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Matt C
04-21-2008, 12:28 PM
Since there has been some discussion of late regarding restoration of firearms rights following a felony conviction, TMLLP Managing Partner C.D. Michel has been kind enough a memorandum of law relating to the effect of Penal Code 17(b); Reduction to Misdemeanor On State and Federal Firearm Possession Prohibition. It lays out the relevant PC and case law quite nicely. If anyone has any additional questions relating to a personal case they should contact the firm directly.

http://www.calgunlaws.com/index.php/topic-summaries/530.html (http://www.calgunlaws.com/index.php/topic-summaries/530.html)

MODS: Sticky?

Phugedaboudet
04-28-2008, 2:41 PM
It's hard enough to restore firearms owners rights for those without any sort of conviction or criminal history.

Good luck!

daves100
06-24-2008, 6:23 PM
Did you get your gun rights back yet.......

Matt C
06-24-2008, 6:28 PM
Heh, see the post above yours... (Not yet. :()

Knauga
06-24-2008, 9:03 PM
Heh, see the post above yours... (Not yet. :()

What is holding it up? You were not convicted of any crime, what's the deal?

Matt C
06-26-2008, 1:09 AM
The SD won't take me out of the system. I wish I had the money to sue them, but I don't so I have to wait.

Dark Water
06-26-2008, 2:07 AM
Is it even possible for a convicted felon to get there 2nd ammendment rights restored? This is all news to me.

BigBamBoo
06-26-2008, 7:09 AM
.................

Knauga
06-26-2008, 7:21 AM
The SD won't take me out of the system. I wish I had the money to sue them, but I don't so I have to wait.

This might be a job for the Calguns foundation ;)

jondough
06-26-2008, 8:39 AM
Is it even possible for a convicted felon to get there 2nd ammendment rights restored? This is all news to me.

Just thought I would chime in this thread, as I originally came here to read discussion on the DC vs Heller decision and spotted this thread.

Yes, Felons can get thier gun rights restored. I was convicted in 2002 of a felony, non-voilent, non-gun, non-drug related, the court even allowed me to transfer my guns that I had to a family member. who kept them for me until i completed probation (5yrs) upon succesfully completing probation, we petitioned to judge to reduce my felony to a misdemeanor, and for expungement which was granted.

2 days later, walked in gun shop, bought me my first gun in 6 years, cleared NICS. and walked out the door, 3 months later, I was issued my Concealed Weapons Permit.

So yes, some felons can have thier rights restored. Luckliy I live in a gun freindly state of Idaho.

gunn
06-27-2008, 8:35 AM
Just curious.
On any applications that ask, which box do you check next to the question "Hey, Have you commited a felony?"

Do you check:
a) Yes, and then have to fill out is a section below that it was later reduced.
or
b) No, because having the wobbler reduced to a misdemeanor makes it so that your feloneous crime "never happened."

jondough
06-27-2008, 12:54 PM
Just curious.
On any applications that ask, which box do you check next to the question "Hey, Have you commited a felony?"

Do you check:
a) Yes, and then have to fill out is a section below that it was later reduced.
or
b) No, because having the wobbler reduced to a misdemeanor makes it so that your feloneous crime "never happened."

Answer B, because the conviction was reduced to a misdemeanor, and is no longer treated as a felony conviction, in my case, the judge reduced it to a Misdeameanor, and entered a not guilty plea on my behalg, and expunged it from my record.

Paladin
06-28-2008, 6:10 AM
Since there has been some discussion of late regarding restoration of firearms rights following a felony conviction, TMLLP Managing Partner C.D. Michel has been kind enough a memorandum of law relating to the effect of Penal Code 17(b); Reduction to Misdemeanor On State and Federal Firearm Possession Prohibition. It lays out the relevant PC and case law quite nicely. If anyone has any additional questions relating to a personal case they should contact the firm directly.

http://www.calgunlaws.com/article-494.html

MODS: Sticky?
When I click the link, a webpage by IPOWER comes up saying,

This site has been suspended

If you manage this site and have a question about why the site is not available, please contact us directly.

Matt C
06-28-2008, 8:11 AM
When I click the link, a webpage by IPOWER comes up saying,

Calgunlaws is down for renovations, it will be back up soon.

1911_sfca
06-28-2008, 11:22 AM
I don't agree with having this thread sticky. It could give people the wrong impression that Calguns promotes granting/restoring gun rights to convicted felons. I don't have any problem with the information on the law being here, but do we really want to "promote" it? JMHO.

Matt C
06-29-2008, 11:30 AM
I don't agree with having this thread sticky. It could give people the wrong impression that Calguns promotes granting/restoring gun rights to convicted felons. I don't have any problem with the information on the law being here, but do we really want to "promote" it? JMHO.

You really think all felonies, in other words anything the legislature deems to be a felony, should result in a permanent loss of constitutional rights?

GuyW
06-29-2008, 12:10 PM
Answer B, because the conviction was reduced to a misdemeanor, and is no longer treated as a felony conviction, in my case, the judge reduced it to a Misdeameanor, and entered a not guilty plea on my behalg, and expunged it from my record.

