Made me kinda laugh and say "about time!" :D

eta34
04-22-2008, 1:41 PM
This "article" is bogus. My plates are private and it has not stopped me from getting parking tickets or my vehicle towed. All it does is stop some chick at the dmv from giving her gangsta boyfriend our personal information.

I know of plenty of cops who have been placed on department probation for being duece (DUI) and if they continued to drink any alcohol they were fired whether driving or not.

+1. I have witnessed this personally. Had to help arrest a DUI fireman one time. Know of DUI cops/domestic violence arrests of cops/etc. It happens.

eta34
04-22-2008, 1:42 PM
Not to be argumentative(I mean that sincerely), can you say with 100% confidence that the Officer caught driving unauthorized code actions will not be covered up to appear they were driving authorized, as to cover it up, and avoid any liability, especially if this was a high ranking officer?

In an other example, isn't the ex-Sheriff of OCSD a good example of the fox watching the hen house? It took the Feds to bring this out in the open.

Can you say with 100% confidence that it will be covered up? I can think of officers getting write ups for their driving far more times than any other infraction.

Ledbetter
04-22-2008, 2:54 PM
and I've gotten tickets. I know people who have been arrested for DUI although they are on that list. Whoever posted anything that implies that the list confers immunity from the law is ignorant of the facts.

This is in my community; for all I know your sheriff/police chief may break the law, but this law is not evidence of that.

ElCUBANO
04-22-2008, 3:14 PM
My tags have never kept my son from getting a ticket while driving one of my vehicles. But what it dose do is keep some scum bag from finding out where I live and hurting my family. I haven't received any citations but I know other officers that have.

Sgt Raven
04-22-2008, 3:54 PM
Is there an exemption in the CVC for "official" vehicles in HOV lanes?

Well I see the CHP-DOT pick-ups riding the HOV lanes all the time and the vehicles they’re out there for are all restricted to the right 2 lanes for the most part. :p

tyrist
04-22-2008, 4:57 PM
CNN ran a story this morning of a citizen bringing a formal complaint/citation against an officer who parked in a no parking zone. Not sure of the location (might've been Pennsylvania). Apparently, the on duty officer was just at the restaurant watching the basketball game. As much as his superiors dismissed the complaint on TV as "ridiculous" and "an officer shouldn't have to drive a long way from where he wants to go to find parking"...they were having to formally deal with the complaint. Made me kinda laugh and say "about time!" :D

You have obviously never heard an Officer go down or call for help while in a fight. Running a few blocks to get your car to respond is not an option. If they want to beef us for it fine....I will take the reprimand.

Also while you are getting robbed/burglarized standby while I run out to my car rather than just jumping in and going.

Solidsnake87
04-22-2008, 5:39 PM
America is supposed to be a democracy of equals, yet we are becoming increasingly submissive to govt. rule. The do as I say and not as i do mentality is a bunch of BS!!!!!!!1

Fate
04-22-2008, 5:39 PM
Also while you are getting robbed/burglarized standby while I run out to my car rather than just jumping in and going.What's the diff? One way or the other, it'll be over when you arrive anyways.

ibanezfoo
04-23-2008, 8:12 AM
I have a friend to is the son of a diplomat from Ghana. He tells me about how when he was a kid, his dad had some diplomatic immunity license plates and basically drove however and wherever he wanted.... speeding, wrong way on one way roads, etc. Don't know if that still works today.... I always thought they should be held more accountable than average citizens.

-Bryan

Yankee Clipper
04-23-2008, 9:05 AM
This article paints a very accurate picture of the elitist attitude among the rulers of our state.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/greenhut/greenhut54.html

Did the original post in this thread come off The Register's Editorial page?
The original front page article had more to do with these license plate holders not getting tickets for using the HOV lanes of the 91, 243, and 73 freeways. The agency responsible for enforcement contracts out to collection agencies to collect from users who don't have a transponder that's required to use those lanes. That was quite a leap for the license plate holders to be able to avoid speeding tickets.

glockman19
04-23-2008, 9:25 AM
Better yet repeal CVC12500 (DLs) and 4000a1 (registration) and let a free people travel freely.

+1.

Decoligny
04-23-2008, 9:33 AM
I have a friend to is the son of a diplomat from Ghana. He tells me about how when he was a kid, his dad had some diplomatic immunity license plates and basically drove however and wherever he wanted.... speeding, wrong way on one way roads, etc. Don't know if that still works today.... I always thought they should be held more accountable than average citizens.

-Bryan

OFF TOPIC
Diplomatic immunity still works that way, a diplomat could rape and murder someone, and the most that the U.S. could do would be to expell them as persona non-grata.

Matt C
04-23-2008, 11:46 AM
OFF TOPIC
Diplomatic immunity still works that way, a diplomat could rape and murder someone, and the most that the U.S. could do would be to expell them as persona non-grata.

Pretty likely that they would be prosecuted in the home country, in fact the home country would probably revoke diplomatic status if they clearly did something very bad.

