PDA

View Full Version : Short Action Cartridge


Prc329
04-16-2008, 12:07 PM
What would you use and why in a mag fed short action cartridge?

This question popped into my head after reading about this rifle

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek084.html

That is a pretty slick setup. It got me wondering what other cartridges would people want to use in a tactical type precision rifle.

Vu 308
04-16-2008, 12:24 PM
PRC,

I have read the same article and Zak does some great work. Super smart guy.

Personally if I only had one rifle I would go 308win.

Why:
Barrel life.
Solid out to 800yards with 175s or 155s. (The majority of tac comps are shot inside 800) I believe.
Easy to load for.
Components are plentiful.
Great all around cartridge.
Match ammo is easy to get a hold of if you don't reload.
The 308win is an accurate cartridge.

Now if I had a 2nd rifle in SA.
260rem is what I went with for the following reasons.
Ballistically it almost matches my 300WM with 190s going 2900FPS..less the knock down power.
Brass is cheap so when you lose a few hundred at an event like SHC you won't cry. 500 Rem brass cost about 180.00
Easy to load for.
Recoil is so light its almost impossible to come off target unless you are in some funky shooting position.
Barrel life is in the 2500 to 3000
Beats the 6.5x47 with a 139gn Scenar...most guys find the 123gn Scenar to be most effective in a 6.5x47
If built right the rifle can shoot well under 1/2MOA..if shooter can hold that tight.
With a bullet like a 139gn Scenar you can miss read the wind a lil and still get a hit depending on size of target.

rksimple
04-16-2008, 2:09 PM
I read that article and thought that it might be a nice all around caliber. But then, the 260 is great as well, and it is more popular. The barrel life may be a bit less with the 260, but not much. Plus it can push the 139's faster than the 6.5x47.

I've heard varying reports on the barrel life of the 260, but most would put it around 3000-3500. Some have gone higher. If I didn't care about barrel life, I'd go with either a 243 with DTAC's at 3100 or a 7wsm with 180 bergers at 2900. The 243 would be for most matches not requiring knocking over plates and such. The 7wsm for knocking down plates or having to spot misses at distance (a la ASC). With barrel life being a consideration, it seems to always go back to the 308. Adequate performance and great barrel life.

PistolPete75
04-16-2008, 7:06 PM
if you really like to shoot, it would be a barrel change every year on a .260

Cypriss32
04-16-2008, 7:13 PM
Build 2 rifles:
308 to practices
7wsm for matchs

Thats all you really need. Anything that can be done, 7wsm will be better then ALMOST anything!

Vu 308
04-16-2008, 7:45 PM
7WSM...I beg to differ on that.

The 7WSM barrel life is crappy if you push it to it's maximum potiential.

Try a high round count and long string of fire matches in 90 degrees.

Gotta love how the barrel never cools and barrel mirage can be a PITA.

There has been numerous reports from people I know having feeding issues with their 7WSMs.

Recoil....80 to 100 round days...wears on you.

I personally think the 7 RUSM is a better choice if you step into short mags.

Ask Bolo aka Steve about his in 1000 F Class and BR.

rksimple
04-16-2008, 7:58 PM
If the 7rsaum were a bit more popular, it may be the king of the hill. I have heard of the same issues with feeding in the 7wsm, but I think George, and others, have worked that out. The rsaum is really not any easier on barrels, but it is a slightly more efficient cartridge. With barrel life in the 1200 range, I'd be going through barrels every 6 months or so with either. Makes me want to stick with 308...

Prc329
04-16-2008, 8:19 PM
I'm sticking with 308 but was thinking of adding a couple of other cartridges just for the hell of it. Good info guys.

Cypriss32
04-16-2008, 8:26 PM
This is why I DO NOT use my 7wsm's untill a match, and they feed fine if your gunsmith is used to making them.

wildcard
04-16-2008, 9:12 PM
This is why I DO NOT use my 7wsm's untill a match, and they feed fine if your gunsmith is used to making them.

