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paintballdad
08-22-2014, 5:03 PM
Ordered a Daniel Defense mid length upper receiver group from the Brownell's sale last month and finally received it today.
I ordered the Daniel Defense for a build for my daughter's Christmas present and choose it for it's so called "top tier" reputation and expected top notch QC.

What a freaking disappointment. I received an upper with the FSB pins not fully seated, no sling swivel installed and the flash hider is incorrectly timed. The QC tag
shows 3 different initials that handled this upper before shipping out. That is one hell of a QC process. I should have stuck with BCM like I did with my son's build.
Waiting to see how Daniel Defense handles this.

HAH! I probably would have been better off getting a PSA. Rant over. :cuss:

UPDATE: Daniel Defense sent a return label on Monday and the upper receiver group was shipped out yesterday. They have been very professional and courteous in handling this issue. I did call Brownell's to verify if they do order these uppers from DD in this configuration. Customer service was not aware and directed me to their gun tech who confirmed that this is how they order these uppers from DD. I politely asked that this information should be included on the item description since not all their customers want to install a rail system and might not want to deal or have the capacity to finish the assembly.
The description was updated by DD and is now posted on Brownell's item web page.

http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx279/p8ntballdad/IMG_0030_zps4ac123b8.jpg

http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx279/p8ntballdad/IMG_0031_zpsee522280.jpg

http://i763.photobucket.com/albums/xx279/p8ntballdad/IMG_0032_zpsb0e094fc.jpg

CK_32
08-22-2014, 5:16 PM
That's a first I've seen bad about DD.


Interested to see the replies and discussion and anger this is going to bring up of DD fans.


In the market for a DD MK18 upper ATM, as soon as my funds/gf permit it.

M_lizar
08-22-2014, 5:24 PM
I have dd with about 4000 rounds without a single mishap. That rifle must of been built on a Monday or Friday. I agree, going through 3 qc inspections is inexcusable. Give them a call I'm sure they will make it right, I herd there customer service is great.

Merc1138
08-22-2014, 5:26 PM
How the hell do 3 people manage to miss that for QC?

Oceanbob
08-22-2014, 5:27 PM
Wow, just wow....

I bought the same from Brownells only the carbine length and it arrived perfect. The muzzle device was in a small bag.


http://i62.tinypic.com/2qwnepz.jpg

I built this featureless with it.....no issues.


http://i57.tinypic.com/qxs5tj.jpg

Just tap the pins back in.

Oceanbob
08-22-2014, 5:29 PM
Mine had no sling swivel either. But mine according to the tag was test fired.

Yours was not. .?

SMarquez
08-22-2014, 5:34 PM
Good thing you didn't buy a beginner rifle.
If you had bought a PSA you would have just thought, "oh well, it's a PSA".
Buy once cry twice sending it back and waiting again.

Oceanbob
08-22-2014, 5:41 PM
It's a very good barrel. I wouldn't worry about indexing the flash hider or tapping the pins back in. It doesn't include a sling swivel anyway.

:cool2:

Features:

Cold Hammer Forged barrel
16 barrel with Carbine or Mid-Length gas system
Magnetic Particle Inspected on site by Daniel Defense
Chrome lined bore and chamber
Mil-Spec 1-7 twist
5.56x45mm NATO chamber
M4 feedramps
Upper Receiver is machined from a 7075 aluminum forging
Upper is Type III hard coat anodized
F marked front sight base
Chrome moly vanadium steel barrel
Mil-spec heavy phosphate finish on barrel
-28 TPI muzzle threads
.750 OD at gas block
Barrel nut, delta ring assembly, A2 flash hider, gas tube, forward assist, ejection port cover, and front sight installed

Mossy Man
08-22-2014, 5:44 PM
that's terrible

paintballdad
08-22-2014, 5:53 PM
How the hell do 3 people manage to miss that for QC?

Beats the hell out of me.

Wow, just wow....

I bought the same from Brownells only the carbine length and it arrived perfect. The muzzle device was in a small bag.

Just tap the pins back in.

Mine had no sling swivel either. But mine according to the tag was test fired.

Yours was not. .?

Nope. I guess that's another part of QC that was missed.

It's a very good barrel. I wouldn't worry about indexing the flash hider or tapping the pins back in. It doesn't include a sling swivel anyway.

:cool2:



OK, i'll let the swivel issue go. And I know about how good a DD barrel is, I used one on my lightweight build. It might not be a big deal to tap the pins in and index the flash hider but the point is this should not have left DD in this condition. Not with the upper going through 3 different people.

AreWeFree
08-22-2014, 6:32 PM
You bought it from Brownells so call them and send it back, no hassle return right there.

