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View Full Version : Cal AWB rimfire exemptions and 922r


Gator Monroe
04-09-2008, 12:38 PM
Are our Draconian California AWB laws a hidden blessing for Rimfire owners (AKT-98/WASR 22/RPK22/GSG 5/ CZ.22's/ Chinese & Romanian & other european & oriental semi auto:rolleyes: trainers, Jaeger AP74 & M16 clones and their Armscor cousins including the AK22, because they shield us from 922r consideration

mymonkeyman
04-09-2008, 12:44 PM
Huh? No state law can shield you from federal law (except for very rare and non-applicable exceptions).

Hopi
04-09-2008, 12:48 PM
-922r and CA AW bans are unrelated. 922r refers to importation and possibly domestic manufacturing of firearms built with foreign parts.

-The CA AW bans are not a "blessing" any way you look at it, hidden or otherwise.

-What does the ":rolleyes:" imply in your post?

bwiese
04-09-2008, 12:49 PM
You are confusing Federal vs. state laws.

The AW ban is a California-only ban, and rimfires are exempt from 12276.1 restrictions ("SB23") if they are off-list.

There is no Federal 922(r) exemption for rimfires. Changing something to rimfire will not let you avoid the 10-or-less 'key foreign part' parts count game.

In general it's entirely possible to have something legal in CA but illegal Federally or vice versa. You have to play under BOTH sets of rules.

Hopi
04-09-2008, 12:52 PM
There is no Federal 922(r) exemption for rimfires. Changing something to rimfire will not let you avoid the 10-or-less 'key foreign part' parts count game.



You will correct me if I'm wrong, but guns like the GSG-5 (rimfire MP5 clone) seem exempt from the importation prohibition outlined in 922r, aren't rimfire rifles exempted under the 'sporting purposes' rule?

bwiese
04-09-2008, 12:54 PM
You will correct me if I'm wrong, but guns like the GSG-5 (rimfire MP5 clone) seem exempt from the importation prohibition outlined in 922r, aren't rimfire rifles exempted under the 'sporting purposes' rule?

Probably, but I'm guessing with specific ATF exemption.

I don't think just because you build up an AK with 100% foreign parts and drop in a 22 bbl liner that would get you outta 922(r).

Hopi
04-09-2008, 1:14 PM
Probably, but I'm guessing with specific ATF exemption.

I don't think just because you build up an AK with 100% foreign parts and drop in a 22 bbl liner that would get you outta 922(r).


The necessity for a specific ATF exemption is implied in the link below:
http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/newsletter/ffl3189-special.pdf

Lots of room for interpretation I guess...
http://www.atf.gov/pub/treas_pub/assault_rifles/backgrnd.pdf
[t]he difficulty of defining weapons characteristics to meet this target without discriminating against sporting quality firearms, was a major
reason why the Secretary of the Treasury has been given fairly broad
discretion in defining and administering the import prohibition.14

I still don't understand and can't find information as to why 922r applies to firearms built in the U.S. on domestically-produced receivers.
1. Parts are not firearms
2. Domestically-produced receivers are not imported.

bwiese
04-09-2008, 1:33 PM
I still don't understand and can't find information as to why 922r applies to firearms built in the U.S. on domestically-produced receivers.
1. Parts are not firearms
2. Domestically-produced receivers are not imported.


Well, for 922(r), it's the totality of parts involved. The receiver is just another part; this is essentially a case where "gun != receiver".

Just because you have a DSA FAL receiver does not mean your gun is not considered foreign made if it has a complete STG58 kit dropped on it with no compliance parts: it's still regarded as a foreign gun until you drop the key foreign parts count to 10 or less. The US receiver indeed can be one component that drops the foreign parts count down.

Gator Monroe
04-09-2008, 1:59 PM
Lets stay with fACTORY bUILT AND IMPORTED Rimfire Exclusivly here (Never mentiond "Converted or FAL or Centerfire other than they are definatly under 922R !

