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fireluvrandrew@gmail.com
04-21-2008, 11:22 AM
I know this has been posted here before but for those who havent seen it see it here (http://www.cammenga.com/cammenga-products.php?category=5)


Anyways I went ahead and emailed them and let them know there is probably a lot of calgunners who would want some 10 round versions, and here is what they said
Hello Andrew,

Thank you for your inquiry. We are looking into the possibility of
producing a ten round version. It is hard to say when this will be
released. Please keep checking www.cammenga.com for product updates. If
you have any more questions, please do not hesitate to ask.

Best Regards,

Matt Cammenga
CAMMENGA CORP
100 Aniline Avenue, Suite 258
Holland, MI 49424
616-392-7999 X 204
matt@cammenga.com
www.cammenga.com


so if they do start making 10 rounders maybe we can get a group buy started, would anyone be interested?

perhaps if we get enough people that want one that will motivate them to crank some out!
so let me know and ill email them when I get a number and see what they can do

DedEye
04-21-2008, 11:25 AM
Why not just use a Mag- or StripLula with regular mags?

fireluvrandrew@gmail.com
04-21-2008, 11:26 AM
watch the video

hawk1
04-21-2008, 11:40 AM
I watched the video, whats the point? You're only loading 10 rounds. Unless you're offering this for those that can use their 30 round mags with their registered AW's.

Eric_Oh
04-21-2008, 11:45 AM
video is impressive.

fireluvrandrew@gmail.com
04-21-2008, 11:50 AM
droping in 10 rounds is still way faster then loading on a stripper clip and using that, this way you just drop them in, plus they torture test it so you know it functions good, im just trying to help out here if you dont want it fine but it doesn't mean someone else might not

Bobula
04-21-2008, 12:03 PM
Wow, great poll options.....
Interning with foxnews?

packnrat
04-21-2008, 12:05 PM
i do not know who built it but some years back i bought a loader for my m1 carbine works great made of steel and made in the usa, and - O no - cost less that 1/2 of this plastic ver.

no seeing as how these are made cheeply with injection molding, and probely in china, i still could use a some for a number of deffernt rifles.(about two or three)..but the price MUST come down a bit.
$30.00 bucks if made of steel ok yes no problem....but plastic come on it does not cost that much to have them built in china and shipped her, even a good mark up for there pocket. no more than $15.00 shipped.
and i would buy the full sized ones.

as for the weard mag....maybe, but in the full 30..10 is quick to reload.

:TFH:

.

fireluvrandrew@gmail.com
04-21-2008, 12:08 PM
No cnn the communist news network

No but really im sorry i thougt it was a really neat idea, I played with one before and it did work really well and really fast

DedEye
04-21-2008, 12:24 PM
droping in 10 rounds is still way faster then loading on a stripper clip and using that, this way you just drop them in, plus they torture test it so you know it functions good, im just trying to help out here if you dont want it fine but it doesn't mean someone else might not

PMags have really neat torture test videos too ;).

Toolbox X
04-21-2008, 12:31 PM
I have a 30rd Cammenga mag and it is by far my favorite of all my AR mags. I need to get more.

I only wish I could afford to fill them up and empty them more.

cullen
04-21-2008, 1:06 PM
i like how they do the hammer torture test with a full cammenga mag versus an empty mag

DedEye
04-21-2008, 1:56 PM
i like how they do the hammer torture test with a full cammenga mag versus an empty mag

I thought the exact same thing...

fireluvrandrew@gmail.com
04-21-2008, 2:37 PM
maybe so... try shooting one of your mags 3 times with a shotgun though, gosh why is everyone so skeptical, two people who OWN them say they are awesome like I said im just trying to help out, its not like I work for them, Ive played with one, worked great, and though maybe I could help get some 10 roundersa for everyone

DB2
04-21-2008, 2:40 PM
I have a 30rd Cammenga mag and it is by far my favorite of all my AR mags. I need to get more.

I only wish I could afford to fill them up and empty them more.

You must keep these out of state? I didn't know they made these in '99.

fireluvrandrew@gmail.com
04-21-2008, 2:44 PM
You must keep these out of state? I didn't know they made these in '99.

lol

aplinker
04-21-2008, 3:11 PM
You must keep these out of state? I didn't know they made these in '99.

:rolleyes: You can rebuild your prebans as anything you want... as long as 1 part is interchangeable.

hawk1
04-21-2008, 5:10 PM
:rolleyes: You can rebuild your prebans as anything you want... as long as 1 part is interchangeable.

plinker are there any interchangeable parts? I thought the Easy Loader was all proprietary and nothing interchanged? :confused:

aplinker
04-21-2008, 5:34 PM
Looks to me like, at minimum, the spring would swap. The floorplate might, too.