This is the first bad part I've heard of from DD, I really can't remember even hearing negative comments about them.

paintballdad
08-22-2014, 6:38 PM
I've been contacted by DD via email. They initially claimed that they do not set the FSB pins and index the flash hider to help the customer facilitate the installation of a rail system. :eek: I certainly hope they know that there are handguards and rail systems that exists which does not require removal of those items to install.

It looks like this will be going back to DD hopefully on Monday.

Mossy Man
08-22-2014, 6:39 PM
I've been contacted by DD via email. They initially claimed that they do not set the FSB pins and index the flash hider to help the customer facilitate the installation of a rail system.
I certainly hope they know that there are aware that handguards and rail systems exist that do not require removal of those items to install.

It looks like this will be going back to DD hopefully on Monday.

that's a load of BS since if you bought that set up most likely you wanted a fixed A2 fsb, and if you wanted a ff rail you wouldn't want pin holes in your barrel

paintballdad
08-22-2014, 6:42 PM
I called her BS and informed her that other forum members already chimed in with properly installed components. HAH!

Mossy Man
08-22-2014, 6:43 PM
I called her BS and informed her that other forum members already chimed in with properly installed components. HAH!

that's like selling a car with the lugs not on the wheels and saying that they didn't tighten them since most people want aftermarket wheels

paintballdad
08-22-2014, 6:54 PM
You bought it from Brownells so call them and send it back, no hassle return right there.

This is the first bad part I've heard of from DD, I really can't remember even hearing negative comments about them.

I might take this route instead if Brownell's will refund the purchase price & shipping cost so I can just pick up a BCM instead.
I just have an uneasy feeling about keeping this same upper, just not sure what else they eff'd up during assembly.

Mossy Man
08-22-2014, 7:01 PM
I might take this route instead if Brownell's will refund the purchase price & shipping cost so I can just pick up a BCM instead.
I just have an uneasy feeling about keeping this same upper, just not sure what else they eff'd up during assembly.

Dude

$439 comes with free BCM BCG and BCM MOD0 Comp

http://www.bravocompanyusa.com/BCM-16-Mid-Length-Upper-Receiver-Group-p/bcm-urg-mid-16.htm

Merc1138
08-22-2014, 7:04 PM
I've been contacted by DD via email. They initially claimed that they do not set the FSB pins and index the flash hider to help the customer facilitate the installation of a rail system. :eek: I certainly hope they know that there are handguards and rail systems that exists which does not require removal of those items to install.

It looks like this will be going back to DD hopefully on Monday.

LOL.

Ok, so not only did they supposedly have three morons all fail at their shot to maintain proper quality control, there is a fourth idiot replying with nonsense to emails? Hell, one of DD's biggest items for quite a while was drop in rails.

I agree with AreWeFree. Send this information to brownells(the idiot from DD, and the pictures) and get your money back. Brownells will not like having their customers screwed with because DD decided to allow all of their employees to be drunk for the past month if they get enough returns. Brownells has the ability to deal with people a few links higher up the chain at DD than most people do.

isplice
08-22-2014, 7:39 PM
The last three DD barrels I have received (a 16" mid-length, a 14.5" light weight, and a 14.5" M4, all with FSB's) came with the pins not fully set. No big deal for me, as I set them myself. Also, is that FH torqued or just screwed on lightly? Again, no big deal, especially if you want to put on a different FH.

Merc1138
08-22-2014, 7:50 PM
The last three DD barrels I have received (a 16" mid-length, a 14.5" light weight, and a 14.5" M4, all with FSB's) came with the pins not fully set. No big deal for me, as I set them myself. Also, is that FH torqued or just screwed on lightly? Again, no big deal, especially if you want to put on a different FH.

Not exactly acceptable for something people generally expect to bolt to a lower straight out of the box and shoot. That also doesn't explain the lame excuse via email for the 3 nimrods all failing to notice before it left the factory.

paintballdad
08-22-2014, 7:59 PM
The last three DD barrels I have received (a 16" mid-length, a 14.5" light weight, and a 14.5" M4, all with FSB's) came with the pins not fully set. No big deal for me, as I set them myself. Also, is that FH torqued or just screwed on lightly? Again, no big deal, especially if you want to put on a different FH.

I could understand that for just a barrel since it will still have to be built but this after all is supposed to be a complete upper receiver group.

xmikex
08-22-2014, 8:05 PM
Bcm... :)

xmikex
08-22-2014, 8:08 PM
And I'm with OP it might not be a big deal to fix the problems that it came with but it's the fact that he shouldn't have to... It's a brand new upper it should be freaking flawless he paid for what should of been a quality product he should get what he paid for.

It's the principle!