As the teacher said in school, "answer the question".

The answer is A. You committed a felony. Later it was reduced and expunged.

Matt C
06-29-2008, 12:17 PM
As the teacher said in school, "answer the question".

The answer is A. You committed a felony. Later it was reduced and expunged.

Incorrect.

Labor Code Sections 432.7 and 432.8, and Fair Employment Housing Commission regulations prohibit employers from requesting information concerning the following:

1. Arrests that have not resulted in a conviction;

2. Convictions that have been expunged, sealed, or statutorily eradicated;

3. Convictions in which the applicant was referred to or successfully participated in any pretrial or posttrial diversion program;

4. Misdemeanors for which probation has been successfully completed or otherwise discharged, and the case has been judicially dismissed; and

5. A marijuana-related misdemeanor that occurred more than two years ago.

GuyW
06-29-2008, 12:45 PM
OK, but the OP asked, "On any applications that ask..."

That means apps for professional or government-issued licenses, or apps for CCWs, etc

Matt C
06-29-2008, 5:38 PM
OK, but the OP asked, "On any applications that ask..."

That means apps for professional or government-issued licenses, or apps for CCWs, etc

The government can't ask you "Have you ever committed a felony". Well they can ask, but they can't require you to answer.

GuyW
06-29-2008, 6:59 PM
The government can't ask you "Have you ever committed a felony". Well they can ask, but they can't require you to answer.


What basis do you have to say that?

Somewhere, at some time, I read an attorney's advice that even expunged misdemeanors be disclosed....

Matt C
06-29-2008, 7:52 PM
What basis do you have to say that?

Somewhere, at some time, I read an attorney's advice that even expunged misdemeanors be disclosed....

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

This law has been around for a while.

GuyW
06-30-2008, 11:09 AM
At what point did the discussion morph to self-incriminating testimony in criminal prosecutions?

....disclosure is not a prosecution....

No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

This law has been around for a while.

GuyW
06-30-2008, 11:15 AM
Just curious.
On any applications that ask, which box do you check next to the question "Hey, Have you commited a felony?"

Do you check:
a) Yes, and then have to fill out is a section below that it was later reduced.
or
b) No, because having the wobbler reduced to a misdemeanor makes it so that your feloneous crime "never happened."

So, it all depends on the question:

1, Have you ever committed a crime?

2. Were you ever ARRESTED for a crime?

3. Have you ever been CONVICTED of a crime?


What's going to happen when they pull your criminal history?

"A successful expungement will not erase the criminal record, but rather the finding of guilt will be changed to a dismissal.[3] The petitioner then honestly and legally can answer to a question about his criminal history, with some exceptions, that he has not been convicted of that crime"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expungement#California

phm
06-30-2008, 8:27 PM
No person shall be held to answer for a capital, or otherwise infamous crime, unless on a presentment or indictment of a Grand Jury, except in cases arising in the land or naval forces, or in the Militia, when in actual service in time of War or public danger; nor shall any person be subject for the same offense to be twice put in jeopardy of life or limb; nor shall be compelled in any criminal case to be a witness against himself, nor be deprived of life, liberty, or property, without due process of law; nor shall private property be taken for public use, without just compensation.

This law has been around for a while.

You are wrong, if you apply for any professional license or for a peace officer status in the State of California you have to disclose the fact that you were convicted of a felony;Period. Just check with the Department of Real Estate and look at the application for a real esate license; it specifically states that expungements under pc 1203.4 must be disclosed, you can still get your license issued but you must disclose, for peace officer status you are disqualified for life if you were ever convicted of a felony as an adult even if you had an expungement under 1203.4.

jondough
07-06-2008, 1:42 PM
You are wrong, if you apply for any professional license or for a peace officer status in the State of California you have to disclose the fact that you were convicted of a felony;Period. Just check with the Department of Real Estate and look at the application for a real esate license; it specifically states that expungements under pc 1203.4 must be disclosed, you can still get your license issued but you must disclose, for peace officer status you are disqualified for life if you were ever convicted of a felony as an adult even if you had an expungement under 1203.4.

PHM,

you are partially correct, We only need to disclose our expungment for Professional Licensure, i.e, Medical Doctor, Real Estate Agent, Dentist, And for Peace Officer Jobs, but this also Includes any State Job, including The State lottery, or when Contracting with the state lottery.

phm
07-06-2008, 7:14 PM
PHM,

you are partially correct, We only need to disclose our expungment for Professional Licensure, i.e, Medical Doctor, Real Estate Agent, Dentist, And for Peace Officer Jobs, but this also Includes any State Job, including The State lottery, or when Contracting with the state lottery.

Agreed, but where am I partially correct? I wasn't going to list every single type of professional license, I just mentioned Real Estate license and one example. As far a peace officer's go anyone convicted of a felony even if expunged under 1203.4 is ineligible for life; it's still considered a conviction in the eyes of the law.

Solidsnake87
07-13-2008, 10:41 AM
BWO, did you get your old guns back from the case?

Shotgun Man
07-16-2008, 6:28 PM
If you click on the original link posted bythe OP you get a page not found reference.