GAP?

Cypriss32
04-16-2008, 10:03 PM
Randy is doing the final touches to my LSR 7wsm
GAP is gona do my extra one I have. I want to finish off the rock barrels I have sitting around here. Im almost done buying rifles till I get married. Im in need of 2 more scopes and ill have the 5 bad *** sinco!
30-06, 2x 7wsm, 308win, and 223.

Timberwolf
04-16-2008, 10:11 PM
All things considered I'd stick with the 308. The idea of having two rifles, one for practice and one for matches is plain foolish, you need to practice with what you compete with if you want to be competitive. That means burning powder which means you need longer barrel life unless you own a gunsmith shop and can readily change barrels mid season.

ar15barrels
04-16-2008, 10:54 PM
What would you use and why in a mag fed short action cartridge?

This question popped into my head after reading about this rifle

http://www.6mmbr.com/gunweek084.html


I just can't see the stated reasons as justifying a 6.5x47 over a 260.

10gr less powder is not going to make enough difference in barrel life or recoil to matter.
Necking up 243 Lapua brass to make 260 is not a problem either.
It's the ultimate quality of the barrel/chamber and ammo that's going to make a gun shoot little groups.

PUFF
04-17-2008, 8:25 PM
The 7 SAUM is a more efficient case than the WSM. Both shoot 180 Bergers at about 2950fps but the SAUM uses about 6 grains less. Alan Warner told me that even his 7/270 WSM didn't make it past a 1000 rounds of match barrel life. My first SAUM barrel has about 1500 rounds down the tube. Did a test with the 162 AMAXs for shootin critters with CamW. Still shoots in the high 2s and low 3s.
You can still get 300 SAUM brass easily and one pass through the 7 die and you'll have 7 SAUM.
Randall, I hate to differ with you. A 10 grain difference in powder will affect barrel life. It might depend on your accuracy standards. If my match rifles won't stay in the low 2s they become varmint barrels. Won't take a 6.5x284 tube to a big match with more than a 800 round count.
In tactical matches the recoil difference is too small to make a difference. But in BR or FClass you could free recoil the 6.5x47 easily but a 260 is a whole different story.

Steve

Cypriss32
04-17-2008, 8:31 PM
Steve is the Man!
When are we gona start shooting F-Class together?
Got some more bergers for me?

PUFF
04-17-2008, 8:46 PM
Got plenty of the 30 cal 210VLDs. Still got to count out those 7s I have.
When you use those 7s I got for you, calculate your BC for about .715. Shot them at Boulder City match and my 1K come up was 22 3/4. The tips are all pointed up. If you are patient I could point the tips on the30s also. [Might shoot the 600yd NBRSA Nationals] Pointing seems to increase the BC about .035 to .015 depending on bullet shape and caliber.

Vu 308
04-17-2008, 9:24 PM
Yo Puff.....

Forget 600yard nationals and shoot my match man. It's fun busting your balls on the line.

Vu

Jicko
04-17-2008, 9:38 PM
How much would it cost me to change out my 700PSS .308 barrel?

And who can do that? (who is a good person to do that)

What's the expected round count in a .308 barrel?

Cypriss32
04-17-2008, 9:38 PM
Im game Steve Ill come down and go threw the reloading stuff with you a little. I need to work on my consistency and learn some elite reloading techniques for the elitest.

Timberwolf
04-17-2008, 9:49 PM
Im game Steve Ill come down and go threw the reloading stuff with you a little. I need to work on my consistency and learn some elite reloading techniques for the elitest.

Why load it if your not going to shoot it :D

Cypriss32
04-17-2008, 9:50 PM
Enlighten me....

Timberwolf
04-17-2008, 9:54 PM
By the way Steve I'm putting the final specs on a rifle to give Puff a run for its money - pre 64 M70 in a opened std stock, Med Varmit contour Schnieder 1:10 in 30-06 topped with a 2" J Unertl target scope - old school baby - est comp is late fall - just in time for next year

Timberwolf
04-17-2008, 9:54 PM
Enlighten me....

care to divulge you monthly round count

wildcard
04-17-2008, 10:04 PM
How much would it cost me to change out my 700PSS .308 barrel?

