To All Of You Who Use Paypal

[Kaptain]

today, i went to log into my paypal account and found it to be "limited" ( i have almost a grand in there) so i called them on the phone. they told me that because some of the items ive purchased ( bullets,gun related items,etc) are 'gun related' they FROZE MY ACCOUNT and that it would take up to 90 DAYS to figure out.

she told me that they could "hold" my finds indefiniately, and that if the items were gun related, that they WOULD.


word to the wise, they stiffed me for almost $1000 TODAY. be careful!

[rawcut]

they cant legally do that, can they? if anything, they should give your money back and close your account. lawsuit?

[Max-the-Silent]

They have, they can, and they'll keep doing it. It's legal, it's in the users agreement, and Paypal can and will put a "hold" on the bank account used to set up the PP account.

Just say NO to Paypal.

they cant legally do that, can they? if anything, they should give your money back and close your account. lawsuit?

[ke6guj]

Paypal has been like that for a couple years. There are things you can do to help protect you from Paypal when they do somehting like this: DOn't keeps lots of money in your account and don't link it to a "real" checking account with important money in it. My paypal account is linked to a a free credit union account and any money sent to my paypal account is immediately transfered out to my checking account. Once at the checking account, it is moved to either a savings account or transfered to my primary checking account. The "paypal" checking account has no overdraft protection so they can't put me in the negative.

Also, don't use scary terms like bullets, gun related items in your payment description when sending money. If I sell something and tell you to send discrete paypal funds, and you put in firearm terms in the payment and get my account locked, I'm gonna be pissed royally.

Unfortunately, paypal is the most common electronic money transfer setup out there.

[ke6guj]

Read all the horror stories at http://www.paypalsucks.com/ . They are teh debil, but sometimes its the only game in town.:reddevil:

[MrNiceGuy]

I know Paypal can "freeze" the $$ in the "Paypal Account".
But I don't think Paypal has the authority to freeze the $$ in my bank's linked checking account.
I doubt my bank or any bank is going to let Paypal freeze the bank's $$.
It won't be in the bank's interest since some of the customer's transactions in the checking account can generate fee revenue for the bank.
But who knows, I'm just guessing here.

[5150Marcelo]

Was there a purchase you had on there not discreet? I havent had a prob yet.

[USN CHIEF]

Read all the horror stories at http://www.paypalsucks.com/ . They are teh debil, but sometimes its the only game in town.:reddevil:

Oh man... I was not aware of none of that BS.. "F" Pay Pal:mad:

[hoffman259]

This is why I dont use paypal for anything period. They are not the only game in town. USPS MO work great for buying gun related items.

[Steve-O]

That exact reason (albeit with less cash) is why I stopped using paypal for anything. Now it is USPS Money Orders or nothing.

Paypal blows.

edit to add - hoffman and I think alike apparently ;)

[Sig357]

I use paypal from time to time. I just never put a description of what I am buying. However a rarely sell anything using paypal out of fear of what description the buyer will enter. USPS M.O. is the way to go.

[Kaptain]

only items ive bought off of ebay

its like they allow certain things to be sold and monies collected via paypal, but the second they feel like it all of the sudden they whack ya.

the account i have my paypal account linked to is seperate from my other account, and i generally do the same thing. take paypal as payment, then transfer the money to my bank account, and THEN after it clears, transfer those monies to my regular account. one thing they legally cant do is pull money from your checking account though unless you authorize it.

i already called the bank and canceled my card and had a new one issued. i explained the situation to the banker on the phone, and he said that if any transactions come up on there i didnt specifically authorize, contact them and they will take care of it. i think though, just to be on the safe side tomorrow im going to cancel the account. i only used it for paypal anyway


one option, just in case you guys dont know about it is a regular bank money transfer. ive done it several times. all you need do is give the "payer" your accouint number, and bank and have them go to their bank and transfer the funds to you. they ( the payer) cant do anything with your account with just the account number exept put money in, they cant take money out. plus, your bank doesnt charge for that,unlike paypal.....

yea, im done with those suckers. i did speak to a lawyer, and he said that yes, even though there user agreement says that they can freeze and hold your funds, if you sue them in small claims court, chances of them showing are virtually nil, and if they dont show, you get a judgment in your favor. plus, he said that the second that there served, they will most likely be on the phone wanting to resolve it quickly and give you your money.

we may find out cause im going to look into going that route. it would cost them more to come to court then it would to pay, plus, they cant have a lawyer represent them in small claims.

