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View Full Version : Transport to/from range shop etc.


PeacePiece
04-19-2008, 1:23 PM
Sorry, tried desperately to search for this but search appears to be broken. I'm going to a shooting range today and want to get the answer fairly soon, so I felt the need to post. :)

I am new to CA and want to ensure I'm following the rules, as stupid as many of us (myself included) think they are.

I do not have a CCW.

I want to transport two of my guns from my home to the shooting range legally. If they are unloaded and locked in the trunk until arrival at the range, is that OK?

Can I put them in a knapsack/bookbag or something? Or - would that be considered carrying concealed when I remove the knapsack and carry it into the range?

I know they can't be loaded.

Thanks guys.

Librarian
04-19-2008, 1:31 PM
Sorry, tried desperately to search for this but search appears to be broken. I'm going to a shooting range today and want to get the answer fairly soon, so I felt the need to post. :)

I am new to CA and want to ensure I'm following the rules, as stupid as many of us (myself included) think they are.

I do not have a CCW.

I want to transport two of my guns from my home to the shooting range legally. If they are unloaded and locked in the trunk until arrival at the range, is that OK?

Can I put them in a knapsack/bookbag or something? Or - would that be considered carrying concealed when I remove the knapsack and carry it into the range?

I know they can't be loaded.

Thanks guys.
HANDGUNS must be carried, unloaded, in a locked container. For purposes of transport, your locked trunk is sufficient, and carrying them in a bag is fine.

IF you have to move the handguns through a publicly accessible area, they must STILL be in a locked container - like, from the parking lot to the firing line.

Any lockable bag, that cannot be opened without opening or removing the lock, is fine; 'hard' cases are perceived to be better by many.

LONG GUNS merely must be unloaded, unless you drive through a school zone - THEN they have to be in a locked case. I believe just in the trunk is fine.

Decoligny
04-19-2008, 1:53 PM
HANDGUNS must be carried, unloaded, in a locked container. For purposes of transport, your locked trunk is sufficient, and carrying them in a bag is fine.

Handguns may also be carried openly in a holster on your belt, if unloaded. The only issue is if you are knowingly driving within 1,000 feet of a school zone.

IF you have to move the handguns through a publicly accessible area, they must STILL be in a locked container - like, from the parking lot to the firing line.

Again, Unloaded open carry is also legal from the parking lot to the the range. However, some ranges have rules that require handguns to be in a case until at the firing line.

LONG GUNS merely must be unloaded, unless you drive through a school zone - THEN they have to be in a locked case. I believe just in the trunk is fine.

Absolutely correct on the long guns.

PeacePiece
04-19-2008, 6:08 PM
Thanks guys. We followed your advice and had a good day shooting.

Greg-Dawg
04-19-2008, 9:04 PM
Here's some more reading material for you:

http://caag.state.ca.us/firearms/

Richie Rich
04-19-2008, 9:36 PM
Are you guys sure about the parking lot thing?

Provided the range is private property and you have the owners permission to have firearms on the property, then wouldn't the transport regulations be null and void once on range grounds ? I would imagine that being a gun range, consent to posess firearms by the owner would be implied.

Now if the range is in a shopping mall or some other shared property, then I could see the law still being in force.

Then again, nothing would surprise me in this goofy state.

Decoligny
04-19-2008, 9:49 PM
Are you guys sure about the parking lot thing?

Provided the range is private property and you have the owners permission to have firearms on the property, then wouldn't the transport regulations be null and void once on range grounds ? I would imagine that being a gun range, consent to posess firearms by the owner would be implied.

Now if the range is in a shopping mall or some other shared property, then I could see the law still being in force.

Then again, nothing would surprise me in this goofy state.

IIRC in most cases if the parking lot is open for access by the general public then it is treated like public property as far as the police are concerned. If it is a private parking lot wiith restricted access (like with a passcard required to open a gate) then it is treated like private property.