And who can do that? (who is a good person to do that)

What's the expected round count in a .308 barrel?

Just looking to change out the barrel or does the chamber need to be cut too? Which gunsmith and how much $$$ will depend on that answer.

5K is the general rule of thumb for .308 barrel life.

Cypriss32
04-17-2008, 10:06 PM
Last month
175 30-06
340 223

Jicko
04-17-2008, 11:23 PM
Just looking to change out the barrel or does the chamber need to be cut too? Which gunsmith and how much $$$ will depend on that answer.

5K is the general rule of thumb for .308 barrel life.

I thought that the barrel and the chamber is a complete unit...

I think, I would want both, since I seemed to have a large/loose chamber + huge long throat...

Who is a good one yet affordable? (reasonable)

Spdjunkie
04-18-2008, 2:55 AM
I thought that the barrel and the chamber is a complete unit...

I think, I would want both, since I seemed to have a large/loose chamber + huge long throat...

Who is a good one yet affordable? (reasonable)

Yes, The chamber is a section/part of the barrel.

IMHO-You can:

a) Turn back the barrel and have it re chambered to a more "reasonable" headspace. R&D Precision has a "Maverick" Accuracy Package that might interest you. http://rdprecision.net/pricing.html

b) Have R&D Precision Re-Barrel the Rifle with a Brand New QUALITY SS Match Barrel; that will be chambered to tighter match specs/dimensions & TRUE THE ACTION/BOLT as well.

IMHO: Barrel(s): Bartlein, Kreiger, Scheider, etc. are GTG

Contact info:

Randy "HateCA" Cain
R&D Precision
http://rdprecision.net/contact.html

Phone: (626) 806-4389
Email: rdprecision@roadrunner.com

Hope this helps, Good luck. Have a great one.

Fjold
04-18-2008, 6:12 AM
The chamber is cut in to the barrel blank

Prc329
04-18-2008, 6:33 AM
Go with a rock barrel. I am more then pleased with mine and most people I have talked to say they are the fastest barrels they have shot. My 175g load gained almost 100fps in the new barrel verse the factory barrel. Pete is flinging the 168s at 2800 FPS out of a rock.

PistolPete75
04-18-2008, 7:13 AM
I also suggest going with Randy at R+D. However, I hear he is no longer accepting anymore projects for the year. If this is the case, you can pm me for rebarreling work. The chamber is the same as Randy's, and will be performed by Joe Hernandez. If anyone is willing to wait till June for the work to be completed, I have an extra Rock Barrel M24 countour 1:11.25 blank coming in. $425 for chambered and threaded barrel, not including recoil lug or trued action for that 1 rock barrel, if not cost of barrel plus $150 for the the work. $50 extra for installing muzzle brake except the Badger FTE brake which is slightly more. $300 for trued action and bolt knob. $80 for installed Custom Tactical Bolt Knob. All work will be completed same day turn around time, but you have to take a drive down to Lancaster to get it done, and drink a few beers on us while you wait. Tolerances held to .0005 inche. 1/2moa garanty with FGMM. Work is done on .308 barrels and Remington Short Actions only. No finish work is available.

Prc329
04-18-2008, 7:23 AM
Joe does good work. :D

Timberwolf
04-18-2008, 7:53 AM
Last month
175 30-06
340 223

223 don't count - only bolt gun

wildcard
04-18-2008, 7:58 AM
My round count has dropped down to near 0 in the past months. I need to get back into it.

rksimple
04-18-2008, 9:07 AM
How much would it cost me to change out my 700PSS .308 barrel?

And who can do that? (who is a good person to do that)

What's the expected round count in a .308 barrel?

With a decent barrel and a moderate load, you should get 8k rounds no problem and still hold MOA.