[packnrat]

putting money into a paypal account is like giveing money to the brady campaign.



try to get your money out and close the account.

and encourage all you know to not use paypal for anything.


what is up with the spell check feature? just used it and it wanted to "respell" my words...with the wrong spelling...ie:
me - paypay
spell check - pawpaw?


.

[Vectrexer]

I guess I have been lucky so far. Not one freeze or warning of a freeze with any of my transactions via PayPaly payment , or using their card.

Though I do admit to hearing a lot of stories about the problems

[Xerxes]

today, i went to log into my paypal account and found it to be "limited" ( i have almost a grand in there) so i called them on the phone. they told me that because some of the items ive purchased ( bullets,gun related items,etc) are 'gun related' they FROZE MY ACCOUNT and that it would take up to 90 DAYS to figure out.

she told me that they could "hold" my finds indefiniately, and that if the items were gun related, that they WOULD.


word to the wise, they stiffed me for almost $1000 TODAY. be careful!

How did they say they know this to be true.

Also my understanding is that you agree to let paypal fine you up to $3,000 per each violation for gun related or other prohibited item like as if they are the government. Most everything they prohibit is illegal which makes sense, prohibiting something legal does not.

I would think if someone has balls enough that could do a class action suit. Unfortunately thanks to the dumb Bush dubya the 2nd he made it harder to sue with class action suits by not allowing to easily collect for the injured masses that did not file thus not a big payday for the lawyers who would fight and win such a suit.

For info when ebay seizes money they never give it back. I do not know about your 90 day as I know of stories about 6 months where they investigate then afterwards inform you they are keeping the money because you did not present a case for returning it though they never gave you an opportunity to do such as that is super secret information that you have to dig out on your own.

for $heots and giggles why not take them to small claims court and waste their money. Make a claim that they did not provide the information in Spanish as an option as is required by California law so you did not understand it thus avoiding any small print contract they make you scroll for 800 pages to read about and change daily. I think you could win such in small claims court thus avoiding the binding arbitration clause then you could put in a lean against ebay headquarters.

More seriously though I do believe ebay/paypal uses spyware to collect info off your computer to use against you and to track your info.

I do wish the NRA would sue the pants off of these idiots for maybe nothing more than wasting their time and money and in doing so helping all legal and law abiding gun owners to realize they are an anti-gun organization.

This corporation is so large that they are a monopoly and as such should be heavily regulated by the government to prevent a few idiots from running the store called USofA.:(

I think a few smart bombs on ebay headquarters would do the world allot of good.

[PTL]

Why do they have to be such jerks!? PayPal is such a good service if it was not for this cruddy stuff! That is really shameful for them to take the money! Agreement or no agreement there should be some sort of protection. :mad:

[bigdave1121]

I just like paypal because you have means of retribution if a buyer or seller rips you off. If you do the money order thing, then you don't have that protection.

[low94noma]

I immediately transfer the funds from paypal to my account....

[4D5auto]

I always transfer when I have something in Pay-Pal. Always leave a Zero balance!

[acolytes]

I bought some accessories for some of my guns from a website ( I forot which one) but when I checked out, it directed me to paypal for payment. That's weird I had no problems with the transaction.

[Omega13device]

There is an easy way to use PayPal without problems: don't mention anything about gun stuff.

If you're selling something, use the "request money" function so the buyer doesn't have a chance to mention "gun parts" or anything like that.

[RedDawn]

Pay Pal is weird like that. They let some things slide, and wack people for others. I wouldn't gamble with it altogether. I use USPS money orders for my hobbies, and PayPal *cringe* for non gun stuff on Ebay.

[jamesob]

they can freeze your account but they cannot keep your money. once you get your money do like i do, money orders. i use money orders for everything.

[artherd]

After many requests, I am working on a solution to this problem.