Librarian
04-19-2008, 9:52 PM
Are you guys sure about the parking lot thing?Yes, but it doesn't seem likely that it would regularly occur to LEO to look at it that way. I certainly agree that one ought to expect folks to move their handguns from the car to the line, and the locked case requirement seems a bit like overkill, but if one wishes to be scrupulously correct, that's the Right Thing To Do (TM).

It's just easier all around - it covers all the eventualities - to have a locked case to transport handguns. Doesn't have to be much of a case or much of a lock, though moderately priced ($25-$50) cases are commonly available that would obviously satisfy most folks' idea of a 'locked case'. Just one example (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=&id=0005618222779a&navCount=0&podId=0005618&parentId=&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=XH&rid=&parentType=&indexId=&cmCat=netcon&cm_ven=netcon&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=doskocil%20handgun%20case&cm_ite=netcon). Another (http://www.gunaccessoriesusa.com/guncases/doskocil/handguncases.htm).

SmithAndJohnson
04-20-2008, 12:02 AM
It's just easier all around - it covers all the eventualities - to have a locked case to transport handguns. Doesn't have to be much of a case or much of a lock, though moderately priced ($25-$50) cases are commonly available that would obviously satisfy most folks' idea of a 'locked case'. Just one example (http://www.cabelas.com/cabelas/en/templates/product/standard-item.jsp?_DARGS=/cabelas/en/common/catalog/item-link.jsp_A&_DAV=&id=0005618222779a&navCount=0&podId=0005618&parentId=&masterpathid=&navAction=push&catalogCode=XH&rid=&parentType=&indexId=&cmCat=netcon&cm_ven=netcon&cm_cat=Google&cm_pla=doskocil%20handgun%20case&cm_ite=netcon). Another (http://www.gunaccessoriesusa.com/guncases/doskocil/handguncases.htm).
The earlier assertion that some people prefer hard cases, and giving only hard cases as examples of "cheap" lockable cases seems like *extreme* paranoia.

Lockable soft cases are 100% compliant with the law, both in letter and spirit. Take just about anything from this page (http://www.boytharness.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=31_25&osCsid=7e08c5e40b1d60f90394e263184e0585) as an example.

Richie Rich
04-20-2008, 9:14 AM
IIRC in most cases if the parking lot is open for access by the general public then it is treated like public property as far as the police are concerned. If it is a private parking lot wiith restricted access (like with a passcard required to open a gate) then it is treated like private property.

Exactly what I was thinking.

The local indoor range has a shared parking lot, so the regulations would be in force. The outdoor range is a members only place with a passcode required to open the gate.

I would agree that the requirement is overlooked in parking lots. But a LEO with an axe to grind (or an anti gun sheriff) could make sure to have someone watching the parking lot, just waiting to nail someone in the 10 foot walk from the "secure" car trunk to the front door of the range.

I will be making sure my range bag is locked.

Librarian
04-20-2008, 10:33 AM
The earlier assertion that some people prefer hard cases, and giving only hard cases as examples of "cheap" lockable cases seems like *extreme* paranoia.

Lockable soft cases are 100% compliant with the law, both in letter and spirit. Take just about anything from this page (http://www.boytharness.com/catalog/index.php?cPath=31_25&osCsid=7e08c5e40b1d60f90394e263184e0585) as an example.
Hey, I just gave examples - never claimed that was a complete or even representative list. As you say, lockable soft cases also meet the requirements. Just happened I could remember the name of one hard case manufacturer and I can't remember the names of any soft case manufacturers (and I don't own any of the ones at the links I provided).

SmithAndJohnson
04-20-2008, 10:44 AM
Hey, I just gave examples - never claimed that was a complete or even representative list. As you say, lockable soft cases also meet the requirements. Just happened I could remember the name of one hard case manufacturer and I can't remember the names of any soft case manufacturers (and I don't own any of the ones at the links I provided).
Sorry, didn't mean to offend.

We all have our nit picks that pop up here often. Magazine vs clip, saying you can transport ammo in the same case as the handgun, etc.

