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View Full Version : my lead free protest


jamesob
04-13-2008, 11:16 AM
this is my little way of getting back at the fish & game and wish everybody would do it. i have decided since they banned lead in hunting areas, i will no longer hunt, fish or buy any licence in the state of california. every year i have baught a licence and sometimes got a deer tag and never went hunting . so the f&g will no longer get any of my money. i can go hunting in other states and will be glad to give them my money. i think if every hunter, fisherman and sportsman would do this, it would put a financial hurt on the f&g. fisherman if you think your safe , your not. they will go after your sport next. everybody join me lol.

Ech0Sierra
04-13-2008, 11:18 AM
Lead fishing weights are next. You all are going to be using bismuth or tungsten.

dwtt
04-13-2008, 11:31 AM
this is my little way of getting back at the fish & game and wish everybody would do it. i have decided since they banned lead in hunting areas, i will no longer hunt, fish or buy any licence in the state of california.
Umm, isn't this exactly what the environuts wanted from the beginning? They used lead ammunition ban as a vehicle to stop hunting?

dustoff31
04-13-2008, 11:52 AM
Umm, isn't this exactly what the environuts wanted from the beginning? They used lead ammunition ban as a vehicle to stop hunting?

I see it as sort of a two edged sword. Certainly, whackos want to end hunting and probably fishing as well.

On the other hand, one of the few things that get the attention of politicians is loosing revenue. If they got letters from enough people telling them that they have just lost XX dollars this year and will continue to do so until they pull their heads out of their hind ends, it might help. Of course, they would have to see a corresponding drop in DFG revenues.

Nahuatl
04-13-2008, 1:30 PM
Far be it from me to tell you that you can't sit at home and refuse to hunt in protest. I won't be joining you but, I volunteer to hunt more in your place.

I live in the zone and shoot ~100 coyotes each year, most with a shotgun. I buy about 250 rounds of buckshot to get through a season. What was $1.40 per shell for lead is now $3.10 PER SHELL for tungsten hevi-shot. So my annual ammo bill just went from $350 to $775. I could have filled up 4 times at the gas station for the difference. Gasoline is still the biggest expense in hunting, not non-lead ammo.

And yes lead fishing weights are next. Lead wheel weights. Lead-acid car batteries. And the ban will be nationwide, if not world-wide, in the next decade.

bwiese
04-13-2008, 1:38 PM
On the other hand, one of the few things that get the attention of politicians is loosing revenue. If they got letters from enough people telling them that they have just lost XX dollars this year and will continue to do so until they pull their heads out of their hind ends, it might help. Of course, they would have to see a corresponding drop in DFG revenues.


The bureaucrats at DFG will keep their jobs regardless of revenue losses.
An attempt to mitigate losses will result actually in increased fees/tag costs , etc.

In addition DFG can't really do much - the lead ammo ban came down from externally-imposed legislation.

Furthermore, CA's a huge state and politicians won't notice those minor variations in revenue (minor in relation to most other forms, that is).

Bobula
04-13-2008, 1:39 PM
Why not a June 29th range day/ varmint round up to eliminate any extra lead ammo?

jamesob
04-13-2008, 4:43 PM
The bureaucrats at DFG will keep their jobs regardless of revenue losses.
An attempt to mitigate losses will result actually in increased fees/tag costs , etc.

In addition DFG can't really do much - the lead ammo ban came down from externally-imposed legislation.

Furthermore, CA's a huge state and politicians won't notice those minor variations in revenue (minor in relation to most other forms, that is).

your absolutly right about their jobs but some would loose their jobs. if they lost alot of money from the hunters, they would find it somewhere else.they would have to take funds from something else so the f&g people could keep their jobs or raise taxes. i could go without hunting in this state for a few years anyway. i think it would be a good chance for the deer and other game to re-populate and at the same time put a hurt on the finances of the f&g.

the fish and game commission is the one who adopted section 353 title14 ccr and therefore are the ones responsible for this. if they would have rejected this, it would have been dead. so i think they can suffer a bit.

tyrist
04-13-2008, 5:35 PM
Bow hunt....and buy more tags.

M. Sage
04-13-2008, 5:41 PM
Umm, isn't this exactly what the environuts wanted from the beginning? They used lead ammunition ban as a vehicle to stop hunting?