CrippledPidgeon
04-23-2008, 1:06 PM
You have obviously never heard an Officer go down or call for help while in a fight. Running a few blocks to get your car to respond is not an option. If they want to beef us for it fine....I will take the reprimand.

Also while you are getting robbed/burglarized standby while I run out to my car rather than just jumping in and going.

On the other hand, I would prefer my police officers in their cars, and out patrolling, rather than sitting in a restaurant watching the game (with their car nearby "just in case") On the other hand, I have never had to work the kinds of shifts that these guys do, so I can't even begin to understand how boring the daily grind for them probably is.

Matt C
04-23-2008, 1:37 PM
On the other hand, I would prefer my police officers in their cars, and out patrolling, rather than sitting in a restaurant watching the game (with their car nearby "just in case") On the other hand, I have never had to work the kinds of shifts that these guys do, so I can't even begin to understand how boring the daily grind for them probably is.

Uh, they have to eat...

tyrist
04-23-2008, 9:32 PM
What's the diff? One way or the other, it'll be over when you arrive anyways.

Wrong..Just flat wrong.

leelaw
04-23-2008, 10:45 PM
Pretty likely that they would be prosecuted in the home country, in fact the home country would probably revoke diplomatic status if they clearly did something very bad.

Officer: "We are expelling your diplomat for murder and rape"
Home Country: "Oh, really? What time did this happen?"
Officer: "About 10PM this evening"
Home Country: "Oh, that's funny, because <scribble> according to our records, we fired him and revoked his diplomatic privileges at 9PM today...."

:p

FreedomIsNotFree
04-24-2008, 12:45 AM
I cant remember exactly where I seen it, but it was a site dedicated to LEO's complaining about other LEO's citing them for VC violations. To say there isn't an expectation of "professional courtesy" is naive...but for a LEO to count on it at every turn is just plain stupid. Some LEO's give themselves chubbies by citing other LEO's.

retired
04-24-2008, 12:56 AM
Until I read the article in the paper about the toll roads and some of those who have confidential plates not paying the tolls, I was unaware it was possible to do that. I have always paid the toll on them. I have a confidential plate, but even now that I know I could probably avoid the toll, I wouldn't even think of doing so and shame on those that do. I'm a very infrequent user of them, but I would still pay; not to do so would be wrong.

Fate
04-24-2008, 9:09 AM
Wrong..Just flat wrong.

Tyrist, I obviously struck a nerve with reporting about the CNN story. Then you decided to make it personal and include me in your scenario. I don't know what kind of superheros you have on the force in OC that are able to show up before a thug can finish saying, "gimme your wallet" but up here in LA, response time is QUITE a bit slower.

I HAVE experienced that poor performance first-hand, several times, in life-threatening situations over my 24 years living as an adult in LA. In all cases, the police arrived 30-45 minutes after it was long over or never showed at all.

Recently I had someone kick in my front door on Christmas Eve. Wife called 911 and retreated with the kids while I grabbed my pistol. Her 911 call requested immediate help from LAPD (whose jurisdiction we are in), dispatch decided to connect us with LASD. LASD said, not our area and tried to connect us back to LAPD. Instead we were connected to Simi Valley PD. They tried to connect us back to LAPD and ended up disconnecting us completely. All parties said "stay on the line, don't hang up, we're on our way." I locked up the house, armed my wife and we sat it out. End result? Perp vanished (likely after hearing me shout "get out, I have a gun!"). Cops never showed. No happy ending, but no casualties either. Ultimately, I gave up trying to file a report as I had no description of the guy.

Tyrist, if indeed the police in Orange County are faster than a speeding bullet and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, please send some of them up here to L.A. We could really use them.

Glock22Fan
04-24-2008, 9:43 AM
Recently I had someone kick in my front door on Christmas Eve. Wife called 911 and retreated with the kids while I grabbed my pistol. Her 911 call requested immediate help from LAPD (whose jurisdiction we are in), dispatch decided to connect us with LASD. LASD said, not our area and tried to connect us back to LAPD. Instead we were connected to Simi Valley PD. They tried to connect us back to LAPD and ended up disconnecting us completely. All parties said "stay on the line, don't hang up, we're on our way."

Did your wife say "I think they have guns, and we have them too."?

I understand that dispatchers treat "gun involved" incidents more seriously. I wonder if firing a warning shot into the ground within the hearing of the 911 operator would help speed things up, or make things worse afterwards?

However, I well believe your story. Anyone who thinks 911 gives an immediate response is guilty of wishful thinking.

Yankee Clipper
04-24-2008, 10:34 AM
Did your wife say "I think they have guns, and we have them too."?

I understand that dispatchers treat "gun involved" incidents more seriously. I wonder if firing a warning shot into the ground within the hearing of the 911 operator would help speed things up, or make things worse afterwards?

However, I well believe your story. Anyone who thinks 911 gives an immediate response is guilty of wishful thinking.