[liketoshoot]

Although I have not had a problem with paypal ,YET, I only keep 100.00 in my account to cover my ebay fees and small purchases. it is easier then getting a money order everytime but for large purchases I use credit or check.
I have had no trouble buying holsters on ebay or other gun stuff, so I don't know?????????????????
I guess it comes down to cover your ***** and don't use it for gun related purchases.

[GenLee]

I have a paypal debit card with the Master Card emblem does MC offer any aditional protection for this kind of S**T? or is it all up to paypal? i guess I should re-read the user agreements on all involved?

[hawk1]

There is an easy way to use PayPal without problems: don't mention anything about gun stuff.

If you're selling something, use the "request money" function so the buyer doesn't have a chance to mention "gun parts" or anything like that.

+1 Great advice here.

[gosparx]

I use to use PayPal to buy things from eBay for years. (music, videos, toys, gun accessories, RC truck parts, just about anything). Although I would occasionally run into a seller who REFUSED to use PayPal because he said they were a rip off and impossible to work with. At the time I thought he was being difficult and a pain... now I know what he was beaching about.

One day (about a year or two ago) I received an email saying I had PERMANENTLY been banned from EVER using PayPal. I called and they clarify that it was PERMANENT and there was no avenue or recourse to argue or disagree with their 'decision'. I even tried 'going up the ladder' of authority a few rungs, but to no avail. (and that almost always works)

Apparently there was a seller on eBay that I had purchased some stuff from. After some time (almost a year ago) eBay/PayPal (since they are one and the same) found out about some of the stuff this seller was selling and decided that it violated their "policy" and sense of "morality". So they shut down this seller... BUT THEN, being thorough little SOBs... they went after all people who had purchased stuff from this seller and banned them as well.

I was one of those that they tracked down and they locked my account for 6 months permanently banned from EVER using PayPal.

Fortunately I NEVER left any money in my account

I have not checked in the last year or so to see if the ban really was 'permanent', but even if I called and found out I could use my account again, I don't think I would start to regularly use them. Shaking the hand of the devil once was enough for me.

There have come times, where there really isn't much choice but to pay for something via PayPal. Fortunately (I guess it's fortunate) my son still has an account with them and I do stuff through his account, but only if I really feel I have to or need to or literally have no choice.

On the up side and to be honest, it has saved me money since I no longer troll eBay looking and buying crap I don't need. (leaves me more money to fund my EBR disease!)

I need to do some research as to what other options are out there for both selling firearms related goodies (I am aware of the various gun auction sights) But I would like to learn of other ways of working around/avoiding PayPal and eBay.

[GJJ]

I emptied my paypal account today.

[xrMike]

PaYpAl? What is this thing?

USPS MO work great for buying gun related items.All my interwebs transactions utilize this method too.

[69Mach1]

We really need to start encouraging all calgunners to sign up for gearpay. They are pro-gun. I even emailed them asking if they had an incentive program for gun forum members, but said they didn't to keep costs down.

https://www.gearpay.com/?x=home&

[troyus]

I set up a secondary checking account just for paypal with less than 100 in it at all times. I always pull money out of my paypal ASAP. Because paypal sucks, but sometimes it is useful.

[JeffM]

With paypal it is nice to be able to get money back fast if you get screwed, but with a Postal Money Order you do have recourse as well. Mail fraud is a serious crime.

[MrNiceGuy]

Bottom line is just keep the description vague if you choose to use Paypal.
Like any business or normal human beings they want to make $$.
They WANT your $$ but they also have an image to uphold (don't ask me what BS image they're going for).
So keep it on the down low and they WILL turn a blind eye and take your $$ no questions asked.

[scewper]

If you keep a $0 balance in your paypal account, get disputed and lose or whatever dumb s**t paypal dreams up, can't they put a collections for the money on your credit?

[Charliegone]

I never keep more than 20 dollars in there. EVER. It's just no worth it especially with the mob tactics they employ.