Oceanbob
08-22-2014, 8:13 PM
Not exactly acceptable for something people generally expect to bolt to a lower straight out of the box and shoot. That also doesn't explain the lame excuse via email for the 3 nimrods all failing to notice before it left the factory.

This^^^^

My QC tag says it was test fired. Paintballdad's tag, the test fire box is blank.

Personally, I would just check the torque on the barrel nut and keep the assembly. I like mine.

The barrel is flawless.

This is a Stripped upper receiver group; I think it's fine.

Car83
08-22-2014, 11:09 PM
They sure have had a lot of QC issued lately.

paintballdad
08-23-2014, 7:21 AM
Some have mentioned that this isn't a big deal and that they are fine with it. I for one am not. This is being built for my daughter and I want to build her a trouble free rifle.
I just don't have any confidence in the assembly and QC of this particular upper, who knows what else they missed or screwed up. The person assembling this upper and the others just wan't all there that day.

I I have informed DD's representative that i don't want this upper, I want an upper that's correctly built from the start.

nate76239
08-23-2014, 9:32 AM
That sucks my DD upper came with it having the test fired check box and everything looks ok, the flash hider was not attached and in the box like Oceanbob's post. If the product is supposed to be loosely assembled so you can take it apart it should say so. I had the opposite happen I once bought a DPMS barrel with front sight post and one of the damn pins had to be drilled out it was in there so solid this was just the barrel not attached to the upper. If it was me I'd just tap in the pins myself and move on but you are the customer and have every right to complain. Brownells does have a lifetime satisfaction policy and if DD doesn't come through I'm sure Brownells will. I posted the thread for these uppers in the deals sales section I know the mids were out of stock for a bit and yours was assembled 7/28 I wonder if they were skipping the test fire step to rush product out the door.

highpower
08-23-2014, 9:55 AM
I am not a DD hater, nor am I a fanboy. But I think a couple of observations are in order.

1. If it is a upper assembly that the end user has to finish, it should say so in the sales description.

2. If you don't have the proper barrel blocks to hold it, properly tightening the FH could be very hard to do. I.E. using the front sight block to hold the barrel still while it is indexed. Unless the FH is loose by one full thread, which I don't think it is due to the lock washer being compressed, that one will need a different thickness of lock washer to index correctly.

3. The proper way to set front sight pins is to press them in, not hammer them in place. In fact since they are a tapered pin, they should be reamed to sit deeper than the rear pin is sitting in the OP's picture before they are seated. Otherwise when they are pressed in to the proper depth, they will most likely deform the front sight base.

paintballdad
08-27-2014, 6:01 AM
Update on post #1. Daniel Defense is handling this in a very positive manner. Brownell's gun tech confirmed that they order these uppers in this configuration. The item description has been updated on Brownell's web page.

Munny$hot
08-27-2014, 6:32 AM
I've been contacted by DD via email. They initially claimed that they do not set the FSB pins and index the flash hider to help the customer facilitate the installation of a rail system. :eek: I certainly hope they know that there are handguards and rail systems that exists which does not require removal of those items to install.

It looks like this will be going back to DD hopefully on Monday.
Since this is "Top Tier" you should ask them for a partial refund since one of the reasons you over paid for a upper is for "Excellent Customer Service & QA" Don't get me wrong I like DD I just want to irritate/poke fun at the FanBois.... Also all companies have their problems it's just taken care of and sent back quickly ie the "Excellent Customer Service" you pay all the extra for.

paintballdad
08-27-2014, 7:35 AM
Since this is "Top Tier" you should ask them for a partial refund since one of the reasons you over paid for a upper is for "Excellent Customer Service & QA" Don't get me wrong I like DD I just want to irritate/poke fun at the FanBois.... Also all companies have their problems it's just taken care of and sent back quickly ie the "Excellent Customer Service" you pay all the extra for.

Daniel Defense's customer service have been top notch so far and am very satisfied on how it's being handled even though this should be resolved by Brownell's for failing to include the additional steps in their description.

drew3630
08-27-2014, 7:58 AM
Sorry to hear about your experience. It sounds like they're making it right

I have a couple of DD rifles that have been great. But like someone posted, BCM is having an awesome sale on uppers and they're including a free BCG. If you get a refund on the DD upper, the BCM may be the way to go. I've bought 2 recently (before the started including the free BCG)

Btw, your daughter is very lucky to have a dad who not only teaches her to shoot but will also build her a rifle :)

MellonPopper
08-27-2014, 8:14 AM
Sorry, but I only read 1 person missing on QC. The other two had jobs completely unrelated to quality, and for all we know are 11th grade high school interns cleaning up the barrels and putting them in a box. You can't assume, or label their jobs as fail. If the gun came out of the box with grease and fingerprints all over it, then attack the cleaner, if it came without any foam in the box, then the packager 'CR' can be blamed. But blaming all three for not catching an assembly issue is just spin...

