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View Full Version : sks using detachable 10 round mags legal??


Rac97crawford
04-10-2008, 2:20 PM
if my russian sks meets all the 922r stuff and has none of the 5 "evils" on it, Can I leave the fixed mag out and use detachable 10 rounders?

I have a M1a that is legal with detachable 10rounders. So that got me thinking why not my sks as well. And I know I could just use stripper clips but if I put a scope on it then I'll be left with hand loading..

Any help would be great? And for all you russian buffs. I'm not planning on drilling, taping, cutting, or threading any part on the rifle. Everything will be reversible so you don't have to fear for a nice russian getting bubbaized.

Thanks

townbound
04-10-2008, 2:30 PM
Detachable Mags in an "SKS" rifle in CA no no. It will become an Assault Weapon in California, even if you use a 5 round detachable mag.

Harrison_Bergeron
04-10-2008, 2:51 PM
Detachable Mags in an "SKS" rifle in CA no no. It will become an Assault Weapon in California, even if you use a 5 round detachable mag.

That only applies to the Norinco. The M59/66 is just like any other rifle under SB23.

Rac97crawford
04-10-2008, 2:55 PM
So then if I go out and get a yugo m59/66, which of course "isn't" an "sks" Then I could use detachable 10 rounders. Yes???

Josh3239
04-10-2008, 3:03 PM
A Yugo m59 is a Yugo m59. The way I understand it is if it says SKS on your receiver you MUST use 10rd or 5rd fixed magazines. If it looks like an SKS, fires like an SKS but doesn't say SKS on the receiver it isn't an SKS, in which case detachable magazines are legal.

Comparing the M1A to the SKS doesn't work because the SKS with detachable magazines is specifically listed as an AW, the M1A has no such legislation.

ohsmily
04-10-2008, 3:05 PM
If it isn't an SKS, for example, Yugoslavian "SKS"s are not SKSs, you may use detachable magazines as long as the rifle doesn't have any evil features. You may also have to contend with 922(r).

If you own 30 round detachable SKS mags (the duckbill mags) you may use them in your non-SKS rifle as long as there are no evil features.

Shane916
04-10-2008, 3:09 PM
Set aside some money for a legal fund as well :)

townbound
04-10-2008, 3:18 PM
I wouldn't risk it.

Harrison_Bergeron
04-10-2008, 3:25 PM
I wouldn't risk it.

Didn't you just buy a Saiga?

townbound
04-10-2008, 3:44 PM
Didn't you just buy a Saiga?

Sure did, and I have an SKS too. I've been down this path before with the SKS (I own a 37rd. SKS Detachable mag that I can't use and a 20 rd. fixed mag that I can't use) and I wouldn't risk that. The Saiga rifle comes standard with detachable Mags.

Gator Monroe
04-10-2008, 3:47 PM
Where does 922r fit into an M59/66A1 if you do not wish to use any Tapco Product ? Mine has a D.C. Enginering 20 ROUND mag (USA PRE-2000) and a Rockloc M6 muzzlebrake (USA) would a Murrays FP setup, and an american made steel heat shield/gas tube, and mojo or other front & rear sight acessory put me into 922r compliance ????

Harrison_Bergeron
04-10-2008, 3:51 PM
Your Saiga is just as questionable, if not moreso than an M59 with a detachable mag when it comes to explaining why it is off list. Yours is made in the same factory as the one that is banned, his is made in a different country.

Crazed_SS
04-10-2008, 3:54 PM
I have a M1a that is legal with detachable 10rounders. So that got me thinking why not my sks as well.
Thanks

Because.. http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12275.php

12276. As used in this chapter, "assault weapon" shall mean the following designated semiautomatic firearms:
(a) All of the following specified rifles:
(1) All AK series including, but not limited to, the models identified as follows:
(A) Made in China AK, AKM, AKS, AK47, AK47S, 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(B) Norinco 56, 56S, 84S, and 86S.
(C) Poly Technologies AKS and AK47.
(D) MAADI AK47 and ARM.
....
....
....
(11) SKS with detachable magazine.
(12) SIG AMT, PE-57, SG 550, and SG 551.
(13) Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48.
.....
....
....

Gator Monroe
04-10-2008, 3:57 PM
M59/66A1 with Detachable Magazine ( not on list then) how many USA compliance parts needed to stay 922r kosher ?????

Crazed_SS
04-10-2008, 4:01 PM
Sure did, and I have an SKS too. I've been down this path before with the SKS (I own a 37rd. SKS Detachable mag that I can't use and a 20 rd. fixed mag that I can't use) and I wouldn't risk that. The Saiga rifle comes standard with detachable Mags.