Back on 6/28/08 a user made a similar point.

Not good for a sticky.

MudCamper
07-16-2008, 7:40 PM
GuyW, you are confusing 1203.4 with 17b(3). There are two types of expungement in California. 1203.4 dismissals of accusatory pleadings do not apply for running for public office, application for licensure by the state, contracting with the state lottery, and depending on who you ask, owning firearms. However, a 17b(3) reduction to misdemenor applies "for all purposes" - period. You do not and never had a felony conviction. Read the TMLLP memo posted in the beginning of this thread. It cites the case law that makes it golden.

GuyW
07-16-2008, 7:57 PM
GuyW, you are confusing 1203.4 with 17b(3). There are two types of expungement in California. 1203.4 dismissals of accusatory pleadings do not apply for running for public office, application for licensure by the state, contracting with the state lottery, and depending on who you ask, owning firearms. However, a 17b(3) reduction to misdemenor applies "for all purposes" - period. You do not and never had a felony conviction. Read the TMLLP memo posted in the beginning of this thread. It cites the case law that makes it golden.

I'll check it out so that I am not confused.

MudCamper
07-16-2008, 9:27 PM
I just went back and checked the calgunlaws link and it's a dead link.

Well, here is an older CalGuns discussion on this same topic:

http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showthread.php?t=92885

and the case law is People v Gilbrith. And strangely, my link to it in the old post has been killed, with the notice not to be published added...

"[O]nce a court has reduced a wobbler to a misdemeanor pursuant to . . . section 17, the crime is thereafter regarded as a misdemeanor 'for all purposes.' This unambiguous language means what it says, and unless the Legislature states otherwise, a person such as [defendant] stands convicted of a misdemeanor, not a felony, for all purposes upon the court so declaring."

BigBamBoo
07-17-2008, 7:36 AM
......
...............

dmsf
07-17-2008, 3:54 PM
As far as buying a gun...I say NO to a felony. In the last few months I have bought and/or transfered 8 guns including two handguns.

I go in to talk with the Sheriff next week with all my court papers and he is going to let me know if they (the Sheriff's dept.) will ok a CCW for me. From our phone conversation he said it should not be a problem if DOJ says I can own guns.

So yeah...it works.

Take care,Stan

Are you in California? I must say I'd agree with the law - if you did something dumb years ago that was non-violent/drug related but were able to keep your nose clean since and paid your dues, you should be given the rights of every taxpayer.

Let us know how it shakes out, I'd be curious to hear what the Sheriff says.

BigBamBoo
07-17-2008, 4:48 PM
.........

egnilk66
08-06-2008, 7:53 PM
So, it all depends on the question:

1, Have you ever committed a crime?

2. Were you ever ARRESTED for a crime?

3. Have you ever been CONVICTED of a crime?[/url]


The problem I've run into is that I was arrested for something that didn't really happen. When I went to court I had to plea down to Disorderly Conduct because a. I didn't have the money to go to court and b. I was a kid and was scared and didn't know what to do. I was certain (via my attorney) that I would get convicted, whether they had evidence or not, and they would throw the book at me. So.....Disorderly Conduct. But now....FFL transfers are being denied. The charge was eight years ago this month. Now what? I've started the appeal process with LEO.GOV (FBI- I think). But the intern on the phone when I called the CA DOJ said, and said it very smugly, "BANNED FOR LIFE!". WTF? People get out of prison after murder and I can't get a gun after being at the losing end of an argument?


ANY HELP/IDEAS WOULD BE GREATLY APPRECIATED. I'm feeling pretty lost here.

ptdog
08-08-2008, 11:33 AM
egnilk66 , don't be discouraged. I was in your shoes, but with a different charge. I also did something stupid when I was 18. All of us were probably young and stupid once. I really learned a great deal from that experience.

In my case, it was a felony wobbler. I did the 1203.4 and 17b to get it reduced to a misdemeanor and then set aside in 2002. This would have done it for me, but I was wrong. Just this year in February, I tried a purchase a firearm but was denied.

I was also lost and things seemed daunting in finding out why. I first started with FBI NICS, but realized that it is California DOJ who you need to deal with. I then called the firearms department in DOJ. A lady told me why I was turned down.

First is to get your Criminal history file and find out what is on it and what DOJ is seeing. For me, they had the wrong degree, first instead of second. Follow their dispute process when you get your history file. It took two tries to get the degree corrected. Once it was correct, the purchase went thru. DOJ is getting tough and said will not recognized a reduction to a misdemeanor if the charge was not a wobbler. In my case it was. They just had the wrong degree. They did see the reduction and set-asside, but with a first degree or non-wobble, they will deny your purchase.

The history file that was sent to me confirmed that they had inaccurate information for me.

Then really find out if your charge will have permenant disqualifier or 10 disqualifier. If not, use the process to dispute. In your claim of incompleteness, get certified court copies and sent that in with it. This process does work. It took me five month to get things corrected.

For me, the first try was someone not really reading the dispute form. I disputed further in a second letter as a reply. The second person took time to read it and call me about it. DOJ cannot simply correct your history file if it is wrong. They have to have the court retransmit or see if there is more. DOJ had to turn around and contact the court in my situation. DOJ was able to correct my incorrect charge and send me the new history file with the correct information.

If the process with the dispute does not work, you have the option to dispute the History file further with an Administrative Judge. DOJ will get this process going for you. All you have to do is dispute it to the supervisor of the person who is working with the dispute. You will have the burden of proof to state your case.

egnilk66
08-08-2008, 12:41 PM
PTD,

Thanks for the vote of confidence. I just don't see how this could possibly be a ban for life....or even for 10 years. I mean... Ban for life = MURDERS and other VIOLENT crimes especially involving weapons.

I was just beat up by my chick....and when the cops showed up, I didn't throw her under the bus like I should have. Instead I took the fall... Man, what chicks'll do to ya.


ANyway...thanks for the long reply. It's good info and good to know that the system CAN work.


Thanks again,


Egnilk66

BigBamBoo
09-01-2008, 5:12 PM
..............

egnilk66
09-01-2008, 6:16 PM
So, what I don't understand is this....Does it only take a DV "Charge" or a DV Conviction to be banned? Because anyone can easily CHARGE something that didn't really ever happen. And, what if the DV Charge ended up in a "disturbing the peace" conviction??

anthonyca
09-01-2008, 9:28 PM
So, what I don't understand is this....Does it only take a DV "Charge" or a DV Conviction to be banned? Because anyone can easily CHARGE something that didn't really ever happen. And, what if the DV Charge ended up in a "disturbing the peace" conviction??

If you are arrested or have a police report filed about you even if the prohibiting charges are dismissed but you plead down or plead to anything in the police report you can be banned for life.http://www.fbi.gov/hq/cjisd/nics/mcdvbrochure.pdf

The CAL doj will see that you have an arrest record and investigate further. Even if the FEDs say that you are not prohibited the clerk will look at the "police report" and "non court documents" and make a decision. They can determine that you acted with "boisterousness" in were "unreasonably loud" and will ban you for life even if the court says it was not Domestic Violence. I gave an accurate account in another thread of a guy who had the police called on him by someone who wanted to harm his relationship,not the victim,and was caught up in this. The DA dismissed the DV charges before his attorney even asked for a plea bargin and he is still banned.

egnilk66
09-02-2008, 3:57 AM
Well, that's similar to my case. It doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me. Guilty even after proven innocent, eh. I wonder if I can get a trial 8 years later.

CA_Libertarian
09-02-2008, 11:43 AM
Background checks need to be eliminated completely. The bad guys who want a gun to commit violent crimes will buy them on the street, sans background check. These laws only make it easier for the criminals to find unarmed victims.

egnilk66
09-06-2008, 3:09 AM
That may be....but how do we get our rights back until then? I can't get a pardon from the Governor because it's a misdemeanor that is not of a sexual nature. http://www.cdcr.ca.gov/Divisions_Boards/BOPH/docs/apply_for_pardon.pdf

Can I withdraw my plea and go to trial? The case has no merit, will the DA even pick it up and try for a prosecution?

I am totally lost here. I can't believe that I plead to something lower and still have the same sentence.

egnilk66
09-06-2008, 3:12 AM
I believe I stand corrected:

The traditional pardon procedure is available to those who are not eligible for a Certificate of Rehabilitation. This procedure is used primarily by those who were convicted of felonies in California and now reside outside the state. The traditional pardon procedure is also available to individuals who are not eligible for a Certificate of Rehabilitation because they have been convicted of sex offenses under Penal Code sections 286(c), 288, 288a(c), 288.5, or 289(j), and those convicted of misdemeanor offenses. The traditional pardon procedure is covered by Penal Code sections 4800-4813.

Liberty1
09-16-2008, 10:23 AM
http://www.calgunlaws.com/article-494.html



It's down

Matt C
09-16-2008, 10:27 AM
Yeah, I should have the new site up ASAP.

MudCamper
09-16-2008, 12:37 PM
Yeah, I should have the new site up ASAP.

The link has been dead for over 2 months. I can't find the PDF anywhere else on their site either.

SteveH
09-18-2008, 3:24 AM
It pretty damn hard to get convicted of a Felony in California. Even non wobbler straight felonies are often filed as Misdemeanors by the DA's.

Ive seen 273.5 filed as a misd.
245 filed as a misd.
DUI with injuries or death filed as a misd.

What they hell are you guys doing that you were arrested, charged and convicted for a felony?

BigBamBoo
09-18-2008, 11:02 AM
.................

MudCamper
09-18-2008, 11:14 AM
It pretty damn hard to get convicted of a Felony in California. Even non wobbler straight felonies are often filed as Misdemeanors by the DA's.

Ive seen 273.5 filed as a misd.
245 filed as a misd.
DUI with injuries or death filed as a misd.

What they hell are you guys doing that you were arrested, charged and convicted for a felony?

There are 58 DAs, remember. Your mileage may vary. It also depends on whether or not your local LEOs have small-town-cop mentality. I've seen 496 and 12020 cases held on no-bail, with felony convitions.