[bigmike82]

What gives? The user agreement doesn't say ANYTHING about guns.

http://www.paypal.com/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/policy_payments-outside

10.6 Acceptable Use Policy Violation - User Fines. If you violate the Acceptable Use Policy as set forth below in clauses (a), (b), (c), or (d) below, then we may hold your funds up to 180 Days, may fine you up to $2,500.00 USD for each such violation and may take legal action against you to recover additional losses we incur. You acknowledge and agree that a fine up to $2,500.00 USD is presently a reasonable minimum estimate of PayPals damages, considering all currently existing circumstances, including the relationship of the sum to the range of harm to PayPal that reasonably could be anticipated and the anticipation that proof of actual damages may be impractical or extremely difficult. PayPal may deduct such fines directly from any existing Balance in the offending Account, or any other PayPal Account you control. The specific activities that may subject you to fines by PayPal are:

Using the Service to receive payments for any sexually oriented or obscene materials or services in violation of the Acceptable Use Policy;


Using the Service to receive payments for any narcotics, other controlled substances, steroids or prescription drugs in violation of the Acceptable Use Policy; or


Using the Service to receive payments for wagers, gambling debts or gambling winnings, regardless of the location or type of gambling activity in violation of the Acceptable Use policy; or


Using the Service to receive payments for tobacco products in violation of the Acceptable Use Policy.

10.7 Attorneys Fees for Acceptable Use Policy Litigation/Arbitration. If either you or PayPal commence litigation or arbitration in connection with a fine or other action taken related to our Acceptable Use Policy, the prevailing party will be entitled to recover reasonable attorneys fees and costs in addition to any other relief to which it may be entitled.

[Omega13device]

What gives? The user agreement doesn't say ANYTHING about guns.

No, but the AUP does and a violation of the AUP is a breach of the user agreement...

From the PayPal AUP at https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=p/gen/ua/use/index_frame-outside

You may not use the PayPal service for activities that:

violate any law, statute, ordinance or regulation


relate to sales of (a) narcotics, steroids, certain controlled substances or other products that present a risk to consumer safety, (b) drug paraphernalia, (c) items that encourage, promote, facilitate or instruct others to engage in illegal activity, (d) items that promote hate, violence, racial intolerance, or the financial exploitation of a crime, (e) items that are considered obscene, (f) items that infringe or violate any copyright, trademark, right of publicity or privacy or any other proprietary right under the laws of any jurisdiction, (g) certain sexually oriented materials or services, or (h) certain firearms, firearm parts or accessories, ammunition, weapons or knives

[Satex]

People don't get it. Don't link a Paypal account to your checking account - period! Don't keep over $100 in your Paypal account. If you have more than that, issue a check by mail to yourself.

[5968]

I haven't used paypal or ebay for years. With their unfriendly view towards gun owners, I will never use them again.

[SchooBaka]

I've heard something in the past about paypal being anti gun, but this is the first I've heard of them doing something like this.
Screw paypal; gonna close my account and let them know why.:chris:

[compulsivegunbuyer]

How can Paypal freeze your checking account? They are not in charge of your bank.

[jandmtv]

they can freeze funds in your paypal account for ever! they did it to me 4 years ago and i still have not received my $3500 back. but they can not touch your check account.

in other words PAYPAL SUCKS!!!! use money orders!

[wasabe]

My credit card has the ability to create Virtual Card Numbers for shopping online, your actual card number is never used or exposed. So I set one up for linking to my Paypal acct, it is limited to $300 and expires in 3 months. I just extend it as needed The checking acct on my Paypal acct is one I only ever have a couple hundred bucks in. Weather or not Paypal is evil or not, it's prudent to be careful with a company you give so much access to your financial accounts.



We really need to start encouraging all calgunners to sign up for gearpay. They are pro-gun. I even emailed them asking if they had an incentive program for gun forum members, but said they didn't to keep costs down.

https://www.gearpay.com/?x=home&

More importantly the vendors we frequent need to accept this form payment. All of us can sign up for it, but if the vendors don't take it we cant use it.

[anyracoon]

PayPal is owned by E-Bay! Very Anti-Gun. They dropped all bullet/brass componets plus anthing that can go on a AW. To bad I used to buy almost all my bullets on E-Bay.

[maxicon]

I got ripped off on a scope on ebay recently, and Paypal fixed it for me and reversed the payment. I was worried, since it was a gun accessory, but they didn't seem to have a problem with it (yet).

It may still cause trouble, but so far, it's been OK.