Merc1138
08-27-2014, 8:15 AM
Update on post #1. Daniel Defense is handling this in a very positive manner. Brownell's gun tech confirmed that they order these uppers in this configuration. The item description has been updated on Brownell's web page.

Wow, that's a massive fail on brownell's part then.

Barrel nut, delta ring assembly, A2 flash hider, gas tube, forward assist, ejection port cover, and front sight installed ?Daniel Defense Stripped Upper Receiver Groups are assembled with the end user in mind. The Front Sight Post Taper Pins are intentionally not fully seated to make for easy removal of the front sight post to install a rail system/hand guard (if the part requires removal) and the Flash Hiders are not torqued to specifications. The end-user will need to set the taper pins and properly torque the flash hider to specs upon completion. Daniel Defense also utilizes a round handguard cap on all products.

Yeah, that's something they should have included from the start.

Sorry, but I only read 1 person missing on QC. The other two had jobs completely unrelated to quality, and for all we know are 11th grade high school interns cleaning up the barrels and putting them in a box. You can't assume, or label their jobs as fail. If the gun came out of the box with grease and fingerprints all over it, then attack the cleaner, if it came without any foam in the box, then the packager 'CR' can be blamed. But blaming all three for not catching an assembly issue is just spin...

That's like saying the guy at a car manufacturer who has the job to make sure the wheels are bolted on, should ignore the exhaust just hanging loose underneath the vehicle.

KING_PALM
08-27-2014, 9:55 AM
ITT : people jump the shark and point fingers while not actually knowing that the vendor is in fact the issue at hand.



Its also pretty apparent that Not many people have built an upper with a FSB and FF rail.

mike_the_wino
08-27-2014, 10:10 AM
Nice to see DD stepping up and getting this right.

I take the approach that it's not if something is messed up, it's how that company reacts to correct the problem as the true test of a company.

Oceanbob
08-27-2014, 10:24 AM
Glad it worked out!

DD is a Great Company and so is Brownells!

Obviously a communication problem. Resolved now. :cool2:

I like mine so much I may buy another on sale.

Munny$hot
08-27-2014, 2:03 PM
Daniel Defense's customer service have been top notch so far and am very satisfied on how it's being handled even though this should be resolved by Brownell's for failing to include the additional steps in their description.
Good to know, but still strange why DD would do this since Brownell's could install a UTG rail on it if they wanted to? It's also possible that Brownell's is limited to what type of handguard/accessories is allowed. Either way seems like DD is setting themselves up for failure by allowing this IMHO. It does DD commitment to quality by taking care of this ASAP instead worrying about who's at fault and playing the blame game.

cbritton4
08-27-2014, 2:31 PM
OP, thank you for your purchase. More importantly, thank you for bringing it to our attention that the details regarding the steps to complete the build were not specified. As you know, I have contacted Brownells and provided them with the information we should have provided from the start. They were very quick to update their website to reflect the correct information. Hopefully providing this information will eliminate any confusion in the future.

Everyone here at Daniel Defense truly does care about the quality of the products we put out and we stand behind all of our products 100%. While this product went out in the condition it was designed to, the information stating additional steps would be required were not provided and we will gladly get this back in house and complete the installation for you.

If anyone has any questions or concerns feel free to contact me directly and I will be happy to help.

Caroline Britton
Cbritton@danieldefense.com
Warranty Administrator

OP, thank you again for bringing this to my attention and I'll be in touch as soon as the work is complete! :)

Echidin
08-27-2014, 3:23 PM
I had no doubts DD would take care of the OP's complaint. :thumbsup:

Oceanbob
08-27-2014, 4:18 PM
OP, thank you for your purchase. More importantly, thank you for bringing it to our attention that the details regarding the steps to complete the build were not specified. As you know, I have contacted Brownells and provided them with the information we should have provided from the start. They were very quick to update their website to reflect the correct information. Hopefully providing this information will eliminate any confusion in the future.

Everyone here at Daniel Defense truly does care about the quality of the products we put out and we stand behind all of our products 100%. While this product went out in the condition it was designed to, the information stating additional steps would be required were not provided and we will gladly get this back in house and complete the installation for you.

If anyone has any questions or concerns feel free to contact me directly and I will be happy to help.

Caroline Britton
Cbritton@danieldefense.com
Warranty Administrator

OP, thank you again for bringing this to my attention and I'll be in touch as soon as the work is complete! :)

Class Act Gentlemen. ^^^^^^^^^^^^^

:cool2: