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bernieb90
04-18-2008, 11:28 PM
I am confused regarding AP ammunition laws.

Federal law defines AP ammunition as:
(i) a projectile or projectile core which may be used in a handgun and which is constructed entirely (excluding the presence of traces of other substances) from one or a combination of tungsten alloys, steel, iron, brass, bronze, beryllium copper, or depleted uranium; or

(does this imply that pure copper bullets are exempt from this law?)

(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.

(C) The term 'armor piercing ammunition' does not include shotgun shot required by Federal or State environmental or game regulations for hunting purposes, a frangible projectile designed for target shooting, a projectile which the Secretary finds is primarily intended to be used for sporting purposes, or any other projectile or projectile core which the Secretary finds is intended to be used for industrial purposes, including a charge used in an oil and gas well perforating device.



The confusion lies in the legality of Barnes as well as other copper bullets. With the ban of lead projectiles in Condor areas solid copper bullets may be the only alternative for hunters and target shooters.

California laws regarding AP are vauge at best and seems to be fairly open to interpretation.



It is unlawful for any person to manufacture, sell, or knowingly possess or transport handgun
ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor. (Penal Code 12320, 12321.)
Handgun ammunition means ammunition principally for use in pistols, revolvers, and other
firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of section 12001,
notwithstanding that the ammunition may also be used in some rifles. (Penal Code 12323(a).)
Handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor means any ammunition,
except a shotgun shell or ammunition primarily designed for use in rifles, that is designed primarily
to penetrate a body vest or body shield. (Penal Code 12323(b).)
Body vest or shield means any bullet-resistant material intended to provide ballistic and trauma
protection for the wearer or holder. (Penal Code 12323(c).)


What are the legal issues then with solid copper handgun bullets, both HPs and solids?

mymonkeyman
04-18-2008, 11:32 PM
I doubt they could prosecute you for using Barnes to hunt when the DFG approved it. I also heard, but am not sure, that the ATF approved the Barnes bullets as non AP ammo.

Plus no jacket means the jacket isn't 25% of the weight of the bullet, the jacket is 0% of the weight of the bullet.

M. Sage
04-18-2008, 11:43 PM
Copper is exempt, it's too soft to work for armor piercing purposes anyway. Heck, Magtech sells full copper handgun ammo: http://www.magtechammunition.com/sitepages/pid59.php

There shouldn't really be any confusion as to the legality of copper ammo.

bernieb90
04-19-2008, 1:30 AM
Times are changing and machining your own bullets may have to replace casting your own. I just don't want to break any laws in the process.

Fjold
04-19-2008, 8:47 AM
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.


All copper bullets have no jacket or core, they're homogeneous. So the restriction above don't apply.

M. Sage
04-19-2008, 9:05 AM
(ii) a full jacketed projectile larger than .22 caliber designed and intended for use in a handgun and whose jacket has a weight of more than 25 percent of the total weight of the projectile.


All copper bullets have no jacket or core, they're homogeneous. So the restriction above don't apply.

I don't know if they're approved for condors, but some of the copper I've seen has a tungsten weight in the rear, IIRC. Copper's sectional density sucks. :p I'm not sure which Barnes bullets have that ballast in them, though. Still doesn't matter, since the copper isn't a jacket.

Times are changing and machining your own bullets may have to replace casting your own. I just don't want to break any laws in the process.

Won't work, the bullets you hunt with have to be on the approved list.

Yankee Clipper
04-19-2008, 10:36 AM
This is not really germane to the subject at hand but I'm still surprised that we worry about the health of vultures ("Condor is the name for two species of New World vultures" - Wikipedia) but times-are-a-changing.

bernieb90
04-19-2008, 10:46 AM
Looks like DFG has some provisions for the use of projectiles that are not on their list.

I shoot a 338 Lapua and cannot find any listings at
http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/docs/nonlead-ammo-ca.pdf, which
means I will have to buy custom ammunition or reload them myself. How will the
warden in the field determine that my ammunition is legal?
A training program will be implemented to familiarize field wardens with legal projectiles.
It is possible that a warden may seize a cartridge to inspect the bullet under controlled
conditions at a later time.

How will wardens check muzzle-loading rifles?

While hunting, any projectile in your possession may be inspected by wardens. On rare
instances, a warden may seize the weapon for removal of the projectile under controlled
conditions or fire the weapon into a medium to retrieve the projectile.

ar15barrels
04-19-2008, 11:08 AM
I am confused regarding AP ammunition laws.

California laws regarding AP are vauge at best and seems to be fairly open to interpretation.

It is unlawful for any person to manufacture, sell, or knowingly possess or transport handgun
ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor. (Penal Code 12320, 12321.)
Handgun ammunition means ammunition principally for use in pistols, revolvers, and other
firearms capable of being concealed upon the person, as defined in subdivision (a) of section 12001,
notwithstanding that the ammunition may also be used in some rifles. (Penal Code 12323(a).)
Handgun ammunition designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor means any ammunition,
except a shotgun shell or ammunition primarily designed for use in rifles, that is designed primarily
to penetrate a body vest or body shield. (Penal Code 12323(b).)
Body vest or shield means any bullet-resistant material intended to provide ballistic and trauma
protection for the wearer or holder. (Penal Code 12323(c).)

Barnes solid copper bullets were not "designed primarily to penetrate metal or armor".
They were designed primarily to penetrate animals.