Apparently I've discovered mine. =D

/me hugs his lockable soft cases

Liberty1
04-20-2008, 11:55 AM
Become a member of that established range and a locked case is NOT required even during transport. This exemption is the SAME exemption language that exempts Peace Officers, active or retired, and people issued Carry Licenses from the 12025 concealed prohibition.

http://law.justia.com/california/codes/pen/12020-12040.html

12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:

(a) (1) (A) Any peace officer, listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2,
or subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, whether active or honorably
retired, other duly appointed peace officers, honorably retired peace
officers listed in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5, other honorably
retired peace officers...

(f) Members of any club or organization organized for the purpose
of practicing shooting at targets upon established target ranges,
whether public or private, while the members are using pistols,
revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the
person upon the target ranges, or transporting these firearms
unloaded when going to and from the ranges...

(j) The carrying of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person by a person who is authorized to
carry that weapon in a concealed manner pursuant to Article 3
(commencing with Section 12050).

Exempt is exempt is exempt.

mymonkeyman
04-20-2008, 12:04 PM
Are you guys sure about the parking lot thing?

Provided the range is private property and you have the owners permission to have firearms on the property, then wouldn't the transport regulations be null and void once on range grounds ? I would imagine that being a gun range, consent to posess firearms by the owner would be implied.

Now if the range is in a shopping mall or some other shared property, then I could see the law still being in force.

Then again, nothing would surprise me in this goofy state.

They aren't' "transport regulations" they are state criminal law, which is something that does get "voided" by state common law created property rights. The only question is whether you fall within a statutory exception.

12025 bans concealed carry. 12026 allows carrying concealed at your "place of residence," "place of business" or "private property" owned or controlled by you. A public shooting range does not fall under these, unless you are an employee of the range. Plenty of 12026.1 and 12026.2 exceptions can apply to a shooting range, such as the exception for transporting the handgun to and from a car, and the exception for carrying directly to or from a target range, BUT 12026.1 and 12026.2 exceptions also require you to carry the gun unloaded in a locked container.

The only real applicable exception that could get you out of the locked container is 12027(f) which says:

Members of any club or organization organized for the purpose
of practicing shooting at targets upon established target ranges,
whether public or private, while the members are using pistols,
revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the
person upon the target ranges, or transporting these firearms
unloaded when going to and from the ranges.

This is kind of ambiguous, but it could mean that anyone who is a member of a shooting club does not need a locked container to take to or from the car to any range, or it could mean only when there is some kind of club event when more than 1 member is shooting (or other things in between). At best it only gets you out of the locked container rule, only applies if you are a member of a shooting club, and is unlikely to help you during your police encounter (cops don't know the ins and outs of the incredibly complex concealed and loaded statutes).

Liberty1
04-20-2008, 1:19 PM
12027. Section 12025 does not apply to, or affect, any of the
following:

(a) (1) (A) Any peace officer, listed in Section 830.1 or 830.2,
or subdivision (a) of Section 830.33, whether active or honorably
retired, other duly appointed peace officers, honorably retired peace
officers listed in subdivision (c) of Section 830.5, other honorably
retired peace officers...

(f) Members of any club or organization organized for the purpose
of practicing shooting at targets upon established target ranges,
whether public or private, while the members are using pistols,
revolvers, or other firearms capable of being concealed upon the
person upon the target ranges, or transporting these firearms
unloaded when going to and from the ranges...

(j) The carrying of a pistol, revolver, or other firearm capable
of being concealed upon the person by a person who is authorized to
carry that weapon in a concealed manner pursuant to Article 3
(commencing with Section 12050).

For some reason I have enough faith in most LE that if the above PC was printed out and available for review or the "member" new the code sections and claimed exemption, that if the "member" was actually going to or from the range and had the other props of that activity, there would be little delay absent another violation of law. Yes, traveling unloaded in a locked container is legally "safer" but so is not owning firearms.

And the additional benefit of this exemption is that if loaded mags are separate from the gun this "member carrying unloaded and concealed" is seconds away from a loaded firearm should a violent threat materialize. An assault that could result from being seen at a range with firearms which the assailant would normally assume are locked up, unloaded, and inaccessible.