SteveH
09-18-2008, 12:55 PM
There are 58 DAs, remember. Your mileage may vary. It also depends on whether or not your local LEOs have small-town-cop mentality. I've seen 496 and 12020 cases held on no-bail, with felony convitions.

Here 12020 is an OR offense and filed as a misdmenaor punishable by 1-year of information probation.

I've seen career crooks arrestd 30 or more times for grand theft, burglary, identity theft, ADW, ect never pick up a felony conviction.

Matt C
09-20-2008, 7:52 PM
Ok, link in the OP works now.

anthonyca
09-22-2008, 11:01 PM
Here 12020 is an OR offense and filed as a misdmenaor punishable by 1-year of information probation.

I've seen career crooks arrestd 30 or more times for grand theft, burglary, identity theft, ADW, ect never pick up a felony conviction.

Where are you located? SF is like that with most crimes but if the cops are called on you by a neighbor for dv it's game over. They will spend 10s of thousands to get your rights banned.

scr83jp
10-10-2008, 10:11 AM
Just thought I would chime in this thread, as I originally came here to read discussion on the DC vs Heller decision and spotted this thread.

Yes, Felons can get thier gun rights restored. I was convicted in 2002 of a felony, non-voilent, non-gun, non-drug related, the court even allowed me to transfer my guns that I had to a family member. who kept them for me until i completed probation (5yrs) upon succesfully completing probation, we petitioned to judge to reduce my felony to a misdemeanor, and for expungement which was granted.

2 days later, walked in gun shop, bought me my first gun in 6 years, cleared NICS. and walked out the door, 3 months later, I was issued my Concealed Weapons Permit.

So yes, some felons can have thier rights restored. Luckliy I live in a gun freindly state of Idaho.You had your felony reduced to a misd that's why your rights were restored if it had remained a felony I doubt they would be!In CA there are misdemeanors that carry a lifetime ban on firearms ownership .

scr83jp
10-10-2008, 10:22 AM
It pretty damn hard to get convicted of a Felony in California. Even non wobbler straight felonies are often filed as Misdemeanors by the DA's.

Ive seen 273.5 filed as a misd.
245 filed as a misd.
DUI with injuries or death filed as a misd.

What they hell are you guys doing that you were arrested, charged and convicted for a felony?
I worked in the court systems in NYS & CA for 37 years saw lots of felony convictions that added to the corrections population. There are misdemeanor convictions in Cal that can cause a lifetime ban on firearms possession .

Xerxes
10-26-2008, 8:58 PM
I read this whole thread because a friend at work is going through this same thing.

His situation.

When he was 18 he committed an armed robbery with someone else and was convicted of aggravated robbery due to not having a weapon or making the threats. This was in Louisiana 34 years ago. He received a three year sentence, got out in one, received a pardon from the governor after five more years due to him becoming a minister and doing work with the prison lot.

Fast forward 34 years.

He is still ministering at his congregation, even gets to marry folks. He is very religious, works with drug addicts, never becomes angry. At his day job going hunting is popular so he thought why not and tried to buy a firearm. He filled out the form NO for felony conviction due to the governor's pardon.

He was denied but was not subject to perjury prosecution. He is trying to restore his rights himself and filled out lots of DOJ paperwork but no one at DOJ will answer him if he is even eligible for rights restoration. He had purchased firearms in Louisiana many years ago so it appears to be a DOJ thing and not a Fed thing. He gets the slack jaw stare when dealing with the government robotons.

So my question is???

Does a governor's pardon qualify someone in CA for restoration of firearms rights? Is there some rule that he must get a pardon from a CA governor to make this happen?

I read this thread and do not understand this and all this wobbler thing. It sounds like he may have been better off asking for a reduction to a misdemeanor rather than a pardon as those that had rights restored did this. I did not read anyone that received a governor's pardon getting his rights restored so is that even an option?

I would like all the highly learned (because they are members at all the gun/law forums and read it all day long) internet lawyers here at Calguns to chime in on this one so I can pass the information on like if it is worth him hiring a lawyer or if that's a waste of time and money.

Please help me help a friend who is the kind of person we want to be a firearms owner to stop those liberal ministers that preach firearms are evil.

BigBamBoo
10-28-2008, 12:57 PM
.................

claude
12-11-2008, 8:12 PM
Does anyone know a good (affordable) attorney in San Diego who knows how to restore firearm rights?

BigBamBoo
12-11-2008, 9:32 PM
...............

edwardm
12-12-2008, 4:07 AM
Pretty much ANY attorney can file a 17(b)....getting your gun rights back depends on if your felony is a "wobbler" or not. Just look in the phone book and call one of the criminal lawyers....they will explain it all to you.

Good luck,Stan

Stan, you might be shocked to learn how many attorneys don't fully grasp the implications of a 17(b) reduction. I've run into criminal attorneys with more grey hairs than there are stars in the galaxy, and not one understood that 17(b) (all other things being equal) will restore firearms rights.

On the flip side, I even recall one instance where a judge granted a 17(b) motion but specifically stated in the written order and memorandum that the party still could not have firearms (written in as a warning/admonition), which in that case was plainly untrue.