It would make things worse: in most cities it's illegal to shoot your firearm and there might be a stone or small piece of metal just below the surface that would cause a ricochet into a member of your family or you.

Glock22Fan
04-24-2008, 12:06 PM
It would make things worse: in most cities it's illegal to shoot your firearm and there might be a stone or small piece of metal just below the surface that would cause a ricochet into a member of your family or you.

Oh dear, I'm being attacked by bad guys and it is illegal to shoot my gun. This is because I can't be trusted not to cause a ricochet.

Why do we have guns then? Oh yes, it's so we can use them with sense and discretion when the situation is serious enough to merit it, i.e. one feels that one's life is in danger.

BillCA
04-24-2008, 12:31 PM
I have to disagree with the OP and his quoted source.

Sure, there are cops who extend "professional courtesy" to other LEOs. However, there is also a limit. This limit can vary by agency, county or the individual officer. If the driver is a LEO, Firefighter or similar government agent, doing 9-10 mph over the limit will probably get you warned to slow down. Same for slowly rolling a stop sign or not stopping completely on a right-turn-on-red.

If the LEO is doing 45 in a school zone, however, he'd best be on-duty and responding somewhere. If a LEOs spouse is driving solo in the HOV lane or bypasses the bridge toll booth, expect a ticket. Driving recklessly or DUI will likely not get you much professional courtesy from an outside agency.

Keep in mind that police officers, et al, have to keep a fairly clean driving record for their jobs. And they get used to certain bad habits when driving a patrol car, such as not signaling or rolling stop signs to save minutes during the shift.

What I think is wrong is when off-duty cops expect to be let off for traffic violations. Especially those who get wood by showing it off with non-LEO friends in their car.

Where it gets bad is when you have government employees attempting to extend this to their spouses, kids etc too. Some time ago, the wife of a CHP officer was following my truck too close. On a 40 mph road four idiots ran across just in front of me, leaving 2 "undecided" idjits at the curb. I slammed the brakes and felt a slight thump in the rear. I eased off and pulled over. The trailer hitch had gone up as I braked and her Honda's hood went under it. When we parted ways, the trailer hitch took the top of her hood and radiator along. SJPD showed up (he'd been going the other way). When the PD said he was going to cite her for following too close, she objected by saying "You can't give me a ticket! My husband is a highway patrolman." After twice more insisting, she dialed her husband's cell phone saying "Talk to him. He says we'll never get tickets anymore!" :rolleyes: Well, at least she got the ticket.

retired
04-24-2008, 2:09 PM
Bill, she was an idiot and certainly deserved a ticket.

When I was in patrol, I had no problem giving professional courtesy to leos and firemen. But, as you said, there is a limit. Getting in an accident with someone hurt wouldn't get professional courtesy from me. I wasn't about to put my career on the line. Thankfully, I was never faced with that situation.

On the other side of the coin, I gave out numerous warnings (verbal) to "regular" people also for rolling stops and other minor violations. If they seemed to get the warning and didn't let their mouth get ahead of their brain, that is all I did; warn them.

For the flagrant violations and those who weren't receptive to the warning and demanded to know why I wasn't out catching robbers, murderers, etc., they got a ticket. Heck, the only way to get one guy to shut up was to advise him that I could put 4 violations on each ticket and each book contained 25 tickets. He finally caught on and I was able to get him on his way with only the initial violation.:D

tyrist
04-24-2008, 9:15 PM
Tyrist, I obviously struck a nerve with reporting about the CNN story. Then you decided to make it personal and include me in your scenario. I don't know what kind of superheros you have on the force in OC that are able to show up before a thug can finish saying, "gimme your wallet" but up here in LA, response time is QUITE a bit slower.

I HAVE experienced that poor performance first-hand, several times, in life-threatening situations over my 24 years living as an adult in LA. In all cases, the police arrived 30-45 minutes after it was long over or never showed at all.

Recently I had someone kick in my front door on Christmas Eve. Wife called 911 and retreated with the kids while I grabbed my pistol. Her 911 call requested immediate help from LAPD (whose jurisdiction we are in), dispatch decided to connect us with LASD. LASD said, not our area and tried to connect us back to LAPD. Instead we were connected to Simi Valley PD. They tried to connect us back to LAPD and ended up disconnecting us completely. All parties said "stay on the line, don't hang up, we're on our way." I locked up the house, armed my wife and we sat it out. End result? Perp vanished (likely after hearing me shout "get out, I have a gun!"). Cops never showed. No happy ending, but no casualties either. Ultimately, I gave up trying to file a report as I had no description of the guy.

Tyrist, if indeed the police in Orange County are faster than a speeding bullet and able to leap tall buildings in a single bound, please send some of them up here to L.A. We could really use them.

It is rare that we catch them in the act...however I have caught numerous suspects after the fact. We have airships and other units in the area. We broadcast suspect decriptions and put up perimeters and bring in K-9s for searches.

I am sorry that you felt I made it personal...I did not intend that.