Toolbox X
04-21-2008, 6:33 PM
Parts do not have to be interchangable. I take apart one of my prebans and put together my replacement mag. I have Pmags as well.

In the corner of my office closet I have a pile of retired magazines that have each been taken apart, and all parts put into a sealed plastic bag with "RETIRED" written on it.

hawk1
04-21-2008, 7:10 PM
Parts do not have to be interchangable. I take apart one of my prebans and put together my replacement mag. I have Pmags as well.

In the corner of my office closet I have a pile of retired magazines that have each been taken apart, and all parts put into a sealed plastic bag with "RETIRED" written on it.

You are so wrong on this, but hey, if it works for you then go for it...:rolleyes:

Toolbox X
04-21-2008, 7:25 PM
You are so wrong on this, but hey, if it works for you then go for it...:rolleyes:

If you are so certain, please prove it.

aplinker
04-21-2008, 7:33 PM
If you are so certain, please prove it.

I definitely wouldn't put it like hawk did...

IIRC, this came up before about rebuilding mags. For example, it's completely legal to rebuild an 11rd magazine into a 30rd for an AR. So the next logical step is, could you rebuild it into a 100rd drum? The prudent statement was that you couldn't do this without at least one part exchanging, as you're not technically rebuilding.

I think what you're saying is that if you break down one mag, then build up the other new one that it's not manufacturing. I would agree with you that this is the logical view, but that doesn't mean it's necessarily legal.

My tendency is to fall on the logical side - a large capacity mag is one regardless of its form (as long as it can be used in the original firearm).

hawk1
04-21-2008, 7:54 PM
If you are so certain, please prove it.

http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf

Take a good look at Question #6 and #7.

Bill Wiese writings on this,
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=775096&postcount=10

If you need more I'll look for them.

jimx
04-21-2008, 8:09 PM
Id take a 10 rounder.

I doubt that I would sacrifice a pre-ban for a rebuild kit though.

jumbopanda
04-21-2008, 8:20 PM
i like how they do the hammer torture test with a full cammenga mag versus an empty mag

The first time they were both empty. But comparing steel mags with aluminum ones is a bit silly to begin with.

Looks like a decent product, although it wouldn't be as useful in 10 round form.

caveman4867
04-21-2008, 8:33 PM
I would like to have two or three,Just because they are different.

fireluvrandrew@gmail.com
04-21-2008, 8:48 PM
Alright so far we have 13 that are interested Ill see if we can get them to produce some, maybe if they give me a minimum order number

NeoWeird
04-21-2008, 9:03 PM
The deal with high cap mag alteration, whether that is repair or modification, is that the magazine MUST still function in it's original firearm. You can rebuild up a high cap AR mag into ANY AR mag you want; capacity aside. You can not, however, take a pre-ban Uzi mag and weld a box on the top to work in an AR lower. However, on the same page, you CAN mill a slot into the magazine to work in an AR blocked lower if the milled slot does not interfer with it's function in the Uzi.

The ONLY important feature is that it MUST still function in it's original firearm.

You can't, however play caliber cames and turn a pre-ban AR 30 rounder into a belt of 3.08 links because the Shrike uses links and mags, so you can convert it to links and then convert the links to .308 links because the MGI rifle takes both. The end magazine MUST still function in it's original firearm.

Toolbox X
04-21-2008, 9:27 PM
http://www.hoffmang.com/firearms/DOJ-large-cap-magazines-2005-11-10.pdf

Take a good look at Question #6 and #7.

Bill Wiese writings on this,
http://www.calguns.net/calgunforum/showpost.php?p=775096&postcount=10

If you need more I'll look for them.

I'm aware of all this. You probably have guessed, I'm pretty up to speed on CA gun laws.

There is no law I am aware of that prohibits me from legally replacing all of the parts of a legally owned highcap mag with whatever parts I choose. And I've searched. I won't go so far as to say I can rebuild an AR mag into a M1A mag, a Beta-C mag, or a long belt of linked .30-06, but there is no law against rebuilding a 30rd 5.56 mag into a 30rd 5.56 mag.

I do not live in fear of the DOJ or the 58 DA's. The DOJ will not clarify our state's gun laws, therefore is it my written duty to read the laws, understand the laws, and comply with the laws.

Many people used to feel the need to tiptoe around OLL's, crazy looking stocks, monster-like grips, and bullet buttons. Some people still feel the need to tiptoe around highcap mag laws. To each their own, I won't criticize.

I realize there is wisdom in not glorifying or drawing massive amounts of attention to my legal compliance (hey Matt!), but I will not tiptoe either. Until the DOJ specifically says, or a bill is passed saying it is illegal to rebuild high-cap mags with whatever parts I choose, it is legal.

And that is my humble opinion.