Only because they're idiotic enough not to realize what licensing fees go toward.

I agree with the OP. Time to give 'em what they want. I've been trying to get the time, money and energy up to do some hunting again, but haven't even taken hunter's ed out here (lost my MI hunter's ed card and licenses...), but after the lead ammo ban? I think I'll be looking to hunt in neighboring states that aren't out to screw me over instead.

bwiese
04-13-2008, 5:51 PM
[quote=jamesob;1135842]your absolutly right about their jobs but some would loose their jobs.[/quote

Very very few if any would lose their jobs. It's almost impossible to fire a gov't employee - even when funds are low.

Also these agencies may be able to get some of their $$ from general fund, who knows.

RRangel
04-13-2008, 5:59 PM
If you really want to do something useful you would introduce more people to the sport, and help keep hunting popular. Bans like this provide a hurdle to the sport that already has a decreasing number of people participating every year. Contrary to the lies of moonbats, less hunters is not good for conservation efforts, or the sport.

socalguns
04-13-2008, 8:21 PM
Lead fishing weights are next. You all are going to be using bismuth or tungsten.

lead fishing weights were FIRST
sure its not all lakes/streams ... but they'll give you replacements (zinc and/or nickel i think)

NRAhighpowershooter
04-13-2008, 10:07 PM
The quarry lakes in Fremont are an examle of lead weights restrictions.. they WILL however exchange a few of your lead weights for steel weights at the entrance.....

cbn620
04-14-2008, 1:30 AM
I say spray paint your lead ammo silver and keep hunting with it. Power to the people.

petey
04-14-2008, 7:28 AM
I take the opposite approach. I buy a hunting and a fishing license regardless of whether I'll get a chance to use them (though I usually do). The salary for a game warden is paid for entirely by the sale of hunting and fishing licenses. Beginning salary for a game warden is about $38,000. There are less than 200 wardens available to cover the entire state, including out to 200 miles at sea.

The game wardens are not the problem. The problem lies with the political appointees on the Fish $ Game commission.

Take a look here, and download the expose:
http://www.californiafishandgamewardens.com/

mvpatriot
04-14-2008, 9:52 AM
I say spray paint your lead ammo silver and keep hunting with it. Power to the people.

+1 thats funny!

packnrat
04-14-2008, 1:17 PM
ok how about letting the rest of in on the joke?

i know that bullets get painted pending on what it is, but what is silver?

or just a vampire poke?:eek:

oops: not vampires, it is werewolves


:TFH:


.

chris
04-14-2008, 2:32 PM
if you look at the the stupid law that passed and read this section it only affects A zone south.

SEC. 3. Section 3004.5 is added to the Fish and Game Code, to read:
3004.5. (a) Nonlead centerfire rifle and pistol ammunition, as determined
by the commission, shall be required when taking big game with rifle or
pistol, as defined by Section 350 of the department’s mammal hunting
regulations, and when taking coyote, within the department’s deer hunting
zone A South, but excluding Santa Cruz, Alameda, Contra Costa, San Mateo,
and San Joaquin Counties, areas west of Highway 101 within Santa Clara
County, and areas between Highway 5 and Highway 99 within Stanislaus,
Merced, Madera, Fresno, Kings, Tulare, and Kern Counties, and within deer
hunting zones D7, D8, D9, D10, D11, and D13.
(b) By July 1, 2008, the commission shall establish, by regulation, a
public process to certify centerfire rifle and pistol ammunition as nonlead
ammunition, and shall define, by regulation, nonlead ammunition as
including only centerfire rifle and pistol ammunition in which there is no
lead content. The commission shall establish and annually update a list of
certified centerfire rifle and pistol ammunition.
(c) (1) To the extent that funding is available, the commission shall
establish a process that will provide hunters within the department’s deer
hunting zone A South, but excluding Santa Cruz, Alameda, Contra Costa,
San Mateo, and San Joaquin Counties, areas west of Highway 101 within
Santa Clara County, and areas between Highway 5 and Highway 99 within
Stanislaus, Merced, Madera, Fresno, Kings, Tulare, and Kern Counties, and
within deer hunting zones D7, D8, D9, D10, D11, and D13 with nonlead
ammunition at no or reduced charge. The process shall provide that the offer
for nonlead ammunition at no or reduced charge may be redeemed through
a coupon sent to a permitholder with the appropriate permit tag. If available
funding is not sufficient to provide nonlead ammunition at no charge, the
commission shall set the value of the reduced charge coupon at the maximum
value possible through available funding, up to the average cost within this
state for nonlead ammunition, as determined by the commission.