The Saiga on the list on identical to the Saigas people are buying.. made in the same factory even. If you're comfortable playing the name game with the Saiga, I dont see why you'd be apprehensive about putting a detachable mag on a M59/66..

Full Clip
04-10-2008, 4:02 PM
There are numerous other threads on 922r and the SKS-type rifle.
Search is your friend.

Rac97crawford
04-10-2008, 4:09 PM
If it isn't an SKS, for example, Yugoslavian "SKS"s are not SKSs, you may use detachable magazines as long as the rifle doesn't have any evil features. You may also have to contend with 922(r).

If you own 30 round detachable SKS mags (the duckbill mags) you may use them in your non-SKS rifle as long as there are no evil features.

Wait, so if I have a yugo, I can use 30 round detachable??? (If the answer yes then I am aware that I would be walking a very VERY fine line of legality and I should definintly put some money aside then.)

And if the answer is yes, then I assume the 30's much be pre-ban? Cause I know you can even bring 20 and 30 into the state now.

Gator Monroe
04-10-2008, 4:10 PM
There are numerous other threads on 922r and the SKS-type rifle.
Search is your friend.

But I want information that excludes any Tapco products (And this would come from buyers of said products)

Rac97crawford
04-10-2008, 4:25 PM
But I want information that excludes any Tapco products (And this would come from buyers of said products)

Hey Gator, Here's some good info along the lines you're looking for. It's tapco stuff, but I don't think there is anything wrong with tapco. I haven't heard anyone complain about anything tapco. If you're bias then I'd like to know why so I'll know to be careful.
Here's the list someone gave me in another post. In that post I had an operating rod problem. so disregard that stuff.

The operating rod is the piece that was poking out. Tapco sells replacements, but they're not worth it because apparently the BATFE does not consider the SKS operating rod a 'part' that counts for or against you for 922(r) purposes. Basically, if a gun is approved as a Curio and Relic, you do not have to worry about importing it. Pretty much all SKS's are C&R, so they are fine to import in their original condition. Key words being, original condition. If you modify it then it will have to confirm to 922(r). 922(r) says that it cannot have more than 10 imported "parts", the parts being defined from a certain list. An ordinary SKS will have 15 "parts", a Yugo will have 16 (because of the grenade launcher). So if you replace any of the parts, you will have to replace at least 5 or 6 with US-made parts. The stock and handguard count as 2 parts. If you use a Tapco 20-round magazine, that counts as 3 parts. A Tapco gas piston counts as 1 part. Etc. There are plenty of threads on the forum dealing with 922(r). One of them states that according to a letter from the BATFE, the operating rod does not count as a 922(r) part. So that's one less to worry about. FYI, here is the 922(r) parts list for my Yugo with a T-6 stock and handguard, a Tapco 20-round mag, and the barrel shortened so the grenade launcher (muzzle attachment) is gone:

FOREIGN:
1 Receiver
2 Barrel
3 Bolt
4 Bolt Carrier
5 Gas Piston
6 Trigger Housing
7 Trigger
8 Hammer
9 Sear
10 Disconnector

US MADE:
11 Butt Stock
12 Pistol Grip
13 Forearm Hand Guard
14 Magazine Body
15 Follower
16 Floor Plate

NOT APPLICABLE:
1 Barrel Extension
2 Mounting Block
3 Muzzle Attachments
4 Operating Rod

The SKS does not generally have a Barrel Extension, Mounting Block, or Operating Rod, according to the BATFE. The Yugo 59/66 has a Muzzle Attachment (the grenade launcher) so it has one more "part" than other SKS's. SKS's do not normally have pistol grips either, and the normal 10-round magazine is only composed of two parts: the Follower and the Magazine Body (floorplate is omitted). There are plenty of people who claim that 922(r) is not intended for individuals but for importers, and they claim that nobody has ever been prosecuted for 922(r) violations.


Getting the original wooden handguard off of the gas tube is a pain. There are two metal things holding either end of the handguard. The one towards the front of the tube has a little pin or rivet running through the bottom of it; this pin holds the metal piece on to the gas tube. You can knock out this pin with a punch if you're lucky, but mine was really stuck in there so I had to drill it out. Took forever.

ohsmily
04-10-2008, 4:36 PM
Wait, so if I have a yugo, I can use 30 round detachable??? (If the answer yes then I am aware that I would be walking a very VERY fine line of legality and I should definintly put some money aside then.)