Gator Monroe
04-09-2008, 2:05 PM
-922r and CA AW bans are unrelated. 922r refers to importation and possibly domestic manufacturing of firearms built with foreign parts.

-The CA AW bans are not a "blessing" any way you look at it, hidden or otherwise.

-What does the ":rolleyes:" imply in your post?

I'm Implying that you can take a GSG-5 ,Jaeger AP74,AKT-98/WASR22/RPK22, Armscor AK22 or M16 clone.22 or any Eastern European .22 semi-auto or trainer and put as many European/Non USA parts on it as you wish in PRK ! (as long as Mag capacity does not excede 10 rounds)

Hopi
04-09-2008, 3:26 PM
Well, for 922(r), it's the totality of parts involved. The receiver is just another part; this is essentially a case where "gun != receiver".

Just because you have a DSA FAL receiver does not mean your gun is not considered foreign made if it has a complete STG58 kit dropped on it with no compliance parts: it's still regarded as a foreign gun until you drop the key foreign parts count to 10 or less. The US receiver indeed can be one component that drops the foreign parts count down.

Ok, I was missing the parts-count implications for building. Doh.

Hopi
04-09-2008, 3:38 PM
I'm Implying that you can take a GSG-5 ,Jaeger AP74,AKT-98/WASR22/RPK22, Armscor AK22 or M16 clone.22 or any Eastern European .22 semi-auto or trainer and put as many European/Non USA parts on it as you wish in PRK ! (as long as Mag capacity does not excede 10 rounds)

I don't think you understand sarcasm, or the associated smiley.

I'm with you on the mechanics of the .22 exemption w/regards to CA AW laws. I understand there are specific exemptions to 922r for 'sporting' rimfire rifles. However, your inclusion of ':rolleyes:' implies, wait for it....sarcasm.

What part of your OP was sarcastic? It seems like, along with your parenthesis and commas, that the :rolleyes: was just thrown in there randomly.

As posted above, there are demonstrable exemptions with specific rifles, but I can't find any ATF docs that outright exempt rimfires from the prohibition of importation. Where are you getting this idea?

Gator Monroe
04-09-2008, 4:42 PM
This Idea comes from other posters at other forums who think that 922r is applicable to Rimfires (Such as GSG 5,Jaeger AP74 and it's M16 clones and their Armscor cousins,WASR 22/AKT-98/RPK22 and various other Rimfires yet these weapons are Importable and and built with Imported Recievers therefore making them free from 922r restrictions (And I use that emoticon as a looking up and thinking about something kinda emoticon insted of sarcastic Emoticon and yes it was random and in no way supposed to emote sarcasm)

Hopi
04-09-2008, 6:28 PM
Oh....well the rifles that have been imported are obviously compliant or exempt, the ATF makes sure of that. The importers probably have written approval exempting the specific firearm, as I can't find ATF literature that exempts rimfire. If they are imported successfully, you can draw the conclusion that the firearms are either 922r compliant or 922r exempt.

What is your original question?:confused:

Peashooter
04-09-2008, 9:09 PM
The 922r pertains to the importable parts kits and assembled into a legal USA saleable item using less than 10 importable parts from the kit imported.

Once you change the usa made part as a whole makes it a non importable firearm and thus 922r is violated.

SB23 features do not pertain to .22lr Period.

mymonkeyman
04-09-2008, 11:10 PM
The 922r pertains to the importable parts kits and assembled into a legal USA saleable item using less than 10 importable parts from the kit imported.

Once you change the usa made part as a whole makes it a non importable firearm and thus 922r is violated.

SB23 features do not pertain to .22lr Period.

922r is only violated if there are more than 10 non us parts and the assembled firearm would be prohibited from being imported as not particularly suitable for sporting purposes under 925(a)(3). Of course, since the ATF says the sporting purposes test is decided on a case-by-case basis, there is no way to know what sporting purposes means under 922r (on the flip side it means that 922r may unenforceable because of the lack of notice). The ATF has named some things as banning criteria, but the answers typically vary every time you get a letter from BATF.