There's lots of FUD out there re: 17(b) still. One reason is that plenty of attorneys confuse it with the 1203.4 motion. I don't know why, but they do.

Robin47
12-12-2008, 10:06 AM
When laws become so appressive, then one is called an OUTLAW.
Because the system don't work anymore.
ALL rights like voting and all other rights might also be "taken away".
If its gun rights only then the laws are NOT equitable, and thats called
"Selective Discrimination". In other words to form an "Agenda".
Excluding personal liberty of anykind.
One way to restore gun rights is to move to a state that see's the laws differant, like Montana, Idaho, or Kentucky. After your time is done Probation
your rights will be restored.
The 2A was,an affermation as to a long standing understanding that one HAS
the right to self-defence, in all causes, with anything that works best guns
Included. The right to self-defence is a GOD given right.
No government has the right to deny a person to that, SO they are trying to deny the "TOOLS" one might use to help save their life or some one else's life.
In Australia when guns were banned, they started carrying swords, then the government started passing laws on swords also. A "No win situation".
In England long bows, also must be registered with serial numbers on them.

We must look to the legislators, making these laws to see if it was their Intent to bad X-felons from all their rights. If not then It was a "Commity" that has been deciding the fate and the laws of this state.
Thre US. Forest Service by commity makes its own laws now, asside from Congress. Just like the Calif fish & game do.

Good Luck ! Robin47

rhvm
01-04-2009, 2:53 PM
This is my issue. I was granted the 17b and 1203.4 and my order had this warning. My reduction and expungement happended prior to some of the CA Court of Appeals rulings on the effects of reduction and expungement, so I am thinking that CA DOJ is the main roadblock for me.


On the flip side, I even recall one instance where a judge granted a 17(b) motion but specifically stated in the written order and memorandum that the party still could not have firearms (written in as a warning/admonition), which in that case was plainly untrue.

There's lots of FUD out there re: 17(b) still. One reason is that plenty of attorneys confuse it with the 1203.4 motion. I don't know why, but they do.[/QUOTE]

BigBamBoo
01-05-2009, 8:03 AM
.................

MudCamper
01-05-2009, 8:40 AM
rhvm, Do you mean to say that you have paperwork from the court that both grants a reduction to misdemeanor per 17(b) and also states that you cannot possess a firearm? Or is it the generic 1203.4 warning about disclosing convictions when applying for licensure by the state?

cousinkix1953
01-21-2009, 11:32 PM
Is it even possible for a convicted felon to get there 2nd ammendment rights restored? This is all news to me.

A presidential pardon will do the trick. Bill Clinton granted clemency to a drug offender friend who needed guns to hunt in Arkansas. Don't even ask Obama, cuz he comes from an anti-gun hell called Chicago...

journeyman
01-22-2009, 11:08 AM
A presidential pardon will do the trick. Bill Clinton granted clemency to a drug offender friend who needed guns to hunt in Arkansas. Don't even ask Obama, cuz he comes from an anti-gun hell called Chicago...

A presidential pardon is only for Federally convicted felons whos case was adjudicated in a US federal district court......otherwise state felons apply to the Governor of the state. That is as far California is concerned i dont know how other states operarate...well maybe Nevada! hope this helps

CAL.BAR
01-22-2009, 12:22 PM
In CA, even in cases where you cannot 17(b) (i.e. no wobbler) you can still apply for a certificate of rehabilitation which acts as an application for gubernatorial pardon which WILL restore 2A rights.

Peter W Bush
01-24-2009, 3:36 PM
Working link is here http://www.calgunlaws.com/index.php/topic-summaries/530.html

SithLord3000
01-31-2009, 6:59 PM
Is it possible to have your gun rights restored in CA (or any state) if you've been convicted of felony assault with a deadly weapon? Now before everyone goes nuts let me explain the situation.

Back in 04 when my brother was 18 were were both fooling around with a knife (I know we were stupid) and I tripped over my feet and as I fell on him he was still holding onto the knife and when he put his hands up to protect himself I cut my arm on the blade. The next day I go to the doctor's office and explained how the cut happened but by law the dr. reported the incident and my brother was arrested a charged with felony assault with a dealdy weapon. I explaind the incident to the DA but they didn't want to drop the charges and he didn't have money for an attorney so he plead guilty. He was sentenced to only 3 months in county jail and released in 1 and a half for good behavior and under the deal the DA said he would not oppose to have the felony reduced to a misdomeanor once his probation was up and he paid his restitution fees all of which have been done and has not been in trouble since nor has he been in in trouble with the law prior to this.

Since we come from a family that is fairly big on guns, he understandably feels left out when we go hunting or do any sort of activity that involves firearms so would it be possible for him to have his gun rights restored?

MudCamper
01-31-2009, 7:06 PM
Is it possible to have your gun rights restored in CA (or any state) if you've been convicted of felony assault with a deadly weapon? Now before everyone goes nuts let me explain the situation.