And if the answer is yes, then I assume the 30's much be pre-ban? Cause I know you can even bring 20 and 30 into the state now.

My answer to you is that in California as of Jan 1, 2000, it is illegal to import, expose for sale, give, lend, (etc) a magazine that has a capacity greater than 10 rounds.

It is worth emphasizing that there is absolutely no rules governing possession of high capacity magazines or when/where or in what gun they may be used except with regard to fixed mags (can't fix a mag greater than 10 rounds).

Gator Monroe
04-10-2008, 5:26 PM
No problems with any Tapco Product (I just wish to use my D.C. mag and original wood furniture (Except for American made heat shield/upper handguard ) and my M59/66A1 had GL cut off prior to bringing it to California so parts count is variable ? plus USA made slant Brakes & such count as a part on AK's so my Rockloc M6 should also ? and do Mojo Sights or other american made Peep Sights or Fire Sights count also ? (I was banned from another Firearms forum for Dissen 922r (Saying Rimfires are Exempt especially here in California)

townbound
04-10-2008, 6:25 PM
The Saiga on the list on identical to the Saigas people are buying.. made in the same factory even. If you're comfortable playing the name game with the Saiga, I dont see why you'd be apprehensive about putting a detachable mag on a M59/66..

I have no issue with a detachable mag on an M59/66, as far as I know my Romanian "SKS" is not an M59/66. If I'm wrong please let me know and I'll happily use my detachable mag. As far as the name game is concerned, I think most of us here play that game. I have an OLL AR Type rifle and a Featureless Cobray M12 that I bought through PPT. I'm not here to cast any doubt, If I can read M59 on my SKS, I'll be a happy man.

townbound
04-10-2008, 6:26 PM
Your Saiga is just as questionable, if not moreso than an M59 with a detachable mag when it comes to explaining why it is off list. Yours is made in the same factory as the one that is banned, his is made in a different country.

See previous post.

Crazed_SS
04-10-2008, 6:42 PM
I have no issue with a detachable mag on an M59/66, as far as I know my Romanian "SKS" is not an M59/66. If I'm wrong please let me know and I'll happily use my detachable mag. As far as the name game is concerned, I think most of us here play that game. I have an OLL AR Type rifle and a Featureless Cobray M12 that I bought through PPT. I'm not here to cast any doubt, If I can read M59 on my SKS, I'll be a happy man.

I dunno, but I think the Romanian SKS might actually be a SKS ..

My M59/66 doesnt say SKS on it anywhere. It has the Century Arms laser-etching that says, "M59/66".. Still, I know it's a SKS. I bought it because I wanted a SKS. The receipt from Turners says, "Century YUGOSKSM5966" .. I think it's intellectually dishonest to claim a Yugo M59/66 isnt an SKS when it clearly is a SKS. I wouldnt argue it in court. Then again, Im a wuss.. I dont even have any off-list stuff.

.. Besides, it loads pretty quick and it's 100% reliable with stripper clips anyway.

Harrison_Bergeron
04-10-2008, 6:52 PM
How does Norinco fit in?

The Saigas are legal because they are Russian American Arms, Saiga (Insert Caliber), as opposed to Kalashnikov USA, Saiga. It is purely semantic the presence of the letters SKS should not be the issue.

Rac97crawford
04-10-2008, 7:18 PM
I dunno, but I think the Romanian SKS might actually be a SKS ..

My M59/66 doesnt say SKS on it anywhere. It has the Century Arms laser-etching that says, "M59/66".. Still, I know it's a SKS. I bought it because I wanted a SKS. The receipt from Turners says, "Century YUGOSKSM5966" .. I think it's intellectually dishonest to claim a Yugo M59/66 isnt an SKS when it clearly is a SKS. I wouldnt argue it in court. Then again, Im a wuss.. I dont even have any off-list stuff.

.. Besides, it loads pretty quick and it's 100% reliable with stripper clips anyway.

The only reason this really interests me is because I want to put a scope on it over the receiver. Then I'll need a shell deflector. Then I can no longer use stripper clips. everything is hand load after that.
And I'm trying to see if this little "want" I have is worth the risk. And right now it looks about 50/50.