this is just part of it. if i read this right there is only a small section that is affected. Nosler is the only company right now that has submitted it's app for non lead ammo. barnes has not as of yet. most of the ammunition companies are in the R&D phase of this.

easy
04-14-2008, 7:39 PM
chris, I think yo need to read the entire reg on that. Look at page two(2) of the following link and see just what areas are affected by this B.S.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/docs/LeadInformation.pdf

aplinker
04-14-2008, 8:52 PM
I'm making my bullets out of mercury filled steel now.

jamesob
04-14-2008, 10:33 PM
if you look at the the stupid law that passed and read this section it only affects A zone south.



this is just part of it. if i read this right there is only a small section that is affected. Nosler is the only company right now that has submitted it's app for non lead ammo. barnes has not as of yet. most of the ammunition companies are in the R&D phase of this.
have you actually seen the map of the affected area? its pretty much from oregon to mexico east of interstate 99. seems like a big chunk of land to me, but im just a countryboy from a hick town. not much of an education but i do know how to look at a map.

nhanson
04-15-2008, 7:35 PM
I was out at 5 dogs about a week ago and behold.....a California Condor was over flying the shooting range (with lots of lead flying around!) Impressive bird to see in air! Wasn't affected by much of anything.

Has nothing to do with the lead ban, I was just surprised to actually see one of the 20 or 30 birds surviving the wild over this desolate range. So, they do exist and I still can't understand how this "lead ban" is helping such a picky eater!

11Z50
04-15-2008, 7:58 PM
I agree on paying no more of my money to DFG in any way. If thousands did so, you can bet they would pay attention. I don't care if they don't notice. I'm doing it anyway.

I have bought a hunting and fishing license every year since I was 14. Some years I wasn't even living in this state. (I'm 50 now) Due to this lead ammo ban nonsense, I'm not spending any money on anything that involves DFG. If I want to kill game or catch fish, I'll do it in another state.

I will, however, continue to blast away at targets, with lead ammo. I intend to shoot mucho lead into the dirt of California as often as possible. I'm also going to buy all the lead ammo I can afford, and when I'm dead, I'll bequeath all my guns and ammo to my kids, provided they never spend a penny on DFG, and promise to continue to pump lead into the dirt of our lovely land of the California Condor.

dexter9659
04-15-2008, 9:00 PM
Start using bullets made of tin-132, Nickel-63, and a Tungsten 181 core, that should make lead look like a godsend to the environmentalists.

Rob454
04-15-2008, 10:38 PM
I think eventually the copper ammo will come down in price. its expensive now because its new. But waterfowl can only be hunted with steel ammo so I dont really forsee this as a huge deal. I mean seriously how many rounds do you guys shoot when you go deer hunting? Most of the time I only go through maybe 3 rounds and thats counting high. if you do coyote ok I can see youre using up more rounds but how many do you take in a day and do you go every day? Probably not. if you do target shooting ( which probably the majority do) you can shoot regular lead bullets.

johnny_22
04-16-2008, 8:35 AM
"A more reliable method of detecting residue from lead-free gunshot ammunition has been developed. It could prove crucial to CSI teams worldwide as this "greener" type of ammunition become more commonplace, researchers say."

http://technology.newscientist.com/channel/tech/forensic-science/dn13622-gunshot-residue-test-fingers-leadfree-bullets.html

Even use the example of detecting hunters not using Pb-free ammo in the article.

chris
04-16-2008, 12:57 PM
chris, I think yo need to read the entire reg on that. Look at page two(2) of the following link and see just what areas are affected by this B.S.

http://www.dfg.ca.gov/wildlife/hunting/condor/docs/LeadInformation.pdf

yep i read it and replied to it in the other thread regarding it. but i believe it is a contradiction since IMO they have gone beyond legislative intent and therefore gone beyond the letter of the law they passed with help from CPRA and GOC. thanks jacka**es for helping the anti's get one more step closer to banning everything in this state.