Some misdemeanors are a 10 year prohibition on firearms, and I think some others are lifetime. I do not know exactly which ones though. I believe they are listed somewhere in PC 12021...

heyjerr
02-05-2009, 11:14 PM
Original URL doesn't work for me

MudCamper
02-06-2009, 8:44 AM
Original URL doesn't work for me

Here is the original CDM 17(b) memo:

http://www.paul.net/guns/CDM_Memorandum_on_restoration_of_rights.pdf

I don't know why it's gone from their site. If I am not supposed to republish it, I will take it down if asked.

CAL.BAR
02-06-2009, 9:12 AM
There are 58 DAs, remember. Your mileage may vary. It also depends on whether or not your local LEOs have small-town-cop mentality. I've seen 496 and 12020 cases held on no-bail, with felony convitions.

Please feel free to visit Orange County - you will see all sorts of unnecessary felony charges in cases involving all of the charges you mentioned and more. Apparently there is always lots of room in OC jails.

booga
03-10-2009, 12:55 PM
Somewhat off-topic but on the same page as the 17(b) filing

The wording of 17(b) states

Once a court has reduced a wobbler as a misdemeanor pursuant to section 17, the crime is thereafter regarded as a misdemeanor "for all purposes"

Would this also restore the chance of working as a LEO?

edwardm
03-10-2009, 2:09 PM
Somewhat off-topic but on the same page as the 17(b) filing

The wording of 17(b) states



Would this also restore the chance of working as a LEO?

Maybe, maybe not. See Govt. Code 1029:

1029. (a) Except as provided in subdivision (b), (c), or (d), each
of the following persons is disqualified from holding office as a
peace officer or being employed as a peace officer of the state,
county, city, city and county or other political subdivision, whether
with or without compensation, and is disqualified from any office or
employment by the state, county, city, city and county or other
political subdivision,...which confers upon the holder or employee the powers and duties of a peace
officer:
...

(a)(3) Any person who, after January 1, 2004, has been convicted of a
crime based upon a verdict or finding of guilt of a felony by the
trier of fact, or upon the entry of a plea of guilty or nolo
contendere to a felony. This paragraph shall apply regardless of
whether, pursuant to subdivision (b) of Section 17 of the Penal Code,
the court declares the offense to be a misdemeanor or the offense
becomes a misdemeanor by operation of law.

But,...

(b)(2) A person who pleads guilty or nolo contendere to, or who is
found guilty by a trier of fact of, an alternate felony-misdemeanor
drug possession offense and successfully completes a program of
probation pursuant to Section 1210.1 of the Penal Code shall not be
disqualified from being a peace officer solely on the basis of the
plea or finding if the court deems the offense to be a misdemeanor or
reduces the offense to a misdemeanor.

From what I gather, POST wanted this change (along with other types of authority) in the recent past. Not being an LEO, I don't know the dynamics of 'why'.

booga
03-11-2009, 4:06 AM
For those who have filed 17(b)

How long did it take from filing to letter of "approval"

Specify if filing with lawyer or without.

BigBamBoo
03-24-2009, 4:22 PM
..............

anthonyca
03-24-2009, 9:07 PM
About a month for me. I used an attorney for my filing.

Good luck,Stan

I recomend using an attorney well versed in FIREARMS LAW when making and attempt to restore rights and not accidently make the situation worse.

tknc99
03-25-2009, 11:24 AM
I'm curious, keep us informed

hierro
04-08-2009, 7:30 PM
Hello, I'm waiting for my pfec to come back from DOJ now. I have two questions, does the 17b motion clear up the Federal prohibition caused by the original California conviction? And how do you answer the question on the DROS form that asks have you ever been convicted of a felony, is it "Yes, but it was reduced to a misdemeanor", or "No" ? I can't wait, my original attorney told me there was no restoration of rights in California and anyone that told me different was wrong. So I have 5 wasted years from the date my DUI was reduced to a misdemeanor. Any advice would be appreciated.

Clint

calnurse
04-08-2009, 8:09 PM
Clint,
I would contact a firearms attorney. My friend had a problem on whether or not he could own firearms. He contacted the ATF initially and their attorney would not give him a straight answer. He then contacted Gun Owners of America and they referred him to an attorney in California. He obtained all pertinent records of the case and had to pay about $500 (just an estimate) for attorney review; after about a year, it was determined he was eligible to own one. Of course each case is different and some individuals may not get their rights restored. That would be my advice. Good luck!!

hierro
04-08-2009, 9:50 PM
Thanks for the advice. I have contacted an attorney recommended by the NRA-ILA. I am waiting on my PFEC to see what Cal DOJ has to say. Mainly I'm worried that the paperwork for my 17b reduction from the county was never forwarded to the DOJ 5 years ago.

Clint.

egnilk66
04-09-2009, 6:17 AM
Has anyone used the Attorneys that sponsor this page? Trutanich, Michel, something?

hierro
04-12-2009, 9:02 AM
egnilk66, I have spoken with them over the phone. They are the ones that convinced me that my original attorney is full of a substance coming out of the southfacing end of a northbound bull. If I need to hire an attorney after getting back my pfec, I will be hiring them even though I am in Northern California.