Prc329
04-18-2008, 9:23 AM
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't it that with barrel wear you are basically chasing throat erosion? So when someone says they "shot out a barrel" aren't they actually just eroding the throat to where it is not useful anymore? In that case couldn't that 8000 round barrel just be re-chambered and shoot like new again?

rksimple
04-18-2008, 9:27 AM
Correct me if I am wrong but isn't it that with barrel wear you are basically chasing throat erosion? So when someone says they "shot out a barrel" aren't they actually just eroding the throat to where it is not useful anymore? In that case couldn't that 8000 round barrel just be re-chambered and shoot like new again?

You could cut it and push the chamber forward, but muzzle wear is another concern. Some have chopped an inch off the muzzle end too at the same time. Normally its done with calibers that burn up barrels quickly. After 8k rounds, I'd think that the rest of the barrel is starting to get hammered too.

Mute
04-18-2008, 11:46 AM
In a short action, I'd go .260 or 6.5 Creedmore probably, assuming competition or similar applications for distances that are predominantly longer than 900 yards. No reason, for me at least, to go with anything else. If I really needed the extra power, I'd just move on up to a long action cartridge. Of course I'm perfectly happy with .308 as being the most versatile.

Prc329
04-18-2008, 11:50 AM
That is one thing I always find interesting. You always hear talk about all these wiz bang cartridges that are so much better then 308 but everyone seems to stick with the good old gal. The rifles are pretty interesting to read about.

Cypriss32
04-18-2008, 2:46 PM
Im a little busy at the moment, this fat lard *** is getting back to the Gym. GOtta find a wife.... Its tough comptition out there these days. Plus the LAPD acadimy is coming up fast, hopefully 6 months and im in. Just waiting to be of age.
Taking test soon.

Jicko
04-18-2008, 2:56 PM
b) Have R&D Precision Re-Barrel the Rifle with a Brand New QUALITY SS Match Barrel; that will be chambered to tighter match specs/dimensions & TRUE THE ACTION/BOLT as well.


How much is this gonna cost me? Just an estimate?

And how does "rock" barrel compares with "Kreiger, Scheider"?

I basically want an estimate... and see if it is "worthy" to upgrade my gun.

I still need someone to shoot my rifle and tell me if it is actually "not" accurate...

Fjold
04-18-2008, 3:10 PM
My smith up here charged $150 to chamber, crown, thread and mount a barrel if he had the reamer already for that cartridge. He also charged $150 to true the action and bolt.

Mike Rock's barrels are the equal of Krieger and Schneider and some of the top barrels that you can buy, IMHO

And I don't even own one (yet) but I do own Krieger, Shilen and PacNor.

Mute
04-18-2008, 3:27 PM
How much is this gonna cost me? Just an estimate?

And how does "rock" barrel compares with "Kreiger, Scheider"?

I basically want an estimate... and see if it is "worthy" to upgrade my gun.

I still need someone to shoot my rifle and tell me if it is actually "not" accurate...

- Cost depends on who does the job.
- Rock is as good as Kreiger, Scheider or any of the top custom barrel makers.
- Should contact the smith about the estimate and the "worthiness."
- The truing and such isn't just for accuracy but also to ensure that after numerous rounds and maybe some rough treatment of the rifle, it will continue to be consistently accurate. At a range, under controlled conditions, the differences may not be apparent from an accuracy point of view.

ar15barrels
04-18-2008, 6:44 PM
Randall, I hate to differ with you. A 10 grain difference in powder will affect barrel life. It might depend on your accuracy standards.

Don't hate to differ with me, I might learn something. ;)

So I have this bull barreled 243 700 in a McMillan stock that I got at turners pasadena...
What should I do with it? :confused:

ar15barrels
04-18-2008, 6:48 PM
In that case couldn't that 8000 round barrel just be re-chambered and shoot like new again?