Crazed_SS
04-10-2008, 7:23 PM
Kinda going off on a tangent here, but I've never had any luck with receiver mounts. I've tried them on two SKS's.. Well one SKS and one M59/66 :)

On both guns, the receiver mount is too wobbly to maintain a zero. I recently got this mount and it's rock solid. Still allows me to use stripper clips too.

http://scoutscopes.com/

http://i233.photobucket.com/albums/ee298/crazed1x/gats/IMG_2692.jpg

I dont know what kinda of scope you're mounting, but if it's a red-dot or long eye-relief deal, I highly reccomend that the scout scope mount..

JeffM
04-10-2008, 7:48 PM
Regardless of legality, detachable mags on an SKS are wrong. Period. Lear to use clips.

Also, if a Stag, CMMG, etc, are not considered among the banned class of "AR-15" rifles, then why would a Yugo M59 be considered a SKS?

What rifle exactly would be considered an SKS anyway? Is S the manufacturer and KS the rifle model? Honestly think the weapon listed in the law, as it is written, does not exist.

I however will not be challenging the law myself. See my first statement in this post.

Rac97crawford
04-10-2008, 7:54 PM
I know what you are taking about with the replacement dust/ receiver cover that has the weaver rails on the top. That's what I have now on my Russian. I read some reviews before that said the same thing you did. But I also read some where people had luck with it. So I thought I'd give one a try. I like my sights in the rear of the gun. So I was looking at drill and tap mounts. Here's some examples. The second one is the one I like the best and has had the best reviews. But I have to drill holes in the rifle to mount it. And I can't bear to do that to my Russian. So I was looking at a Chinese or yugo. An I just found out about this little loop hole with the yugo's. So now I'm hunting for info and feed back.
Here's the links to some much better mounting options.

http://www.kalinkaoptics.com/detail.aspx?ID=565

http://www.surplusrifle.com/reviews/choatesksscope/index.asp

leelaw
04-10-2008, 8:18 PM
That only applies to the Norinco. The M59/66 is just like any other rifle under SB23.

It excludes the M59/66 because that is a Simonov pattern rifle, and NOT an "SKS"

It's nic-pickey.

If it is an SKS, then it is illegal. If it is just a Simonov pattern rifle, then detachable magazines are OK.

cbn620
04-10-2008, 9:38 PM
Reading threads like these really reminds me just how screwed up everything is. This is a damned shame our laws have to be like this. Two rifles can be exactly the same, one's banned and one's not. One rifle can be legal, but add a few minor parts like--GASP-- a pistol grip, and all the sudden it's mega illegal.

And don't even get me started on 922. That's not even funny, that's just horribly and utterly disgusting.

Vacaville
01-09-2009, 5:44 PM
The only reason this really interests me is because I want to put a scope on it over the receiver. Then I'll need a shell deflector. Then I can no longer use stripper clips. everything is hand load after that.
And I'm trying to see if this little "want" I have is worth the risk. And right now it looks about 50/50.

I scoped my SKS using a receiver mount and I couldn't get it to hold a zero. Screwed around with it for months and finally went back to iron sights. If you really need a scope I'd try the scout mount that replaces the front sight.

JDay
01-09-2009, 11:45 PM
if my russian sks meets all the 922r stuff and has none of the 5 "evils" on it, Can I leave the fixed mag out and use detachable 10 rounders?

I have a M1a that is legal with detachable 10rounders. So that got me thinking why not my sks as well. And I know I could just use stripper clips but if I put a scope on it then I'll be left with hand loading..

Any help would be great? And for all you russian buffs. I'm not planning on drilling, taping, cutting, or threading any part on the rifle. Everything will be reversible so you don't have to fear for a nice russian getting bubbaized.

Thanks

Why? It only takes a second to load in a stripper clip. Besides the detachable magazines don't work as well as the fixed. Btw, scoping an SKS is blasphemy!

JDay
01-09-2009, 11:51 PM
Wait, so if I have a yugo, I can use 30 round detachable??? (If the answer yes then I am aware that I would be walking a very VERY fine line of legality and I should definintly put some money aside then.)

And if the answer is yes, then I assume the 30's much be pre-ban? Cause I know you can even bring 20 and 30 into the state now.

The rifle has to be listed by make and model on the AW list for it to be an AW unless its configured with "evil" features.

leelaw
01-10-2009, 12:48 AM
Stop posting admissions of ongoing commissions of felonies.

You know who you are.

grammaton76
01-10-2009, 5:02 PM
Gator, here's your 922(r) answer:

http://thegunwiki.com/Gunwiki/BuildSKSVerifyCompliance

I recently had a guy submit an interesting link - turns out you can now get a US-made trigger group for the SKS (3 parts). Link's on the page; I don't feel like digging it up to paste it here.