Clint.

edwardm
04-14-2009, 4:18 AM
I'm not surprised that you can't get accurate and valid information from attorneys about 17(b) reductions and their effects on wobbler convictions. As I've stated before, for some reason many attorneys confused 1203.4 *expungements* with 17(b)-based *reductions* (technically it's a declaration by the court that the offense is thereafter a misdemeanor for "all purposes".)

17(b) reduces an offense to a misdemeanor and if the resulting misdemeanor is not a prohibiting offense on either the State or Federal levels, you're good to go.

Another problem that comes up is Cal DOJ either never receives the updated conviction disposition from the county court, or Cal DOJ gets the information, but never (or inaccurately) updates your record in the Automated Criminal History System.

Either way, you're wasting money away hiring big guns at the outset, even if the PFEC comes back negative. And ordering a PFEC is NOT the right/best way to start this process, for the record.

FIRST, you order a copy of your criminal history and make sure everything is current and updated, shows the 17(b), etc. THEN you file your PFEC and see what happens. It's quite possible your offense was not actually ever reduced, merely expunged and you'll see a 1203.4 entry, but not a 17(b) entry.

I'm so tired of lawyer FUD about 17(b), 1203.4, etc.

egnilk66, I have spoken with them over the phone. They are the ones that convinced me that my original attorney is full of a substance coming out of the southfacing end of a northbound bull. If I need to hire an attorney after getting back my pfec, I will be hiring them even though I am in Northern California.

Clint.

rustycase
08-07-2009, 9:06 PM
I don't agree with having this thread sticky. It could give people the wrong impression that Calguns promotes granting/restoring gun rights to convicted felons. I don't have any problem with the information on the law being here, but do we really want to "promote" it? JMHO.

And I can understand that, yet what we should promote is rule of law.

If someone jumps through the hoops to satisfy law, so be it.

If another does not feel bound by what is obviously bad law on it's face,
well, I can understand that, also.

I have a God given right to own property.
...to the exclusion of all others.

jggonzalez
08-09-2009, 4:53 PM
I don't agree with having this thread sticky. It could give people the wrong impression that Calguns promotes granting/restoring gun rights to convicted felons. I don't have any problem with the information on the law being here, but do we really want to "promote" it? JMHO.

I'm with you. Except in rare circumstances, I figure if you've committed a felony, you can't be trusted with a gun. We need to start thinking about right/wrong instead of legal/illegal. Just because a lawyer can fix it doesn't make it right.

jggonzalez
08-10-2009, 11:21 AM
I'm not going to beat up on you. You're entitled to your opinion and I respect that.:)

As for the rest of your point, I get what you're saying, but I've seen too many felonies involving murder, rape, and drugs get swept under the rug. If someone commits one of those, then I don't think they should be allowed to rejoin society so they can just do it again. I especially don't trust their judgement with a gun. If someone is busted for selling pot, then they deserve what they get. They made a conscious choice to disregard society's laws and now they will face consequences. If it affects their family, then maybe they should have thought of that before they committed the crime.

I've had family members and friends hurt by felons and it really gets me sick. I even had a 92 year-old grandfather beaten to death in his own home during a home invasion late at night. He gave them what little money he had, but was unable to find any more because it was all in the bank, so they beat him to death. Sorry, but for crimes like that I don't buy this "paid my debt to society and I'm clean now" argument. I know a gun would have given him a chance, and that's why I keep mine loaded in a mini-vault, but that still doesn't excuse the goblins who killed him.

BHP FAN
08-11-2009, 3:11 PM
Wow.+1 for Freddie.

B.D.Dubloon
08-11-2009, 6:55 PM
Holy ****, look at the size of that dog's head!

scr83jp
08-22-2009, 4:50 PM
The following should lose they 2nd amendment rights for life:anyone armed while committing a crime, recidivistic dui drivers who injure or kill,sexual predators also should be emasculated.Calif has some laws for bangers who shoot at occupied residences conviction lose right to be armed for life.I met a lot of dangerous scary felons when I worked that I'd never want to see armed no matter how someone sees them as rehabilitated.

scc1909
08-23-2009, 10:07 AM
The SD won't take me out of the system. I wish I had the money to sue them, but I don't so I have to wait.
I am trying to figure out what he's talking about, but don't understand the reference to "SD". Can someone clear this up for me? TIA!

5150bronco
01-18-2010, 10:56 PM
thanks for the information and references. :D

Timer
07-16-2010, 5:03 PM
Been down this road. The best thing to do is call the public defenders office and ask them. They are da's in training. they will try and help, if all goes well send the doj a pfec and see what it says. Hope this helps. helped me get past my mistake. You can also use google for a list of offenses that can be reduced and/or offenses that carry lifetime or 10 year ban. you can file all the paperwork yourself if you want.

faterikcartman
07-17-2010, 11:34 PM
I know someone with a federal felony tax evasion conviction (no state crimes) -- any ideas if he could get his rights restored?

slomofo
07-18-2010, 9:53 PM
I know someone with a federal felony tax evasion conviction (no state crimes) -- any ideas if he could get his rights restored?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Second_Chance_Act