Yes.

ar15barrels
04-18-2008, 6:49 PM
You could cut it and push the chamber forward, but muzzle wear is another concern. Some have chopped an inch off the muzzle end too at the same time. Normally its done with calibers that burn up barrels quickly.

Muzzle wear beyond a simple re-crown is all going to be from cleaning rod damage.

Prc329
04-18-2008, 7:35 PM
Don't hate to differ with me, I might learn something. ;)

So I have this bull barreled 243 700 in a McMillan stock that I got at turners pasadena...
What should I do with it? :confused:

Let me take it off your hands ;)

ar15barrels
04-18-2008, 8:21 PM
Let me take it off your hands ;)

It was a question aimed specifically at Steve. ;)

Prc329
04-18-2008, 8:40 PM
Hey Randall, did you get my PM?

PUFF
04-18-2008, 9:17 PM
Randall, actualy the charge weight difference is only about 3 grains. Now heat is the main cause of throat erosion. More powder, same bore equals more heat. Also the longer heavier bullets cause more erosion. Shoot a 223 with 55s and one with 77s. The 223 shooting the 77s will burn out it's throat way before the one shooting the 55s. Long fast strings of fire will also wear the throat out faster.
Now us anal retentive BR shooters take an inch of the muzzle because the bore starts to fish mouth after awhile.[Heard it from Boots] That's okay for tactical but 100yd groups going from .2 to .35 is disasterous in LR BR.
Setting back a centerfire match barrel after 8000 rounds is a waste of time and money. The bore will be fire cracked and pitted 4 inches or more up from the throat.
Now customizing cost for a rifle goes up exponentialy as the accuracy requirements. Half inch rifle, about $400. Quarter minute rifle, about $1k. Sub .2s over $1k with alot of reloading costs.
Befor spending your hard earned dollars on a custom.Get a trigger job or a nice trigger. Learn how to reload. It will save you money on ammo so you can shoot more and practice. And in time you will make better ammo for your rig, than you could buy. I can get most of my factory Remmy's to shoot half inch or better with good reloads made for that rig.

Steve

PUFF
04-18-2008, 9:25 PM
Randall for your 243. Try some 95 grain SMKs with some H4350 behind them. Their pretty flat out to 600. About the best LR bullet for the factory Remmy twist.
CamW says nice things about you but now I know that your the guy who beat me to Turners for that 243. Had to buy another one and drop it into the extra A5 I had in the safe.

Vu 308
04-18-2008, 9:34 PM
BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH... .2 .3 and PUFF misses a 10" plate at 250yards.

come to the dark side steve..come shoot our match...

BR...F-Class ..you can do that in a few years when you retire.

ar15barrels
04-18-2008, 9:53 PM
CamW says nice things about you but now I know that your the guy who beat me to Turners for that 243.

:)

The barrel does not seem to be a factory barrel, no markings.
This looks to be an 70's-80's gun and the barrel is 23" which tells me it's probably been set back once.
Also there is a machined area (touchup blued) just over the chamber, probably done when re-chambering and re-threading, which does not match the high polish bluing of the barrel.
I have not checked the twist rate yet.

PUFF
04-18-2008, 9:59 PM
Going to get back to the original question and reply to T'Wolf.
I like the 6.5X47 for several reasons.
I can shoot the 130s at 2950.[pointed BC .625]
They fit in the mag with the VLDs and feed better.[Than the 308]
Barrel life slightly better than a 260
Way better than a 260 AI[Ask me how I KNOW!!!]
With the lighter bullet and less powder, I won't need a muzzle break to see my impacts.
Byyy the waaay T'Wolf, When I get done with my classes I'll get LULT [Luv U Long Time] built. Got all the parts. I'll be using a slightly different 6.5X47 at the 600yd NBRSA Nationals. If it works. I'll be shooting it in LULT.

PUFF
04-18-2008, 10:10 PM
Randall, I have an older varmint 243 also. Gotta keepa close eye on it though. Cause it hits critters like magic and it's the rifle that got our Chinese buddy hooked on critter shootin.
My older 243 likes the 70gr Ballistic Tips touching the lands with a max charge of 760 and Rem 9 1/2 primers. The older Rem 243s had a slower twist rate. So the 87gr VMAX is about the heaviest accurate bullet for it.