-Grant

hawk1
04-21-2008, 9:41 PM
All of which I understand. That's why in the previous post I wrote in the end, if it works for you then go for it.
For me it does no good. All my OLL's and my Sig 556 have all the features. My 20 and 30 round mags just collect dust in my safe, for now...

Toolbox X
04-21-2008, 9:52 PM
I think I was focused a little more on the part where you said:
You are so wrong on this...

It's a shame you have to keep those highcap mags unused in the safe. You know, with the right stock you could get them out of the safe and onto the range :43:

fireluvrandrew@gmail.com
04-21-2008, 10:08 PM
can we keep this to the OP

aplinker
04-21-2008, 10:23 PM
Grant, I would say, "a large capacity 5.56 mag that fits and functions in an AR." is the minimum compliance level, i.e., what must be met (assuming it was a large capacity 5.56 AR mag to begin with).


can we keep this to the OP

Do I even need to say no or should it just be obvious?

DedEye
04-22-2008, 12:35 AM
can we keep this to the OP

No.

hawk1
04-22-2008, 8:28 AM
I think I was focused a little more on the part where you said:
You are so wrong on this...

It's a shame you have to keep those highcap mags unused in the safe. You know, with the right stock you could get them out of the safe and onto the range :43:

Should have put in my opinion. My mistake and apologies for that.
Can you show me anything from DOJ that says or alludes to the fact you can essentially swap a post-ban mag with a pre-ban mag in whole and not keep at least one part from the pre-ban? Maybe something that says you can swap your magazines "en masse" without regard to Penal Code section 12020(a)(2)?
I know that you can find posts from people saying that is what they read from it. Everything I have seen from those that are in deep with California firearms law on a daily basis say otherwise.

vega
04-22-2008, 8:55 AM
perhaps if we get enough people that want one that will motivate them to crank some out!
so let me know and ill email them when I get a number and see what they can doHow many is enough? You already have 16 yes.

aplinker
04-22-2008, 11:02 AM
How many is enough? You already have 16 yes.

Probably a good 100X's that.

Toolbox X
04-22-2008, 1:50 PM
If Cammenga made a 10/30 version of their Easymag it would probably be popular with a lot of the people who have had trouble finding 10/30 mags to give their frixed mag rifles the look they want.

Toolbox X
04-22-2008, 2:21 PM
Should have put in my opinion. My mistake and apologies for that.
Can you show me anything from DOJ that says or alludes to the fact you can essentially swap a post-ban mag with a pre-ban mag in whole and not keep at least one part from the pre-ban? Maybe something that says you can swap your magazines "en masse" without regard to Penal Code section 12020(a)(2)?
I know that you can find posts from people saying that is what they read from it. Everything I have seen from those that are in deep with California firearms law on a daily basis say otherwise.

12020. (a) (2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

I am not manufacturing anything. To manufacture means to produce from nothing. I am replacing my old parts with new parts. Nothing is being produced, only replaced.

Additionally, I always find it interesting that it is not illegal to find or possess highcap mags. If someone anonymously left a box of 30rd Pmags on your doorstep, according to written law, it would not be illegal to take possession and use those mags.

12020. (a) (1) makes it illegal to possess short barrelled rifles, brass knuckles, etc. But 12020. (a) (2) specifically leaves out possession. See here:

12020. (a) (1) Manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, lends, or possesses

If you did find a box of Pmags on your doorstep, the only law you would need to be concerned about is 12020. (b) (23). You could not take the found highcap mags out of CA and legally bring them back in:

12020. (b) (23) The importation of a large-capacity magazine by a person who lawfully possessed the large-capacity magazine in the state prior to January 1, 2000, lawfully took it out of the state, and is returning to the state with the large-capacity magazine previously lawfully possessed in the state.

You should also note:
12020. (b) (24) The lending or giving of any large-capacity magazine to a person licensed pursuant to Section 12071, or to a gunsmith, for the purposes of maintenance, repair, or modification of that large-capacity magazine.

It is clearly legal to modify a highcap mag, just FYI if you didn't know.

hawk1
04-22-2008, 3:18 PM
12020. (a) (2) Commencing January 1, 2000, manufactures or causes to be manufactured, imports into the state, keeps for sale, or offers or exposes for sale, or who gives, or lends, any large-capacity magazine.

I am not manufacturing anything. To manufacture means to produce from nothing. I am replacing my old parts with new parts. Nothing is being produced, only replaced.

How do you reconcile the words causes to be manufactured and imports into the state? Causes to be manufactured can be argued that you used separate parts and assembled a complete magazine from those parts. Had you used one part from your legal pre-ban mags I don't think an arguement could be made that you caused it to be manufactured by using all the imported parts.
For instance if you purchased a 10/30 Pmag. Then you removed the 10 round spring and added a 30 round spring, removed any other blocks to allow for a 30 round capacity, did you manufacture that magazine? Refering to your statement above, "To manufacture means to produce from nothing" can one say you didn't manufacture it? How about that you caused it to be manufactured?


Additionally, I always find it interesting that it is not illegal to find or possess highcap mags. If someone anonymously left a box of 30rd Pmags on your doorstep, according to written law, it would not be illegal to take possession and use those mags.


In regards to high capacity Pmags or Cammenga mags, how could one legally lay claim to them if he "found" them? Both were manufactured after the magazine ban and thus not legal to import into the state for civilian use. They would have to have been imported by someone. A find of an item that state law made illegal, does not automatically make that item legal just because you found it. Now had you found a box of pre-ban mags, then the state would have to prove that you didn't find them and that you either purchased, were given, or were lent the mags.

It is clearly legal to modify a highcap mag, just FYI if you didn't know.
Never said it wasn't...

fireluvrandrew@gmail.com
04-22-2008, 3:23 PM
HOLY CRAP:eek: :13: :59: what have i created

hawk1
04-22-2008, 3:35 PM
No worry. Dialog is good, thats how we all learn. ;)
It's all good.

fireluvrandrew@gmail.com
04-22-2008, 3:38 PM
Thanks :D
never knew a simple thread would get so explosive, but yes i have to say I learned a alot unintentionally so I guess it is a good thing

hawk1
04-22-2008, 3:44 PM
I wouldn't call it "explosive". :12: :D

tankerman
04-22-2008, 4:00 PM
If Cammenga made a 10/30 version of their Easymag it would probably be popular with a lot of the people who have had trouble finding 10/30 mags to give their frixed mag rifles the look they want.
I don't give sh-t about "the look".

I want function. To me 10/30's look and are ridiculous. I voted to buy that style mag if they make a ten rounder or a 10/20 only if it adds to reliability. Count me out if you are going have them make 10/30's.

Toolbox X
04-22-2008, 5:21 PM
I don't give sh-t about "the look".

I want function. To me 10/30's look and are ridiculous. I voted to buy that style mag if they make a ten rounder or a 10/20 only if it adds to reliability. Count me out if you are going have them make 10/30's.

If you want function, the Cammenga mag is for you. Like I said before, I have one and it is excellent. I like it more than every other AR mag I have.

Toolbox X
04-22-2008, 5:47 PM
How do you reconcile the words causes to be manufactured and imports into the state? Causes to be manufactured can be argued that you used separate parts and assembled a complete magazine from those parts. Had you used one part from your legal pre-ban mags I don't think an argument could be made that you caused it to be manufactured by using all the imported parts.
For instance if you purchased a 10/30 Pmag. Then you removed the 10 round spring and added a 30 round spring, removed any other blocks to allow for a 30 round capacity, did you manufacture that magazine? Referring to your statement above, "To manufacture means to produce from nothing" can one say you didn't manufacture it? How about that you caused it to be manufactured?

The DOJ has clearly said it is okay to import magazine parts into CA and it is 100% okay to repair an already existing preban mag with those parts. They have also said it is not necessary to have any of the original preban mag parts in the mag. To me is it pretty clear that means it is okay to rebuild an existing preban mag with new parts.

Of course a person doing this must clearly understand the laws and under no circumstances are they to import mag parts and assemble them into a magazine that does not replace an existing preban mag already owned. To do so would be a felony.

Just as a person must clearly understand that unscrewing the screw on a Prince50, while the rifle is completely assembled, is completely illegal.

In regards to high capacity Pmags or Cammenga mags, how could one legally lay claim to them if he "found" them? Both were manufactured after the magazine ban and thus not legal to import into the state for civilian use. They would have to have been imported by someone. A find of an item that state law made illegal, does not automatically make that item legal just because you found it. Now had you found a box of pre-ban mags, then the state would have to prove that you didn't find them and that you either purchased, were given, or were lent the mags.

That's what makes the law so funny. You are correct that whoever brought that box of Pmags into CA almost certainly broke the law. You are correct that leaving the box of Pmags on your doorstep could be construed as transferring, which is also illegal.

The hilarity is it is NOT illegal to receive or find highcap mags, nor is it illegal to possess them. Obviously the mags most likely came into the state illegally, but that is irrelevant. It is not illegal to possess the mags once they are in the state. There is no law against possessing them.

I didn't write these stupid laws, I just comply with them as they are written. By no means am I advocating anyone should break the law by leaving highcap mags on their friends doorsteps. That would be against the law and stupid. However, a realistic scenario that does happen is people really do accidentally leave highcap mags at shooting ranges and outdoor areas, and those mags are found by other people. It does happen and in those instances it is legal for you to keep and possess those mags.

I'm simply pointing out what is legal and what is illegal, as written into law.