PUFF
04-18-2008, 10:22 PM
Vu, one day I'm gonna take you critter shootin. All targets are small and at different distances. Different angles and wind all day too. By the way, these targets move. Sometimes just when you break the shot. Forgot to mention that rarely you get a sighter, so alot of CBs.
Both Cam and I have my Jag Mag kits in a couple of rifles so if you have a hard time with the first 20 shots.:43: Will give you another mag.

ar15barrels
04-18-2008, 10:24 PM
Randall, I have an older varmint 243 also. Gotta keepa close eye on it though. Cause it hits critters like magic and it's the rifle that got our Chinese buddy hooked on critter shootin.
My older 243 likes the 70gr Ballistic Tips touching the lands with a max charge of 760 and Rem 9 1/2 primers. The older Rem 243s had a slower twist rate. So the 87gr VMAX is about the heaviest accurate bullet for it.

I was guessing that this would end up to be a slower twist barrel due to the age of the build.
It seems that twist rate trends have gotten faster with time as longer bullets have become more popular.
I have a bunch of lightweight 6mm bullets from my tight neck 6mm project which I built on a re-chambered 13 twist hart BR take-off barrel.

You guys need to bring me along critter shooting sometime.

PistolPete75
04-19-2008, 7:30 AM
How much is this gonna cost me? Just an estimate?

And how does "rock" barrel compares with "Kreiger, Scheider"?

I basically want an estimate... and see if it is "worthy" to upgrade my gun.

I still need someone to shoot my rifle and tell me if it is actually "not" accurate...

maverick package from R+D is $550. from what your groups were for your load test you put out with the br2, 210m, etc your rifle is shooting well for a stock 700p. accurizing your rifle will give you about a 1/2 moa rifle.

PistolPete75
04-19-2008, 7:32 AM
for varmint shooting, a cheap but descent .223 with a 55grainer is just perfect.

PUFF
04-19-2008, 7:28 PM
Make sure your Descent 223 shoots sub 1/2 MOA. A squirrel's head is all you see quite often. That's a 1inch to 2 inch oval. 50 grain bullets have a better splat factor and hold the wind pretty well for the 223s range.
When Cam and I go, we take at least 3 rifles each. Usually 4 or 5.

17 HMR- Short medium range and walk around rifle.
22lr- Walk around targets of opportunity.
223- Usually 2 rifles for short to medium range.
243/6AI etc.- For medium to long range.
6.5X284/7SAUM- For long range.

I would think twice about critter shootin. If'n ya get hooked. It's a gonna get real expensive!!!!

Cypriss32
04-19-2008, 7:40 PM
7SAUM.......

Steve i got that extra M70 action and a Rock 1-8.7tw 7SAUM or 7wsm?
Its GOTTA feed from AICS mags modified to use WSM cartridges.

PUFF
04-19-2008, 7:51 PM
The SAUM is the more efficient cartridge. I get 2980 with the 180s from a 1 in 9 twist 28 inch Kreiger. Don't think you could push them much faster in the WSM. All the versions of the 7 on the WSM case have not made it past 1k rounds of match accuracy barrel life. I switched my first one to a repeater with the HS DBM. Feeds the 162 AMAX's and the 175 SMK's slicker than schnot. You will have to single feed the VLDs.
By the way, I have a bunch of 180 JLKs I'm not using anymore. Interested?

Cypriss32
04-19-2008, 8:07 PM
Yes hit me up...............

ar15barrels
04-19-2008, 8:08 PM
All the versions of the 7 on the WSM case have not made it past 1k rounds of match accuracy barrel life.

How about the 6.5x284's?

Cypriss32
04-19-2008, 8:12 PM
7 triupts them!

Prc329
04-19-2008, 8:28 PM
How about the 6.5x284's?

Barrel life is a key issue for 6.5-284 shooters, because barrels can loose their accuracy edge in as little as 800 rounds, though 1000 rounds is more typical. But don't throw away that barrel merely because the groups start opening up. Sometimes some aggressive throat polishing can restore much of the accuracy, and you can get hundreds more rounds of useful life by having the barrel set back.John Hoover reports: "I've had many barrels set back 1". Nearly always they shoot as well or better than before."

http://www.6mmbr.com/SixFive284.html

PUFF
04-19-2008, 8:38 PM
Ya gotta set a 6.5X284 barrel back before it goes. Usually about the magical 800 round count. Seen 6.5X284s last up to 1300 rounds. Now setting a barrel back costs the same as chambering. My smith charges $250 plus the shipping and insurance. Rather get a new tube and use the old one for critters until it's a tomato stake.

Cypriss32
04-19-2008, 9:08 PM
Steve you using 6.5x47L yet? The use of RL15 seems like a win/win situation!

ar15barrels
04-19-2008, 9:26 PM
7 triupts them!

So how much powder do each burn and at what pressures?

Cypriss32
04-19-2008, 9:36 PM
Im running 62.5grs H4831SCC 180gr VLDS @ 2840fps 25" rock barrel.

ar15barrels
04-19-2008, 9:51 PM
Im running 62.5grs H4831SCC 180gr VLDS @ 2840fps 25" rock barrel.

This does not help without similar 6.5 data for comparison. ;)

Cypriss32
04-19-2008, 9:53 PM
Wait for steve! I dont have info on 6.5-284, I feel no need to own one. Anyone that can do a 7wsm will do better for my needs. Only 6.5mm im semi tempted to do is a 6.5x47L!

PUFF
04-19-2008, 10:23 PM
Most use about 67 to 68 grains of R 25 in the 7 WSM. I use 62.3 in my SAUM.[Right near max]
You can put as much H4350 with the 123s into a 6.5X47 [about 42 grains]and never reach max pressures. My match load is around 39 grains of R15 with the 130s.
I use about 49 to 51 grains of H4350 in my 6.5X284[depending on barrel] with the 140s.

rksimple
04-20-2008, 7:55 AM
Going to get back to the original question and reply to T'Wolf.
I like the 6.5X47 for several reasons.
I can shoot the 130s at 2950.[pointed BC .625]
They fit in the mag with the VLDs and feed better.[Than the 308]
Barrel life slightly better than a 260
Way better than a 260 AI[Ask me how I KNOW!!!]
With the lighter bullet and less powder, I won't need a muzzle break to see my impacts.


Is this with your Rl15 load and what barrel length (maybe I missed it somewhere)? What do you expect for .5 moa barrel life? Do you jam the 130's and how much? Does it feed well enough jammed as to run the bolt quickly in a tac match? Do you turn necks on the Lapua brass? Ever tried the 139's? If so, whats velocity usually run for you? Is the Whidden pointing die the only one out there?

Sorry for so many questions. The 6.5x47 seems like a dang good all around caliber. The short barrel life on the 7wsm has me scared. I went through 200 rounds just this weekend in my 308. I think building a surgeon switch barrel with a 308, 6.5x47, and maybe a 243 would be killer.

Cypriss32
04-20-2008, 9:12 AM
Sorry for so many questions.


You better be, take it slow.....

rksimple
04-20-2008, 9:30 AM
You better be, take it slow.....

Take it slow...c'mon now. Are you really one to say that? Mr. "I can't keep the same rifle for more than 3 months."

If I can get the performance that I want in a cartridge that will give me 3-4000 rounds of .5moa barrel life, I'm all for it. .625 BC at 2950 has piqued my interest.

Cypriss32
04-20-2008, 9:37 AM
Im just messing around, You left me open...... I guess I must put a JK at the end allways now?

Get the custom action and have george keep the specs on file and do the 7wsm. He can spin up barrels and send them, whenever.

rksimple
04-20-2008, 9:43 AM
Im just messing around, You left me open...... I guess I must put a JK at the end allways now?

Get the custom action and have george keep the specs on file and do the 7wsm. He can spin up barrels and send them, whenever.

This idea has been going through my mind as well. I'd just be spending quite a bit on barrels. I kind of like the idea of the low recoiling 6.5 and less powder. I'm not made of money like you are man.:D

Cypriss32
04-20-2008, 9:47 AM
Im not made of money I capitalized early in life.... So I have no life...
There is a snieder 7mm 1-9tw for sale on SH 29" blank for 250 and hes local!
You can cut that thing back 3-5x before trashing it ormaking a 7mm-08 20" gun.

Cypriss32
04-20-2008, 9:48 AM
Ryan your setup is more expensive then both of my Finished rifles, My 30-06 and my 7wsm WITH SCOPES!!!!

rksimple
04-20-2008, 1:21 PM
Ryan your setup is more expensive then both of my Finished rifles, My 30-06 and my 7wsm WITH SCOPES!!!!

Sheesh, just my scope is 3x what my entire savage with optics was. Buy once, cry once I guess. Oh well, its just money right?

Fjold
04-20-2008, 4:12 PM
For comparison, I load my 6.5x284 with the 142 grain SMK and 47.6 grains of H4350 to get 2889 fps out of my 26" Krieger barrel.

With my +2.6" at 100 yard zero, I need 24.2 minutes to be on at 1,000 yard
(89 degrees with 20% humidity at 1,000 ft elevation).

PUFF
04-20-2008, 8:21 PM
rksimple, my 6.5X47 is in a 28 inch 1in 8.5 twist. That 39 grain load is on the HOT side[us BR guys are always pushing the max]. I get a touch over 3k with the 130s jammed about .010. OAL is 2.710.
I only turn the necks to clean them up. I end up taking off about .0005 to .001 off. With a .005 to .010 jam it never leaves the bullet stuck in the throat with the leads cut in my chambers.Going to set my tac rifle with the same chamber with .002 neck clearance instead of .001.
Barrel life for .5 moa accuracy should be 2.5k plus. Experimenting with large primer pockets and other powders to increase efficiency and barrel life.
The Whidden bullet pointing die is not the only one but is the most available. Try and get a Pindell that isn't made anymore and expect to pay a premium. The pointing works for me. The 130s BC pointed work out to about .62. So if you push them to 2950, basicaly you just matched the 6.5X284 ballistics with the 142 SMK.
Never tried the 139s, but you probably could push them to 2850 with a safe load.

PUFF
04-20-2008, 8:35 PM
Fjold, ever try it on some LR field rats? Or should I say we ought to experiment some ballistic theory on some LR field rats!!! I know there is some cattle ranchland around Bakersfield. Know anybody?

Steve

rksimple
04-20-2008, 9:08 PM
Steve-thanks for the info. Seems like it has potential as a tac round. Who does your smithing?

My FIL has 640 acres out this way (close to Tehachapi). There are some critters to be had.

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/rksimple/DSCN4829.jpg

http://i17.photobucket.com/albums/b82/rksimple/Bobcat.jpg

Cypriss32
04-20-2008, 9:28 PM
Ryan lets go F some stuff up!

PUFF
04-20-2008, 10:23 PM
rksimple,
Greg Tannel at Gre-Tan Rifles. Won some fake wood with the first rifle he built for me in my first 1K BR match. Set the 1K base record at 29 Palms the second time out. He's been building mine ever since
If I don't do well at a match, it is because I didn't do my part at the loading bench or when I was pulling the trigger.
3 of my rifles just missed a World record. I'm just not quite up to the task yet. But I know my rifles are.
By the way, nice bobcat! Pain in the ***** if you bag one. If I remember correctly ya don't need a tag but ya got to keep the lower jaw with the pelt to be in legal possesion if ya take one. But if you got Bobcats, y'all got critters!!!!